From my cold, dead hands.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » August 8, 2005, 7:24 pm

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp ... 1001010741

Man Kills Another in Dispute Over War, Press and Police Call It a First

By E&P Staff

Published: August 06, 2005 6:30 PM ET

NEW YORK It was bound to happen sooner or later, and in what newspapers in Kentucky are calling a first, one American has killed another in a dispute over the Iraq war.

It happened at Floyd County flea market on Thursday, when two friends, who were firearms vendors there, drew guns after quarreling about the war. Douglas Moore, 65, of Martin, who backs the war, shot and killed Harold Wayne Smith, 56, of Manchester, who opposed it, according to investigators.

Moore was released without being charged after he convinced police he had acted in self-defense. A grand jury may yet hear evidence in the case.

Commonwealth's Attorney Brent Turner said the episode might mark the first death in the U.S. due to a dispute over the war.

One witness, Sam Hamman of Prestonsburg, told the Lexington Herald-Leader, "Harold was talking about the 14 people that were killed in Iraq the other day and Doug said that just as many people were killed on the highways here.”

This quickly escalated into an argument, then to a scuffle, and finally both men drew pistols outside a snack shed. The dead man was apparently just a little slower in firing. Witnesses said he stood for about five seconds before toppling on the walkway.

In a telephone interview wit the Lexington paper yesterday, Moore said police had told him not to discuss his feelings about the Iraq war.

"I'm sorry this has happened," Moore, a retired railroad worker, said "but then what's done can't be undone." Moore told the Lexington reporter he thinks Smith and his family knew him well enough "to know what my thoughts are, his family does, because me and Harold was friends. That's all I'll say."

The daughter of the dead man said the two men were friends and had discussed Iraq before. She said her father "had different opinions than everybody. He felt it was wrong that all of these young people were losing their lives over what was going on. It was just a political disagreement, like a whole lot of people have."

I have really nothing to add other than: ahahahahah.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » August 8, 2005, 7:28 pm

This is almost too perfect, I don't know if I could possibly take another bite.

As if anything even needs to be said about this, every comical aspect of this tragedy is already self evident.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » August 8, 2005, 7:48 pm

Kampf Krieg!

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » August 9, 2005, 12:13 am

Well, GW finally succeeded in his ultimate goal of transforming the entire nation into Texas.

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » August 9, 2005, 1:07 am

While sad, this would of been funnier if the other guy won.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » August 9, 2005, 11:34 am

This guy talks like a redneck yoda...

"I'm sorry this has happened, but then what's done can't be undone."

"to know what my thoughts are, his family does, because me and Harold was friends. That's all I'll say."

Let me point out what's wrong with this picture.

1- These 2 guys are selling guns in a flea market.
2 -These 2 guys, as proven above, show an extreme lack of good judgment.
3- These weapons are not locked behind some sort of protective/locked casing.
4- These guns (or some guns) are actually loaded.

I highly doubt that they each took the time to pick out a gun, load it then proceed to attempt to shoot each other in the heat of the moment.

Such a sheer amount of stupidity boggles the mind...

Sylvos · Post by **Sylvos** » August 9, 2005, 11:41 am

its kentucky, who the fuck cares?
go fuck a caribou you fucking wanker

AND

You have two old men, obviously not too bright killing each other.
Process of Natural Selection at work.
Why try to fight evolution, let nature take its course.

AND

What is the point of having concealed and carry laws if you want them all locked up and "safe". A gun is not meant to be Safe, it is meant to be pointed, aimed and shot. The lethal force of the bullet is meant to take life.
That is the point of a gun, to kill. How you kill makes the difference, you can use it to defend yourself or you can use it for attacking. Attacking, obviously is wrong and there should be stronger legislature in place to penalize even further for killing someone with a gun. Death Penalty comes to mind, Death Penalty and Execution within 6 months of imprisonment. I'm sick to death of the arugement that guns need to be outlawed. "OK OUTLAW ALL GUNS, REMOVE ALL GUNS, LETS GO BACK TO KILLING EACH OTHER WITH KNIVES AND BOWS AND ARROWS YEAH GREAT IDEA LETS REVERSE OVER 500 YEARS OF TECHNOLOGY AND ADVANCED WARFARE BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE USING GUNS TO KILL EACH OTHER. OH MY GOD THE HORROR, PEOPLE ARE USING GUNS TO KILL EACH OTHER, ITS ALMOST AS IF THEY WERE USING THEM FOR THE PURPOSE THEY WERE INTENDED!!!!!"

You realize that its not the actual weapon thats the issue, its the wielder.
If there is no fear of punishment, you will have no fear of repurcusions for doing such an action. I am in full favor of the eye for an eye , tooth for a tooth arguement. You take a life for reasons of anger, hate, rage or wanton violence or crime - you forfiet your life in the eyes of our nation.
You intentionally and purposely end the existance of another, that should invalidate yours. Rehabilitation? Yeah that works great....especially when most of the "rehabilitized" criminals we send back into society just return.

Your arguement for Gun laws shouldn't concen the guns, just the punishment for using them improperly and illegally. A gun is a killing tool, much like a sword or a bow. Without someone to wield them, they are harmless.

AND

If these two crackpot idiots hadn't had guns they would have used probably knives, axe, chainsaw or hell even a stick to kill each other.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » August 9, 2005, 12:20 pm

Well then maybe any old yahoo fuck shouldn't be able to get his hands on one, or many, so easily.

OK OUTLAW ALL GUNS, REMOVE ALL GUNS, LETS GO BACK TO KILLING EACH OTHER WITH KNIVES AND BOWS AND ARROWS YEAH GREAT IDEA LETS REVERSE OVER 500 YEARS OF TECHNOLOGY AND ADVANCED WARFARE BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE USING GUNS TO KILL EACH OTHER. OH MY GOD THE HORROR, PEOPLE ARE USING GUNS TO KILL EACH OTHER, ITS ALMOST AS IF THEY WERE USING THEM FOR THE PURPOSE THEY WERE INTENDED!!!!!"

Way to miss the point, the issue isn't whether all guns should be melted down and done away with so that we can all reverse to Lotr fantasy worlds. (Yeah because IM SURE NO ONE ON THIS BOARD WOULD EVER THINK SOMETHING LIKE THAT)

The point is that the ease in which retards that live in a country with the highest gun crime anywhere on the planet (apart from pyscho zone columbia - as far as Im aware) can purchase and use without the same sort of checks and standards most other civilized nations use.

The folly of failing to do that is self evident in stories such as these.

Hell yeah it's retards that are to blame, but anyone stupid enough to support that retards right to run around brandishing lethal devices is just as fucking stupid.

Niffoni · Post by **Niffoni** » August 9, 2005, 12:23 pm

As much as I like the IDEA of all militant political extremests grabbing their pistols and wiping each other out, it's much less hilarious in actual practise.

Sylvos · Post by **Sylvos** » August 9, 2005, 12:41 pm

I didn't miss the point of jack or shit, the main basis behind his comments are to have guns locked away. This is absolute nonsense, the idea my overseas psuedosavant is to impliment proper education and laws to ensure that the act of taking a life with a firearm or any weapon will result in execution.
Cause we all know that everyone outside the US is perfect and would never ever try to kill someone with a firearm.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » August 9, 2005, 12:54 pm

Yeah because that's what I'm implying.

There is however, not one other developed country with this sort of stupid shit happening so often, care to explain why?

he didn't say remove all guns, he said at least keep them locked up at a fucking flea market

That's just common sense!

Sylvos · Post by **Sylvos** » August 9, 2005, 1:03 pm

it happens everyday in every part of the world.
You obviously haven't heard of the continent called "Africa" where you have mass genocide going on daily or perhaps the cutthroat guerilla warfare that takes place in South America with the drug cartels.
If you truely believe that your little island is perfect, you are even more niave than we had originally thought.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » August 9, 2005, 1:12 pm

Notice the word developed?

And you assume faaaaaaaaaar too much about my opinions on Ireland.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » August 9, 2005, 1:23 pm

actually Sylvos its not "natural selection at work". these people have already passed through reproductive stage successfully - one's daughter was interviewed.

It woudl be natural selection at work if the idiot died before he ever got to pass his inferior genes to his progeny.

the worst part is, now i have to cancel my trip to Kentucky to shop at all of the flea markets!!!

miir · Post by **miir** » August 9, 2005, 1:35 pm

I'm sick to death of the arugement that guns need to be outlawed

I challenge you to find ANYONE that posts here that has made the argument that guns should be outlawed.

Typical 'conservative' tactic to make shit up in order to make their lunatic ranting seem less insane.

Sylvos · Post by **Sylvos** » August 9, 2005, 1:44 pm

miir wrote:
I'm sick to death of the arugement that guns need to be outlawed

I challenge you to find ANYONE that posts here that has made the argument that guns should be outlawed.

Typical 'conservative' tactic to make shit up in order to make their lunatic ranting seem less insane.

You obviously have not been in irc when we were discussing the very same topic, obvious idiot tactic is to CHALLENGE YOU for no fucking reason cause you can't find anything else to quote that you can spew mindless rhetoric at.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » August 9, 2005, 1:52 pm

Why can't all just get along?

Seriously though, I just don't think this whole gun debate is such an issue in any other country for the absurdly simple fact that in the wrong hands, they are dangerous (fatally so). As such, proper regulations should be put in place to allow only those with legitimate reasons to own one, or the safety of sanity to carry one.

Even then, promoting a situation whereby guns are "ok" is literally just asking for more mindless deaths.

Which doesn't really bode well for the overall feeling of security in a country, or indeed the "freedom" to walk down the street without fear of having your torso or brain ripped apart by some lunatic that has a machine that can fire metal into your body at several hundred miles an hour.

Not to say all parts of the US are like that, but there are some. Just like during the troubles over here, and there is a reason they were called troubles and not "harmlessness but in the wrong hands".

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » August 9, 2005, 2:32 pm

There is however, not one other developed country with this sort of stupid shit happening so often, care to explain why?

Because the United States has a much more socioeconomically stratified society than other developed nations.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » August 9, 2005, 2:36 pm

Sueven wrote:
There is however, not one other developed country with this sort of stupid shit happening so often, care to explain why?
Because the United States has a much more socioeconomically stratified society than other developed nations.

Calcified might be a better term

...with a layer of oil between the 2 significant strata even...

miir · Post by **miir** » August 9, 2005, 2:37 pm

Sylvos wrote:
miir wrote:
I'm sick to death of the arugement that guns need to be outlawed

I challenge you to find ANYONE that posts here that has made the argument that guns should be outlawed.

Typical 'conservative' tactic to make shit up in order to make their lunatic ranting seem less insane.

You obviously have not been in irc when we were discussing the very same topic, obvious idiot tactic is to CHALLENGE YOU for no fucking reason cause you can't find anything else to quote that you can spew mindless rhetoric at.

Um no shit sherlock. I don't waste my day in IRC listening to you idiots spew your nonsensical horseshit for 8-9 hourse a day. I don't believe I even brought up what people say in IRC.

And if anyone tries to argue that 'guns should be outlawed' they are either a fucking idiot or just trying to get a rise out of you gun loving rednecks. I suspect it's the latter.

Sylvos · Post by **Sylvos** » August 9, 2005, 2:41 pm

sure sure sure

Nick · Post by **Nick** » August 9, 2005, 2:54 pm

what an argument!

Calcified might be a better term ...with a layer of oil between the 2 significant strata even...

nice arbo

good work.

Sylvos · Post by **Sylvos** » August 9, 2005, 2:57 pm

You had sex with an Aardvark?
I didn't even think that was legal.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » August 9, 2005, 3:06 pm

The blue eyshadow made her legal.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » August 9, 2005, 3:39 pm

Nick wrote:what an argument!

Calcified might be a better term ...with a layer of oil between the 2 significant strata even...
nice arbo good work.

/bow

Every once in a while I find an acorn...

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » August 9, 2005, 5:28 pm

Actually I think it is a sad thing that someone killed their friend in a heated argument. Doesn't matter that used guns or not really. All that matters is a man is dead.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » August 9, 2005, 6:07 pm

here are some numbers (murders with firearms per capita from 98 to 2k):

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_mur_wit_fir_cap

and the source:

Seventh United Nations Survey of Crime Trends and Operations of Criminal Justice Systems, covering the period 1998 - 2000 (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Centre for International Crime Prevention)

there's all kinds of statistics on this site.

Niffoni · Post by **Niffoni** » August 9, 2005, 8:56 pm

I think everyone should own guns, but only I should get armor.

So many problems would solve themselves.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » August 9, 2005, 10:22 pm

Nick wrote:The blue eyshadow made her legal.

Fuck yeah on the quote!

Nick · Post by **Nick** » August 9, 2005, 10:47 pm