Corruption in Government and Cynicism in the Electorate...

[Wulfran]

Most of you Americans and Europeans probably aren't aware, but in Canada, right now the federal government is being rocked by a corruption scandal that is being called the "worst scandal in Canadian political history", will likely result in our parliament being dissolved and another federal election being called earlier than the "rule of thumb" 4 year term (we went to the polls at the end of last June).

In short, the government under the former Prime Minister (Jean Chretien) had a program in promote federalism (as opposed to seperatism) in Quebec to the tune of around $240 million. The Auditor general has found the in excess of $150 million went to friends of the governing Liberal Party for little or no real work being done. An official inquiry into the allocation of these funds has resulted in a couple criminal prosecutions to senior civil servants running the program and execs in some of the companies that were "contracted". In the course of the inquiry, there have been allegations of kickbacks to high ranking members of the Liberal party (one of the names mentioned is the brother of the former Liberal PM, Gaby Chretien), that while not completely proven, seem to be pretty substantial, possibly even affecting members of the current cabinet.

It gets a little more interesting as the current government here, in our "British-style" Parliament holds the most seats but not a majority and is thus vulnerable to a "non-confidence" vote which if proposed and passed means that parliament would be dissolved and we would be voting on a new gov't, PDQ. The most recent polls have really 3 facts that they display:

- the governing Liberals have taken a kicking, dropping down past the Conservatives who are the official opposition and almost down to the level of the 3rd string party in Cdn politics (the socialist NDP)

- the majority of Canadians don't want to see an election called until the official inquiry is complete (which I agree with also)

- there is a large segment of the population that just doesn't seem to care one way or the other.

To me, I wasn't a fan of the Liberal party (voted against them in the last election and every other one as long as I have been old enough to vote ), so the allegations don't change my stance towards the government. I do hope they fall and we elect someone if not more accountable, at least smart enough to hide the shit they pull. I am very disturbed about the apathy in the Canadian populace though: a lot of people don't seem to give a shit that it was their tax dollars that were robbed. I'm saddened that our government seems to be infested with corruption on this scale, comparable almost to a developing nation rather than a supposedly developed nation, but the apathy truly bothers me.

Do you guys think the public reaction would be different at all in your country(s)?

(Note: if you really want more details, you can look up the Gomery inquiry or the Sponsourship Scandal on Canadian sites such as http://www.cbc.ca or http://www.ctv.ca)

[Winnow]

The Frenchies are going to destroy Canada. That's probably why the U.S. is tightening borders in the north as well. We'll have wetbacks from the south and snowbacks coming in from the north battling for the honor of washing my dishes.

jk, most canucks are good peeps and the french plague infesting your country is nothing to joke about. Civil war isn't out of the question.

[miir]

Even with the scandal, the conservatives know they couldn't even get a minority government. They are hard pressed to get any seats east of Manitoba and that's offset by the handful of seats the liberals pick up out west.

Even with the corruption scandal, the average canadian (east of manitoba) would rather elect a 'corrupt' liberal government than put the inept conservatives in power.
That's why Harper has been so pussy about voting against anything. He knows that they would get stomped at the polls once again.

To be honest, the only people who seem to be getting their feathers ruffled by all of this is the media. Even with the big kerfuffle about the 'sponsorship scandal' last year, and the media telling us that the conservatives were virtually a shoe-in for at least a minority, the election results told a vastly different story.
I've tried to bring up conversation about it but most people are like...meh... whatever. It might be because of where I work and that most of my friends are either lawyers, bankers or in IT at a bank. A conservative (or anything other than liberal) is not even an option. I don't even hear people discussing it on the subway or on the street.

[Atokal]

Even with the scandal, the conservatives know they couldn't even get a minority government. They are hard pressed to get any seats east of Manitoba and that's offset by the handful of seats the liberals pick up out west.

Even with the corruption scandal, the average canadian (east of manitoba) would rather elect a 'corrupt' liberal government than put the inept conservatives in power.
That's why Harper has been so pussy about voting against anything. He knows that they would get stomped at the polls once again.

To be honest, the only people who seem to be getting their feathers ruffled by all of this is the media. Even with the big kerfuffle about the 'sponsorship scandal' last year, and the media telling us that the conservatives were virtually a shoe-in for at least a minority, the election results told a vastly different story.
I've tried to bring up conversation about it but most people are like...meh... whatever. It might be because of where I work and that most of my friends are either lawyers, bankers or in IT at a bank. A conservative (or anything other than liberal) is not even an option. I don't even hear people discussing it on the subway or on the street.

Miir, while I respect your indifference to this corruption, I must admit that my findings are similiar to yours. It seems the folks 19 to 30 don't care that their government has perpetrated this fraud on them. that millions of dollars went into bribes, money laundering, Jean Cretin (misspelled on purpose) and his family and cronies all benefitted from this.

It is time we turfed these fat bastard liberals out on their collective asses and gave Harper a shot at it.

[Lynks]

So he can take away our Healthcare? Don't think so. If he would just leave it be, he would get a lot more support, but the thing is, thats pretty much on the top of his agenda.

[Winnow]

How about five to ten new stars on the American flag and we say bye bye to Canada? You wouldn't have to get DirecTV illegally anymore. It's a better deal for Canadians than Americans.

We'd take care of the frenchy problem of yours in a hurry!

[miir]

I'd rather have Bush Corp running Canada than Harper and his inept crew.

A few million dollars is a drop in the bucket compared to the potential harm a clueless PC/Conservative/Reform (or whateverthehell they are calling themselves these days) majority could cause.

It seems the folks 19 to 30 don't care that their government has perpetrated this fraud on them

It's not just that specific demographic.... regardless of age (most of my friends are in their late 30s, early 40s) people would sooner accept corruption than ineptitude. The influence of american politics and GW Bush has given conservatism a very poor image in Canada.

People 'care'... but given the alternatives, it's easy to understand that people aren't as SHOCKED at this SCANDAL as the media would like them to be.

[miir]

Winnow, could you kindly leave your unique brand of faggotry off this thread.


If you have any opinions or insight on this, we'd be happy to hear them but your canada/french "jokes" are really not the slightest bit entertaining or funny.

[Winnow]

Winnow, could you kindly leave your unique brand of faggotry off this thread.


If you have any opinions or insight on this, we'd be happy to hear them but your canada/french "jokes" are really not the slightest bit entertaining or funny.

They aren't jokes. They are specifically meant to irritate.

Ignoring my disgust of french attitudes, Canada would probably be better off as part of the United States. Canadians spend a lot of time bad mouthing american government and it's leaders on this forum. Your own dirty little secrets are just as bad. Do you really see a resolution to your political problems including the major ones with Quebec?

[Niffoni]

Honestly, in response to Winnow, I'd love to airdrop a few of our less intelligent french-canadians into the deep south and see how long they survive. But that's because I'm a mean person =)

I fall on the conservative side of the fence, at least in eastern Canada (everywhere else in north america, I'm a filthy liberal ), but even i can't see Harper as a realistic alternative. More specifically his new conservatives. The whole "unite the right" campaign has made it a haven for wackos and political dinosaurs. Unfortunately, the liberals know this, so they feel like they can do any damn thing they want.

[nobody]

Winnow, could you kindly leave your unique brand of faggotry off this thread.


If you have any opinions or insight on this, we'd be happy to hear them but your canada/french "jokes" are really not the slightest bit entertaining or funny.

you're not even a real country anyway. blame canada!

[miir]

They aren't jokes. They are specifically meant to irritate.

Who exactly are you trying to irritate?
I don't think there are any quebecois who post on the CE forum.
Most of us don't care if you take shots and french Canadians... that would be akin to you getting irritated at me taking potshots at rednecks from kentucky.

Canadians spend a lot of time bad mouthing american government and it's leaders on this forum. Your own dirty little secrets are just as bad.

Then feel free to badmouth/criticize the Canadian government... we can take it... or are you, in typical american style, completely ignorant of how things are run in Canada?
At least when a Canadian voices opinions on american politics, they have some semblance of knowledge on the topic. You just make yourself look like an idiot by injecting your gradeschool insults at french Canadians into a conversation about Canadian politics.

[miir]

I'd love to airdrop a few of our less intelligent french-canadians into the deep south

you getting irritated at me taking potshots at rednecks from kentucky.

[miir]

Winnow, could you kindly leave your unique brand of faggotry off this thread.


If you have any opinions or insight on this, we'd be happy to hear them but your canada/french "jokes" are really not the slightest bit entertaining or funny.

you're not even a real country anyway. blame canada!

OMG ROOFLEZ LOL!!!!oneoen1!!

HAHAH DID U TIHNK THAT UP BY URSELF???/

I NEVR HERD THAT 1 BEFORE HAHA UR SO FUNEEE!!11!!1!

[Animalor]

Holy shit those South Park lyrics are getting old.

I might have voted conservative back when it was the PC. I am definately not voting for those Canadian Alliance fuckers or whatever the hell they call themselves nowadays.

Stephen Harper looks like someone who would sell out the country in a heartbeat to the highest bidder. Not a fan of their stance on social issues either.

Frankly, if there's another election, I'm probably going to vote NDP again.

[Winnow]

Then feel free to badmouth/criticize the Canadian government... we can take it... or are you, in typical american style, completely ignorant of how things are run in Canada?
At least when a Canadian voices opinions on american politics, they have some semblance of knowledge on the topic. You just make yourself look like an idiot by injecting your gradeschool insults at french Canadians into a conversation about Canadian politics.

As political knowledge goes, it's more useful on the global scale of things to know how the United States government functions than the Canadian socialist government.

I get all my Canadian politcal news from this site:

http://www.politicswatch.com/index2.html

Should I be going elsewhere?

[Hesten]

As political knowledge goes, it's more useful on the global scale of things to know how the United States government functions than the Canadian socialist government.

Yeah, the US ARE a bigger player, after all, their scandals are on a global scale and affect us all, the canadian (or danish for that matter) arent really that important, usually only hurt their own countries

[Zaelath]

Even with the scandal, the conservatives know they couldn't even get a minority government. They are hard pressed to get any seats east of Manitoba and that's offset by the handful of seats the liberals pick up out west.

Even with the corruption scandal, the average canadian (east of manitoba) would rather elect a 'corrupt' liberal government than put the inept conservatives in power.
That's why Harper has been so pussy about voting against anything. He knows that they would get stomped at the polls once again.

To be honest, the only people who seem to be getting their feathers ruffled by all of this is the media. Even with the big kerfuffle about the 'sponsorship scandal' last year, and the media telling us that the conservatives were virtually a shoe-in for at least a minority, the election results told a vastly different story.
I've tried to bring up conversation about it but most people are like...meh... whatever. It might be because of where I work and that most of my friends are either lawyers, bankers or in IT at a bank. A conservative (or anything other than liberal) is not even an option. I don't even hear people discussing it on the subway or on the street.

Miir, while I respect your indifference to this corruption, I must admit that my findings are similiar to yours. It seems the folks 19 to 30 don't care that their government has perpetrated this fraud on them. that millions of dollars went into bribes, money laundering, Jean Cretin (misspelled on purpose) and his family and cronies all benefitted from this.

It is time we turfed these fat bastard liberals out on their collective asses and gave Harper a shot at it.

I'd say you were a fucking hypocrite, but you're far too much of a partisan jackass to understand why.

[nobody]

Winnow, could you kindly leave your unique brand of faggotry off this thread.


If you have any opinions or insight on this, we'd be happy to hear them but your canada/french "jokes" are really not the slightest bit entertaining or funny.

you're not even a real country anyway. blame canada!

OMG ROOFLEZ LOL!!!!oneoen1!!

HAHAH DID U TIHNK THAT UP BY URSELF???/

I NEVR HERD THAT 1 BEFORE HAHA UR SO FUNEEE!!11!!1!

harhar yourself, your reaction was even funnier i wasn't really trying too hard at an attempt at humor obviously, but it sure got you riled up enough to CAPS your weetahted weeply. i don't really hate Canada Miir, just you, lighten up eh?

[Marbus]

Hell we KNOW Haliburton conneed the Gov. out of over a BILLION, not million, BILLON dollers (1.8 I think) of which our Vice President get a bonus on his retirement from and the stupid people in American STILL voted Bush, it's not that people don't care, it's just that most of them are too stupid to put 2 and 2 together and come up with 4.

Marb

[miir]

harhar yourself, your reaction was even funnier i wasn't really trying too hard at an attempt at humor obviously, but it sure got you riled up enough to CAPS your weetahted weeply. i don't really hate Canada Miir, just you, lighten up eh?

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!!!
TAKE THAT, MISTER ORIGINALITY!!!11!

[Sylvos]

haha you silly canadians always the bridesmaid never the bride.

[Wulfran]

Even with the corruption scandal, the average canadian (east of manitoba) would rather elect a 'corrupt' liberal government than put the inept conservatives in power.

And this is honestly something I don't understand about eastern Canada: your ability to pass judgement on someone as inept, when you haven't seen what they will do. It seems that if a leader isn't from Ontario or Quebec, eastern Canada doesn't trust them... even if they shouldn't trust the alternative.

IMO the most inept governments Canada ever saw were the Quebec dominated Liberals under Trudeau (hello national debt, please come in, grow and please kick the shit out of the strength of the currency and standard of living while you're at it). The last Conservative government under Mulroney wasn't much better, but then again I would argue these were anything other than a second Liberal party. Some of these new Conservatives you like to call inept have worked with the Klein government in Alberta to make it the most prosperous province in the nation, the first to attack overspending, one of the first to eradicate its deficit (I think Romanow and the NDP eliminated the deficit in Saskatchewan first but by raising business taxes that hasn't helped their struggling economy) and the first to retire its debt. I realize Ralph isn't popular with people with affiliations to organized labour, and there were some mistakes made but the end results are there, and were copied by Ontario's Premier Harris to reform and rebuild Ontario's finances.

A few million dollars is a drop in the bucket compared to the potential harm a clueless PC/Conservative/Reform (or whateverthehell they are calling themselves these days) majority could cause.

Yeah this is only in the neighbourhood of $150-175 million... plus the between $1.5 and 3.5 billion on the Human Resources thing a couple years back when Jane Stewart was the Minister under Chretien. Its all chump change...

So he can take away our Healthcare? Don't think so. If he would just leave it be, he would get a lot more support, but the thing is, thats pretty much on the top of his agenda.

This is exactly what I was refering to above. This "stance" on healthcare was something invented by the Liberals and NDP as a scare tactic and Maritimers and Ontarians swallow it, hook, line and sinker in. Yes, the ALBERTA government has advocated privatization of some services but the federal conservatives have not. And even the Liberals admit that the Canadian health care system needs to be changed, as it simply costs too much. It needs to be fixed and we need to examine a variety of options before we pass judgement.

As far as it goes, I am not in love with Harper as a leader either but compared to the ineptitude and corruption of the Liberals, I dont see much choice. We can talk about conservative wingnuts too, but lets not forget the most outspoken idiot in Canadian politics is probably Carolyn Parrish, an Ontario Liberal.

[kyoukan]

Should I be going elsewhere?

I can think of a few places, you stupid fucking douchebag.

[Winnow]

The eskimo lives!

[noel]

Should I be going elsewhere?

I can think of a few places, you stupid fucking douchebag.

Thank you God!

*fights back tears*

[Truant]

Hell we KNOW Haliburton conneed the Gov. out of over a BILLION, not million, BILLON dollers (1.8 I think) of which our Vice President get a bonus on his retirement from and the stupid people in American STILL voted Bush, it's not that people don't care, it's just that most of them are too stupid to put 2 and 2 together and come up with 4.

Marb

Nah, it's God's Will.

[Nick]

About bloody time! the she devil.

[Cartalas]

So Let me get this straight the canadians can jump in on American Politics any time they see fit, but americans cant post in the canadian political thread?


what a crock!!

[Nick]

Um...no.....retard.

Now hit me with another uneducated comment about the country I live in, since it's all your fucking drooling slack jaw is good for.

Please!

[miir]

There's a big difference between voicing your opinion and posting inane horseshit (like french insults and south park lines).... not that a fucking retard like you would know the difference. You don't have an opinion on anything and you have the mental capacity of a 6 year old.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Should I be going elsewhere?

I can think of a few places, you stupid fucking douchebag.

Oh boy!

[Voronwë]

woo woo!

[Marbus]

WB Koyu!

[dibit_eq]

I think the subtle difference is that the American government has the corruption thing down to a science. Years of experience really make it easier. Obviously, the Prime Minister should have known to ensure that the Auditor general was on his private payroll so that no such official bell-ringing would occur. In America, yeah, a good portion of us are pretty stupid, but the rest of us who are certain that Bush is giving Americans the shaft can't really prove anything because all the government channels for any accusation are paid off by those in power. Good times.

[Voronwë]

yeah, i was gonna make a comment about this scandal being "amateur hour"

[Aabidano]

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/financ ... ntro_e.asp