http://www.peakoil.net
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net
http://www.oilcrisis.com
So we have a number of people who have been in the oil business for a long time, who are well educated, well grounded people...who think that oil production is going to peak very soon....and our plans for alternatives are very inadequate, to say the least. I have done a lot of digging into this subject for a while....and its pretty disturbing. While I am not the doom-and-gloom backer that can be found on the second link I posted, I do think the global economy is in for a big-ass sting in the not so far away future.
A book is coming out this summer:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... 61-5773413
Written by Matthew R simmons, who is the chairman of Simmons & Co. International, the worlds top energy investment bank, and one of the Bush Administrations top energy advisors, is blowing the bullshit horn on Saudi Arabia, big time.
Discuss!
Are we like, totally fucked?
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Niffoni
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Well, it's hard to say. I would speculate that before the effects of this are felt, the swelling numbers of the underclass will rise as one militant, anarchic mass and erradicate human civilization as we know it.
But hey, some believe that sweeping climate changes will spell our extinction before peak oil, so who can say which horror will decimate the human race first?
Then again, maybe I just need to stop watching the fucking news.
But hey, some believe that sweeping climate changes will spell our extinction before peak oil, so who can say which horror will decimate the human race first?
Then again, maybe I just need to stop watching the fucking news.
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all. - Douglas Adams
There are people here in Texas, mineral rights owners, that have gotten in the habit of sitting on newly discovered oil reserves because as one guy put it, "in 15-20 years that oil that's $50 a barrel will be more valuable than gold."
The energy industry knows there's a huge crisis coming, yet people are encouraged to drive land yachts and waste energy rather than conserve.
The energy industry knows there's a huge crisis coming, yet people are encouraged to drive land yachts and waste energy rather than conserve.
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Trias
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basically we are past the point where conserving won't do anything but delay the inevitable!
awesome!
TWO MAN ENTER ONE MAN LEAVE! TWO MAN ENTER ONE MAN LEAVE! TWO MAN ENTER ONE MAN LEAVE! TWO MAN ENTER ONE MAN LEAVE! TWO MAN ENTER ONE MAN LEAVE! TWO MAN ENTER ONE MAN LEAVE! TWO MAN ENTER ONE MAN LEAVE! TWO MAN ENTER ONE MAN LEAVE! TWO MAN ENTER ONE MAN LEAVE! TWO MAN ENTER ONE MAN LEAVE! TWO MAN ENTER ONE MAN LEAVE! TWO MAN ENTER ONE MAN LEAVE!
awesome!
TWO MAN ENTER ONE MAN LEAVE! TWO MAN ENTER ONE MAN LEAVE! TWO MAN ENTER ONE MAN LEAVE! TWO MAN ENTER ONE MAN LEAVE! TWO MAN ENTER ONE MAN LEAVE! TWO MAN ENTER ONE MAN LEAVE! TWO MAN ENTER ONE MAN LEAVE! TWO MAN ENTER ONE MAN LEAVE! TWO MAN ENTER ONE MAN LEAVE! TWO MAN ENTER ONE MAN LEAVE! TWO MAN ENTER ONE MAN LEAVE! TWO MAN ENTER ONE MAN LEAVE!
/rant on
I could easily work from home four out of five days a week but my company doesn't have the foresight to allow it. I've been trying to tell them that I can surf from home just as ealisy as from work and make the company look good at the same time on those conservation surveys you have to fill out each year. My company isn't even bright enough to figure out 4X10's much less telecommuting.
Companies are still too worried that employees will goof off if they work from home, which is true, but it's easy enough to gauge performance and fire those that don't complete tasks. And think about it, if you do get lucky enough to work from home, do you really want to lose that job? Hell no.
Employers are way too slow to catch up to the internet network way of life these days. There's too much travelling to and from work that is a huge natural resource waste for many white collar jobs.
/rant off.
Max: I don't know anything about methane.
Aunty Entity: You can shovel shit can't you?
Tina's Underrated song!
I could easily work from home four out of five days a week but my company doesn't have the foresight to allow it. I've been trying to tell them that I can surf from home just as ealisy as from work and make the company look good at the same time on those conservation surveys you have to fill out each year. My company isn't even bright enough to figure out 4X10's much less telecommuting.
Companies are still too worried that employees will goof off if they work from home, which is true, but it's easy enough to gauge performance and fire those that don't complete tasks. And think about it, if you do get lucky enough to work from home, do you really want to lose that job? Hell no.
Employers are way too slow to catch up to the internet network way of life these days. There's too much travelling to and from work that is a huge natural resource waste for many white collar jobs.
/rant off.
Max: I don't know anything about methane.
Aunty Entity: You can shovel shit can't you?
Tina's Underrated song!
Out of the ruins
Out from the wreckage
Can't make the same mistake this time
We are the children
the last generation
We are the ones they left behind
And I wonder when we are ever gonna change it
Living under the fear till nothing else remains
We don't need another hero
We don't need to know the way home
All we want is life beyond the thunderdome
Looking for something we can rely on
There's got to be something better out there
Love and compassion, their day is coming
All else are castles built in the air
And I wonder when we are ever gonna change it
Living under the fear till nothing else remains
All the children say
We don't need another hero
We don't need to know the way home
All we want is life beyond the thunderdome
What do we do with our lives
We leave only a mark
Will our story shine like a life
Or end in the dark
Give it all or nothing
Should the world reach the point that this takes hold as a primary source of fuel for the automotive industry the damn vegans will never stop lording it over us carnivores...
http://www.soygold.com/biodiesel.htm
http://www.soygold.com/biodiesel.htm
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Skogen
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Here is another happy, uplifting site:
http://home.entouch.net/dmd/ghawar.htm
It's about the state of the Ghawar, the worlds largest oil field in Saudi Arabia. This was written about a year ago btw..
http://home.entouch.net/dmd/ghawar.htm
It's about the state of the Ghawar, the worlds largest oil field in Saudi Arabia. This was written about a year ago btw..
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Skogen
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This just in!
From today's San Francisco Chronical:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... C50P61.DTL
From today's San Francisco Chronical:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... C50P61.DTL
people dont discuss when you just link articles.
you have to take a very important thesis-like statement, and quote it to draw them into reading the article.
or at the very least discussing that one/two sentence summary statement =D.
all i know is i'm glad i have a family member who owns a huge position in a major petrochemical industry, who we will inherit money from one day most likely
Huge by normal people standards, not huge by oil baron standards. (ie six-seven figures, not 8-10 figures ).
you have to take a very important thesis-like statement, and quote it to draw them into reading the article.
or at the very least discussing that one/two sentence summary statement =D.
all i know is i'm glad i have a family member who owns a huge position in a major petrochemical industry, who we will inherit money from one day most likely
Huge by normal people standards, not huge by oil baron standards. (ie six-seven figures, not 8-10 figures ).-
Trias
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and then we groundlings will eat your flesh and take your oil money, tyrant!Voronwë wrote:people dont discuss when you just link articles.
you have to take a very important thesis-like statement, and quote it to draw them into reading the article.
or at the very least discussing that one/two sentence summary statement =D.
all i know is i'm glad i have a family member who owns a huge position in a major petrochemical industry, who we will inherit money from one day most likely
haha ^^
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Bubba Grizz
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I found an article on this site interesting:Voronwë wrote:people dont discuss when you just link articles.
http://www.cnn.com
discuss!
http://www.veeshanvault.org/forums/view ... hp?t=10850Skogen wrote:discuss god damnit!!!
Did a while back, though the price has been a lot lower than I'd have expected from that article. Probably just artificially low, but that's always been the way..
May 2003 - "Mission Accomplished"
June 2005 - "The mission isn't easy, and it will not be accomplished overnight"
-- G W Bush, freelance writer for The Daily Show.
June 2005 - "The mission isn't easy, and it will not be accomplished overnight"
-- G W Bush, freelance writer for The Daily Show.
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Skogen
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Now Winnow...Winnow wrote:I found an article on this site interesting:Voronwë wrote:people dont discuss when you just link articles.
http://www.cnn.com
discuss!
CNN.com is a new website with news articles with subjects that vary from whether Brittney Spears is pregnant to a possible military showdown between the US and Iran.
The links I posted ALL have to do with Peak Oil!
So, now, without further adue....
DISCUSS MOTHERFUCKERS!!!!!
While the price of oil will inevitably rise to much higher levels, an oil "shortage" is not a reality, i.e. we won't run out of oil, we will just run out of cheap oil.
Hopefully this higher price will help force the government into funding research of alternative energy sources, but the price of oil is so low now that it is about 3-4 times cheaper than any other form of energy out there. Thus, the price of gas could triple and it would still be the cheapest way to drive your car around.
That isn't very comforting to us, but it is the reality until a cheaper alternative is found (be that biodiesel or whatever). Hopefully a renewable, net sum zero in carbon dioxide form of energy can be discovered (solar? fusion?) in the near future, but research into it definitely needs a strong infusion of money and talent.
Animale
Hopefully this higher price will help force the government into funding research of alternative energy sources, but the price of oil is so low now that it is about 3-4 times cheaper than any other form of energy out there. Thus, the price of gas could triple and it would still be the cheapest way to drive your car around.
That isn't very comforting to us, but it is the reality until a cheaper alternative is found (be that biodiesel or whatever). Hopefully a renewable, net sum zero in carbon dioxide form of energy can be discovered (solar? fusion?) in the near future, but research into it definitely needs a strong infusion of money and talent.
Animale
Animale Vicioso
64 Gnome Enchanter
<retired>
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<retired>
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Hyjal <retired>
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Skogen
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Ayes...but how higher will the prices go, and at what rate? Keep in mind that gasoline is just the tip of the peak oil iceburg. Oil is used for much more than refining what goes into our gas tank. For instance..plastics. Plastics use petroleum products in there make up. Think about how many everyday and non-everyday items plastics are in. Cost of oil skyrockets = cost of plastics manufacture skyrockets. Cost of plastics skyrockets = well, you figure it out...
Yeah it is a laughing matter if you don't mind your grandchildren leading absurdly fucked up lives in atrocious weather conditions and no easy way to fuel their existence.
In short, yeah, if we continue (I.e The so called Developed world) at the current rate of destruction, peak oil will be one of the many agendas we leave our unfortunate descendants to clear up because we were too fucking retarded to do anything other than swallow the usual spoonful of propoganda about how it's all ok, sure the world runs on magic after all!
Come on everyone, lets laugh out loud....get a good rumble all the way from your lower gut going on and let out a hearty chuckle at this whole fearmongering campaign by the evil eco warriors of the world.
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In short, yeah, if we continue (I.e The so called Developed world) at the current rate of destruction, peak oil will be one of the many agendas we leave our unfortunate descendants to clear up because we were too fucking retarded to do anything other than swallow the usual spoonful of propoganda about how it's all ok, sure the world runs on magic after all!
Come on everyone, lets laugh out loud....get a good rumble all the way from your lower gut going on and let out a hearty chuckle at this whole fearmongering campaign by the evil eco warriors of the world.
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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masteen
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I will never have offspring, and thus I scoff at your "future." Fuck the future, I'm buying a Hummer and dropping a turbo into it!Teenybloke wrote:Yeah it is a laughing matter if you don't mind your grandchildren leading absurdly fucked up lives in atrocious weather conditions and no easy way to fuel their existence.
In short, yeah, if we continue (I.e The so called Developed world) at the current rate of destruction, peak oil will be one of the many agendas we leave our unfortunate descendants to clear up because we were too fucking retarded to do anything other than swallow the usual spoonful of propoganda about how it's all ok, sure the world runs on magic after all!
Come on everyone, lets laugh out loud....get a good rumble all the way from your lower gut going on and let out a hearty chuckle at this whole fearmongering campaign by the evil eco warriors of the world.
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt
Will oil production peak? Sure, someday. When that will be is a far trickier question though. Personally I am skeptical that it is imminent.
The more pertinent question though is probably how likely the peak of oil production and past it will be a signficant shock to the world economy. I am even more skeptical that it will be than I am of the peak coming soon. As prices rise, other methods of oil extraction (and other methods of energy creation in general) will become more feasible. Substitution effects will kick in. Consumption patterns will change. It is more likely to be a gradual process than any sharp sudden crises.
The more pertinent question though is probably how likely the peak of oil production and past it will be a signficant shock to the world economy. I am even more skeptical that it will be than I am of the peak coming soon. As prices rise, other methods of oil extraction (and other methods of energy creation in general) will become more feasible. Substitution effects will kick in. Consumption patterns will change. It is more likely to be a gradual process than any sharp sudden crises.
No nation was ever ruined by trade.
– Benjamin Franklin
– Benjamin Franklin
I know where you're going (things like shale oil, which are vast reserves but not economically viable to extract at the moment). Not confident they can, regardless of price, produce oil/alternatives in quantities that would satisfy demand.Chmee wrote:Will oil production peak? Sure, someday. When that will be is a far trickier question though. Personally I am skeptical that it is imminent.
The more pertinent question though is probably how likely the peak of oil production and past it will be a signficant shock to the world economy. I am even more skeptical that it will be than I am of the peak coming soon. As prices rise, other methods of oil extraction (and other methods of energy creation in general) will become more feasible. Substitution effects will kick in. Consumption patterns will change. It is more likely to be a gradual process than any sharp sudden crises.
If supply is truely restricted, and I'm talking about only a 4-5x price increase, then the economic impact will be short and sharp =/
We'll live to see it at any rate. Going to be a very interesting decade.
May 2003 - "Mission Accomplished"
June 2005 - "The mission isn't easy, and it will not be accomplished overnight"
-- G W Bush, freelance writer for The Daily Show.
June 2005 - "The mission isn't easy, and it will not be accomplished overnight"
-- G W Bush, freelance writer for The Daily Show.
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Fash
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i am not at all concerned about the price of gas... we in the united states pay far less than any other country, solely based on our high demand and use of it.. i enjoy that priveledge, and still will drive around the mountain when it hits $3/gallon...
working from home is definately the wave of the future.. it's also a cure for the overpopulated cities, and would allow us to spread out a bit.. might need internet2 to accomodate an increase like that however..
working from home is definately the wave of the future.. it's also a cure for the overpopulated cities, and would allow us to spread out a bit.. might need internet2 to accomodate an increase like that however..
Fash
--
Naivety is dangerous.
--
Naivety is dangerous.
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Skogen
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The question here really isn't about the price of gasoline...it's about the price of oil. It goes way, way, WAY beyond of how much you have to spend to fill your gas tank. Just do a little research on how just how much our lives are intertwined with oil...it's scarey!!Fash wrote:i am not at all concerned about the price of gas... we in the united states pay far less than any other country, solely based on our high demand and use of it.. i enjoy that priveledge, and still will drive around the mountain when it hits $3/gallon...
working from home is definately the wave of the future.. it's also a cure for the overpopulated cities, and would allow us to spread out a bit.. might need internet2 to accomodate an increase like that however..
Last edited by Skogen on April 11, 2005, 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
well gas does matter even if you work from home.
Almost every consumer product in the United States gets to market on the back of an 18 wheeler.
You order it online, it gets to your door on a UPS truck, and before it got on that truck it was on a plane.
Gas prices going up will essentially be a small tax on all consumer goods, and if it goes up enough, it will reduce consumer spending, which will negatively impact the economy, which means even companies that employ persons working from their homes may choose to downsize
Almost every consumer product in the United States gets to market on the back of an 18 wheeler.
You order it online, it gets to your door on a UPS truck, and before it got on that truck it was on a plane.
Gas prices going up will essentially be a small tax on all consumer goods, and if it goes up enough, it will reduce consumer spending, which will negatively impact the economy, which means even companies that employ persons working from their homes may choose to downsize
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Skogen
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same here.Voronwë wrote:i cant think of anything i use that doesnt involve plastic.
seriously.
Moreover....places ike wallmart depend on goods that were manufactured on the opposite side of the world using cheap, ridiculously cheap, labor. If the cost of transporting those goods to the US skyrockets, bye bye cheap walmart prices! Freighters use fuel oil that come from, yes, crude oil. from there onto either diesel powered trains or diesel powered trucks.
There's 3 modes of transport that depend on oil right there that overseas goods have to take to get onto the shelves of walmart.
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Fairweather Pure
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