Problem-

Mak · Post by **Mak** » March 3, 2005, 8:29 am

One of my computers went into hibernation mode but then would not come out when I tried to use it. So, I hit the power button, waited a few seconds, then turned it back on.

It started up- but nothing happened. It just makes the normal noise but nothing else happens.

Where should I start kicking it?

Spang · Post by **Spang** » March 3, 2005, 9:08 am

turn it off, unplug it, remove the processor, stick the processor back in the slot, plug it back in and turn it back on.

but don't do that until someone far more intelligent than me responds...that's what i would do though.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » March 3, 2005, 9:26 am

Endless possibilities... I'd start w/ trying a different PSU myself, from one of the other computers.

Mr Bacon · Post by **Mr Bacon** » March 3, 2005, 9:38 am

Turn the monitor on.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » March 3, 2005, 10:54 am

First off, Desktop or Laptop?

If it is a laptop remove the battery as well. Disconnect it from all power. Then plug it all back in and start it up. If you are able to get in I suggest going into your power settings and disabling Hibernation.

Mak · Post by **Mak** » March 3, 2005, 2:00 pm

It's a desktop.

Unplugged it and left it for awhile, still has the same thing happen. The unit seems to be getting power, but not sure if there's a problem there or not.

Probably going to have to break open the case, I guess- but later on though.

noel · Post by **noel** » March 3, 2005, 2:46 pm

Spang wrote:turn it off, unplug it, remove the processor, stick the processor back in the slot, plug it back in and turn it back on.

You would seriously remove your CPU as your first step in troubleshooting? Just so you know, in a properly cooled PC, the CPU is almost never the problem. Should save you some pain the next time you have an issue.

Sounds like motheboard to me, Mak. Alternatively it could be the controller onboard the harddrive.

Are you getting to the BIOS? I'm assuming you're not.

Are you getting to any of the Windows startup screens?

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » March 3, 2005, 3:13 pm

One quick thing would be to take out the ram, boot it up and listen. If you hear nothing (Beeping), its a MB issue I think.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » March 3, 2005, 4:57 pm

you wouldnt happen to be running Windows 98/ME would you?

its a bug that wont ever be fixed. upgrade.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » March 3, 2005, 9:57 pm

noel wrote:
Spang wrote:turn it off, unplug it, remove the processor, stick the processor back in the slot, plug it back in and turn it back on.
You would seriously remove your CPU as your first step in troubleshooting? Just so you know, in a properly cooled PC, the CPU is almost never the problem. Should save you some pain the next time you have an issue.

no, i wouldn't. but being that i am unable to speak to the person in real time, i went straight to that solution. i skipped all the minor steps like: "is it plugged in?" "is it turned on?", etc.

besides, who the fuck is gonna listen to me anyways?

noel · Post by **noel** » March 3, 2005, 10:24 pm

Spang wrote:
noel wrote:
Spang wrote:turn it off, unplug it, remove the processor, stick the processor back in the slot, plug it back in and turn it back on.
You would seriously remove your CPU as your first step in troubleshooting? Just so you know, in a properly cooled PC, the CPU is almost never the problem. Should save you some pain the next time you have an issue.
no, i wouldn't. but being that i am unable to speak to the person in real time, i went straight to that solution. i skipped all the minor steps like: "is it plugged in?" "is it turned on?", etc.

besides, who the fuck is gonna listen to me anyways?

Well, me for one. I mean, I'm not going to do what you said, but I did read your post to see what help you were offering, and (despite my shock) I attempted to provide you with some information that might be helpful for you.

Mak · Post by **Mak** » March 3, 2005, 10:27 pm

Thanks for all the tips so far, guys.

Here's the info on my system:

Link.

I'm still getting the same symptoms, to whit:

I turn on the power, everything seems to come on. I see the HD light come on, showing activity of some sort, but nothing else happens. After probably about 15 seconds the HD light goes out.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » March 4, 2005, 12:50 am

Hrmm.. sounds more like BIOS/motherboard as Noel said.

From what you said I'm assuming there are no POST beeps?

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 4, 2005, 1:11 am

ive had dead systems like this... depending on what it is, it could be impossible to troubleshoot enough to know. the thing to do is open it up on its side, pull the power... pull the memory out, plug & start.. bios screen? if not, put the memory back and remove any non essential items like nic/sound cards, unplug cds and hd's.. if its still the same, you can put that shit back and buy a new motherboard/processor combo.

Tenuvil · Post by **Tenuvil** » March 4, 2005, 2:09 am

what they said. Unplug everything but the video card and try to boot. Most likely it's some element of the system board.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » March 4, 2005, 3:09 am

noel wrote:
Spang wrote:
noel wrote:
Spang wrote:turn it off, unplug it, remove the processor, stick the processor back in the slot, plug it back in and turn it back on.
You would seriously remove your CPU as your first step in troubleshooting? Just so you know, in a properly cooled PC, the CPU is almost never the problem. Should save you some pain the next time you have an issue.
no, i wouldn't. but being that i am unable to speak to the person in real time, i went straight to that solution. i skipped all the minor steps like: "is it plugged in?" "is it turned on?", etc.

besides, who the fuck is gonna listen to me anyways?
Well, me for one. I mean, I'm not going to do what you said, but I did read your post to see what help you were offering, and (despite my shock) I attempted to provide you with some information that might be helpful for you.

i had a similar issue once about 8 years ago on my old PC, Dell.

i called the guys at Dell and their solution was the one i gave above. it fixed it. for the next 6 years i never had another issue with that PC until the fans in the power supply stopped moving. then i got a new PC.

Mak · Post by **Mak** » March 4, 2005, 5:06 am

Tenuvil wrote:what they said. Unplug everything but the video card and try to boot. Most likely it's some element of the system board.

So something like the NIC could be doing this? Theoretically?

noel · Post by **noel** » March 4, 2005, 2:57 pm

The idea behind removing everything, and placing things in one at a time is that you rule out that a single piece of your hardware has gone bad and started fucking the rest of your system in the ass.

You basically start out with just PS, CPU, MB, Video Card, Keyboard, and then start adding things and seeing when you can boot the PC. Once you're in the BIOS, your goal is to get to the Harddrive. Once you're there, your goal is to readd your hardware until it stops working. Then, if a piece of hardware like a NIC or a Soundcard etc. makes your PC stop working, you take it out to the garage and run it over with your car on the way to Fry's or CompUSA where you can replace it.

That said, from all you've said, I still think it's your motherboard.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » March 4, 2005, 3:06 pm

Dell is having a sale!

Mak · Post by **Mak** » March 4, 2005, 5:38 pm

Alrighty, disconnected all my peripherals and still no change.

Could it be bad RAM? Is there anyway to test the MB short of taking it out and taking it somewhere?

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » March 4, 2005, 5:39 pm

My suggestion was to take the RAM out. If you dont hear the 3 beeps, its most likely the MB that has the problem.

noel · Post by **noel** » March 4, 2005, 5:43 pm

What you could do... is buy a different uATX motherboard from somewhere, and then replace the current motherboard. You'd know fairly quickly if the motherboard was the issue this way. Ideally if you get it from somewhere that has a decent return policy, you can just return it if it doesn't work, and tell them a friend gave you a free CPU, but it's a socket 775 so it won't fit into the motherboard, and you didn't realize it ahead of time.

Any chance you could post a picture of the inside of the case that shows the motherboard (and is well lit so we can make things out) so I can make sure a standard motherboard will fit in your case?

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 4, 2005, 6:04 pm

You can remove the memory and turn it on... it would still be able to do it's BIOS routine, if it wasn't fried....

If you've disconnected -everything- cept the video card, and it still wont do -anything-... you have isolated the problem to the motherboard.

Mak · Post by **Mak** » March 4, 2005, 6:10 pm

Here's a pic of the MB w/ case-

Pic

(I took the vid card out to show more detail.)

Mak · Post by **Mak** » March 4, 2005, 6:18 pm

I removed the RAM and turned it on-

- I got no beeps of any kind (nor was I getting them earlier.)

- The HD light didn't come on like it was before.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 4, 2005, 6:25 pm

i do declare your motherboard to be fried

on the bright side, you got some use out of it... I bought a motherboard & processor from an IRC friend... waited 3 months before trying to use it, and it gave the same symptoms yours is.

noel · Post by **noel** » March 4, 2005, 6:29 pm

Mak wrote:Here's a pic of the MB w/ case-

Pic

(I took the vid card out to show more detail.)

That's a standard MB. You should be able to replace it, and it shouldn't cost you more than say... $100.

The link you posted earlier has specs on your motherboard.

If you get a new motherboard, make sure like... sockets are the same... yours is a 478. Memory speeds are roughly the same, stuff like that. Actually now would be an ideal time to pick up that tricked out case you've always wanted.

The nice thing about picking up a new case is that they're cheap as well (<$100) and you can build the new case/MB combo up while leaving the majority of your old PC together. i.e. you can insert new MB in new case, move over CPU and video card, and see if things work. That way you have a backing out point.

Mak · Post by **Mak** » March 4, 2005, 6:30 pm

Well. Shit.

What would be a reasonably price board to replace it with? How smart do I need to be to do the work myself?

Mak · Post by **Mak** » March 4, 2005, 6:31 pm

Thanks guys. I really appreciate the help.

noel · Post by **noel** » March 4, 2005, 6:44 pm

You'll need a phillips screwdriver, maybe some needlenose pliers, and umm... you'll need to pay attention to certain things. Generally, all motherboards will come with a manual that will tell you where to plug things in. A key point is that a lot of things you plug in to your motherboard need to be plugged in in a certain way. If you look (as an example) at your flat, gray cables that go to your harddrive and floppy drive, you'll notice that one side of them is either discolored, or colored red. On the motherboard, the IDE ports will be labelled and one side will have the number '1'. That's the side that the red colored side of your cable goes into. The CPU is the same way.

Your motherboard manual will tell you most of that, so if you follow the instructions, I think you can do it yourself.

The hardest part for you might be figuring out how to mount the motherboard to the case (if you buy a case). If you use the old one, you can probably use the existing mount screws. Mount screws are brass, and are threaded on the bottom with a hex-type top.

What I normally do is hold the motherboard up to the back wall of the case, and see where the holes line up.

Mak · Post by **Mak** » March 4, 2005, 6:52 pm

Would this work?

It looks almost exactly the same, and it seems to match most of the specs I need. I did notice that there doesn't seem to be enough nodes (?) along the bottom for the extra USB ports and the 5-1 card reader- or am I just not seeing them?

There's also this one. I assume either of those will get the job done?

Adelrune Argenti · Post by **Adelrune Argenti** » March 4, 2005, 6:55 pm

Sorry I didn't see this thread earlier. Looking at the photo you provided, it looks like you have an Asus board. The easiest thing to do is purchase an Asus P4C800-Deluxe board. (They are less than $200 now in most places) Remove all cable connections and peripheral boards. Unscrew the motherboard from the post mounts. You should have 9-10 screws to undo. Then carefully remove the motherboard from the case.

Place the MB on a static free work place. I have used cardboard boxes in a pinch. Flip the brackets on top of the CPU fan the other way for both of them. Next, take a flat head screwdriver and gently slide it down each corner of the plastic fan unit to lift the tabs out of the holes on the mounting posts. Do this gently and without too much force. You should then be able to remove the heat sink and fan unit from the processor. Then remove the processor from its socket. Be careful at this step as you don't want to drop it, bend any pins, or subject it to any static discharge.

Then put all these parts back, in reverse order into the new MB. Once you have the processor, heatsink and fan unit, and memory in the new board, pop out the existing faceplate from your old MB and insert the new one you got in the new MB box. Then position the new MB into the case by lining up the faceplate and inputs. Screw the mounting screws back in and reconnect all peripheral items and cables.

The last step is you will most likely need to do a repair installation of Windows XP once you have this all in. You will have changed enough parts that XP will want to redo parts of its installation. The good thing is this doesnt mean you reformat. You just do an installation over the existing one and then reapply all service packs and updates.

Hope this helps.

Adelrune Argenti · Post by **Adelrune Argenti** » March 4, 2005, 7:00 pm

noel wrote: If you look (as an example) at your flat, gray cables that go to your harddrive and floppy drive, you'll notice that one side of them is either discolored, or colored red. On the motherboard, the IDE ports will be labelled and one side will have the number '1'. That's the side that the red colored side of your cable goes into. The CPU is the same way.

A cool trick is always put the side with the white line on the ribbon cables nearest the power connection on DVD ROMs, floppies, CD-ROMS. That almost always works. Most new cables also have a slot missing on the side that connects to the MB, like the third hole on one side or the middle of the bottom row of holes. These line up perfectly on the MB if you look at it. Those connections on the MB are missing pins for those places.

noel · Post by **noel** » March 4, 2005, 7:48 pm

Adel, your second to last post was ownz0rship. Great detail, and well described.

I agree most new stuff is slotted so you can't screw up, but I wanted to try to describe it in the most basic way.

Mak, if you run into any problems, with your installation, try just taking another digital photo of whatever the issue is, and I'll try (I'm sure others will to) to check this post from time to time over the weekend, to make sure you're doing ok.

Adelrune Argenti · Post by **Adelrune Argenti** » March 4, 2005, 7:56 pm

Thanks, Noel. After building and maintaining about 90 PC's for the last year alone, I can almost do this in my sleep now.

noel · Post by **noel** » March 4, 2005, 8:04 pm

Is your avatar DJ Tiesto?

Mak · Post by **Mak** » March 4, 2005, 8:09 pm

What does this screw do? It seems to be one of the ones holding the board to the case, but I don't have a screwdriver that will fit it. I can't seem to find anything else holding it down.

Adelrune, thanks for the posting- it scared the crap out of me but will be invaluable I think. You don't live in the Tucson/Phoenix area do you?

PS- I've heard a couple tunes by DJ Tiesto- he seems pretty cool!

Adelrune Argenti · Post by **Adelrune Argenti** » March 4, 2005, 8:12 pm

That looks like a mounting screw. Do you have about 9 of them all around the board and one in the middle?

Yes it is Tiesto as my avatar. Sadly, I have yet to see him live. However, I am going to Crystal Method again in April.

Mak · Post by **Mak** » March 4, 2005, 8:20 pm

I've taken 7 other screws out- they're all normal looking and I can use a regular screwdriver to get them. This one is different than the others.

noel · Post by **noel** » March 4, 2005, 8:26 pm

Mak wrote:I've taken 7 other screws out- they're all normal looking and I can use a regular screwdriver to get them. This one is different than the others.

Looks like you just have to squeeze it together... perhaps with some needlenose pliers, and perhaps from the other side. That's one of the reasons I was kinda thinking a new case might be nice. OEM manufacturers generally do funky shit that doesn't happen if you build it yourself.

Good luck with the pliers!

Mak · Post by **Mak** » March 4, 2005, 8:50 pm

That was it exactly- thanks!

Now to get a new one. I'll bump this thread when I'm ready to start dealing with that. Might be awhile since I'm going to want a couple of days off in a row to devote to this, I think.

Thanks for all the help!

PS- Can I take the board into some place like Comp USA and get it tested?

noel · Post by **noel** » March 4, 2005, 8:54 pm

I think so... I seriously don't want to come off like an elitist here, but I've always taken care of it myself so I really have no idea what kind of services they offer, and how good they are.

I think Best Buy offers some troubleshooting, so you could take it there and have them look at it. I'd be willing to bet a dollar that they'll tell you your MB is bad though.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » March 5, 2005, 6:32 pm

heh I had an interesting case not too long ago.. bought a new CPU but waited until I finally got new cooling to install it.. the CPU was bad and fried my MB.. I did not think it was the CPU so it fried my replacement board as well!

I was not happy

Janx · Post by **Janx** » March 5, 2005, 10:55 pm

Try deleting the hybernation file? Used to be a bug that would cause that to happen when you hybernated. Deleting the file fixed it.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » March 5, 2005, 11:39 pm

did you try removing the processor, sticking it back in and booting up the PC?

doing that costs you nothing and it may work!

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 5, 2005, 11:54 pm

Here is one more thing to do before you give up hope...

Remove the battery. the flat quarter shaped one. leave it out for a minute, put it back in, and try booting the pc. this has fixed some pc's in the past.

while i don't see the benefit in removing the processor, it cant hurt, unless you break it

Soreali · Post by **Soreali** » March 6, 2005, 4:40 pm

Mak wrote: PS- Can I take the board into some place like Comp USA and get it tested?

I'm pretty sure you can, but I wouldn't recommend it.. CompUsa normally charges 100 bucks just to run diagnostics and I think BestBuy is something around 80 or so.. It's probably cheaper to just buy the new MB and not worry about it.. If you're gonna pay them 100 bucks to tell you it's fried and you still have to get a new MB, dont you think it'd be worth savin the cash?

From all the awesome input you've gotten from Noel and Adel, I'd have to agree that it seems the board is fried.. Might as well get a new one.

As far as putting in the new one, you should be able to do it in a couple of hours.. When I built my system, I think it took me all of two hours to get it up and running.. Just make sure you set all the jumpers correctly.

Hope some of this info helps

Adelrune Argenti · Post by **Adelrune Argenti** » March 7, 2005, 5:04 pm

For most standard configs nowadays, all of the jumpers can be left at factory default and you should be ok. I rarely change jumpers unless I am doing something out of the ordinary.