I Know What You Cut This Winter

What do you think about the world?
User avatar
Akaran_D
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4151
Joined: July 3, 2002, 2:38 pm
Location: Somewhere in my head...
Contact:

I Know What You Cut This Winter

Post by Akaran_D »

or: The Bush Budget Plan

http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/02/ ... index.html
WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush's budget will propose slashing grants to local law enforcement agencies and cutting spending for environmental protection, American Indian schools and home-heating aid for the poor, The Associated Press learned Saturday.

Bush molded the roughly $2.5 trillion spending plan for 2006 as a response to a string of record federal deficits, and is sends it to Congress on Monday.

The budget, the toughest he has written since entering the White House four years ago, seeks about half the increase for school districts in low-income communities he requested last year and a slight reduction for the National Park Service.

Many proposals face an unclear fate in Congress, where members of both parties are sure to defend favorite initiatives. Democrats blame the cuts on the tax reductions Bush has enacted and say that other items his budget omits -- a Social Security overhaul and costs for wars in Iraq and Afghanistan -- will only make matters worse.

"What it will lead to is growing pressure for draconian cuts," Sen. Kent Conrad of North Dakota, the Senate Budget Committee's top Democrat, said Saturday. "It's inescapable, the course he's led us on, whether it's this year or next year, is for very, very heavy cuts."

Bush has said his budget will assemble federal resources for war, domestic security and other priorities and cull inefficient or redundant programs. Administration officials have said he will hold overall nondefense spending -- excepting domestic security -- to less than next year's expected 2.3 percent increase in inflation, meaning the programs will lose purchasing power.

"I stand with the president that we need to eliminate wasteful spending and we need to look through all the programs," said House Budget Committee Chairman Jim Nussle, R-Iowa. "There's no question that's not the easiest thing to do in Washington."

The details obtained Saturday are the latest in a budget that will also seek savings from programs ranging from Amtrak and farmers' subsidies to Medicaid, the federal-state health program for the poor and disabled.

According to figures obtained by the AP, Bush would slice a $600 million grant program for local police agencies to $60 million next year. Grants to local firefighters, for which Congress provided $715 million this year, would fall to $500 million.

He would eliminate the $300 million the government gives to states for incarcerating illegal aliens who commit crimes. It's a proposal he has made in the past and one that Congress has ignored. Also gone would be assistance for police departments to improve technology and their ability to communicate with other agencies.

The Environmental Protection Agency's $8.1 billion would drop by $450 million, or about 6 percent, with most of the reductions coming in water programs and projects won by lawmakers for their home districts.

The Bureau of Indians Affairs would be sliced by $100 million to $2.2 billion. The reduction would come almost entirely from the agency's effort to build more schools.

The $2.2 billion program that provides low-income people -- in large part the elderly -- with home-heating aid would be cut to $2 billion. Sen. Charles Schumer, D-New York, said the reduction would be "wrong-headed an inappropriate," especially with this season's jump in oil prices.

White House budget office spokesman Chad Kolton said Bush has added hundreds of millions of dollars to the program since taking office and said his budget will provide "adequate resources to make sure we can assist low-income Americans."

The park service's budget would drop nearly 3 percent to $2.2 billion, largely due to a reduction in its construction account.

Several cultural agencies will get about the same as this year's levels, including the Smithsonian Institution and the national endowments for the arts and humanities, which distribute money to local groups.

Even on the plus side, Bush's budget will show constraint compared with previous years. That in part reflects his pledge to cut last year's projected $521 billion in half by 2009. One lawmaker said the budget will estimate that year's shortfall at about $230 billion -- well under the record $427 billion it will project for 2005.

Bush will seek about 5 percent more, or about $600 million, for the $12.8 billion program for low-income area school districts. Last year, he requested a $1 billion increase.

Defense Department documents obtained Friday show the Pentagon's budget would grow by 4.8 percent to $419.3 billion -- $3.4 billion less than he planned to seek for 2006 a year ago.

Other areas would fare better.

The Coast Guard -- part of the Homeland Security Department -- will get $8.1 billion, $600 million over this year. Included will be a healthy increase for its plans to buy more oceangoing vessels, a boon to the new chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee, Sen. Thad Cochran, R-Mississippi, in whose state many of the ships are built.

Community health centers would grow to over $2 billion, an increase of $304 million, or almost 18 percent, over this year. Bush said he wants to every poor county to have one of the centers, which are widely used by the poor.
Akaran of Mistmoore, formerly Akaran of Veeshan
I know I'm good at what I do, but I know I'm not the best.
But I guess that on the other hand, I could be like the rest.
Lynks
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2774
Joined: September 30, 2002, 6:58 pm
XBL Gamertag: launchpad1979
Location: Sudbury, Ontario

Post by Lynks »

Nothing says "thank you" to policemen and firefighters more than cutting hundreds of millions of dollars from them.
User avatar
Animalor
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5902
Joined: July 8, 2002, 12:03 pm
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: Anirask
PSN ID: Anirask
Location: Canada

Post by Animalor »

Noone Left Behind - At least not from schools where rich white kids go.
User avatar
Aruman
Almost 1337
Almost 1337
Posts: 683
Joined: July 3, 2002, 8:53 pm

Post by Aruman »

Lynks wrote:Nothing says "thank you" to policemen and firefighters more than cutting hundreds of millions of dollars from them.
Yes, this might hurt them a little, but the States need to be more responsible for their budgets.

I am sure there is quite a bit of bloat in many state budgets also that can be trimmed/reallocated to cover whatever is lost due to these reductions.
User avatar
Aruman
Almost 1337
Almost 1337
Posts: 683
Joined: July 3, 2002, 8:53 pm

Post by Aruman »

Animalor wrote:Noone Left Behind - At least not from schools where rich white kids go.
I guess you missed this:
Bush will seek about 5 percent more, or about $600 million, for the $12.8 billion program for low-income area school districts. Last year, he requested a $1 billion increase.
User avatar
Xzion
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2567
Joined: September 22, 2002, 7:36 pm

Post by Xzion »

Aruman wrote:
Lynks wrote:Nothing says "thank you" to policemen and firefighters more than cutting hundreds of millions of dollars from them.
Yes, this might hurt them a little, but the States need to be more responsible for their budgets.

I am sure there is quite a bit of bloat in many state budgets also that can be trimmed/reallocated to cover whatever is lost due to these reductions.
I agree in this aspect, these should be state run, but then again increasing spending for all of his other worthless programs such as "faith based initiatives" and a "missile defense system" that will never work make him worse for government spending then almost any liberal

bush is truly a president that stands for "big government" and more centralized power,maybe more then any president so far in our lifetimes. I dont see how some of these fiscal conservatives havnt caught on yet
-xzionis human mage on mannoroth
-zeltharath tauren shaman on wildhammer
User avatar
Avestan
Almost 1337
Almost 1337
Posts: 905
Joined: July 4, 2002, 12:45 am
Location: Palo Alto, CA

Post by Avestan »

do you want deficits, or do you want to cut shit. Pick one.
User avatar
Fash
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4147
Joined: July 10, 2002, 2:26 am
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: sylblaydis
Location: A Secure Location

Post by Fash »

On the contrary Xzion.... two things.

Faith Based Initiatives is a small program that allows them to qualify for the normal program that non-profit organizations which help people join to get government assistance. It's not a huge deal, or a lot of extra money percentage-wide to the program.

Missile Defense Shield... I think we're further along in this area than we allow the media to find out... but who knows.. i think it was and still is important to work towards, but i prefer allowing groups of private organizations to work at things like they are doing with the replacement space shuttle contract, which could cost more than the missle shield.
Fash

--
Naivety is dangerous.
User avatar
nobody
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1205
Joined: April 2, 2004, 8:37 pm
Location: neither here nor there
Contact:

Post by nobody »

missle defense is NOT stupid, you are if you want someone to point a nuke at your country and not be able to defend yourself. if you've studied the program you would realize that it has real potential and is not a waste of time. of course the talking heads never told you that so you wouldn't know.
My goal is to live forever. So far so good.
The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. - Benjamin Franklin

خودتان را بگای
User avatar
Fash
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4147
Joined: July 10, 2002, 2:26 am
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: sylblaydis
Location: A Secure Location

Post by Fash »

Xzion talked about big government with faith based initiatives and missle shields... whose goals serve only to protect and help.... i think big government provides direct aid to your police force where it can be abused, and disqualifies faith-based groups from aid in helping others.
Fash

--
Naivety is dangerous.
User avatar
Drolgin Steingrinder
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 3510
Joined: July 3, 2002, 5:28 pm
Gender: Male
PSN ID: Drolgin
Location: Århus, Denmark

Post by Drolgin Steingrinder »

I clicked on this thread fully expecting it to be about genitalial grooming. Man, I'm disappointed now.
IT'S HARD TO PUT YOUR FINGER ON IT; SOMETHING IS WRONG
I'M LIKE THE UNCLE WHO HUGGED YOU A LITTLE TOO LONG
User avatar
Animale
Almost 1337
Almost 1337
Posts: 598
Joined: July 3, 2002, 2:45 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Raleigh

Post by Animale »

Missile defence is an impossible pipe dream. The "successes" that the system has had in testing were fabricated. It is too easy to fool. It is nearly impossible to hit the target. It costs hundreds of billions of dollars.

Animale
Animale Vicioso
64 Gnome Enchanter
<retired>
60 Undead Mage
Hyjal <retired>
User avatar
nobody
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1205
Joined: April 2, 2004, 8:37 pm
Location: neither here nor there
Contact:

Post by nobody »

if you hit the target on it's way up instead of down then it's not that hard.
My goal is to live forever. So far so good.
The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. - Benjamin Franklin

خودتان را بگای
User avatar
Winnow
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 27728
Joined: July 5, 2002, 1:56 pm
Location: A Special Place in Hell

Post by Winnow »

Animale wrote:Missile defence is an impossible pipe dream. The "successes" that the system has had in testing were fabricated. It is too easy to fool. It is nearly impossible to hit the target. It costs hundreds of billions of dollars.

Animale
I agree mostly. Like other high tech projects (NASA missions to the moon), missile defense will spin off plenty of useful technology that can be used on other things.

I don't think missile defense makes sense and also think that even if it is successful, whoever it is with ill intent toward the U.S. would probably be smart enough to come up with another means of doing us harm.
User avatar
miir
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 11501
Joined: July 3, 2002, 3:06 pm
XBL Gamertag: miir1
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Post by miir »

nobody wrote:missle defense is NOT stupid, you are if you want someone to point a nuke at your country and not be able to defend yourself. if you've studied the program you would realize that it has real potential and is not a waste of time. of course the talking heads never told you that so you wouldn't know.
Missle defense is a joke.
Feel free to link some articles that show that it capable of an acceptable success rate.

Also, would negotiation not be a preferable course of action then letting US foreign affairs degenerate into another 'cold war' type situation? I wasn't aware of any countries or organizations that are capable of launching an ICBM nuke at North America.
I've got 99 problems and I'm not dealing with any of them - Lay-Z
Fairweather Pure
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8509
Joined: July 3, 2002, 1:06 pm
XBL Gamertag: SillyEskimo

Post by Fairweather Pure »

It's costing American taxpayers over 5 Billion dollars a month for operating costs in Iraq. Bush is not making strong and direct approaches to our rising National Debt. He is it's largest contributor by an unbelievable and record setting margin.
User avatar
Niffoni
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1318
Joined: February 18, 2003, 12:53 pm
Gender: Mangina
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia

Post by Niffoni »

Does anyone remember that board game "Mousetrap"? Remember trying to get the mousetrap to work? How it would fail halfway through 9 out of 10 times? Okay. Now imagine that every time it fails, a nuclear missile destroys civilization as we know it.

Oh, and you paid hundreds of billions of dollars for the game.

But it might lead the the invention of Tang!
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all. - Douglas Adams
Hesten
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2620
Joined: April 29, 2003, 3:50 pm

Post by Hesten »

And im still happy im not american.
"Terrorism is the war of the poor, and war is the terrorism of the rich"
User avatar
nobody
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1205
Joined: April 2, 2004, 8:37 pm
Location: neither here nor there
Contact:

Post by nobody »

miir wrote:
nobody wrote:missle defense is NOT stupid, you are if you want someone to point a nuke at your country and not be able to defend yourself. if you've studied the program you would realize that it has real potential and is not a waste of time. of course the talking heads never told you that so you wouldn't know.
Missle defense is a joke.
Feel free to link some articles that show that it capable of an acceptable success rate.

Also, would negotiation not be a preferable course of action then letting US foreign affairs degenerate into another 'cold war' type situation? I wasn't aware of any countries or organizations that are capable of launching an ICBM nuke at North America.
so we should wait until north korea and/or iran are capable of hitting us to develope a defense? russia is concerned about our ability to shoot their missles down why?

here are some articles about missle defense just for educating the masses. i think they are "fair and balanced"

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/307/1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Missile_Defense

it's not perfect but if you could prevent nuclear missles from being fired at your home wouldn't you?
My goal is to live forever. So far so good.
The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. - Benjamin Franklin

خودتان را بگای
User avatar
Rivera Bladestrike
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1275
Joined: September 15, 2002, 4:55 pm

Post by Rivera Bladestrike »

Iran would never be able to hit any North American locations. Thats completely on the other side of the planet. North Korea could only hope to hit locations in California, which wouldn't bother me.
My name is (removed to protect dolphinlovers)

Rivera / Shiezer - EQ (Retired)

What I Am Listening To
User avatar
miir
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 11501
Joined: July 3, 2002, 3:06 pm
XBL Gamertag: miir1
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Post by miir »

Feel free to link some articles that show that it capable of an acceptable success rate.

nobody wrote:it's not perfect but if you could prevent nuclear missles from being fired at your home wouldn't you?
Diplomacy and negotiaion would be a far more effective means of preveting such an event...
I've got 99 problems and I'm not dealing with any of them - Lay-Z
User avatar
Zaelath
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4621
Joined: April 11, 2003, 5:53 am
Location: Canberra

Post by Zaelath »

Avestan wrote:do you want deficits, or do you want to cut shit. Pick one.
Ahahaha, yeah, that's it. You give out massive tax breaks to your buddies, then you fuck the poor and remove public services to pay back the deficit! Woo! Justify!!

Fucking pathetic.
May 2003 - "Mission Accomplished"
June 2005 - "The mission isn't easy, and it will not be accomplished overnight"
-- G W Bush, freelance writer for The Daily Show.
User avatar
Kylere
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 3354
Joined: July 3, 2002, 6:26 pm
Location: Flint, Michigan

Post by Kylere »

I work for Fire/Police/911. The federal impact on their budget in the last 12 months was zero. A city with 110k pop saw a total of about 100grand in federal grants, while the total Fire Police 911 budget was around 30 MILLION. That was the best year for federal money since 1991.

The worst 2 Presidents in terms of budgets that assisted the first responders in this country since 1970 are James Carter and William Clinton.
She Dreams in Digital
\"Led Zeppelin taught an entire generation of young men how to make love, if they just listen\"- Michael Reed(2005)
User avatar
Xzion
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2567
Joined: September 22, 2002, 7:36 pm

Post by Xzion »

Fash wrote:Xzion talked about big government with faith based initiatives and missle shields... whose goals serve only to protect and help.... i think big government provides direct aid to your police force where it can be abused, and disqualifies faith-based groups from aid in helping others.
heh, big government is supposed to exsist to serve, protect and help...and i believe "faith based initiatives" only hurt

The entire religion thing kicked in again a few weeks ago when my little sister started a presbyterian CCD program. One of the 1st things i heard her mom say when she was reviewing a book when i was over was "you see, theres only one god, and his name isnt allah" in a sarcastic tone,

I know this will sound a little far fetched, but a lot of these established religions (Christian or otherwise) are subliminally teaching discrimination toward other faiths...even though i was only around 4 or 5, when my grandparents did the same thing to me with Catholicism and i was told about other religions and how they are false...my 1st response was "well, why dont we just go and kill them all?"

I another little cousin of mine is jewish (although they don’t really pratice it) and had the same reaction when he spoke out and actually said “fuck the Christians” at age 11

Its just scary that in a modern day in age this out dated mythology continues to grow and the government actually supports it...im not speaking against the "good" christians or otherwise who hold there personal faith and just use religion for guidance, but for the majority of the population that just somehow gains nothing but discrimination and hatred in one form or another out of this “faith”
-xzionis human mage on mannoroth
-zeltharath tauren shaman on wildhammer
User avatar
Fash
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4147
Joined: July 10, 2002, 2:26 am
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: sylblaydis
Location: A Secure Location

Post by Fash »

what you're missing is that it's not to spread the faith.. it's for shelters and food for homeless people.. churches and other faith groups do these things all over, and they don't push their religion on the homeless, they're only trying to help.

i dislike religion entirely, but im not against them getting the government assistance for these programs that ANY OTHER NON PROFIT PUBLIC SUPPORT ORGANIZATION CAN GET.
Fash

--
Naivety is dangerous.
User avatar
Xorian
Gets Around
Gets Around
Posts: 242
Joined: July 3, 2002, 6:07 pm

Post by Xorian »

he worst 2 Presidents in terms of budgets that assisted the first responders in this country since 1970 are James Carter and William Clinton
But, didnt Bill manage to have a decent state budget at the end of his mandat ?
Xorian the (sometimes) drunken ench

"They were crying when their sons left, God is wearing black, He's gone so far to find no hope, He's never coming back"
User avatar
Lohrno
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2416
Joined: July 6, 2002, 4:58 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Post by Lohrno »

Avestan wrote:do you want deficits, or do you want to cut shit. Pick one.
The problem here is the priorities are all fucked up. I want to cut military shit and spend it on education. If we pulled our troops back and spent 1/3 on the military we do now and the rest on good programs, we'd have a safer, more secure and happier society to live in.
User avatar
Akaran_D
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4151
Joined: July 3, 2002, 2:38 pm
Location: Somewhere in my head...
Contact:

Post by Akaran_D »

How does cutting military funding equate to a safer country?
Akaran of Mistmoore, formerly Akaran of Veeshan
I know I'm good at what I do, but I know I'm not the best.
But I guess that on the other hand, I could be like the rest.
User avatar
Chidoro
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 3428
Joined: July 3, 2002, 6:45 pm

Post by Chidoro »

I'm not sure but funding pet military projects doesn't necessarily make us safer either.

This proposed budget is so far gone in it's vision that it's not even worth arguing about it
User avatar
Cartalas
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4364
Joined: July 3, 2002, 2:39 pm
Location: Kyoukan's Mouth

Post by Cartalas »

miir wrote:
nobody wrote:missle defense is NOT stupid, you are if you want someone to point a nuke at your country and not be able to defend yourself. if you've studied the program you would realize that it has real potential and is not a waste of time. of course the talking heads never told you that so you wouldn't know.
Missle defense is a joke.
Feel free to link some articles that show that it capable of an acceptable success rate.

Also, would negotiation not be a preferable course of action then letting US foreign affairs degenerate into another 'cold war' type situation? I wasn't aware of any countries or organizations that are capable of launching an ICBM nuke at North America.

So was putting a man on the moon, breaking the sound barrier, and cloning a sheep but keep it up my narrow minded friend.
User avatar
Nick
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5711
Joined: July 4, 2002, 3:45 pm

Post by Nick »

Yeah because it's not like you don't spend enough already Akaran.
User avatar
Lohrno
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2416
Joined: July 6, 2002, 4:58 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Post by Lohrno »

Akaran_D wrote:How does cutting military funding equate to a safer country?
If we pulled our troops back it would be. And 1/3 of what we spend now is a shitload of money for an army not engaged in war...
User avatar
Cartalas
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4364
Joined: July 3, 2002, 2:39 pm
Location: Kyoukan's Mouth

Post by Cartalas »

Lohrno wrote:
Akaran_D wrote:How does cutting military funding equate to a safer country?
If we pulled our troops back it would be. And 1/3 of what we spend now is a shitload of money for an army not engaged in war...
Now you want us to pull our troops back before the job is done,
Jesus Christ make up your minds.
User avatar
miir
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 11501
Joined: July 3, 2002, 3:06 pm
XBL Gamertag: miir1
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Post by miir »

Akaran_D wrote:How does cutting military funding equate to a safer country?
How does spending 10 billion dollars a year on a 'destined for failure' system that is designed to protect against a threat which doesn't exist, make your country safer?

Does it make your country safer when a 'minor glitch' can render the system completely useless?
I've got 99 problems and I'm not dealing with any of them - Lay-Z
User avatar
Lohrno
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2416
Joined: July 6, 2002, 4:58 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Post by Lohrno »

miir wrote:
Akaran_D wrote: How does spending 10 billion dollars a year on a 'destined for failure' system that is designed to protect against a threat which doesn't exist, make your country safer?

Does it make your country safer when a 'minor glitch' can render the system completely useless?
Or deploying troops overseas at a cost of millions a day for no good reason...I mean we're spending money AND making things more dangerous..
Last edited by Lohrno on February 7, 2005, 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Voronwë
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 7176
Joined: July 3, 2002, 12:57 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Post by Voronwë »

his last budget he asked for like 63 programs to be cut, and 4 got cut.

Bush has yet to Veto ANY appropriations bill. Yet to veto ANY budget from Congress. I'm not sure he's vetoed anything yet. So, the moral of the story is that its hard to say what is really in danger.

i agree with Bill Schneider's analysis that it seems hard to suggest this is a serious budget when the following substantial items are not in it:

1. Iraq/ Afghanistan military operations
2. cost of making tax cuts permanent (decreased revenue)
3. cost of social security privatization
User avatar
Marbus
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 2378
Joined: July 4, 2002, 2:21 am
Contact:

Post by Marbus »

This is just a joke budget from a joke president...
Image
User avatar
Akaran_D
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4151
Joined: July 3, 2002, 2:38 pm
Location: Somewhere in my head...
Contact:

Post by Akaran_D »

Does it make you feel better that a 'minor glitch' in your car can cause it to stop working while going at over 80mph, that a 'minor glitch' in a piece of medical equipment can stop critical fluids from being pumped, or that a 'minor glitch' at a power plant can lead to hundreds of thousands of people losing power?

I'm not disagreeing with you that as it is, the system is fairly unstable and unworkable. It should be replaed, but the ideal behind it should not. Cut the funding for it and replace it with one that works.
Akaran of Mistmoore, formerly Akaran of Veeshan
I know I'm good at what I do, but I know I'm not the best.
But I guess that on the other hand, I could be like the rest.
User avatar
miir
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 11501
Joined: July 3, 2002, 3:06 pm
XBL Gamertag: miir1
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Post by miir »

Does it make you feel better that a 'minor glitch' in your car can cause it to stop working while going at over 80mph
Mechanical failures are not 'minor glitches'. Also, cars do not cost hundreds of billions of dollars.

a 'minor glitch' in a piece of medical equipment can stop critical fluids from being pumped
A major failure would have to happen before 'critical' medical equipment and its redundant backups stop working. Equipment like that is manufactured to such outrageously high standards that 'glitches' causing total failure simply do not happen.

or that a 'minor glitch' at a power plant can lead to hundreds of thousands of people losing power?
That was a massive power grid failure, not a 'minor glitch'.




By the way, it was a 'senior pentagon official' who blamed the complete failure of the test on a 'minor glitch'. His words, not mine.

the system is fairly unstable and unworkable
Number of successful tests in the 5+ year history of the missle defense program... zero.

It should be replaed, but the ideal behind it should not. Cut the funding for it and replace it with one that works.
So just shitcan the 50+ billion that has been spent on the program so far and direct future funds into another harebrained pipedream missle defense?


Wouldn't you rather see even a fraction of those billions piped into programs that would reduce the need for missle defense? With better surveilance and intelligence it would be near impossible to purchase/construct an ICBM and build a launching facility that is close enough to US without being detected. And maybe pipe some of that money into improving foreign policy programs.. hell I dunno... anything would be lesser waste of money than this ridiculous missle defense system.
I've got 99 problems and I'm not dealing with any of them - Lay-Z
User avatar
Acies
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1233
Joined: July 30, 2002, 10:55 pm
Location: The Holy city of Antioch

Post by Acies »

Actually, about two years ago, the atmospheric conditions were right for Moonshae and I to view a bright blue glowing object high in the stratosphere. About one minute after we spotted it and identified it, it was destroyed. The press via the military confirmed it was an unarmed ICBM that was used in a defense test and destroyed.

I am convinced the system can work, mostly because I saw it. Still, perhaps an increase in taxes of the wealthy would enable the country to benefit more. Perhaps cutting funding from the needy and the people who ensure our safety is not the way to go.
Bujinkan is teh win!
Voronwë
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 7176
Joined: July 3, 2002, 12:57 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Post by Voronwë »

Well i'm skeptical considering in tests where they let the media in to observe the Interceptor missile missed the target even though it basically broadcast its location.
User avatar
nobody
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1205
Joined: April 2, 2004, 8:37 pm
Location: neither here nor there
Contact:

Post by nobody »

it's not like this is rocket science! oh wait...
My goal is to live forever. So far so good.
The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. - Benjamin Franklin

خودتان را بگای
User avatar
Fash
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 4147
Joined: July 10, 2002, 2:26 am
Gender: Male
XBL Gamertag: sylblaydis
Location: A Secure Location

Post by Fash »

I believe there is a bit of subterfuge involved in the way classified stuff is portrayed to the media.. as i said before, i think we are further along than we are told.

technology is a wonderful thing... i would like to see a republican candidate come out pushing technology instead of freedom. what i want is nationwide wireless and a push towards paperless decentralization of the workforce... allowing people to work and pay taxes for companies in other states from anywhere... government grants to buy a computer for low income people..

but hey im just stoned and rambling.
Fash

--
Naivety is dangerous.
User avatar
Nick
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 5711
Joined: July 4, 2002, 3:45 pm

Post by Nick »

At least a 10 year gap, if not more Fash.

Of course, again I am also stoned and rambling, but I think your right.
Rekaar.
Almost 1337
Almost 1337
Posts: 689
Joined: July 18, 2002, 8:44 pm
Contact:

Post by Rekaar. »

Acies wrote:Still, perhaps an increase in taxes of the wealthy would enable the country to benefit more. Perhaps cutting funding from the needy and the people who ensure our safety is not the way to go.
Move to Canada if you love that idea so much. I much prefer keeping rich people in the country to provide the jobs so people can complain about how rough their lives are =p
Time makes more converts than reason. - Thomas Paine
User avatar
Animale
Almost 1337
Almost 1337
Posts: 598
Joined: July 3, 2002, 2:45 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Raleigh

Post by Animale »

I'll say it again... missile defense is a sham that doesn't work. In the 1 successful "test" that was announced to the media, it was later found that the target had a homing beacon for the destructor to target. Thus, the test was only seeing if the interceptor had the ability to actually hit the targets, when perfectly guided by a homing beacon. A reasonable test, but nowhere near the success that was touted in the media.

Beyond the fact that defending against a limited missile strike is misplacing our defense funds in a massive way. What country in their right mind, when faced with assured destruction, would choose to launch a tracable missile, when they could just use a "suitcase nuke" or something similar that would be nearly untracable. That's what we need to be aware of and try to prevent, in my opinion.

Animale
Animale Vicioso
64 Gnome Enchanter
<retired>
60 Undead Mage
Hyjal <retired>
Voronwë
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 7176
Joined: July 3, 2002, 12:57 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Post by Voronwë »

anybody hear that idiot Baltimore mayor who compared the tax cuts to 9/11?
User avatar
Thess
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1036
Joined: July 4, 2002, 1:34 am
Location: Connecticut

Post by Thess »

Xzion wrote:
Aruman wrote:
Lynks wrote:Nothing says "thank you" to policemen and firefighters more than cutting hundreds of millions of dollars from them.
Yes, this might hurt them a little, but the States need to be more responsible for their budgets.

I am sure there is quite a bit of bloat in many state budgets also that can be trimmed/reallocated to cover whatever is lost due to these reductions.
I agree in this aspect, these should be state run, but then again increasing spending for all of his other worthless programs such as "faith based initiatives" and a "missile defense system" that will never work make him worse for government spending then almost any liberal

bush is truly a president that stands for "big government" and more centralized power,maybe more then any president so far in our lifetimes. I dont see how some of these fiscal conservatives havnt caught on yet
Star wars!11!!!
User avatar
masteen
Super Poster!
Super Poster!
Posts: 8197
Joined: July 3, 2002, 12:40 pm
Gender: Mangina
Location: Florida
Contact:

Post by masteen »

Record deficits and we're still shelling out billions every year for corporate welfare and bullshit farm subsidies that only benefit... YOU GUESSED IT, CORPORATE FARMS!

Fucking neocons are pissing me off. This latest missile defense program is fucking pointless. We'd be better off developing orbital ICBM platforms. At least those fucking WORK.
"There is at least as much need to curb the cruel greed and arrogance of part of the world of capital, to curb the cruel greed and violence of part of the world of labor, as to check a cruel and unhealthy militarism in international relationships." -Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
nobody
Way too much time!
Way too much time!
Posts: 1205
Joined: April 2, 2004, 8:37 pm
Location: neither here nor there
Contact:

Post by nobody »

bush proposed cutting farm subsidies buy 100,000 a year per farmer. he said in a speach recently that there is no reason a farmer should be making more than 250,000 dollars from subsidies.
My goal is to live forever. So far so good.
The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. - Benjamin Franklin

خودتان را بگای
Post Reply