Class balance?

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » February 4, 2005, 11:39 am

I've seen some folks complaining about WoW class balance, but no specifics other than spell stacking issues. None of the classes seem "broken" to me, but I've only played 2 to any extent.

What's the (real or percieved) problem?

archeiron · Post by **archeiron** » February 4, 2005, 11:50 am

There is an issue with raid level content wherein the melee classes stack very well, but the caster classes do not. This comes as a results of the limited number of debuff slots that may be filled on raid bosses. The limit is current far too low. As a result, the damage of ten warlocks, for example, does not scale linearly (10x the DPS of one warlock) whereas the damage output of ten rogues would scale much better.

Sumdaor · Post by **Sumdaor** » February 4, 2005, 12:20 pm

completely off-topic, but the debuff issue brings back the huge whine necro's in EQ once had about limited debuff slots on raid content......Oh the memories /tear

Drolgin Steingrinder · February 4, 2005, 2:55 pm

There's also an issue with the race-specific spells, particularly the Dorf Priest ones.

eOmniz · Post by **eOmniz** » February 4, 2005, 7:37 pm

All the class balance whines mostly only apply to PVP.

Everyone complains about Paladins being gods, but I have insanely low dps and kill shit much slower than everyone else (except undead, in which case I can kill shit about as fast as a dual wielding warrior!). The price I pay I suppose.

Shaman complaints as well, thats mostly because of frost shock and pvp again though.

In PVE I'd say classes are pretty balanced besides there not being enough priests and AE dmg being overneeded in some instances (and the mentioned debuff slot shit). Warriors who complain about a lack of use in PVE arent using their abilities to the fullest imo. Demoralizing shout helps immensely with AEing, intimidating shout is useful in sooooo many boss fights, etc.

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » February 4, 2005, 8:24 pm

Paladins need swift and merciless sodomization with the nerf bat.

Proctus · Post by **Proctus** » February 4, 2005, 9:50 pm

Drolgin Steingrinder wrote:There's also an issue with the race-specific spells, particularly the Dorf Priest ones.

Our Self Heal?

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » February 5, 2005, 1:19 am

Lalanae wrote:Paladins need swift and merciless sodomization with the nerf bat.

Oh such sweet words.

gogo Team Rogue!

Janx · Post by **Janx** » February 5, 2005, 12:30 pm

When a paladin can run into a horde town (TM for example) have 5 level 60's beating on him, and him being able to get out alive and well..yeah something needs to be done. I really dont care how "slow" they kill shit. I've had paladins hit my hunter (level 60) for well over 300+ dmg non crit. Cry, river.

Cotto · Post by **Cotto** » February 5, 2005, 2:16 pm

Fucking priests! Able to DoT you to hell so you die within 3 seconds after respawning at the iron deposit he's sitting ontop of and wont let you mine...fuckers...

Damiarch · Post by **Damiarch** » February 6, 2005, 10:09 pm

Paladins and their God shield. So incredibly annoying. Having 12 seconds to do whatever you want. Heal, attack, etc. It needs to be like the cleric DA in EQ. You're invulnerable, ok. But you can't do a thing while being so.

Oh and being able to cast said shield while stunned, or silenced or feared thus negating the effect outright is just wrong. I don't understand what the developers were thinking when giving them this ability. No other class gets anything anywhere near it.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » February 7, 2005, 8:10 am

Paladins are just that though, annoying. I've killed every one I've ever gone against with my shaman. I just takes a while.

Damiarch · Post by **Damiarch** » February 7, 2005, 5:52 pm

Yeah, you are correct. Facing a pally around my level 1v1 I don't believe I've lost either. It just takes my entire mana pool and a potion because I have to beat his entire life bar down three times before he drops dead. And unfortunately the number of times I've fought a pally one on one isn't very high. Some hunter or rogue always has to step in and kill me after I've eaten through the pally's shields and LoH.

From what I've seen, shamans don't seem to have too much trouble either.

eOmniz · Post by **eOmniz** » February 7, 2005, 9:20 pm

I agree we are too hard to kill. I would gladly trade one of my shields for better means of holding agro or better dps.

We live forever, that's our only real strong point. Today I tried to kill a shaman 5 levels below me. He was in a guild I hate, and he didn't know I was going to attack him. He was on his kodo. I fully buff myself, and attack him, getting in about 4 hits with my Krol Blade before he starts running. I then stun him for 6 seconds, getting in 3-4 more hits. At this point he's at half life, and ... he runs. Not a damn thing I can do about it.

I can't stop anyone from running from me, I have 1 stun every 60 seconds (with like a 10 yard range). If a hunter or a mage or a priest or a warlock or a shaman kites me, there's nothing I can do about it. Yes I can spam Cleanse (which is also overpowered and needs a 10 second recast) to get rid of snares, but that doesnt stop the fact that they can also just run just as fast. While I hardly ever die in PVP, I also almost never kill anyone. The only people I usually kill are cocky rogues who don't use sprint to get away when they're losing and 2h or dual wielding warriors.

The people who kill me easiest = shield warriors, hunters who spam viper sting, priests who fear then mana burn (yes I can get out of your fear ... but only do it and be immune to mana burn after once every 5 minutes. One of my shields only makes me immune to melee), and shamans who frost shock and run in circles.

I would kill to be a Warlock or Priest instead of a paladin. I can't get groups. I take forever to kill anything (not that that matters, only things I try to kill at 60 are tradeskill farming shit and instance shit and PVP). Today I soloed a 61 elite Stone Guardian in Un'Goro, it took me over 4 minutes. Is it silly I can kill a 61 elite when probably no other class can? Yes. Does it mean Paladins own all and are more fun to play? Definitely not.

Damiarch · Post by **Damiarch** » February 8, 2005, 2:18 am

Hehe, I watched my Shaman friend solo a 60 elite when he was 59, in Burning Steppes I believe. Alliance seem to scream nearly as much about shamans as we do about pallies. Although it's my opinion in that arguement, that it takes more skill to play a good shaman than a paladin. Just based on what I've observed.

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » February 8, 2005, 3:25 am

As a shield warrior I can stun a lot. However to do it semi-reliably I have to focus on stunning and not defense.

With stuns, if very lucky, I can do a 2second stun every 6 seconds. Its just not very reliable. I have to miss somehow, then have the rage for revenge, then hope the 40%chance to stun kicks in. I do have concussion blow, a reliable 6second stun, but I need rage for that. However once they get away from me im a sitting duck. I cant charge because im in combat, I cant intercept because the stance changing drains my rage. I can only hope they dont get too far away from me.

Shields are a lot more reliable for taking on casters but they are much slower too. My shield bash will cancel any spell, and if they were casting, 2 second silence kicks in

. However just like all my other abilities I need rage, and since im usually spamming revenge, shield discipline, and shield block, I dont have much left in reserve. I still dont beleive people who say shield block is worthless, it blocks a huge amount of damage.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » February 8, 2005, 10:05 am

With stuns, if very lucky, I can do a 2second stun every 6 seconds. Its just not very reliable. I have to miss somehow, then have the rage for revenge, then hope the 40%chance to stun kicks in.

You do not have to miss to use revenge. Revenge lights up anytime YOU dodge, parry, or block an attack. I use shield block + revenge combo almost exclusively. One tip on gaining and holding agro for you warriors, hit shield block before you hit taunt, this way when the mob turns to attack you you will block his first attack and can revenge immediately. My friend told me about this method when I was leveling up, and it does make a difference.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » February 8, 2005, 10:23 am

eOmniz wrote:and shamans who frost shock and run in circles.

Bah, sissies. Just stand up and fight

*Edit - Why does the alliance whine about shaman?

Madren · Post by **Madren** » February 8, 2005, 10:31 am

.. i weep when i stomp the blood from their corpses... i dont know why.. must have been one in a former life..

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » February 8, 2005, 12:56 pm

I've fought at least 10 paladins all at least a couple of levels higher than me except for one who was 2 levels below but attacked me with a Warrior a level higher... and I didn't loose that battle and have lost any other pally battles and I have NEVER run. It's an easy win, Damage Shield, Wind Fury, FS, FS, Damage Shield, FS, FS and usually they are gone... I use a dagger, with Windfury they often, 80%, die before they can do their second complete heal because they aren't expecting all the procs WF2 gives with a 1.40 dps weapon.

Marb

Madren · Post by **Madren** » February 8, 2005, 1:04 pm

on a single class vs. class comparison, paladins may have abilities that are annoying, and frustrating to deal with.

But

If paladin is the alliance answer to Horde Shaman, i ll keep our shaman , any day of the week and twice on sunday.

Sionistic · Post by **Sionistic** » February 8, 2005, 1:57 pm

Xyun wrote:
With stuns, if very lucky, I can do a 2second stun every 6 seconds. Its just not very reliable. I have to miss somehow, then have the rage for revenge, then hope the 40%chance to stun kicks in.
You do not have to miss to use revenge. Revenge lights up anytime YOU dodge, parry, or block an attack. I use shield block + revenge combo almost exclusively. One tip on gaining and holding agro for you warriors, hit shield block before you hit taunt, this way when the mob turns to attack you you will block his first attack and can revenge immediately. My friend told me about this method when I was leveling up, and it does make a difference.

eerr yeah that, I couldnt remember exactly what was the criteria

Janx · Post by **Janx** » February 8, 2005, 3:45 pm

Why not just clense the viper sting? 60mana(?) for the paladin vs a few hundered for the viper sting. I think we know who will run outta mana first in that case.

Also a Paladin that invests in engineering is pretty nutty (Net gun for example)