Read it and weep... now HOPEFULLY we can get on to the issues

Marb
I don't think anyone here was argueing that they weren't approved.Marbus wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/ ... index.html
Read it and weep... now HOPEFULLY we can get on to the issues
Marb
Nope. LOL. A completely invalid article. I'm sure a lot of people will buy into it though.Winnow wrote:I don't think anyone here was argueing that they weren't approved.Marbus wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/ ... index.html
Read it and weep... now HOPEFULLY we can get on to the issues
Marb
/sighSionistic wrote:ok, why is it invalid?
You can't recommend yourself for a medal. There is a 3 purple heart and you are out of combat rule. He got 3 of them in a 4 month period. That is why it came into question by some people.Sionistic wrote:sorry, misread something, so I see what you mean
but even if he recomended himself, whats wrong with that?
The questions brought up were in regards to the recommendation not the approval process. It is a farce and nothing more.Our examination found that existing documentation regarding the Silver Star, Bronze Star and Purple Heart medals indicates the awards approval process was properly followed," Route wrote in the memo sent Friday to Navy Secretary Gordon England.
"In particular, the senior officers who awarded the medals were properly delegated authority to do so. In addition, we found that they correctly followed the procedures in place at the time for approving these awards."
The farce is shitheads like you grasping at straws in a desparate attempt to discredit Kerry .The questions brought up were in regards to the recommendation not the approval process. It is a farce and nothing more.
I didn't make the rules regarding medals. I'm just explaining the bullshit the media is trying to run by you. If you want to by into it, go ahead.miir wrote:How exactly does one recommend oneself for a medal that has set requirements?
If the soldier meets the set requirements for said medal, how the individual's name who made the recommendation relevant?
If you were shot or injured in combat, treated for it and did not receive a purple heart, would you not make mention of it to your commanding officer? I mean, if you were treated for wounds, there would be medical record of it.
The farce is shitheads like you grasping at straws in a desparate attempt to discredit Kerry .The questions brought up were in regards to the recommendation not the approval process. It is a farce and nothing more.
It is inevitable that a person's self image changes with age, and thus the way that they present themselves to others. The reckless young man of 29 living in an ackward period of American history is not the same man as the 55 year old Senator from Massachusettes today. The same is true of the cocaine addict, alcoholic aetheist, who reinvented himself as a conservative Christian President of the United States.Metanis wrote:I read the article. Now, while I don't think this will put the issue to rest, I really wish it would. I've read enough to know that he at least marginally qualifed for the medals. I think it's knee-slapping funny how hard he worked to get the medals only to throw them away later. But he didn't really throw them away. The medals really meant something to him even though he wanted people to think the opposite in 1972. Already at this stage of his life a pattern of deception was forming. I don't necessary mean deception in the illlegal sense. I'm thinking more like the smoke and mirrors of a magician or illusionist. Watch John Kerry reinvent himself NOW... and NOW... and NOW again.
I'm not reaching at anything. I haven't even thought of it for a week or so, till now. Your making it into my problem. It isn't at all. I'm just laughing at how they have come out with this report acting as if this have answered questioned. It hasn't. The questions that arose from the swift boat vets thing, was whether he earned his record setting 3 purple hearts in his grueling 4 month action in Vietnam and whether he recommended himself for any or all of those medals. I never expect to know the truth, because Kerry won't sign the release of his military records. I just don't appreciate the insult to Americans intelligence when they release this report which only makes it look as if they are answering the questions still lingering. Obviously it is working on a few people, but I atribute that to people just wanting to hear what they want to hear.miir wrote:There are requirements and an approval process... there is no 'recommendation' process.
If the person who 'recommended' (if that's even possible) the medal was even remotely relevant, should it not be recorded in the records?
If it is not recorded on any records we can assume that it is not relevant information.
Medals awards are based on approval and meeting the set requirements/criteria.
I fail to see how there should be any question about the validity of his medals unless you're really reaching at a conspiracy theory.
You can write up your own award and submit it to your superiors. It happens all the time. That doesn't make it any less valid.You can't recommend yourself for a medal
No he hasn't. He has said he released all his records, but he hasn't. Remember: Saying it over and over doesn't make it true.Thess wrote:Kerry released his military records months ago - they are on his website.Denadeb wrote:I personally don't blame him for not releasing his Military records. There is all kinds of personal info in there that no one else has any buisness looking at.
Saddam Hussein wants to use Al Qaeda as a forward armyMidnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Remember: Saying it over and over doesn't make it true.
All verified since we went into Iraq except the last one. Your point?Voronwë wrote:Saddam Hussein wants to use Al Qaeda as a forward armyMidnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Remember: Saying it over and over doesn't make it true.
Saddam Hussein poses a grave and gathering threat to the United States
Saddam Hussein is developing nuclear weapons
Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction and we know where they are.
Omfg.. you are trolling, right?Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:All verified since we went into Iraq except the last one. Your point?Voronwë wrote:Saddam Hussein wants to use Al Qaeda as a forward armyMidnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Remember: Saying it over and over doesn't make it true.
Saddam Hussein poses a grave and gathering threat to the United States
Saddam Hussein is developing nuclear weapons
Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction and we know where they are.
His purple heart recommendations are missing. He has not signed the paperwork to release those. After all the scrutiny regarding that exact question, if they were legit, you think he would have those released. He hasn't.Thess wrote:Here Midnyte - just for you.
http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_ker ... cords.html
I have never been in the army, navy etc. so tell me which records are missing. I realise things like his SS# are blacked out.
Midnyte, can you produce any information regarding the recording of the individuals who 'recommended' a soldier for a medal on that soldiers military record?Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:His purple heart recommendations are missing. He has not signed the paperwork to release those. After all the scrutiny regarding that exact question, if they were legit, you think he would have those released. He hasn't.Thess wrote:Here Midnyte - just for you.
http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_ker ... cords.html
I have never been in the army, navy etc. so tell me which records are missing. I realise things like his SS# are blacked out.
Excellent point. Has there been a reason in the past for someone to sign a SF 180 to clear there anme? I don't really know. Here is a little story though showing what exactly I am talking about when I say he hasn't released all his military records.miir wrote:Midnyte, can you produce any information regarding the recording of the individuals who 'recommended' a soldier for a medal on that soldiers military record?Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:His purple heart recommendations are missing. He has not signed the paperwork to release those. After all the scrutiny regarding that exact question, if they were legit, you think he would have those released. He hasn't.Thess wrote:Here Midnyte - just for you.
http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_ker ... cords.html
I have never been in the army, navy etc. so tell me which records are missing. I realise things like his SS# are blacked out.
I mean, give me an example.
One single example of a military record listing the 'recommender' of a medal.
I've done a number of searches, found some full public US military records and I can't find this on any of the examples I have found.
It strikes me as odd that they would even list such irrelevant information.
Get to work!
Support your argument with some facts!
------------------------
Sirton, why do you bother posting links to joke sites like that.
Nobody with half a brain would take anything from that site seriously.
Kerry camp denies hiding war records
By Stephen Dinan
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published August 18, 2004
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sen. John Kerry's campaign said yesterday that the Democratic presidential nominee is not hiding any of his war records and has, in fact, released them all to the public.
"Senator Kerry's entire military service record is posted on JohnKerry.com. His entire record," said Michael Meehan, adviser for communications to the campaign, at a press conference called to defend Mr. Kerry against recent charges that the former Navy lieutenant didn't deserve some of his war decorations -- three Purple Hearts, a Bronze Star and a Silver Star.
Members of the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, veterans who served duty similar to Mr. Kerry on PCF (Patrol Craft Fast) boats, have written a book and sponsored a television advertisement challenging Mr. Kerry's version of events during his four months in combat.
The group wants Mr. Kerry to sign Standard Form 180, which it says would facilitate the release of records and help sort out which version of events is accurate.
John O'Neill, the man who took over Mr. Kerry's command in Vietnam and a co-author of the new book "Unfit for Command," said such records as after-action, hostile fire and casualty reports would show whether Mr. Kerry deserved one of his Purple Hearts.
Mr. Meehan, acknowledging that Mr. Kerry has not signed Standard Form 180, said the records have all been laid out nonetheless.
"Has he signed the form?" he asked. "No. What he's signed is his release of privacy to the United States Navy to turn over his entire military record and he's posted it up on his Web site, so the whole world can see his entire military record."
Mr. O'Neill, though, said the campaign has acknowledged in the past it that has withheld some records.
"That's a lie or a carefully calculated set of words," he said yesterday in a telephone interview. "He continues to conceal, for example, his medical records. He's provided virtually none of his medical records, only an interpretation of them by a friendly physician."
Mr. O'Neill said the key is Standard Form 180, which, if Mr. Kerry signed it, would let reporters or anyone else write the Defense Department to ask for all of his military records.
"If he executes Standard Form 180, he would no longer be the gatekeeper, the gatekeeper would be the U.S. military."
Mr. Kerry's service in Vietnam and Mr. Bush's service in the Texas Air National Guard have both become issues in the presidential campaign.
MoveOn.org, a liberal advocacy group, is running a television commercial calling on Mr. Bush to ask the Swift Boat veterans to pull the commercial. MoveOn.org accuses Mr. Bush of shirking duty.
"George Bush used his father to get into the National Guard, and when the chips were down, went missing," the commercial says. "Now he's allowing false advertising that attacks John Kerry."
At yesterday's press conference, Mr. Kerry's surrogates echoed this charge.
"Did he [Mr. Bush] sign his 180? Can we see his records?" asked Del Sandusky, one of Mr. Kerry's crewmates.
Wesley Clark, the retired Army general who ran unsuccessfully for the Democratic Party's presidential ticket earlier this year, said there are "questions about George Bush's military service. As far as I know, they've never been satisfactorily answered."
"Both men went to Yale. Both men came from backgrounds where national policy was discussed around the dinner table and in the dining hall," Mr. Clark said.
"One man volunteered to serve his country. He volunteered to go to Vietnam. He volunteered a third time to command a Swift Boat in one of the most dangerous activities in the war. The other man scrambled and used his family influence to get out of hearing a shot fired in anger," he said.
"That's the comparison."
Mr. Kerry himself condemned MoveOn.org's ad yesterday, following the lead of Sen. John McCain, Arizona Republican and a Vietnam prisoner of war.
"I agree with Senator McCain that the ad is inappropriate," Mr. Kerry said in a statement.
At yesterday's press conference, another of Mr. Kerry's supporters, Jim Rassmann, the Special Forces lieutenant who credits Mr. Kerry with saving his life after he fell in the river by pulling him from the water, said both candidates' service records should not be a part of the campaign.
"There's no evidence that the president did not serve honestly and well. And until that shows up, if in fact it's true, let's leave it alone," Mr. Rassmann said. "But by the same token, no one has shown any kind of evidence that John did not perform honorably and well, and by the same token, let's leave that alone as well."
A spokesman for the military's National Personnel Records Center in Missouri, the depository for service records of former members of the armed services, did not return a call for comment yesterday.
At the White House, press secretary Scott McClellan said he couldn't say specifically whether Mr. Bush signed Standard Form 180, but the president did request and release his own military records in February.
"I don't believe he signed any form, but he did authorize making his military records available publicly," Mr. McClellan said. "We have released all the records, and reporters were allowed to look at his medical records as well."
Mr. Sandusky, in defending Mr. Kerry yesterday, called one accusation -- that Mr. Kerry exaggerated the circumstances surrounding the rescue of Lt. Rassmann, and in fact fled the scene before turning around and coming back -- "a stretch of the truth so far it's a bald-faced lie."
"I had to clear the obstructions to let the boat behind me get out of the way so we could get back over where all the other boats were at. And the firefight started immediately after the three boat got hit," he said. "All the remaining four boats were shooting."
Also, Mr. Kerry has been asked recently whether he was being "honest" when he said he spent Christmas 1968 under fire in Cambodia -- a memory he said was "seared in me."
The Swift Boat veterans say he wasn't in Cambodia then, and none of the 20 veterans who appeared to defend Mr. Kerry yesterday could say where he was that Christmas.
Mr. Sandusky said it doesn't surprise him that Mr. Kerry may have forgotten where he was then because, like many serving in Vietnam, they didn't want to think about Christmas.
"We didn't know where we were at for Christmas," he said. "If [Mr. Kerry] said it, I believe it. I've known John Kerry for 35 years, and he's never lied to me."
Mr. Kerry's campaign also has criticized the Swift Boat veterans, saying they were funded by people tied to Mr. Bush or his allies.
But in May, Mr. O'Neill said the only unifying factor in the group was trying to stop Mr. Kerry from becoming commander in chief. "If Kerry drops out and allows the American people a real choice, a fit choice, to be president, we all go home."
From what I have read, it is a complete record of ones military service, which shoiuld include that, yes. What Kerry has on his site are copies of most everything but those letters of recommendation.miir wrote:Is that a military record listing the name of the individual who recommended them for a Purple Hearts?
Didn't think so.
I agree 100% with Canelek. Can we all agree that Kerry is a flip flopping pussy and move on to discussing whether or not he has had Botox treatments? In return, we can all agree that Kerry technically, according to records, received medals.Canelek wrote:Ok, this is the nth post about Kerry, etc. and there is the same argument all over... yes, Kerry is a flipflopping pussy and will not get elected--we know this already. Bush is a witless redneck, we know this also.
But really, every topic here goes in the same direction. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH FUCKING BLAH....