Free Speech Zones

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Dregor Thule
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Free Speech Zones

Post by Dregor Thule »

Was just talking in IRC about this, and I thought I'd post about it. How did this come to happen? Isn't America, by definition in the constitution, a free speech zone? How is it that the government can be allowed to pass laws restricting a persons "right to peacably assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances"? Shouldn't this be anathema to everything you were taught about your country growing up? To everything being shoved down your throat as the reason-of-the-day on why your people are dying in Iraq right now?

Seriously, conservative or liberal, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Communist, I don't care what your political affiliation is. Do you support this? Those of you who do, why? How do you justify this?
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Voronwë
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Post by Voronwë »

the right to assembly has always been in designated areas. People just cant legally block roads adn stuff as much as they'd like because it has an economic impact.

I think the manner in which both conventions had these protest sections was not the best solution.
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Post by Dregor Thule »

http://www.warblogging.com/archives/000630.php
On October 24, the Associated Press reports,Brett Bursey decided enough was enough. He was protesting at a speech by President Bush and decided that no "Free Speech Zone" would hem him in. In his mind, as in Congressman Frank's mind and my mind, this entire country is a free speech zone. And so Bursey, a man described by the AP as a "long-time activist" showed up at Columbia Metropolitan Airport before Bush was scheduled to arrive.

Police officers approached Bursey and told him to leave the area, telling him it was restricted. They told him he could go to a "designated protest site" that was "at least a half-mile away from the speech." Bursey refused. Police officers arrested Bursey for trespass.

Bursey was singled out for arrest not because he was in an area restricted to official personnel. He wasn't singled out because he was in a location the Secret Service needed to keep clear for security reasons. He was singled out becaue he was holding an anti-Bush sign while standing in an area reserved for Republicans enthusiastically greeting Bush. As the New York Times reported, Bursey was one of thousands of civilians standing on the tarmac at Columbia Metropolitan Airport to greet President Bush. He was the only one protesting his arrival, however.

The local charges against Bursey have been dropped, as they should have been. Courts have previously ruled that proesters on public property cannot be arrested for trespass. John Ashcroft's Justice Department, however, has filed its own charges against Bursey on the grounds that the Secret Service has the right to "restrict access to areas during the president's travels." Nevermind, of course, that in this case the Secret Service's restriction is based entirely on politics and not on security concerns.

Eleven members of the House of Representatives disagree with John Ashcroft. The group of Congressmen, including Representative Barney Frank (Democrat, Mass.) and Ron Paul (Republican, Texas) have written a letter to John Ashcroft saying that charging Bursey was a mistake "and is in fact a threat to the freedom of expression we should all be defending."

Bursey, the AP reports, faces $5,000 in fines and up to six months in jail for attempting to exercise his rights as an American citizen.
Now yes Voro, I agree, it's not a carte blanche to go hog wild however you want to as long as you're protesting. Blocking traffic and refusing to move strays from peacably demonstrating. Holding a sign in a crowd where cameras might see it isn't.
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Post by masteen »

Fuck the fucking fuckers.

Seriously, if you're in the road, I think we should be allowed to drive over you. I'm all for the right to peaceful assembly, but some of us have fucking jobs to get to.

You're right in that case, Dregor. However, I'm very sure that if the NYPD and secret service hadn't taken measures to keep the roads clean, there would have been the worst traffic jam in the history of NYC, and prolly by design.
Last edited by masteen on September 1, 2004, 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dregor Thule
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Post by Dregor Thule »

masteen wrote:Fuck the fucking fuckers.

Seriously, if you're in the road, I think we should be allowed to drive over you. I'm all for the right to peaceful assembly, but some of us have fucking jobs to get to.
You can protest their right to protest in a nice, designated, fenced in location at least half a mile away from anyone who would give a damn :P
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Post by masteen »

I'm no fucking hippy. I own a car, and demand my right to plow into said pachouli scented ilk.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

I see nothing wrong with this. Whether it be at the DNC or RNC.

I group has the right to hold an event without assholes disrupting it. If they have the kind of jobs(or lack there of), giving them the time to kill to walk around and protest then do it in the designated areas. Very few people give a fuck anyway.
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Post by Markulas »

lol, the people in the middle of the road get punished anyways. Anyways, I heard free speech is in our constition somewhere.
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Post by Raistin »

Why is Midnyte allowed to keep posting. What the fuck? I've never met such a bigger peice of shit. Id rather have a dinner date with Karae and Dregor at the same time, and hold hands, if it allowed us to ship you off to Iraq or the bottom of a ocean.
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Post by Lynks »

Free speech zones make it easier for the police to gas and beat the protestors.
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Post by Jice Virago »

The designated protest zone laws have been on the books a long time. If I am not mistaken, they are a hold over from the 70s. They were never widely enforced before the Ministry of Homeland Security came into effect, however. In theory, there is no way that these laws could stand up to constitutional scrutiny. In practice, the Bush Corperation has a lot of means of getting around the constitution, as many of the administration's policies (ex "Faith Based Initiatives") demonstrate. The Homeland Security act already circumvents a large number of constitutionally protected rights, so this entire situation (especially with Ashcroft involved) is not exactly suprising. I am sure if it were crispies tossing blood on young unwed mothers walking into an abortion clinic, you would not be seeing Mr Ashcroft involved, as well.

My personal view is that free speech should in no way be restricted except to disallow undue disruption of economic or social activities. What I mean by that is, if you want to march around the outside of a church chanting "Fuck Jesus", you are perfectly entitled to do so as long as you are not obstructing normal traffic to the chuch, interfering with the service itself, or employing any form of violent behavior as part of your protest. Conversely, if you want to chant "Fuck Bush" outside the RNC or at the airport when GW is landing, that is also your right as a citizen, but if you are protesting an outdoor event you would obviously have to maintain a larger distance to avoid disrupting any public address going on. Finally, any federal property with areas open to the public are fair game to any non violent protest, case closed.

This sicking the secret service on anyone who protests Bush shit has got to stop, now, however.
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Post by Neost »

The really sad part is that the local charges were dropped and I would imagine the federal charges will be also once someone at Justice makes Ashcroft understand there is a fair chance that the laws restricting protests to "free speech zones" probably wouldn't hold up under constitutional scrutiny.

Problem is, they accomplished what they wanted to do and that is shut this poor sap up so he wouldn't make them look bad during a photo op.

If you don't believe jack-booted thugs don't exist in our government guess again. If the Secret Service allowed themselves to be used politically like this, they need a new bunch of agents.
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