This is scary. Possible Israel spy in the Pentagon...

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This is scary. Possible Israel spy in the Pentagon...

Post by Akaran_D »

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/08/27/fbi.spy/index.html
FBI investigating possible spy for Israel
Official: High-level Pentagon worker could have shaped policy
Friday, August 27, 2004 Posted: 10:25 PM EDT (0225 GMT

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The FBI has evidence that a person who has been working at high levels in the Pentagon may be a spy for Israel, senior U.S. officials confirmed to CNN on Friday.

The suspect could have been in a position to influence Bush administration policy toward Iran and Iraq, the senior official said.

However, another government official said the suspect is "not in a level to influence policy."

"He is an analyst in an undersecretary's office," this official said.

A senior Pentagon official confirmed to CNN that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld "had been made generally aware that the Justice Department had an investigation going on."

CBS News, which first reported the story, said the FBI had developed evidence against the suspect, including photographs and conversations recorded through wiretaps.

The network said the suspect has ties to two senior Pentagon officials: Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and Undersecretary of Defense Douglas Feith.

Multiple sources have told CNN that the investigation is well along, and one government official described the evidence against the suspect as a "slam dunk case" and said "there has been no decision to prosecute the individual."

Officials said the suspect passed classified documents to Israel through the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, a pro-Israel lobbying group.

But AIPAC released a statement late Friday calling news reports that two of its staff members may have passed internal White House policy deliberations on Iran to Israel "false and baseless."

The statement said AIPAC learned Friday that "the government is investigating an employee of the Department of Defense for possible violations in handling confidential information."

A designation of the material as confidential would indicate a much lower level of secrecy than if it had been designated as classified.

AIPAC said it "is cooperating fully" with government authorities, including providing documents and information and making staff members available for interviews. Sources told CNN that two AIPAC employees have been interviewed in the case by the FBI.

"Neither AIPAC nor any of its employees has violated any laws or rules, nor has AIPAC or its employees ever received information they believed was secret or classified," the statement said. "AIPAC is an American organization comprised of proud and loyal U.S. citizens committed to promoting American interests. We do not condone or tolerate any violation of any U.S. law or interests."

Washington insiders note that it is not unusual for friendly governments to have access to certain classified information, so even if the allegations are correct, not everyone involved may have thought they were involved in espionage. Still, one U.S. source is calling the case "a very serious matter."

David Siegel, a spokesman for the Israeli Embassy in Washington, denied the allegations.

"The United States is Israel's most cherished friend and ally. We have a strong, ongoing, working relationship at all levels, and in no way would Israel do anything to impair this relationship."

An Israeli official in Washington said the U.S. government has not contacted the Israelis about any such investigation.

Despite the close relationship between the two countries, espionage against the United States on behalf of Israel would not be without precedent. Former U.S. Navy intelligence analyst Jonathan Pollard is serving a life sentence for passing classified material to Israel.

The Justice Department, speaking for the FBI, refused to comment, saying only, "We cannot confirm or deny the report."

An FBI spokesman said the bureau has no comment on the CBS report.

CNN's David Ensor, Barbara Starr, Kelli Arena and Terry Frieden contributed to this report.

The "may have been in a position to influence policy that relates to Iraq" bothers me greatly.
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Post by Kylere »

I have been saying for years that it was time to cut Israel loose, if you want to talk about special interest groups abusing the system they are a great example.
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Post by kyoukan »

you mean israel could be influencing major poltical decisions in the white house under a republican administrtaion?

Shocking!
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Post by Raistin »

hahah no shit?

how could it be influance when clearly iraq had WMD?
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Post by Kelshara »

Are you seriously surprised that Israel spies on the US? Or that they influence the policies here?
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Kelshara wrote:Are you seriously surprised that Israel spies on the US? Or that they influence the policies here?
Must be nice to know everything like you.
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Post by Dregor Thule »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Kelshara wrote:Are you seriously surprised that Israel spies on the US? Or that they influence the policies here?
Must be nice to know everything like you.
Yes, absolutely unthinkable that major foreign powers spy on each other, friend and foe alike. I'm sure the US has several high-ranking moles in Israel as well.

So really, it must be nice knowing the blatantly obvious.
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Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Dregor Thule wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Kelshara wrote:Are you seriously surprised that Israel spies on the US? Or that they influence the policies here?
Must be nice to know everything like you.
Yes, absolutely unthinkable that major foreign powers spy on each other, friend and foe alike. I'm sure the US has several high-ranking moles in Israel as well.

So really, it must be nice knowing the blatantly obvious.
And then braggin about it.
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Post by Dregor Thule »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:And then braggin about it.
What? That doesn't make any sense. Kelshara simply stated a (well founded) incredulous remark asking if they were seriously surprised. I know I agree with him that it's preposterous that anyone with any kind of clue would be shocked that spying between "friends" occured. He wasn't bragging tho. Bragging would be "I knew X person was a spy all along, nyah nyah!"
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Re: This is scary. Possible Israel spy in the Pentagon...

Post by Xzion »

Akaran_D wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/08/27/fbi.spy/index.html
FBI investigating possible spy for Israel
Official: High-level Pentagon worker could have shaped policy
Friday, August 27, 2004 Posted: 10:25 PM EDT (0225 GMT

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The FBI has evidence that a person who has been working at high levels in the Pentagon may be a spy for Israel, senior U.S. officials confirmed to CNN on Friday.

The suspect could have been in a position to influence Bush administration policy toward Iran and Iraq, the senior official said.

However, another government official said the suspect is "not in a level to influence policy."

"He is an analyst in an undersecretary's office," this official said.

A senior Pentagon official confirmed to CNN that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld "had been made generally aware that the Justice Department had an investigation going on."

CBS News, which first reported the story, said the FBI had developed evidence against the suspect, including photographs and conversations recorded through wiretaps.

The network said the suspect has ties to two senior Pentagon officials: Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and Undersecretary of Defense Douglas Feith.

Multiple sources have told CNN that the investigation is well along, and one government official described the evidence against the suspect as a "slam dunk case" and said "there has been no decision to prosecute the individual."

Officials said the suspect passed classified documents to Israel through the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, a pro-Israel lobbying group.

But AIPAC released a statement late Friday calling news reports that two of its staff members may have passed internal White House policy deliberations on Iran to Israel "false and baseless."

The statement said AIPAC learned Friday that "the government is investigating an employee of the Department of Defense for possible violations in handling confidential information."

A designation of the material as confidential would indicate a much lower level of secrecy than if it had been designated as classified.

AIPAC said it "is cooperating fully" with government authorities, including providing documents and information and making staff members available for interviews. Sources told CNN that two AIPAC employees have been interviewed in the case by the FBI.

"Neither AIPAC nor any of its employees has violated any laws or rules, nor has AIPAC or its employees ever received information they believed was secret or classified," the statement said. "AIPAC is an American organization comprised of proud and loyal U.S. citizens committed to promoting American interests. We do not condone or tolerate any violation of any U.S. law or interests."

Washington insiders note that it is not unusual for friendly governments to have access to certain classified information, so even if the allegations are correct, not everyone involved may have thought they were involved in espionage. Still, one U.S. source is calling the case "a very serious matter."

David Siegel, a spokesman for the Israeli Embassy in Washington, denied the allegations.

"The United States is Israel's most cherished friend and ally. We have a strong, ongoing, working relationship at all levels, and in no way would Israel do anything to impair this relationship."

An Israeli official in Washington said the U.S. government has not contacted the Israelis about any such investigation.

Despite the close relationship between the two countries, espionage against the United States on behalf of Israel would not be without precedent. Former U.S. Navy intelligence analyst Jonathan Pollard is serving a life sentence for passing classified material to Israel.

The Justice Department, speaking for the FBI, refused to comment, saying only, "We cannot confirm or deny the report."

An FBI spokesman said the bureau has no comment on the CBS report.

CNN's David Ensor, Barbara Starr, Kelli Arena and Terry Frieden contributed to this report.

The "may have been in a position to influence policy that relates to Iraq" bothers me greatly.
Uh-oh! Looks like they caught Wolfowitz!
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Re: This is scary. Possible Israel spy in the Pentagon...

Post by Metanis »

Xzion wrote:Uh-oh! Looks like they caught Wolfowitz!
Sure! Just like they caught Sandy Berger!
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Post by Kylere »

kyoukan wrote:you mean israel could be influencing major poltical decisions in the white house under a republican administrtaion?

Shocking!
If you think it did not happen under Clinton, Carter, etc then I have but one thing to say Kyoukan...

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Post by Kelshara »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Kelshara wrote:Are you seriously surprised that Israel spies on the US? Or that they influence the policies here?
Must be nice to know everything like you.
Must be nice to live in your own little world where everything is black and white, everybody are the same way and nothing bad ever happens because "Big Poppa Bush" is the glorious leader.

But seriously.. you would be extremely naive not to think Israel A. Spies on the US and any other major country around the world, B. Will do whatever they can to push policy beneficial to themself and C. Cares only about themself. It wouldn't be the first time Israeli undercover forces worked outside of their own country (their extremely embarrassing assassination in Norway in 1974 is a good example), and I find it humorous that the US will let them take advantage of them over and over without failing in their blind support whatsoever.
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Post by Metanis »

Kelshara wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Kelshara wrote:Are you seriously surprised that Israel spies on the US? Or that they influence the policies here?
Must be nice to know everything like you.
Must be nice to live in your own little world where everything is black and white, everybody are the same way and nothing bad ever happens because "Big Poppa Bush" is the glorious leader.

But seriously.. you would be extremely naive not to think Israel A. Spies on the US and any other major country around the world, B. Will do whatever they can to push policy beneficial to themself and C. Cares only about themself. It wouldn't be the first time Israeli undercover forces worked outside of their own country (their extremely embarrassing assassination in Norway in 1974 is a good example), and I find it humorous that the US will let them take advantage of them over and over without failing in their blind support whatsoever.
That line triggers a bell. Bullshit alert. Kelshara is blinded by her unfailing worship of that larger diety "Teh World!". Code word crap for starry-eyed liberalism.

Get a clue lady. Countries are EXPECTED to look out for themselves. It is their JOB!

Does this mean I'm a blind supporter of Israel?
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Post by Lynks »

Fuck you don't make any sense Met. Of course they are expected, Kel JUST said that!
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Post by Kelshara »

Lady? Pretty slow aren't you?

Granted I gladly admit I have the long-term vision that you lack which clearly shows that all countries thinking only about themself will lead to the downfall of the world as we know it. However, that comment this time was pointed at you and other dumbass Americans who support Israel no matter what while you are taken advantage of over and over again. I'd dare say many of the Jewish Americans would put Israel over the US as well.

Now I don't expect you to get any of this considering you eat what your fellow neocon heroes feed you for breakfast ever day without questions.
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Post by Akaran_D »

Surprised? No, not really.
Spies are expected, of course. It's the part where the spy may have been so far up in our ranks that he or she may have influenced foreign policy to the point of starting a war that bothers me.
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Post by Niffoni »

ROFL! Is it sad that my first thought, even before I read the thread was "aww... poor Wolfowitz".
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Post by Kylere »

Umm this is NOT the first Israeli spy we have caught. We just need to start executing them.
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Post by noel »

While this is really no surprise... Israel are getting to be more trouble than they're worth. I wish we could cut them loose, Kylere, but then we'd have no control over them.
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Post by Kelshara »

You don't have any control over them now as it is though..
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Post by Kylere »

noel wrote:While this is really no surprise... Israel are getting to be more trouble than they're worth. I wish we could cut them loose, Kylere, but then we'd have no control over them.
It is not our job to control them, if they got out of line without us backing them then they would "live by the sword, die by the sword" and save us the bad PR.

You know the US has backed Israel out of guilt for not stopping Hitler earlier and via the efforts of PACs for 50 years, it is time to call it quits we cannot afford the hassle anymore. Especially not when we catch them spying on us regularly.
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Post by masteen »

Israel needs to be added to the axis of evil. They meet the same criterion we used on Saddam. They have displaced thousands of people within their borders, they regularly assassinate opposition leaders, shoot missiles into populated areas, ect.

The only difference is that their tyrranical leaders are elected. How they get into power is irrelevant to me; their actions once in power are what speak volumes to me.
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Post by Krimson Klaw »

I feel sorry for ANY country that attacks Israel, including USA.
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Post by Winnow »

All countries have spies in as many places as they can. Israel is no different than any other country in that respect. It's only headlines when someone gets caught.
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Post by Siji »

Krimson Klaw wrote:I feel sorry for ANY country that attacks Israel, including USA.
Agreed.
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Post by Krurk »

Acutally it could be pretty easy for the United States to whomp the Israelis.

Just ask Egypt and Turkey for support. Considering we subsidize both of their militaries, it should be easy to get them to lend troops to go beat up on some Israelis.

If you look back at the previous wars in the regions, Israel always emerged victorious because of their air supremacy over the battlefield. While their air force is extremely capable and likely the second best in the world, they still can not match the quality, equipment, and NUMBERS of the USAF and USN.

Ofcourse, this won't happen cause TV tells me that Jews rule the world.
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Re: This is scary. Possible Israel spy in the Pentagon...

Post by Thess »

Metanis wrote:
Xzion wrote:Uh-oh! Looks like they caught Wolfowitz!
Sure! Just like they caught Sandy Berger!
Sandy Berger was cleared of all charges.
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Post by Kylere »

If it ever hit the fan Israel versus the US would not be pretty. The US would win, but it would cost us a near even exhange of air platforms.

Israel could hold it own against most of the middle east, of course if that occured it would in essense remove 70% or more of the military assets of Israel, Egypt, Libya, Syria, etc. This would be a gain for the world.
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Post by Kelshara »

hum if I recall correctly the Israeli pilots are generally ranked as the best in the world.. an air war would be nasty although air combat now is nothing but technology. Not like the good old WWII days!
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Post by Kylere »

Kelshara wrote:hum if I recall correctly the Israeli pilots are generally ranked as the best in the world.. an air war would be nasty although air combat now is nothing but technology. Not like the good old WWII days!
Thus why I said it would be a near even exchange of air platforms. We would take them at least 1.8 of theirs to one of ours though, because we could in terms of raw numbers oversaturate their defenses, and overwhelm their pilots. Even if they could land rearm, refuel, they would drop like bricks within 24 hours, pilots cannot sustain constant in air combat for too long.
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Post by Kelshara »

Very true. Some years ago the Israeli pilots would benefit from combat experience but not so anymore. Would be nasty to try to put ground forces in Israel though, with all the weapons there and with how ready they are to use them heh.
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Post by kyoukan »

Kylere wrote:[If you think it did not happen under Clinton, Carter, etc then I have but one thing to say Kyoukan...

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Oh.. well you seem well informed on this topic. how many israeli spies were caught in the pentagon making major policy decisions during the clinton and carter years?
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Post by Winnow »

Israel has Nukes. They wouldn't go down without using them.

Here's what we'd be up against: (quoted from a site with horrible formatting)
-Sophisticated nuclear (and possibly thermonuclear) weapons program with an estimated 100-200 weapons, which can be delivered by ballistic missiles or aircraft.
-150MW heavy water reactor and plutonium reprocessing facility at Dimona, which are not under IAEA safeguards.
-IRR-1 5MW research reactor at Soreq, under IAEA safeguards.
-Not a signatory of the NPT (Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty)

Ballistic missiles:

-Approximately 50 Jericho-2 missiles with 1,500km range and 1,000kg payload
-Approximately 50 Jericho-1 missiles with 500km range and 500kg payload
-Unconfirmed reports of Jericho-3 program under development using Shavit technologies, with a range up to 4,800km and 1000kg payload

Cruise missiles:

-Harpy lethal unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) with 500km range and unknown payload
-Delilah/STAR-1 UAV with 400km range and 50kg payload
-Gabriel-4 anti-ship cruise missile with 200km range and 500kg payload
-Harpoon anti-ship cruise missile with 120km range and 220kg payload

Fighter and ground-attack aircraft:

64 F-15's (various models)
205 F-16's (various models)
75 F-4E's
20 Kfir C7
50 A-4N

Ground systems include artillery and rocket launchers. Also, Popeye-3 land-attack air-launched missile with 350km range and 360kg payload, and Popeye-1 land-attack air-launched missile with 100km range and 395kg payload
-------------

We'd be up against a lot of our own aircraft. Glad we put those disabling chips in them!

It's clear we wouldn't be facing a handful of scuds.
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Post by Trek »

kyoukan wrote:
Kylere wrote:[If you think it did not happen under Clinton, Carter, etc then I have but one thing to say Kyoukan...

Image
Oh.. well you seem well informed on this topic. how many israeli spies were caught in the pentagon making major policy decisions during the clinton and carter years?
Could be a result of the amount of $$$ spent
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Post by Hesten »

Winnow wrote:Israel has Nukes. They wouldn't go down without using them.

Theres the reason to attack Israel, they got the WMDs that you guys couldnt find i Iraq :D
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Post by Kylere »

kyoukan wrote:
Kylere wrote:[If you think it did not happen under Clinton, Carter, etc then I have but one thing to say Kyoukan...

Image
Oh.. well you seem well informed on this topic. how many israeli spies were caught in the pentagon making major policy decisions during the clinton and carter years?
For one, there is no proof this actually affected US policy. Ever hear of Jonathan Pollard ( http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... llard.html ) , ever hear of the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty? ( http://www.ussliberty.org/ ) From rense.com ( a VERY anti Bush anti republican site http://www.rense.com/general18/dss.htm tells of israeli spies in the US.

You know what, you are right, there is little prress of Israeli spies being in the US under democratic presidencies, perhaps it is covered up during those terms. But the fact is that Israel is a state which is using Nazi like tactics against the world and its own citizens. Psychologists theorize that people who are abused as children are more likely to abuse their own children so perhaps this is a logical occurance. Regardless, Israel as an ally is a threat to the United States, and Israel as an enemy is less of one. Israel constantly spies on the US, a wise man once said "If you shake the haystack and 3 needles fall out, odds are it is full of them"

Just once Kyoukan, I wish you would google something for yourself, or is that too challenging for you?
Country “A” (Israel)1

Excerpted from:
Economic Espionage: Information on Threat from U.S. Allies
http://cryptome.org/nsiad-96-114.txt

Testimony, 02/28/96, GAO/T-NSIAD-96-114

According to a U.S. intelligence agency, the government of Country A conducts the most aggressive espionage operation against the United States of any U.S. ally. Classified military information and sensitive military technologies are high-priority targets for the intelligence agencies of this country. Country A seeks this information for three reasons:

1.

To help the technological development of its own defense industrial base.
2.

To sell or trade the information with other countries for economic reasons.
3.

To sell or trade the information with other countries to develop political alliances and alternative sources of arms.

According to a classified 1994 report produced by a U.S. government interagency working group on U.S. critical technology companies,2 Country A routinely resorts to state-sponsored espionage using covert collection techniques to obtain sensitive U.S. economic information and technology. Agents of Country A collect a variety of classified and proprietary information through observation, elicitation, and theft.

The following are intelligence agency examples of Country A information collection efforts:

*

An espionage operation run by the intelligence organization responsible for collecting scientific and technological information for Country A paid a U.S. government employee to obtain U.S. classified military intelligence documents.
*

Several citizens of Country A were caught in the United States stealing sensitive technology used in manufacturing artillery gun tubes.
*

Agents of Country A allegedly stole design plans for a classified reconnaissance system from a U.S. company and gave them to a defense contractor from Country A.
*

A company from Country A is suspected of surreptitiously monitoring a DOD telecommunications system to obtain classified information for Country A intelligence.
*

Citizens of Country A were investigated for allegations of passing advanced aerospace design technology to unauthorized scientists and researchers.
*

Country A is suspected of targeting U.S. avionics, missile telemetry and testing data, and aircraft communication systems for intelligence operations.
*

It has been determined that Country A targeted specialized software that is used to store data in friendly aircraft warning systems.
*

Country A has targeted information on advanced materials and coatings for collection. A Country A government agency allegedly obtained information regarding a chemical finish used on missile reentry vehicles from a U.S. person.

Footnote 2:
Report on U.S. Critical Technology Companies, Report to Congress on Foreign Acquisition of and Espionage Activities Against U.S. Critical Technology Companies (1994).
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Post by Krurk »

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/Dai ... 20621.html
June 21 — Millions saw the horrific images of the World Trade Center attacks, and those who saw them won't forget them. But a New Jersey homemaker saw something that morning that prompted an investigation into five young Israelis and their possible connection to Israeli intelligence.
Fox did a multi part segment on this and possible theories of Israeli knowledge of the upcomming terrorist attacks, but they mysteriouslly pulled all of the information from their website and the segments vanished shortly after they aired.
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Post by kyoukan »

Kylere wrote:[You know what, you are right, there is little prress of Israeli spies being in the US under democratic presidencies
thanks that's all I needed to hear, because that is all I fucking asked for.
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Post by Kylere »

kyoukan wrote:
Kylere wrote:[You know what, you are right, there is little prress of Israeli spies being in the US under democratic presidencies
thanks that's all I needed to hear, because that is all I fucking asked for.
Yeah because they let them spy on the US you ignorant whore.
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Post by Kelshara »

Fox did a multi part segment on this and possible theories of Israeli knowledge of the upcomming terrorist attacks, but they mysteriouslly pulled all of the information from their website and the segments vanished shortly after they aired.
I remember that and remember that it suddenly got VERY quiet around the whole thing very fast.
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Post by vn_Tanc »

I don't believe Israel would cause the US any problem at all if there were a hypothetical war. The place is the size of Wales. They have well-trained and well-equipped army but their air force is all about being a dog-fighting ninja which isn't going to me much use when most of your airfields have been bombed to shit by B2s during an electronic white-out. Then it's just a ground-zerg. Sure they allegedly have nukes and would use them but that would be then of them.
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Re: This is scary. Possible Israel spy in the Pentagon...

Post by Metanis »

Thess wrote:
Metanis wrote:
Xzion wrote:Uh-oh! Looks like they caught Wolfowitz!
Sure! Just like they caught Sandy Berger!
Sandy Berger was cleared of all charges.
Would you please provide a URL?

As of last Thursday 8/26...
Rest assured, sir, President Clinton's national security adviser remains under Justice Department investigation after stuffing his stockings and britches with highly classified National Archives documents, some of which he proceeded to destroy.
http://washingtontimes.com/national/200 ... -8874r.htm
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Post by Thess »

I read it in the wall street journal
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Post by Metanis »

Thess wrote:I read it in the wall street journal
What are you? Some kind of capitalist pig?

j/k

I found it shocking someone would invoke that dreaded instrument of oppression on these boards.
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