My condolences to the families that lost loved ones to this stupid act.BUCHALKI, Russia (AP) - A Russian airliner crashed and another apparently broke up in the air almost simultaneously after they took off from the same Moscow airport Tuesday night, officials said, raising fears of terrorism and leaving little hope that any of at least 89 people on board could have survived.
Authorities said rescuers found wreckage from a Tu-154 jet, which was carrying at least 46 people, about nine hours after it issued a distress signal indicating an attack and disappeared from radar screens over the Rostov region some 600 miles south of Moscow.
At about the same time that plane disappeared, a Tu-134 airliner carrying 43 people crashed in the Tula region, about 125 miles south of Moscow, officials said. The Emergency Situations Ministry later said that everybody on board the Tu-134 was killed.
The planes had left Moscow's Domodedovo airport within 40 minutes of each other Tuesday night and disappeared from radar screens about 11:00 p.m, officials said.
President Vladimir Putin ordered an investigation by the nation's main intelligence agency, the Federal Security Service, and security was tightened at airports across the country.
Authorities have expressed concern that separatists in war-ravaged Chechnya could carry out attacks linked to this Sunday's election to replace the region's pro-Moscow president, who was killed by a bombing in May. Rebels have been blamed for a series of terror strikes that have claimed hundreds of lives in Russia in recent years.
Witnesses reported seeing an explosion before the first plane crashed about 125 miles south of Moscow, and suspicions of terrorist involvement were compounded by the reports that the Tu-154 airliner that went missing in southern Russia's Rostov region issued a signal indicating the plane was being seized.
Citing an unidentified source in Russia's government, Interfax said the signal came at 11:04 p.m., shortly before the plane disappeared from radar. Emergency and Interior Ministry sources in southern Russia, speaking on condition of anonymity, also told The Associated Press a distress signal had been activated.
The Interfax news agency said emergency workers spotted a fire in the Rostov region, some 600 miles south of Moscow, where the Tu-154 went missing. But rainy weather hampered the search efforts and it took hours before any wreckage was found.
The regional Emergency Situations Ministry chief Viktor Shkareda told AP the plane apparently broke up in the air and that wreckage was spread over an area of some 25-30 miles. Body parts have also been found along with fragments of the plane, Interfax quoted federal Emergency Situations Ministry as saying. It said the parts were found near Gluboky, a village north of the regional capital Rostov-on-Don.
Shkareda said there were 52 people aboard the plane, while emergency officials in Moscow put the number of passengers and crew at 46.
In the Tula region, rescuers found fragments of the Tu-134 jet's tail near the village of Buchalki. Emergency Situations Ministry spokeswoman Marina Ryklina said later there were no survivors.
At about the same time that the Tu-134 crashed, the Tu-154 lost contact with flight controllers, Ryklina said. Interfax, citing Russia's Interstate Aviation Committee, said there were 44 passengers and an unknown number of crew abroad.
The Tu-154 took off from Moscow's Domodedovo airport at 9:35 p.m. Tuesday and the other plane left 40 minutes later, state-run Rossiya television reported.
The Tu-154 belonged to the Russian airline Sibir, which said that the plane had been in service since 1982.
Quoting an unnamed air traffic official in Moscow, ITAR-Tass said that authorities were not ruling out terrorism. Interfax quoted an unnamed Russian aviation security expert as saying the fact that the two planes disappeared around the same time raised suspicions of terrorism.
ITAR-Tass reported that the authorities believe the Tu-134 fell from an altitude of 32,800 feet. It said the plane belonged to small regional airline Volga-Aviaexpress and was being piloted by the company's director, and quoted dispatchers as saying there were 34 passengers and seven crew aboard. Ryklina put the numbers at 35 and eight - a total of 43.
Interfax quoted a Domodedovo airport spokesman as saying there were no foreigners on the passenger lists for either plane.
Authorities said the Tu-134 was headed to the southern city of Volgograd, where Volga-Aviaexpress is based, while the plane that crashed in the Rostov region was flying to the Black Sea resort city of Sochi, where Putin is vacationing.
When Russia's U.N. Ambassador Andrey Denisov was told of the initial report of two near-simultaneous crashes, he said, "Now we have to see if there's terrorism."
In Washington, a U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity Tuesday evening, said it was the understanding of American officials that the two Russian planes disappeared within four minutes of each other, which "in and of itself is suspicious."
Do they really think this garners support for their cause??
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Do they really think this garners support for their cause??
http://apnews1.iwon.com//article/200408 ... e&SEC=news
When I was younger, I used to think that the world was doing it to me and that the world owes me some thing…When you're a teeny bopper, that's what you think. I'm 40 now, I don't think that anymore, because I found out it doesn't f--king work. One has to go through that. For the people who even bother to go through that, most assholes just accept what it is anyway and get on with it." - John Lennon
They don't know if they were either yet. One plane may have activated it's hijack alarm.I'm curious if it they were bombs or actual hijackings
It certiainly looks highly suspect but there's nothing anywhere close to confirmation of terrorist activity yet. Not even a claim of responsibility which I find unusual because they usually come in fairly short order after the event.
Couple of things to keep in mind:
- Even though the Tupolevs are reliable planes, they are getting old. Very old. With a LOT of mileage.
- They are poorly maintained. A few years ago I flew a Tu-154 in Eastern Europe and it was so worn down that I was a bit nervous for the first time ever on a plane. And that wasn't even one of the small Russian airlines. To be frank: Their planes are not maintained at all. Seen some pictures at airliners.net that would scare you senseless.
- This would be something new for the Chechnyans and not really their style. Never know though.
- I would not be surprised if the Russians blame the Checnyans even if they do not find proof. It would fit well into their war against them.
- Even though the Tupolevs are reliable planes, they are getting old. Very old. With a LOT of mileage.
- They are poorly maintained. A few years ago I flew a Tu-154 in Eastern Europe and it was so worn down that I was a bit nervous for the first time ever on a plane. And that wasn't even one of the small Russian airlines. To be frank: Their planes are not maintained at all. Seen some pictures at airliners.net that would scare you senseless.
- This would be something new for the Chechnyans and not really their style. Never know though.
- I would not be surprised if the Russians blame the Checnyans even if they do not find proof. It would fit well into their war against them.
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Regardless of them being run-down, I'd have to imagine that the chances of two of them blowing up from "natural" causes at almost the exact same time would have to be pretty damn slim.Kelshara wrote:- Even though the Tupolevs are reliable planes, they are getting old. Very old. With a LOT of mileage.
- They are poorly maintained. A few years ago I flew a Tu-154 in Eastern Europe and it was so worn down that I was a bit nervous for the first time ever on a plane. And that wasn't even one of the small Russian airlines. To be frank: Their planes are not maintained at all. Seen some pictures at airliners.net that would scare you senseless.
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Yeah it is unlikely but.. with the Checnyans denying having anything to do with it and saying they fight soldiers (which is true.. they seem to try to avoid killing civilians when they can), who are left? According to Associated Press (no link, will look.. it was quoted in Norwegian) they have ruled out terrorism as well although that seems too quick. Would be interesting to see if any of the same maintenance crew worked on the two planes, if there was a fuel problem etc. Will try and see if I get hold of my uncle who (even though retired) still gets a lot of inside info from the airline business and see what he hears.. This event fascinates me.
The intent and plan was to detonate the bombs planted under the rows of seating where the people were forced to stay if their demands were not met.
Yes Russia may have not handled it in the most correct manner resulting in casualties, especially ones afterward when hospitals could not confirm the type of gas used. The ultimate blame lies on the terrorists though Russia took steps to make sure something like that incident never happened again.
Edit: I hate work.
Yes Russia may have not handled it in the most correct manner resulting in casualties, especially ones afterward when hospitals could not confirm the type of gas used. The ultimate blame lies on the terrorists though Russia took steps to make sure something like that incident never happened again.
Edit: I hate work.
Hard to say if that was the intent and plan. It was definitely used to scare with yes. However, they COULD have detonated when the gass came in but didn't. And if you also look at the 10 years of fighting between Russia and Chechnya it is NOT their typical method to kill civilians.
That said.. the whole event was nasty as hell.
That said.. the whole event was nasty as hell.
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Feh, semantics! I will stand by my statement that I'd have to imagine the chances of two of them becoming spontaneously not flightworthy at the same time are pretty slim.vn_Tanc wrote:Last I heard they "came down" not "blew up".I'd have to imagine that the chances of two of them blowing up from "natural" causes at almost the exact same time
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most of the fatalities in the opera house incident were from the aftermath. the gas itself only killed a few people. the authorities were not prepared for the rescue operation and how to properly treat people who were exposed to the gas. most of the deaths were from people choking on their own tongues because of the way the gas effects your musculatory system.
I wish the none Americans on this board would spend half as much time condemning Russian actions as they do American actions.
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No I caught it, but it is not a day in day out BS session. I defended the Russians right to deal with terrorists however they choose to do so. But I did not defend their overall policies because by comparison to the US they are still the scum bag major power of the world running in 1st ahead of China.Kelshara wrote:Then you obviously must have missed the threads about the theater, about the war in Chechnya etc. Of course, if I recall correctly you defended the Russians for what they did.
She Dreams in Digital
\"Led Zeppelin taught an entire generation of young men how to make love, if they just listen\"- Michael Reed(2005)
\"Led Zeppelin taught an entire generation of young men how to make love, if they just listen\"- Michael Reed(2005)
Explosives found in the wreckage.
Says they have suspects, but the Chechens said it wasnt them. Would be interesting if someone else did it.[/url]
Says they have suspects, but the Chechens said it wasnt them. Would be interesting if someone else did it.[/url]
Yes, quite a few of them are hardcore Muslims (yet they are not Arabs! OMG!). This is going to be interesting now to see who if any takes responsibility. Chechnians have never been affraid of taking responsibility, so if it wasn't them but was a new group.. that will unbalance an already shaky Russian situation. Which is scary.
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Here's some from http://new.com.au
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_pag ... 02,00.html
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_pag ... 02,00.html
Havne't seen any other news outlets verify this though.Group claims Russian jet crashes
From correspondents in Moscow
August 27, 2004
A WEBSITE known for militant Muslim comment today published a claim of responsibility for the crashes of two Russian airliners, connecting the action to Russia's fight against separatists in Chechnya.
The statement was signed "the Islambouli Brigades". A group with a similiar name has claimed responsibility for at least one other attack, but the authenticity of today's statement could not immediately be confirmed.
Russian officials have said that terrorism is among the possibilities being investigated in the Tuesday night crashes that killed 89 people.
A spokesman for the Federal Security Service said he could not immediately comment on the website's statement.
Akaran of Mistmoore, formerly Akaran of Veeshan
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I know I'm good at what I do, but I know I'm not the best.
But I guess that on the other hand, I could be like the rest.