Religion
- Siji
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Religion
I really can't stand religious freaks.
http://www.thestate.com/mld/state/news/ ... 378079.htm
A Wiccan wins one in South Carolina
If you ask politely, Darla Kaye Wynne will acknowledge that she is indeed a Wiccan, which is to say, a Witch — but a Witch in the same uppercase way that Muslims are Islamic and Baptists are Christians. Her religious beliefs are rooted in pagan rites that antedate Christianity by a thousand years. Sad to say, some good Christians in Chester County have treated her in a most un-Christian way.
Perhaps her troubles will ease now that the 4th U.S. Circuit has ruled in her favor. Then again, maybe not. A huge part of the history of religion is a history of bigotry, zealotry and gross intolerance of nonbelievers. South Carolinians are probably no better and no worse than humankind everywhere.
Wynne’s story is not especially novel, and the 4th Circuit’s opinion of July 22 is not exactly a landmark in the field of First Amendment jurisprudence. Nonetheless, the case merits a few minutes of your time.
The story begins in 1997, when Wynne moved from the cold climes of Alaska to the warmer fields of South Carolina. She was single, aged 33. She found employment as a home-care aide and driver for Alzheimer’s patients. With her parrot, her Yorkshire terrier and two pet raccoons, she settled in Great Falls (pop. 2,194), some 40 miles north of Columbia. Largely out of curiosity, she began attending monthly meetings of the town council. Usually fewer than a dozen citizens showed up.
The meetings always opened with prayer. Everyone would stand and bow his head. Typically, one of the councilmen would ask “our heavenly Father” to guide them to beneficial decisions. “In the name of Jesus Christ, we pray. Amen.”
Wynne tried to show respect, but she grew increasingly uncomfortable. She asked Mayor Henry Clayton Starnes for a nonsectarian invocation. He refused. She suggested a rotation of local ministers. No way.
Once she stayed outside the council’s meeting room until the prayer ended. She was told she had waived her scheduled opportunity to speak. A councilman asked for a public hearing on her protests and her proposed alternatives. A hundred townspeople turned out to support the status quo. Several Christian ministers filed statements defending the council’s policy. Cries were heard of “Hallelujah!” The mayor told Wynne: “This is the way we’ve always done things, and we’re not going to change.”
Finally she brought suit in U.S. District Court, not for money damages, but for an injunction against patently sectarian invocations. Backed by the American Jewish Congress and the American Civil Liberties Union, she won. The town appealed to the 4th Circuit. She won again. Circuit Judge Diana Gribbon Motz spoke for a three-judge panel in ruling that the council’s invocations clearly advanced one faith in preference to others.
Judge Motz distinguished Wynne’s case from the often-cited case of Marsh v. Chambers. In that case, the Supreme Court in 1983 narrowly approved prayers to open sessions of the state legislature in Nebraska. She said: “The invocations at issue here, which specifically call upon Jesus Christ, are simply not constitutionally acceptable legislative prayer like that in Marsh.” As part of the council’s public business, it may not ritually seek guidance “from a deity in whose divinity only those of one faith believe.”
The Great Falls Council, Motz wrote, remains free to engage in nonsectarian invocations prior to its meetings. “The opportunity to do so may provide a source of strength to believers, and a time of quiet reflection for all. This opportunity does not, however, provide the town council, or any other legislative body, license to advance its own religious views in preference to all others, as the town council did here.”
This strikes me as a sound exposition of Establishment Clause jurisprudence. The Constitution says that Congress (and by extension, the states) shall make “no law” respecting an establishment of religion, but “no law” hasn’t meant literally “no law” since the day the ink dried on the founders’ labor. It is a passing irony that the Supreme Court itself begins its session by asking God to save “the United States and this honorable court.” The town council of Great Falls knows where to look for both divine and legal guidance.
While Great Falls chews on its defeat, the plaintiff Wynne seeks surcease. Her home has been vandalized nine times. Hoodlums have killed her cat and hanged its gutted body. Someone put sand in the gas tank of her truck. Townspeople have ostracized her. Even so, she comes across over the telephone as the most cheerful Witch I ever met. My acquaintance is limited, to be sure, but in this one I stand on the lady’s side.
http://www.thestate.com/mld/state/news/ ... 378079.htm
A Wiccan wins one in South Carolina
If you ask politely, Darla Kaye Wynne will acknowledge that she is indeed a Wiccan, which is to say, a Witch — but a Witch in the same uppercase way that Muslims are Islamic and Baptists are Christians. Her religious beliefs are rooted in pagan rites that antedate Christianity by a thousand years. Sad to say, some good Christians in Chester County have treated her in a most un-Christian way.
Perhaps her troubles will ease now that the 4th U.S. Circuit has ruled in her favor. Then again, maybe not. A huge part of the history of religion is a history of bigotry, zealotry and gross intolerance of nonbelievers. South Carolinians are probably no better and no worse than humankind everywhere.
Wynne’s story is not especially novel, and the 4th Circuit’s opinion of July 22 is not exactly a landmark in the field of First Amendment jurisprudence. Nonetheless, the case merits a few minutes of your time.
The story begins in 1997, when Wynne moved from the cold climes of Alaska to the warmer fields of South Carolina. She was single, aged 33. She found employment as a home-care aide and driver for Alzheimer’s patients. With her parrot, her Yorkshire terrier and two pet raccoons, she settled in Great Falls (pop. 2,194), some 40 miles north of Columbia. Largely out of curiosity, she began attending monthly meetings of the town council. Usually fewer than a dozen citizens showed up.
The meetings always opened with prayer. Everyone would stand and bow his head. Typically, one of the councilmen would ask “our heavenly Father” to guide them to beneficial decisions. “In the name of Jesus Christ, we pray. Amen.”
Wynne tried to show respect, but she grew increasingly uncomfortable. She asked Mayor Henry Clayton Starnes for a nonsectarian invocation. He refused. She suggested a rotation of local ministers. No way.
Once she stayed outside the council’s meeting room until the prayer ended. She was told she had waived her scheduled opportunity to speak. A councilman asked for a public hearing on her protests and her proposed alternatives. A hundred townspeople turned out to support the status quo. Several Christian ministers filed statements defending the council’s policy. Cries were heard of “Hallelujah!” The mayor told Wynne: “This is the way we’ve always done things, and we’re not going to change.”
Finally she brought suit in U.S. District Court, not for money damages, but for an injunction against patently sectarian invocations. Backed by the American Jewish Congress and the American Civil Liberties Union, she won. The town appealed to the 4th Circuit. She won again. Circuit Judge Diana Gribbon Motz spoke for a three-judge panel in ruling that the council’s invocations clearly advanced one faith in preference to others.
Judge Motz distinguished Wynne’s case from the often-cited case of Marsh v. Chambers. In that case, the Supreme Court in 1983 narrowly approved prayers to open sessions of the state legislature in Nebraska. She said: “The invocations at issue here, which specifically call upon Jesus Christ, are simply not constitutionally acceptable legislative prayer like that in Marsh.” As part of the council’s public business, it may not ritually seek guidance “from a deity in whose divinity only those of one faith believe.”
The Great Falls Council, Motz wrote, remains free to engage in nonsectarian invocations prior to its meetings. “The opportunity to do so may provide a source of strength to believers, and a time of quiet reflection for all. This opportunity does not, however, provide the town council, or any other legislative body, license to advance its own religious views in preference to all others, as the town council did here.”
This strikes me as a sound exposition of Establishment Clause jurisprudence. The Constitution says that Congress (and by extension, the states) shall make “no law” respecting an establishment of religion, but “no law” hasn’t meant literally “no law” since the day the ink dried on the founders’ labor. It is a passing irony that the Supreme Court itself begins its session by asking God to save “the United States and this honorable court.” The town council of Great Falls knows where to look for both divine and legal guidance.
While Great Falls chews on its defeat, the plaintiff Wynne seeks surcease. Her home has been vandalized nine times. Hoodlums have killed her cat and hanged its gutted body. Someone put sand in the gas tank of her truck. Townspeople have ostracized her. Even so, she comes across over the telephone as the most cheerful Witch I ever met. My acquaintance is limited, to be sure, but in this one I stand on the lady’s side.
- Akaran_D
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We teach tolerance.
Don't blame my religion because some people pick and choose parts of it to follow and ignore the rest. They are not following the tenants and it isn't our fault. It's not acceptable and I would gladly defend this person - as I would any person - being persecuted by followers of Christianity because that is not what we are supposed to do.
It's no more our fault than it is the fault of the democratic party if one of their members votes for a republican bill on a party issue or the like.
edited to rant more.
Don't blame my religion because some people pick and choose parts of it to follow and ignore the rest. They are not following the tenants and it isn't our fault. It's not acceptable and I would gladly defend this person - as I would any person - being persecuted by followers of Christianity because that is not what we are supposed to do.
It's no more our fault than it is the fault of the democratic party if one of their members votes for a republican bill on a party issue or the like.
edited to rant more.
Last edited by Akaran_D on August 14, 2004, 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Akaran of Mistmoore, formerly Akaran of Veeshan
I know I'm good at what I do, but I know I'm not the best.
But I guess that on the other hand, I could be like the rest.
I know I'm good at what I do, but I know I'm not the best.
But I guess that on the other hand, I could be like the rest.
Its not your fault, or your religions fault.Akaran_D wrote:We teach tolerance.
Don't blame my religion because some people pick and choose parts of it to follow and ignore the rest. They are not following the tenants and it isn't our fault. It's not acceptable and I would gladly defand this person - as I would any person - being persecuted by followers of Christianity because that is not what we are supposed to do.
It's no more our fault than it is the fault of the democratic party if one of their members votes for a republican bill on a party issue or the like.
edited to rant more.
But unfortunately most people in your religion(specially the leaders) are intolerant ignorant assholes and fucking morons
-xzionis human mage on mannoroth
-zeltharath tauren shaman on wildhammer
-zeltharath tauren shaman on wildhammer
- Akaran_D
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Xzion:
I actually wish general Christianity had a clear order of leadership among it's followers, much like Catholicism. Someone to come out and condemn such acts and to handle the media, ect.
We don't exactly have that. /meh
I actually wish general Christianity had a clear order of leadership among it's followers, much like Catholicism. Someone to come out and condemn such acts and to handle the media, ect.
We don't exactly have that. /meh
Akaran of Mistmoore, formerly Akaran of Veeshan
I know I'm good at what I do, but I know I'm not the best.
But I guess that on the other hand, I could be like the rest.
I know I'm good at what I do, but I know I'm not the best.
But I guess that on the other hand, I could be like the rest.
If you had that, unfortunatley the christians would most likely nominate some fucking douchebag like Jerry FalwellAkaran_D wrote:Xzion:
I actually wish general Christianity had a clear order of leadership among it's followers, much like Catholicism. Someone to come out and condemn such acts and to handle the media, ect.
We don't exactly have that. /meh
but a good christian leader would for sure be a plus
-xzionis human mage on mannoroth
-zeltharath tauren shaman on wildhammer
-zeltharath tauren shaman on wildhammer
- Akaran_D
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Yeah, was just thinking that.
/sigh again
/sigh again
Akaran of Mistmoore, formerly Akaran of Veeshan
I know I'm good at what I do, but I know I'm not the best.
But I guess that on the other hand, I could be like the rest.
I know I'm good at what I do, but I know I'm not the best.
But I guess that on the other hand, I could be like the rest.
- Niffoni
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I'm sure there are some who believe that Christianity is responsible for this sort of behavior, but they're no better than anyone who blamed Islam for 9/11. The truth is that people are assholes, and religeon just happens to be a popular excuse to act like one.
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all. - Douglas Adams
Christians have historically been the most blood thirsty of all religious cults.
Nothing changes.
Nothing changes.
She Dreams in Digital
\"Led Zeppelin taught an entire generation of young men how to make love, if they just listen\"- Michael Reed(2005)
\"Led Zeppelin taught an entire generation of young men how to make love, if they just listen\"- Michael Reed(2005)
- Acies
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I would say Greedy from a historical perspective would be more acurate. Sorry, Thugie cults in India have my vote for most bloodthirsty when doing mass to Kali.Kylere wrote:Christians have historically been the most blood thirsty of all religious cults.
Nothing changes.
I agree with you Arakan. Many religions teach tolerance and love and acceptance. Unfortunately people screw up the message frequently. Well, hopefully those people will find a good home on their own special level of hell to contimplate using god's name to promote wickedness.
Bujinkan is teh win!
Bah, as much as i hate to do this, i gotta agree with Kylere on this one. Looking historically Christianity, theyre the most bloodthirsty religion.
Look at the crusades for example. Lets call a holy crusade to beat up some non-believers. Oh, and by the way, while you move across europe towards Jerusalem, feel free to pillage, murder, and rape, its ok, its in the name of God. Historians estimate that 60% of the casualties during the crusades were other christians in europe that happened to live in areas where the army went through.
Look at the crusades for example. Lets call a holy crusade to beat up some non-believers. Oh, and by the way, while you move across europe towards Jerusalem, feel free to pillage, murder, and rape, its ok, its in the name of God. Historians estimate that 60% of the casualties during the crusades were other christians in europe that happened to live in areas where the army went through.
"Terrorism is the war of the poor, and war is the terrorism of the rich"
http://www.aclusc.org/Page/Clipping/Lan ... pherd.html
However, if I went to a town meeting in Saudi Arabia and then complained about the use of Allah in the prayers, how long would it be before my head was laying on the floor 6 feet from my body?
I'm not saying her treatment is right, but this lady don't sound too smart to me. Do you suppose maybe the ACLU put her up to this?
I don't think this lady deserved all the grief and b.s. people have given her!Jesus' name to stay in prayers
By Jamey Shepherd - Staff Writer
Thursday, August 12, 2004
Lancaster City Councilman John Howard says he won't abide by a recent court ruling that bars elected officials from using the name Jesus Christ in prayers before meetings.
"They'd better go ahead and send for the U.S. marshals for me," Howard said. "They'll have to take me out in handcuffs."
Howard said he has no idea how others on Lancaster City Council feel about last month's ruling by a three-judge panel of the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, but said he'll continue to pray the way he always has when it's his turn to say prayers at City Council meeting. Howard said he uses the name Jesus Christ in all his prayers.
County Council Chairman Rudy Carter said he always invokes the name Jesus Christ when he prays and he'll continue to do so, including at council meetings.
"I think it's an infringement of my rights to tell me that I can't invoke the name of Jesus Christ in a prayer when the prayer that's being said is from me, Rudy Carter," he said.
"I'm not saying I don't have respect for other people's beliefs - I do, but I'm going to invoke Jesus Christ's name when I pray, just as I always have."
Carter said he doesn't know how other members of County Council feel about this issue. There has been no discussion about the prayer ruling and Carter said he doesn't know whether there will be one.
Kershaw Mayor David Blackwell says he doesn't think Kershaw officials will change the way they pray before council meetings begin, either.
"Right now, we plan on doing things just as we've always done, and that's to have his name invoked," Blackwell said
Blackwell said there has been no discussion about the prayer ruling by Kershaw council members, but said he doubts any council member there would favor not mentioning Jesus Christ in opening prayers. Officials there typically invoke Jesus' name in prayers, Blackwell said. Heath Springs Mayor Ann Taylor said she's expecting the S.C. Municipal Association to offer municipal officials around the state advice on how to deal with the ruling.
She said there has been no discussion of the prayer issue by Heath Springs council members.
"I was hoping as long as we didn't make an issue out of it, it wouldn't become an issue," Taylor said.
She said prayers said at Heath Springs meetings are typically nice, simple, general prayers and she's not sure if all council members always invoke the name of Jesus Christ.
But since the ruling, Taylor said she thinks council members might adjust the way they pray publicly.
"I'm sure whomever I call on will be guarded in what they say," Taylor said. "We don't want to antagonize anybody."
The prayer ruling stems from a suit against Great Falls Town Council in Chester County.
In 2001, Darla Kaye Wynne, who practices the Earth-centered Wicca religion, sued the Great Falls council for invoking Jesus Christ's name during meetings. Wynne said council members used the prayers to draw attention to her religious beliefs and ostracize her.
Great Falls Town Council hasn't used the name of Jesus Christ in prayers since a year ago, when U.S. District Judge Cameron McGowan of Rock Hill ruled the prayers violated the First Amendment's establishment of a religious clause. Great Falls appealed that decision, but the 4th Circuit Court denied the appeal July 22.
The court's decision directly affects what goes on in Bible Belt states, including South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia and West Virginia.
But Great Falls Town Council is now fighting that decision, seeking a rehearing on the issue.
S.C. Attorney General Henry McMaster announced this week that the state will help the town of Great Falls in its appeal.
"If the panel's rule stands, courts will inevitably plunge headlong into the thorny thicket of prayer content review," McMaster argues in his motion. "Such content-based review raises serious free speech and free exercise problems under the First Amendment."
Officials from many government bodies in South Carolina have said they don't intend to abide by the federal court ruling.
The Associated Press contributed to this story
Contact Jamey Shepherd at 283-1158 or jshepherd@thelancasternews.com
Original version: http://www.thelancasternews.com/article ... rayers.txt
However, if I went to a town meeting in Saudi Arabia and then complained about the use of Allah in the prayers, how long would it be before my head was laying on the floor 6 feet from my body?
I'm not saying her treatment is right, but this lady don't sound too smart to me. Do you suppose maybe the ACLU put her up to this?
Okay let me amend that Acies, The most bloodthirsty while being in denial of the fact cult of all time.Acies wrote:I would say Greedy from a historical perspective would be more acurate. Sorry, Thugie cults in India have my vote for most bloodthirsty when doing mass to Kali.Kylere wrote:Christians have historically been the most blood thirsty of all religious cults.
Nothing changes.
I agree with you Arakan. Many religions teach tolerance and love and acceptance. Unfortunately people screw up the message frequently. Well, hopefully those people will find a good home on their own special level of hell to contimplate using god's name to promote wickedness.
She Dreams in Digital
\"Led Zeppelin taught an entire generation of young men how to make love, if they just listen\"- Michael Reed(2005)
\"Led Zeppelin taught an entire generation of young men how to make love, if they just listen\"- Michael Reed(2005)
- Pherr the Dorf
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No need to backtrack, the Inquistion was the largest genocide in relation to world population ever seen in the history of man, that does not include the crusades, and don't get me started on the pope and the jews in WW2, or him blessing the first bombs to be dropped on Ethiopia because the leader of the country claimed to be the son of God and a direct decendant of King David. Thuggie cults in India never sent children on a stupid war (The Childrens Crusade)to liberate Jerusalem, they never wiped out the entire female population of counties in England and Spain, the rituals to Kali, while vile and incredibly bloodthirsty, lacked in comparison.Kylere wrote:Okay let me amend that Acies, The most bloodthirsty while being in denial of the fact cult of all time.Acies wrote:I would say Greedy from a historical perspective would be more acurate. Sorry, Thugie cults in India have my vote for most bloodthirsty when doing mass to Kali.Kylere wrote:Christians have historically been the most blood thirsty of all religious cults.
Nothing changes.
I agree with you Arakan. Many religions teach tolerance and love and acceptance. Unfortunately people screw up the message frequently. Well, hopefully those people will find a good home on their own special level of hell to contimplate using god's name to promote wickedness.
The first duty of a patriot is to question the government
Jefferson
Jefferson
This statement is inaccurate applied to me, it is just the one with a foundation of faith I agree with, but that possesses horrible followers.Rekaar. wrote:Christianity (as broad as that is) is just the religion who's history you know the most about.
She Dreams in Digital
\"Led Zeppelin taught an entire generation of young men how to make love, if they just listen\"- Michael Reed(2005)
\"Led Zeppelin taught an entire generation of young men how to make love, if they just listen\"- Michael Reed(2005)
I firmly believe religion is a very good idea, sadly it is an undeniable fact that all of its aspects can be tampered by man.
We have Christianity (one which I was a devout follower of in my youth, as a lot of people were) which has the principal of a single great being, or God. Seems fair enough. But, then we have the bible, a book many Christians base (or "pick and choose") their beliefs on. However, a book is a creation of man, if there is something someone doesnt like in it, it can be omitted, or reinterpreted.
Not to pick on Christianity, but the same can be said for any faith.
Sadly, the good points are never looked at when it comes to faith (in the media anyway). Its either "Jesus-Freaks Go on Gun Rampage", or "Extremist Muslims Slaughter Our Troops". When did we last hear about the man who found the will to live again after finding Buddha.
We have Christianity (one which I was a devout follower of in my youth, as a lot of people were) which has the principal of a single great being, or God. Seems fair enough. But, then we have the bible, a book many Christians base (or "pick and choose") their beliefs on. However, a book is a creation of man, if there is something someone doesnt like in it, it can be omitted, or reinterpreted.
Not to pick on Christianity, but the same can be said for any faith.
Sadly, the good points are never looked at when it comes to faith (in the media anyway). Its either "Jesus-Freaks Go on Gun Rampage", or "Extremist Muslims Slaughter Our Troops". When did we last hear about the man who found the will to live again after finding Buddha.
It could be that the only purpose for your every existence, is to serve as a warning to others.
Buddhism (although i am somewhat ignorant on it) is one of the only religions i respect. It from what i understand has a very peaceful history and its followers are open-minded and true to themselves. It isnt a religion based on a wrathful punishing god but a peaceful and eutopic lifeforce.Cotto wrote:I firmly believe religion is a very good idea, sadly it is an undeniable fact that all of its aspects can be tampered by man.
We have Christianity (one which I was a devout follower of in my youth, as a lot of people were) which has the principal of a single great being, or God. Seems fair enough. But, then we have the bible, a book many Christians base (or "pick and choose") their beliefs on. However, a book is a creation of man, if there is something someone doesnt like in it, it can be omitted, or reinterpreted.
Not to pick on Christianity, but the same can be said for any faith.
Sadly, the good points are never looked at when it comes to faith (in the media anyway). Its either "Jesus-Freaks Go on Gun Rampage", or "Extremist Muslims Slaughter Our Troops". When did we last hear about the man who found the will to live again after finding Buddha.
Although for the most part i am strongly against established religion (not on a legal basis) and believe the world would be a much much much better place without established religion.
"faith" is something you have to find, it cant be taught or engraved in your skull at a young age. "the truth" imo is a constant quest one must always be searching for, for one can never find there true purpose in this life. I dont understand how people can create "god" in there image and worship "him" as a "higher power". The way i see it (at the moment) is that there is no higher or lower power, but a great eterna; lifeforce that connects all life, and that life itself is an unbreakable force that will continue and has always existed in one form or another threw out time.
I am very thankful i was able to break away from Christianity at a young age, that my grandparents tried to teach me
Established religion is largely built for the blind, the ignorant, the insecure and power hungry assholes. History speaks for itself on the following references.
...ehh excuse the ranting, just a boring ass Saturday night and there’s nothing to do being that most people dont have any power and there’s fucking trees lying around anywhere
-xzionis human mage on mannoroth
-zeltharath tauren shaman on wildhammer
-zeltharath tauren shaman on wildhammer
- Karae
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My impression of Buddhism, I have done a moderate amount of research but am not a praticing Buddhist, is that it is a relgion centered around self-improvement - specifically through guided meditation. It is not about the worship of a God, but rather a methodology for improving oneself. I think it's great for people who need that kind of clear guidance.
I wouldn't even call it a religion...more a way of living.
I wouldn't even call it a religion...more a way of living.
War pickles men in a brine of disgust and dread.
Eliminate stupid people, that will really solve the problems.Drasta wrote:religion just needs to be abolished that would fix prolly 60% of the problems on earth
PS. This was sarcasm directed at Drasta. I'm sure many of you won't get it, so in the interest of Fairness I wanted to make this explicit disclaimer. I don't believe in disciminating against the mentally challenged.
- Acies
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True enough. *sigh* I cannot believe the level of human intolerance sometimes. Makes you wonder exactly how thin our skins really are when all the chips are down.Pherr the Dorf wrote:No need to backtrack, the Inquistion was the largest genocide in relation to world population ever seen in the history of man, that does not include the crusades, and don't get me started on the pope and the jews in WW2, or him blessing the first bombs to be dropped on Ethiopia because the leader of the country claimed to be the son of God and a direct decendant of King David. Thuggie cults in India never sent children on a stupid war (The Childrens Crusade)to liberate Jerusalem, they never wiped out the entire female population of counties in England and Spain, the rituals to Kali, while vile and incredibly bloodthirsty, lacked in comparison.Kylere wrote:Okay let me amend that Acies, The most bloodthirsty while being in denial of the fact cult of all time.Acies wrote:I would say Greedy from a historical perspective would be more acurate. Sorry, Thugie cults in India have my vote for most bloodthirsty when doing mass to Kali.Kylere wrote:Christians have historically been the most blood thirsty of all religious cults.
Nothing changes.
I agree with you Arakan. Many religions teach tolerance and love and acceptance. Unfortunately people screw up the message frequently. Well, hopefully those people will find a good home on their own special level of hell to contimplate using god's name to promote wickedness.
Bujinkan is teh win!
yea
God should have never taught religion to humans, cuz god knew that people cant handle that kind of information. He knew that humans would take the wrong ideas and kill over it. Since there are multiple religions , there were multiple gods telling people different stories. I have yet to find god therefore i dont believe most of the words of god on earth right now and neither should anyone else. If stupid fuckin nuns and christian tv shows and PARENTS would stop brainwashing their children and toddlers b4 they have a mind or an opinion of their own, maybe our world would be a lot more open minded and people could see passed normal bullshit put on by religion.
Yeah after they sacrificed her at the DNC, they wanted to tag her pets at the RNC.Animalor wrote:I heard that they were going to kill and gut her two racoons at the Republican National convention as an offering to Jesus to he will protect your nation and their convention.
She Dreams in Digital
\"Led Zeppelin taught an entire generation of young men how to make love, if they just listen\"- Michael Reed(2005)
\"Led Zeppelin taught an entire generation of young men how to make love, if they just listen\"- Michael Reed(2005)
And the modern way of buddhism in china and many other ountires is very polluted from it's original form since it blended OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS with Daoism and konfucianism.. the regular buddhist out in society worship several diffrent "gods" as incarnations of Siddharta before he became buddha ( Oddly enough he was never an ant or a snail.. just gods.. and big heroic men )

Because the Jewish community understands religious discrimation 6 million times over.Cracc wrote:Why exactly was the American jewish congress backing her?
She Dreams in Digital
\"Led Zeppelin taught an entire generation of young men how to make love, if they just listen\"- Michael Reed(2005)
\"Led Zeppelin taught an entire generation of young men how to make love, if they just listen\"- Michael Reed(2005)
- Adex_Xeda
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Those guys really blew it.
The lady was obviously uncomfortable and offered to compromise with them. Those guys didn't do anything to meet her half way.
If I was mayor I think just having a moment of silence out of respect for that lady would be the right thing to do.
It's not christainity or religion that roots society's evil,
it's selfishness.
Those people were selfish to the point of hurting another.
The lady was obviously uncomfortable and offered to compromise with them. Those guys didn't do anything to meet her half way.
If I was mayor I think just having a moment of silence out of respect for that lady would be the right thing to do.
It's not christainity or religion that roots society's evil,
it's selfishness.
Those people were selfish to the point of hurting another.
The terrorist on sept.11 werent selfish.Adex_Xeda wrote:Those guys really blew it.
The lady was obviously uncomfortable and offered to compromise with them. Those guys didn't do anything to meet her half way.
If I was mayor I think just having a moment of silence out of respect for that lady would be the right thing to do.
It's not christainity or religion that roots society's evil,
it's selfishness.
Those people were selfish to the point of hurting another.
They actually thought they were doing a noble deed by killing over 3000 "heretics" and would go down in history as great matyrs/saints/servants of "almighty god"
-xzionis human mage on mannoroth
-zeltharath tauren shaman on wildhammer
-zeltharath tauren shaman on wildhammer
- Adex_Xeda
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All I'm saying is people use religion as a cop out for acting in selfish ways.
The people in that city council were being selfish to the point of hurting another.
The trade center bombers were being selfish to the point of hurting others.
The root is human selfishness. Vary the magnitude of selfishness and you vary the destructive effect.
The people in that city council were being selfish to the point of hurting another.
The trade center bombers were being selfish to the point of hurting others.
The root is human selfishness. Vary the magnitude of selfishness and you vary the destructive effect.
- Niffoni
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I hope nobody honestly thinks that removing religeon from the equation would solve anything, or prevent this sort of thing in any way. Like Adex said, it's only the excuse. Remove it and people would find some other concept to hide behind *coughPATRIOTISMcough* in order to continue being pricks.
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all. - Douglas Adams
or Justice.
Sadly we have to accept that there will NEVER be peace, at all, in any form. People will always hate, envy, fear other people. It may not be displayed in mass carpet-bombings. But we will never achieve a state of pure peace, there are always "acceptable losses".
Getting rid of stupid people wont help either, cause smart people are worse. They think of new ways to hurt or oppress others.
Sadly we have to accept that there will NEVER be peace, at all, in any form. People will always hate, envy, fear other people. It may not be displayed in mass carpet-bombings. But we will never achieve a state of pure peace, there are always "acceptable losses".
Getting rid of stupid people wont help either, cause smart people are worse. They think of new ways to hurt or oppress others.
It could be that the only purpose for your every existence, is to serve as a warning to others.
It's funny, I saw a lady in the grocery store last week wearing a Wiccan symbol on her neck, and I smiled at her and talked to her for a few minutes. One of the things I said was "as a Wiccan, you must be very lonely around here" (here being Houston). She sighed and nodded her head, but said she was proud of her faith and despite a lot of problems with Christians she will not hide her faith.
I think it's sad that so many Christians, especially in Texas and the "Bible Belt" use their faith as a way to justify being boorish, ignorant, narrowminded and mean. I can't count the number of times I've been cut off on the highway, flipped off, and nudged to the shoulder on bike rides by people with "Jesus fish" on their SUVs. To many people, being overtly Christian and being "saved" justifies bad behaviour of all types, from being selfish and indifferent to those around you to having extramarital affairs. Many of these people are in for a treat when their own time to be judged comes.
I think it's sad that so many Christians, especially in Texas and the "Bible Belt" use their faith as a way to justify being boorish, ignorant, narrowminded and mean. I can't count the number of times I've been cut off on the highway, flipped off, and nudged to the shoulder on bike rides by people with "Jesus fish" on their SUVs. To many people, being overtly Christian and being "saved" justifies bad behaviour of all types, from being selfish and indifferent to those around you to having extramarital affairs. Many of these people are in for a treat when their own time to be judged comes.
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And I can't count the number of times I have been cut off, and flipped off by people without "Jesus fish" on their SUVs. Why is it only the Christians that you are singling out here?Tenuvil wrote:I can't count the number of times I've been cut off on the highway, flipped off, and nudged to the shoulder on bike rides by people with "Jesus fish" on their SUVs.
Any "Christian" who feels being saved gives them the right to be an ass isn't getting the point of being a Christian, and they need to look at themselves to see how they can follow the teachings in a proper way.Tenuvil wrote:To many people, being overtly Christian and being "saved" justifies bad behaviour of all types, from being selfish and indifferent to those around you to having extramarital affairs.
Actually the thing is if they truely believe in their heart that Jesus died for them and was raised from the dead it doesn't matter. That is pretty much the point of Jesus dieing for the sins of humanity.Tenuvil wrote:Many of these people are in for a treat when their own time to be judged comes.
Sabek
Just Sabek

Just Sabek

- Pherr the Dorf
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http://www.wsoctv.com/family/3651369/detail.html
BRIELLE, N.J. -- An 8-year-old girl who has a rare digestive disorder and cannot consume wheat has had her first Communion declared invalid because the wafer contained none.
Now, Haley Waldman's mother is pushing the Diocese of Trenton and the Vatican to make an exception, saying the sacrament should be changed to accommodate the girl's condition.
Roman Catholic doctrine holds that communion wafers must have at least some unleavened wheat, as did the bread served at the Last Supper of Jesus Christ before his crucifixion.
In May, the girl received her her first Holy Communion from a priest who offered her a wheat-free host. But last month, the diocese told the priest that Waldman's sacrament would not be validated by the church because of the substitute wafer
The first duty of a patriot is to question the government
Jefferson
Jefferson
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Again Christ didn't demand it. The Roman Catholic church demanded. Don't throw all Christians into the same boat with the Roman Catholics. The Roman Catholic church is overrun with outdated tenets.Hesten wrote:Well, it IS a religion where some of the more extremist members crucify themselves.
So lets just give the 8 year old kid a communion shell most likely risk dying from, no biggie, because Christ demanded it
Sabek
Just Sabek

Just Sabek

- Jice Virago
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Christian religions have perpetuated more violence, intollerance, and inspired more bloodthirsty maniacs than any other faith in world history. This is indisputable. It is certainly true that Stalin was an atheist and killed a lot of his own people in purging the USSR of opposition. However, crispies have Hitler, the Inquisition, the Crusades, the KKK, the Holy Roman Empire, and those are just some of the highlights. There is no shortange of intollerance or bloodthirsty behavior today, with GW claiming he was chosen by god to lead us in war and numerous dug in fanatical groups trying to push back the teaching of evolution (and other sciences) and pressing for anti-gay laws.
Whether religion is actually the cause of all this violence is irrelivant. It is the tool by which manipulative people with an agenda press the masses into the fold. Every time a child is taught that bombing an abortion clinic is god's work, told to ignore scientific facts, or trained to view certain minorities as destined for eternal damnation, the cycle perpetuates itself and spreads like a cancer across humanity. People are far too stupid to reject such superstitions, but if they were able to open their eyes and see that there is no need of some mystical boogeyman to tell them right from wrong, the world would be a better place.
Whether religion is actually the cause of all this violence is irrelivant. It is the tool by which manipulative people with an agenda press the masses into the fold. Every time a child is taught that bombing an abortion clinic is god's work, told to ignore scientific facts, or trained to view certain minorities as destined for eternal damnation, the cycle perpetuates itself and spreads like a cancer across humanity. People are far too stupid to reject such superstitions, but if they were able to open their eyes and see that there is no need of some mystical boogeyman to tell them right from wrong, the world would be a better place.
War is an option whose time has passed. Peace is the only option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous no-man's-land between peace and war, a time of growing fear that our military might has expanded beyond our capacity to control it and our political differences widened beyond our ability to bridge them. . . .
Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."
Dwight Eisenhower
Short of changing human nature, therefore, the only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.
--RICHARD M. NIXON, "REAL PEACE" (1983)
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, represents, in the final analysis, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children."
Dwight Eisenhower
- Adex_Xeda
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What you are saying isn't correct Jice.
Unfortunately it would take a 5 pages to address all of the accusations and false assumptions.
Hitler was in to Germanic mysticism and scientific eugenics, his god was social darwinism.
The Spanish Inquisition was the very first victim of slanderous press due to the recent invention of the printing press and the kingdom's inability to address the mass produced anti Inquisition propaganda. If you compared the Inquisition to other medivial groups at that time you'd find them rather mild. Half of what you hear comes from those early propaganda pamphlets.
There were multiple crusades, most of which had little to do with christainity and much more to do with power plays at the time.
The KKK is denounced by all christians. It is impossible to harbor blind racism and have a serious commitment to God at the same time.
The Holy Roman Empire was the frilly title chosen by Germanic kings who sought to restore a unified Europe (just like every other major kingdom at that time.). They used the trappings of christianity like all major european kingdoms during those years to further their power. They were not a church.
Christians by in large are a part of this world and accept the benefits of science and use it as a tool. Some of the greatest nourishment and contributions to the body of science were generated by christian institutions. Your statement that christians by in large reject the utility of science is not correct.
Blindly applying all of the world's problems to christianity is a cover for your personal distaste for christainity.
I can understand the base replusiveness of the concept forwarded by christainity. It represents a concept of a higher authority over all of us, and no one likes to be told that they are accountable to someone else. Everyone wants to be their own god.
Why not leave the the rejection at that pure level? I reject christianity and other religions because I refuse to be accountable to anyone or anything but myself?
Speak your heart rather than lumping up poorly considered evidence. Jeffrey Dalmer, and Charles Manson were Americans. Shall we now claim that all Americans are the source of evil by forwarding them as the example of typical America? You can make the argument, but it isn't an arguement in good standing with the truth.
Likewise your examples of christianity are not clearly connected to the truth.
Unfortunately it would take a 5 pages to address all of the accusations and false assumptions.
Hitler was in to Germanic mysticism and scientific eugenics, his god was social darwinism.
The Spanish Inquisition was the very first victim of slanderous press due to the recent invention of the printing press and the kingdom's inability to address the mass produced anti Inquisition propaganda. If you compared the Inquisition to other medivial groups at that time you'd find them rather mild. Half of what you hear comes from those early propaganda pamphlets.
There were multiple crusades, most of which had little to do with christainity and much more to do with power plays at the time.
The KKK is denounced by all christians. It is impossible to harbor blind racism and have a serious commitment to God at the same time.
The Holy Roman Empire was the frilly title chosen by Germanic kings who sought to restore a unified Europe (just like every other major kingdom at that time.). They used the trappings of christianity like all major european kingdoms during those years to further their power. They were not a church.
Christians by in large are a part of this world and accept the benefits of science and use it as a tool. Some of the greatest nourishment and contributions to the body of science were generated by christian institutions. Your statement that christians by in large reject the utility of science is not correct.
Blindly applying all of the world's problems to christianity is a cover for your personal distaste for christainity.
I can understand the base replusiveness of the concept forwarded by christainity. It represents a concept of a higher authority over all of us, and no one likes to be told that they are accountable to someone else. Everyone wants to be their own god.
Why not leave the the rejection at that pure level? I reject christianity and other religions because I refuse to be accountable to anyone or anything but myself?
Speak your heart rather than lumping up poorly considered evidence. Jeffrey Dalmer, and Charles Manson were Americans. Shall we now claim that all Americans are the source of evil by forwarding them as the example of typical America? You can make the argument, but it isn't an arguement in good standing with the truth.
Likewise your examples of christianity are not clearly connected to the truth.
- Pherr the Dorf
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To say that the Inquisition was propganda is about as valid as those that say the concentration camps were propoganda, in fact it is echos it in a very very eerie way.Adex_Xeda wrote:What you are saying isn't correct Jice.
The Spanish Inquisition was the very first victim of slanderous press due to the recent invention of the printing press and the kingdom's inability to address the mass produced anti Inquisition propaganda. If you compared the Inquisition to other medivial groups at that time you'd find them rather mild. Half of what you hear comes from those early propaganda pamphlets.
The two are not mutually exclusiveThere were multiple crusades, most of which had little to do with christainity and much more to do with power plays at the time.
The first duty of a patriot is to question the government
Jefferson
Jefferson