Most dominating active athlete!

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 8, 2004, 12:32 am

Let me know what y'all think and if I missed anyone! Would also like to hear your reasons for your vote.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 8, 2004, 12:45 am

Someone vote for Mia Hamm so I can lie and say I voted for her!

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » July 8, 2004, 12:48 am

Toss up for me.

Brett Favre (GB Packers Football) has made an otherwise mediocre offense and weak ass reciever corps a yearly superbowl contender. He has picked apart some of the greatest defenses in the history of pro football and never missed a start in his career. He is probably the most universally respected pro football player still active, and definitely among the most widely liked.

Shaq- Take away Shaq and LA would have had zero championships. The Lakers were complete shit whenever he was injured and they will resume their fecal status when he leaves in the offseason, even if they managed to keep the entire rest of their team.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » July 8, 2004, 12:59 am

Bonds- Changes the game every time he picks up a bat

Armstrong- What can you say

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » July 8, 2004, 1:10 am

Scott Rolen is the most dominant player in baseball right now. Bonds is the most consistent over a long period of time, though.

I won't pretend that I pay attention to other sports

noel · Post by **noel** » July 8, 2004, 1:17 am

I get the feeling I'm being baited, but what the hell...

Tossup for me between Lance and Barry Bonds. I think Bonds is more consistently dominating throughout his season, but you don't really have periodization in Baseball, so training for it is a bit different.

Additionally, there's a huge asterisk next to Bonds' name. My vote goes to Lance.

Trek · Post by **Trek** » July 8, 2004, 1:37 am

I had to pick Gagne 84 in a row is very impressive if you think about what must happen. With HR's as easy as they are are being a division rival of Barry you would think he would have blown it a lot sooner, even if you put his blown saves in for his career he is 129sv in 134 chances. For what it is that is pretty impressive in my oppinion. Lance is right there to, but not being a cycling fan or participant its hard to guage him for me...

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » July 8, 2004, 1:42 am

noel wrote:
Additionally, there's a huge asterisk next to Bonds' name. My vote goes to Lance.

Honestly, bigger then the one next to Lance's? I dare say the 2 are pretty much in the same boat, every test clean, being made guilty by association.

Tenuvil · Post by **Tenuvil** » July 8, 2004, 2:44 am

Lance all the way. Nobody else in this poll except maybe Bonds comes close to having accomplished what he has, PLUS came back from death's door to do so.

Karae · Post by **Karae** » July 8, 2004, 4:19 am

It's a no brainer - it's Schumacher.

I realize Formula 1 doesn't get much play in the U.S., but he's won 7 World Championships in the last decade - including the last 5 straight. Finishing second twice, due to mechanical failures in the last race of the season in a Ferrari that had been unreliable the entire season, and 5th once despite missing half the season due to a broken leg. He holds the Fastest Lap record at more than half of the current Formula 1 tracks, and several former tracks. He has the most wins in a career (79 wins - next closest 51), most championships all-time, most consecutive championships, most wins in a season (11 out of 17, twice), and is the youngest ever to become champion. He has won 9 out of 10 races in the current season, has already clinched the world championship with 7 races remaining, and will almost assuredly break his single season win record.

Not even Armstrong can boast that kind of dominance...he's arguably not even the most dominant in the history of his sport. He's just tying records now, Schumacher has already broken every major Formula 1 record after just 13 seasons (actually he broke/tied most of them after 10), and is now proceeding to extend them to marks that are likely to last at least a generation.

I can't believe I'm the only one that got this question right so far...

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 8, 2004, 4:43 am

I voted for Lance. Race car drivers don't count. They aren't athletes.

Shaq might get some votes but he has a freak body and it's not really based on talent.

Barry Bonds might get some votes but he's the only baseball player with an anatomically correct bobblehead toy. (best joke from caller on Rome I've heard in awhile)

Cycling's a bitch. I'll take Lance's consecutive win streak over someone inside a metal box.

If this poll is counting race car drivers than I'm sure were missing other atheletes like tiddlywink players.

VariaVespasa · Post by **VariaVespasa** » July 8, 2004, 6:31 am

Ya, race car drivers arent athletes. Its a sport, but its not athletics.

*Hugs*
Varia

Karae · Post by **Karae** » July 8, 2004, 6:47 am

He's on the list and he's the most dominating, end of story.

I'm not going to argue semantics - racing is a sport. Taking a hairpin turn at 100 MPH and hitting G-forces of 6x the force of gravity a couple hundred times over a period of an hour and a half takes tremendous physical strength and conditioning. Racing drivers make reflex decisions in times rivaling baseball players attempting to hit 100 MPH fastballs, but instead of doing so a handful of times every other inning, or every third inning, they are doing so nearly continually for the 1.5 hour race. Formula 1 racing is easily as physically draining as any of the other sports listed and a lot more mentally draining. Despite your prejudices, racing qualifies.

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » July 8, 2004, 8:31 am

seriously, driving a race care (and being succesful) takes athletic ability.

Toss up between Lance Armstrong and Michael Schumacher

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 8, 2004, 9:09 am

Erh driving a race car is quite exhausting. Anyone claiming otherwise truly don't know what they are talking about. I very reluctantly added Nascar though, since it is generally viewed that F1 takes a LOT more skills and the best drivers move there when given a chance. Also, only way to get better acceleration and turning G's than a F1 is in a fighterjet heh.

And talking about racing.. I should probably have added Rossi, although I doubt anyone except Moto GP fanatics would know him (arguably best road racing motorcycle driver EVER).

Shaq - Freak body yes but he dominates like no other basketball player.

I'd be careful talking too much about asterisk next to Bonds and defend Lance fiercely. He might never have tested positively but his string of numbers just under 50.. heh.

Personally, I'd probably have to settle for Schumacher.. he dominates F1 to the point where it is now boring to watch. Second place is probably a split between Lance and Bonds with Phelps as an outsider.

Canoe · Post by **Canoe** » July 8, 2004, 10:07 am

Man a ton of good choices up there -

Bonds is great - but even he would get a run for his money if someone asked is he the best player in just baseball - never mind all sports.

Armstrong is an amazing athlete, and may be the most "dominating" currently (which I assume that's what this poll is about). If it isn't, than babe ruth etc should be up there.

Shaq - I don't think anyone would argue Shaq is by far the most dominating athlete in the game. You add him to your team, you have a guaranteed winning season, you couldn't say that about any other player in basketball.

Shumacher - Whoever said racing a car isn't a sport should get behind the wheel of a car and attempt to drive for just 1 hour (not 4), at 1/2 the speed that they do. They are athletes, and tremendous ones at that. I originally voted shaq - but I wish I hadn't - shumacher right now is hands down the most dominating within his sport.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » July 8, 2004, 10:46 am

Doesn't really seem fair. They are all tops in their sport but how would they fare in other sports? I can't say so n so is better because it is almost an apples and oranges kind of thing.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 8, 2004, 10:49 am

Only one I know of is Schumacher who plays soccer for a local team in Norway when he is at his cabin there. He is decent at it too. A-Rod seems like a natural athlete though, think he could do well in pretty much every sport.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » July 8, 2004, 10:58 am

Shumacher - Takes a ton of stamina and concentration to finish a race, much less win...that is enough to convince me.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 8, 2004, 11:34 am

Pherr the Dorf wrote:
noel wrote:
Additionally, there's a huge asterisk next to Bonds' name. My vote goes to Lance.
Honestly, bigger then the one next to Lance's? I dare say the 2 are pretty much in the same boat, every test clean, being made guilty by association.

Yes bigger than Lance due to the BALCO scandal and his close association to BALCO personnel. When Bonds is asked if he has used or is involved, his answer is always 'no comment'. Lance has emphatically stated that he does not and has gone after people who have asserted he has. Additionally, testing for MLB is not random, and is not a surprise for the athletes. Testing for Lance is constant and random, and he's watched like a hawk by most especially the French. It would be a national holiday in France if Lance were found using. Finally, drug tests for MLB are all urine tests. This year at the Tour de France the drug tests were blood tests which are far more accurate and last far longer.

Next topic. F-1 Racing is for certain a sport, and Shumacher kicks incredible amounts of ass. Having said that, equipment is far more a factor in F-1 than in any of the other sports, and it would be difficult to argue that Shumacher doesn't have better equipment than a majority of his rivals.

The question is also a matter of opinion and while each of us can make a compelling argument for their choice, there is no right answer, and it's also extremely difficult to compare between the sports.

The question wasn't whether or not the athlete was the most dominant in the history of their sport, so that's really irrelevant. Cycling in the past was a completely different from the way you trained to the way you competed. NO ONE will EVER beat the records set by Eddy Merckx who is by FAR the greatest cyclist of all time. That will NEVER happen again. Finally, from cyclinghalloffame.com, here is the ranking of all time cyclists and current cyclists, and Lance is clearly in the lead for active cyclists and in tenth place all time.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 8, 2004, 11:50 am

Equipment has quite a bit to say in F1.. but if you look at Schumacher's wins you will find that he won several titles when his Ferrari was not the dominant car. His driving in itself is simply amazing.

Plus, Lance is just a product of having the best team

*ducks*

noel · Post by **noel** » July 8, 2004, 11:54 am

Kelshara wrote:Equipment has quite a bit to say in F1.. but if you look at Schumacher's wins you will find that he won several titles when his Ferrari was not the dominant car. His driving in itself is simply amazing.

Plus, Lance is just a product of having the best team *ducks*

Not sure why you're ducking.

I'm sitting here watching the Tour thinking that Lance would be nothing without the team he has around him. Hell, they practically carried him to victory last year in all but a couple of stages. Cycling is so much more a team sport than most people appreciate, and Postal has become a monster of a team.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 8, 2004, 11:56 am

We had that discussion last year heh. Me being the underdog fan dislike a dominating team like that.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » July 8, 2004, 11:57 am

Jice Virago wrote:Toss up for me.

Brett Favre (GB Packers Football) has made an otherwise mediocre offense and weak ass reciever corps a yearly superbowl contender. He has picked apart some of the greatest defenses in the history of pro football and never missed a start in his career. He is probably the most universally respected pro football player still active, and definitely among the most widely liked.

Shaq- Take away Shaq and LA would have had zero championships. The Lakers were complete shit whenever he was injured and they will resume their fecal status when he leaves in the offseason, even if they managed to keep the entire rest of their team.

Jice the poll was most dominating active !!!! While Favre has had a decent carrer he is by no means dominate anymore hell he isint even in the top 5 in the NFL QB ratings anymore.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 8, 2004, 12:07 pm

Yeah that was why I did not list Favre. He is my favourite QB of all time, and he can still play with the best.. but he isn't dominating. Could be argued that since I said "dominating active athlete" he should be named because he DID dominate.. although alongside several other dominating QBs at the same time.

I did not list any male soccer players either, because frankly.. there isn't ONE dominating player. Zidane, Henry, and several others coudl all be listed there.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 8, 2004, 1:10 pm

So the definition of an athelete is you have to be exhausted? That rules out the precision necessary to get the tiddlywinks into the cup!

I need a better definition of what you mean by dominant athelete I think. If that means wins then I'd stick to Lance but Barry Bonds is the only athelete I know that completely alters games and can get walked with the bases loaded. (D-Backs walked him with bases loaded a few years ago)

It's hard to judge team sport dominance but Bonds would get my vote with his amazing on base percentage from being walked so many times by the opposition.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 8, 2004, 1:17 pm

Well I guess there isn't ONE definition really.. which is why there are so many answers given. The easiest way to define it would probably be "The person who dominats his or her chosen sport".

Spang · Post by **Spang** » July 8, 2004, 2:30 pm

i'm gonna use the write-in vote:

Tiger Woods

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 8, 2004, 2:35 pm

Spang wrote:i'm gonna use the write-in vote:

Tiger Woods

Tiger hasn't won a major in over two years. He's not even ranked number one anymore. Good call if this had been two years ago though.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 8, 2004, 2:45 pm

Spang wrote:i'm gonna use the write-in vote:

Tiger Woods

Maybe if he would swallow his pride and hire back his old swing coach he'd compete again, but he barely competes of late, and almost missed the cut at his last tournament.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » July 8, 2004, 2:45 pm

I disqualify Shcumacher because Formula 1 racing is heavily dependent upon the car that you drive. in NASCAR the cars are pretty close to being the same, thus you can more meaningfully compare the drivers. Schumacher is great, but he also has a superior car, the best financial backers, etc. Its like the Yankees. People act like Derek Jeter is a god. If he played for the Royals, he would be exposed as a relatively good (certainly not great) shortstop.

For instance if you put Shaq on the Memphis Grizzlies, they would instantly become a major contender in the east. If you put Lance Armstrong on another cycling team, he would probably still win the tour de France.

If you put Schumacher and all the other Formula 1 drivers in the same car, i think you'd see a lot more competition.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 8, 2004, 2:48 pm

Voronwë wrote:For instance if you put Shaq on the Memphis Grizzlies, they would instantly become a major contender in the east. If you put Lance Armstrong on another cycling team, he would probably still win the tour de France.

More like Shaq, the team would become a major contender to win (with him as the G.C. rider), but it would be difficult for him to win unless he went to like CSC. The US Postal team is REALLY good.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 8, 2004, 3:07 pm

Voronwë wrote:I disqualify Shcumacher because Formula 1 racing is heavily dependent upon the car that you drive.

no no no! The pit crew are all atheletes as well!...breaking it down further, the designer of the car is an athelete as they have a huge impact on the outcome as well.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » July 8, 2004, 3:10 pm

Every athlete is dependant on something or somebody else. Lance is dependent on his teammates and his bike designer. Schumacher is dependent on his pit crew and the car designer (note: He has won several years without having the best car). Shaq is dependent on his teammates (he has to be passed the ball to score heh). Hell even the swimmer I listed is dependent on his coach!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 8, 2004, 3:16 pm

Kelshara wrote:Every athlete is dependant on something or somebody else. Lance is dependent on his teammates and his bike designer. Schumacher is dependent on his pit crew and the car designer (note: He has won several years without having the best car). Shaq is dependent on his teammates (he has to be passed the ball to score heh). Hell even the swimmer I listed is dependent on his coach!

So you must factor in degree of dependence into the equation.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 8, 2004, 3:23 pm

Winnow wrote:So you must factor in degree of dependence into the equation.

This is news?

Spang · Post by **Spang** » July 8, 2004, 3:38 pm

Winnow wrote:Tiger hasn't won a major in over two years. He's not even ranked number one anymore. Good call if this had been two years ago though.

hmmm, good point. can take Randy Johnson off the list then. he isn't a dominating athlete anymore. can replace him with Roger Clemens. if he was on the list, i'd vote for him.

here's his numbers http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats ... or=Clemens

on top of that he has more Cy Young awards than any other pitcher in MLB history.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 8, 2004, 3:44 pm

I'd like to change my vote from Lance Armstrong to Karch Kiraly. I should have thought of him last night...

Here's some info on him:

California's most valuable player as a high school senior, he entered UCLA in 1979 and led the school to three NCAA championships, in 1979, 1981, and 1982, and to a second-place finish in 1980. UCLA won 123 of 128 games during his career.

The 6-foot-3, 190-pound Kiraly was a member of the U. S. national team from 1981 to 1989. During that period, the team won gold medals at the 1984 and 1988 Olympics, at the 1982 and 1986 world championships, and at the 1987 Pan-American Games.

Kiraly was named the best player in the world after being selected for the all-tournament team in the 1986 world championships and he was most valuable player of the 1988 Olympic tournament, in which he had 137 kills, 16 block stuffs, 15 block assists, and a 60 percent kill percentage.

After leaving the national team, Kiraly played for Il Messaggero in Italy and was named most valuable player and best digger when the squad won the 1991 club world championship.

Kiraly has also starred in beach volleyball, winning a record 143 open tournaments. He teamed with Kent Steffens to win the first Olympic gold medal in the sport in 1996.

The Association of Volleyball Professionals (AVP) named Kiraly its most valuable player six times, in 1990, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, and 1998. He was also named the circuit's best offensive player in 1990, 1993, and 1994 and its best defensive player in 2002.

He's also currently ranked number one on the AVP men's tour. He's better than Lance because he's competed and won at every level of his sport and in every discipline. He's still active and winning at age 44!

More info:

THE ONLY ONE - Kiraly is the only volleyball player in Olympic history to win three Gold medals, having been part of the United States’ Gold Medal indoor teams in 1984 and 1988, and winning the Gold Medal in beach volleyball at the 1996 Atlanta Olympic Games with Kent Steffes. Kiraly leads all pro beach volleyball players in career prize money. Kiraly and Steffes, who teamed for the second-most pro beach titles (76 to 113 for Sinjin Smith/Randy Stoklos), are the winningest pro beach team in history in terms of earnings ($2,900,112).
PLAYERS OF THE CENTURY – Karch Kiraly of the United States was recognized by the Federation de International Volleyball (FIVB) for his performances and courage in leading the United States National Men's team to the following:

The Olympic Gold Medal in Los Angeles 1984
The World Cup title in Tokyo 1985
The World Championship title in Paris 1986
The Olympic Gold Medal in Seoul 1988
The Gold Medal of the inaugural FIVB Olympic Event Beach Volleyball in the 1996 Atlanta Olympic Games with Ken Steffes.
UNITED STATES DOMESTIC BEACH CAREER - Kiraly, who has won 146 pro beach titles, became winningest beach volleyball player of all time when he and Adam Johnson captured the 1999 Chicago Open. Kiraly broke the previous record of 139 set in 1992 by long-time rival, Sinjin Smith. The two winningest players also teamed to win 21 domestic titles (1979-82, 1984). Kiraly has won beach titles with 12 different players, including 76 with Steffes. He was the first player to earn more than $2 million in career earnings, and he became the first player to break the $3 million mark at the last tournament of the 2002 season in Las Vegas. Kiraly and Johnson won the inaugural Oldsmobile Beach Volleyball Series May 16, 1999 in Huntington Beach, Calif., a USA Volleyball-sanctioned event. Kiraly has also won the King of the Beach Invitational four times (1991-93, 1996). In 2002, was named AVP’s Best Defensive Player after placing in the top three five times, including a victory at the Santa Barbara Open with partner Brent Doble. Kiraly’s 2001 season was limited to two domestic events due to shoulder and leg injuries. Karch's injuries prevented him from winning a tournament in 2001, breaking a streak of fourteen straight seasons dating back to 1986. Following the 2001 season, Kiraly has 239 career final four finishes in 284 starts (84.2 percent).

FIVB - Kiraly has competed in 23 FIVB Beach Volleyball World Tour events. Kiraly has posted four FIVB wins with Pat Powers in 1988 at Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, with Steve Timmons in 1989 at Enoshima, Japan, and with Steffes at the 1995 Curacao exhibition and the 1996 Atlanta Olympic Games.

USA VOLLEYBALL - Kiraly led the USA National Team to two consecutive Olympic Gold Medals (1984, 1988), and to the first-ever Triple Crown (1986 FIVB World Indoor Championships). He was named twice (1986 and 1988) as the FIVB’s "Best Player in the World."

PROFESSIONAL INDOOR CAREER - Kiraly led Il Messaggero of the Italian Professional League to the 1991 team title. He served as ambassador for USA Volleyball from 1990-1995. Kiraly was a finalist for the Sullivan Award (given annually to the top amateur athlete in the nation, from 1985 to 1988).

COLLEGE - Inducted into the UCLA Hall of Fame in 1992 after an All-American volleyball career for the Bruins. His jersey (No. 31) was retired on March 7, 1993 at UCLA's Pauley Pavilion. He led UCLA to three NCAA Championships (1979, 1981, 1982). Kiraly earned All-American honors four times (1979-82).

HIGH SCHOOL - Kiraly cites Rick Olmstead, Santa Barbara High School coach, as inspirational to his career for teaching him the value of hard work and dedication. A three-year letterman in volleyball, Kiraly led his team to a second, third and a first in three seasons of CIF Southern Division play. Kiraly was the CIF Player of the Year as a senior. He graduated third in his class with a 3.96 grade-point average.

PERSONAL - Pronounced KEY-RAI. Learned the game from his father (Dr. Laszlo Kiraly) and oversees the Karch Kiraly Scholarship Fund that awards scholarships to graduating high school volleyball players. Graduated with a biochemistry degree in 1983. His jersey (No. 31) was retired on March 7, 1993 at UCLA's Pauley Pavilion. Cites Rick Olmstead, Santa Barbara High School coach, as inspirational to his career for teaching him the value of hard work and dedication. Graduated third in his high school class with a 3.96 grade-point average. A contributing editor for Volleyball Magazine, he has appeared on various television shows. He and his wife, Janna, married in Dec, 1986, and have two sons, Kristian and Kory.

Awards

AVP Best Defensive Player 2002
AVP Best Offensive Player 1990, 1993, 1994
AVP Comeback Player of the Year 1997
AVP Miller Lite Cup Champion 1996
AVP Most Inspirational 1998
AVP Most Valuable Player 1990, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1998
AVP Special Achievement 2002
AVP Sportsman of the Year 1995, 1997, 1998
FIVB Tour Champion 1988

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 8, 2004, 3:57 pm

Spang wrote:
Winnow wrote:Tiger hasn't won a major in over two years. He's not even ranked number one anymore. Good call if this had been two years ago though.
hmmm, good point. can take Randy Johnson off the list then. he isn't a dominating athlete anymore.

He pitched a PERFECT game this year. It's only been done 17 times in the history of baseball. Clemens hasn't. Johnson also just passed 4000Ks this year.

Perfect Games in MLB History:

Lee Richmond, Worchester vs. Cleveland, 1880
Monte Ward, Providence vs. Boston, 1880
Cy Young, Boston vs. Philadelphia, 1904
Addie Joss, Cleveland vs. Chicago, 1908
Charlie Robertson, Chicago vs. Detroit, 1922
Don Larsen, New York vs. Brooklyn, 1956
Jim Bunning, Philadelphia vs. New York, 1964
Sandy Koufax, Los Angeles vs. Chicago, 1965
Catfish Hunter, Oakland vs. Minnesota, 1968
Len Barker, Cleveland vs. Toronto, 1981
Mike Witt, California vs. Texas, 1984
Tom Browning, Cinncinati. vs Los Angeles,1988
Dennis Martinez, Montreal vs. Los Angeles, 1991
Kenny Rogers, Texas vs. California, 1994
David Wells, New York vs. Minnesota, 1998
David Cone, New York vs. Montreal, 1999
Randy Johnson, Arizona Diamondbacks vs. Braves, 2004

Spang · Post by **Spang** » July 8, 2004, 3:58 pm

College: UCLA
(Bachelor's degree in pre-med, biochemistry)

that aint so bad either.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » July 8, 2004, 4:03 pm

oops

Spang · Post by **Spang** » July 8, 2004, 4:04 pm

Winnow wrote:He pitched a PERFECT game this year. It's only been done 17 times in the history of baseball. Clemens hasn't. Johnson also just passed 4000Ks this year.

Perfect Games in MLB History:

Lee Richmond, Worchester vs. Cleveland, 1880
Monte Ward, Providence vs. Boston, 1880
Cy Young, Boston vs. Philadelphia, 1904
Addie Joss, Cleveland vs. Chicago, 1908
Charlie Robertson, Chicago vs. Detroit, 1922
Don Larsen, New York vs. Brooklyn, 1956
Jim Bunning, Philadelphia vs. New York, 1964
Sandy Koufax, Los Angeles vs. Chicago, 1965
Catfish Hunter, Oakland vs. Minnesota, 1968
Len Barker, Cleveland vs. Toronto, 1981
Mike Witt, California vs. Texas, 1984
Tom Browning, Cinncinati. vs Los Angeles,1988
Dennis Martinez, Montreal vs. Los Angeles, 1991
Kenny Rogers, Texas vs. California, 1994
David Wells, New York vs. Minnesota, 1998
David Cone, New York vs. Montreal, 1999
Randy Johnson, Arizona Diamondbacks vs. Braves, 2004

that's one game. definetly a great accomplishment but i wouldn't call him dominating, not this year anyways.

clemens has 4000+ Ks AND 300+ wins. show me 17 people that have done that!

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » July 8, 2004, 4:04 pm

Being a truly dominating athlete is not all physical ability: its about have the mental toughness to overcome adversity and the knowledge of their sport to recognize and exploit opportunities. I daresay this what is truly defines the dominating for the pack.

Thus I'm voting for Schumacher.

Karae · Post by **Karae** » July 8, 2004, 4:26 pm

I think Winnow gets off on being wrong.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » July 8, 2004, 5:19 pm

You people are nuts if you think the Big Unit isn't dominating this year.

Just ask the professionals who they'd rather face like they did on ESPN. It was unanimous that they'd rather face Roger Clemens than Randy Johnson in the 7th game of a world series.

PHOENIX - Randy Johnson of the Arizona Diamondbacks became the fourth pitcher to record 4,000 strikeouts when he struck out San Diego's Jeff Cirillo in the eighth inning Tuesday night.

Johnson trails Nolan Ryan (5,714), Roger Clemens (4,200) and Steve Carlton (4,136), but reached the milestone the quickest.

The Big Unit, midway through his 16th year in the majors, got there in 3,237 1-3 innings, a strikeout-to-inning ratio of 11.12. None of the others had a double-figure ratio, with Ryan's 9.55 the next-best based on 3,844 2-3 innings.

Johnson's 196 double-digit strikeout games are second only to Ryan's 215.

Clemens and Randy both have 10 wins this year...oh but BTW, Randy plays on a team that's 22 games under .500 with unbelievably bad run support.

Deward · Post by **Deward** » July 8, 2004, 5:56 pm

Favre can still dominate. Look at his game after his father died last year. He was a monster. Peyton had some pretty dominating games last year too.

Lance is a product of a very good team setup just to make sure he wins and give USPS good publicity. I respect his drive coming back from cancer and all though. He wouldn't win without the team though.

If Favre isn't dominating then neither is Shaq. Shaq was much better in previous years than he was last year.

My vote was Michael Phelps but it won't be certain till after teh olympics. If he gets his 7 golds then there is no competition. He won his trial today by over 5 seconds. That is pretty big in swimming.

I don't watch racing so can't comment on schumacher.

Aevian Dreaklear · Post by **Aevian Dreaklear** » July 8, 2004, 5:58 pm

Spang wrote:
Winnow wrote:He pitched a PERFECT game this year. It's only been done 17 times in the history of baseball. Clemens hasn't. Johnson also just passed 4000Ks this year.

Perfect Games in MLB History:

Lee Richmond, Worchester vs. Cleveland, 1880
Monte Ward, Providence vs. Boston, 1880
Cy Young, Boston vs. Philadelphia, 1904
Addie Joss, Cleveland vs. Chicago, 1908
Charlie Robertson, Chicago vs. Detroit, 1922
Don Larsen, New York vs. Brooklyn, 1956
Jim Bunning, Philadelphia vs. New York, 1964
Sandy Koufax, Los Angeles vs. Chicago, 1965
Catfish Hunter, Oakland vs. Minnesota, 1968
Len Barker, Cleveland vs. Toronto, 1981
Mike Witt, California vs. Texas, 1984
Tom Browning, Cinncinati. vs Los Angeles,1988
Dennis Martinez, Montreal vs. Los Angeles, 1991
Kenny Rogers, Texas vs. California, 1994
David Wells, New York vs. Minnesota, 1998
David Cone, New York vs. Montreal, 1999
Randy Johnson, Arizona Diamondbacks vs. Braves, 2004
that's one game. definetly a great accomplishment but i wouldn't call him dominating, not this year anyways.

clemens has 4000+ Ks AND 300+ wins. show me 17 people that have done that!

Wins is kind of a misleading category. Wins is heavily dependent on run support. Taking another category such as ERA won't help the arguement as they have very similar ERAs, Randy with 3.10 and Roger with 3.17. Something I'd like to point out is that Randy Johnson has a 11.1 K/9 ratio where Roger has an 8.6. Strikeouts importance can be argued, but I believe it is a clear sign of a pitchers dominance. To throw another name out there for comparison, Nolan Ryan has a career 9.55 K/9 ratio.

This year Randy Johnson is definately putting up good numbers for a horrific Diamondback team. 2.90 ERA and leading the NL in strikeouts are very good numbers. Granted Roger has a 10-2 record while Randy has a 10-6 record, but Roger gets quite a big deal of run support from the Astro lineup. He may not be overwhelmingly dominant this year, but he's not that far behind Roger if we're talking this year alone.

noel · Post by **noel** » July 8, 2004, 6:12 pm

Deward wrote:Lance is a product of a very good team setup just to make sure he wins and give USPS good publicity. I respect his drive coming back from cancer and all though. He wouldn't win without the team though.

You could put Lance on CSC, Phonak, T-mobile, Liberty Seguros and he'd still end up on the podium.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » July 8, 2004, 6:12 pm

Aevian Dreaklear wrote:
Spang wrote:
Winnow wrote:He pitched a PERFECT game this year. It's only been done 17 times in the history of baseball. Clemens hasn't. Johnson also just passed 4000Ks this year.

Perfect Games in MLB History:

Lee Richmond, Worchester vs. Cleveland, 1880
Monte Ward, Providence vs. Boston, 1880
Cy Young, Boston vs. Philadelphia, 1904
Addie Joss, Cleveland vs. Chicago, 1908
Charlie Robertson, Chicago vs. Detroit, 1922
Don Larsen, New York vs. Brooklyn, 1956
Jim Bunning, Philadelphia vs. New York, 1964
Sandy Koufax, Los Angeles vs. Chicago, 1965
Catfish Hunter, Oakland vs. Minnesota, 1968
Len Barker, Cleveland vs. Toronto, 1981
Mike Witt, California vs. Texas, 1984
Tom Browning, Cinncinati. vs Los Angeles,1988
Dennis Martinez, Montreal vs. Los Angeles, 1991
Kenny Rogers, Texas vs. California, 1994
David Wells, New York vs. Minnesota, 1998
David Cone, New York vs. Montreal, 1999
Randy Johnson, Arizona Diamondbacks vs. Braves, 2004
that's one game. definetly a great accomplishment but i wouldn't call him dominating, not this year anyways.

clemens has 4000+ Ks AND 300+ wins. show me 17 people that have done that!
Wins is kind of a misleading category. Wins is heavily dependent on run support. Taking another category such as ERA won't help the arguement as they have very similar ERAs, Randy with 3.10 and Roger with 3.17. Something I'd like to point out is that Randy Johnson has a 11.1 K/9 ratio where Roger has an 8.6. Strikeouts importance can be argued, but I believe it is a clear sign of a pitchers dominance. To throw another name out there for comparison, Nolan Ryan has a career 9.55 K/9 ratio.

This year Randy Johnson is definately putting up good numbers for a horrific Diamondback team. 2.90 ERA and leading the NL in strikeouts are very good numbers. Granted Roger has a 10-2 record while Randy has a 10-6 record, but Roger gets quite a big deal of run support from the Astro lineup. He may not be overwhelmingly dominant this year, but he's not that far behind Roger if we're talking this year alone.

A guy on the Giants named Jason beats em both this year

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » July 8, 2004, 6:43 pm

I had this argument two years ago, and the big names thrown around were Serena Williams, Tiger Woods, and Roy Jones Junior. Funny how things change.

Erh driving a race car is quite exhausting. Anyone claiming otherwise truly don't know what they are talking about. I very reluctantly added Nascar though, since it is generally viewed that F1 takes a LOT more skills and the best drivers move there when given a chance. Also, only way to get better acceleration and turning G's than a F1 is in a fighterjet heh.

So why aren't any fighter jet pilots up there on that list? Driving an 18 wheeler can be exhausting and very difficult too.

Anyway, my vote would go to Lance. I'm typically an underdog fan too, but when the top dog has become that way because of pure desire, hard work, and competitive drive, it becomes much easier to support them. Lance has the kind of competitive intensity that I personally have never seen in any athlete besides Michael Jordan.

A few people-- Schumacer, Phelps, and probably one or two others-- I don't know enough about to comment on.