Shooting at Virginia Tech - estimated 20+ dead

Nick · Post by **Nick** » April 17, 2007, 12:55 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Nick wrote:
It's all too sketchy right now to determine facts, but, if it was 2 hours later, how were the police not on top of the situation?
Well, if you've been following the story, and it appears you have been, you'd know they considered the dorm incident over and began working the case. They had no reason to believe a mass shooting spree was about to begin. There is no reason to start slinging blame all over. The blame lies in the asshole who stole lives away from 33 people.

I'm hardly "slinging blame". I don't think you'll find anyone with a brain claiming this incident was anything other than the murderer in questions fault

I was just wondering (I hadn't read that bit about them thinking it was over).

How the fuck do you equate Iraqi's dieing in a war effort and Canadians dieing in a war effort to a psycho mass murderer goign off on innocent civilians?

I know, Americans dying are so much more important right?

Edit: /chuckle Miir

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » April 17, 2007, 12:56 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Resident aliens are not legally allowed to purchase and receive guns. They can purchase them for export, but are not ermitted to take possession of them here.

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:A resident alien on a school permit does not qualify to legally purchase a gun.

He's been here since 1992 when his family immigrated to this country legally. He was a legal permanent resident (i.e. he had a green card, not just a student visa). At least do a little research before talking out of your ass, please. As Kyo said, legal permanent residents can legally purchase firearms.

Post by **Sylvus** » April 17, 2007, 12:57 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:A resident alien on a school permit does not qualify to legally purchase a gun.

Then why did he have a receipt in his backpack?

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » April 17, 2007, 1:02 pm

noel wrote:I'm also kind of shocked that this guy was able to kill 31 people and wound 26 others with a handgun. I automatically assumed it was an assault rifle when I heard the kill count. One of the ER surgeons was saying on CNN this morning that each body had at least 3 bullets in it. That HAS to be an exaggeration. A 9mm handgun at best will hold 14 rounds (I believe). So either this idiot was carrying around a TON of ammo or the ER surgeon was exaggerating.

I believe you can procure magazines for the Glock 9mm that hold 33 rounds (depending on model).

Although I'm sure there was still a bit of exaggeration on the ER guys part.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » April 17, 2007, 1:09 pm

Xatrei wrote:
Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Resident aliens are not legally allowed to purchase and receive guns. They can purchase them for export, but are not ermitted to take possession of them here.
Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:A resident alien on a school permit does not qualify to legally purchase a gun.
He's been here since 1992 when his family immigrated to this country legally. He was a legal permanent resident (i.e. he had a green card, not just a student visa). At least do a little research before talking out of your ass, please. As Kyo said, legal permanent residents can legally purchase firearms.

As of when I posted that, that information was not available. At least on CNN.....

And as of yet, they have not posted for a fact that he does indeed have a green card.

noel · Post by **noel** » April 17, 2007, 1:09 pm

I agree Aslanna, though that's nearly a direct quote and the guy was totally calm when he said it.

Another note

Fox News wrote:Students of Liviu Librescu, 76, a holocaust survivor who was an engineering science and mathematics lecturer at Virginia Tech for 20 years, sent e-mails to his wife, Marlena, telling of how he blocked the gunman's way and saved their lives, said the son, Joe.

"My father blocked the doorway with his body and asked the students to flee," Joe Librescu said in a telephone interview from his home outside of Tel Aviv. "Students started opening windows and jumping out."

He survived the fucking holocaust and died in this. 76 years old, trying to save his students. That my friends, is heartbreaking.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » April 17, 2007, 1:14 pm

If it was a Glock 21, it would have a 17 round mag be very common for it. Not like he couldn't buy 10 or more of them and carry them with him.

noel · Post by **noel** » April 17, 2007, 1:14 pm

Saw this on another website. Seems relevant:

Lawful Alien Status

Federal law requires a transferee (buyer) who is not a citizen of the United States to provide additional identification in order to establish that he or she is a resident of a State. Such a transferee must provide a valid government-issued photo-identification to the seller that contains the buyer’s name, date of birth, and residence address. The Alien Resident identification number or INS Admission Number must be recorded on the Virginia Firearms Transaction Record (SP-65) form. In addition, such a transferee must provide documentation such as a utility bill or lease agreement that would establish that he or she has resided for at least 90 days prior to the date of this sale.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » April 17, 2007, 1:17 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:As of when I posted that, that information was not available. At least on CNN.....

And as of yet, they have not posted for a fact that he does indeed have a green card.

Look elsewhere. The info has been out there for hours now. Investigators believe that they know where he bought them, and that they believe he bought them legally under Virginia law. They also have confirmed that they believe that he tried to remove the serial numbers on the weapons himself. Investigators have been able to recover the serial numbers from the weapons since the kid wasn't as thorough as he thought he was, I guess. Why he tried to obscure the serial numbers is unknown, although it's pretty clear that he wasn't exactly thinking or behaving rationally.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 17, 2007, 1:18 pm

noel wrote:I agree Aslanna, though that's nearly a direct quote and the guy was totally calm when he said it.

Another note

Fox News wrote:Students of Liviu Librescu, 76, a holocaust survivor who was an engineering science and mathematics lecturer at Virginia Tech for 20 years, sent e-mails to his wife, Marlena, telling of how he blocked the gunman's way and saved their lives, said the son, Joe.

"My father blocked the doorway with his body and asked the students to flee," Joe Librescu said in a telephone interview from his home outside of Tel Aviv. "Students started opening windows and jumping out."

He survived the fucking holocaust and died in this. 76 years old, trying to save his students. That my friends, is heartbreaking.

Did he die? It says he was sending emails about blocking the door to his wife.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » April 17, 2007, 1:19 pm

It is going to be real interesting to see how the states with legislation up for vote soon on some gun agendas will take this. I know Georgia has a bill up for vote that would make it unlawful for employers to ban firearms from their parking lots for valid concealed carry permit holders. I know several other states are working on the same legislation.

Ransure · Post by **Ransure** » April 17, 2007, 1:20 pm

Im saddened by this whole event, I used to head down to Tech every weekend to party with friends..... and the shooter apparently lived about 10 miles from me... I am a bit surprised that no one actually rushed a lone gunman as he shot 50+ people.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » April 17, 2007, 1:20 pm

Yes, Librescu was one of 3, I believe, slain faculty members.

noel · Post by **noel** » April 17, 2007, 1:25 pm

Winnow wrote:
Students of Liviu Librescu, 76, a holocaust survivor who was an engineering science and mathematics lecturer at Virginia Tech for 20 years, sent e-mails to his wife, Marlena, telling of how he [Librescu] blocked the gunman's way and saved their lives, said the son, Joe.

It's a difficult wording, but reread it. Yes, he died.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » April 17, 2007, 1:26 pm

Winnow wrote:Did he die? It says he was sending emails about blocking the door to his wife.

His students were the ones sending the emails.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 17, 2007, 1:34 pm

Thanks. Missed a comma.

Post by **Xouqoa** » April 17, 2007, 1:39 pm

Aslanna wrote: I believe you can procure magazines for the Glock 9mm that hold 33 rounds (depending on model).

Yep: http://img57.imageshack.us/my.php?image ... nesrd9.jpg

Sad, sad events. People should really find other outlets for their anger and hostility rather than shooting up schools of innocent bystanders.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » April 17, 2007, 1:46 pm

Like Noel said, I am just having a hard time understanding how this guy took out that many people with handguns, and no one stopped him. I also was under the assumption when I first heard of this that he had an assault rifle of some sort.

You would think that someone/many people would have teamed up to take him down. It is really sad that something like this happened, but to me it is even worse that this prick got to take the easy way out and shoot himself when he deserved nothing less than the slowest most painful death possible.

noel · Post by **noel** » April 17, 2007, 1:55 pm

msnbc wrote:Professor Carolyn Rude, chairwoman of the university’s English department, said she did not personally know the gunman. But she said she spoke with Lucinda Roy, the department’s director of creative writing, who had Cho in one of her classes and described him as “troubled.”

“There was some concern about him,” Rude told The Associated Press. “Sometimes, in creative writing, people reveal things and you never know if it’s creative or if they’re describing things, if they’re imagining things or just how real it might be. But we’re all alert to not ignore things ike this.”

She said Cho was referred to the counseling service, but she said she did not know when or what the outcome was. Rude refused to release any of his writings or his grades, citing privacy laws.

NBC News’ Pete Williams reported that police had found a note in which Cho listed “random grievances,” but few other details were immediately available. That seemed in keeping for a young man who apparently left little impression in the Virginia Tech community.

...

“He was very quiet, always by himself,” said Abdul Shash, a neighbor. Shash said Cho spent a lot of his free time playing basketball and would not respond if someone greeted him. He described the family as quiet.

Jesus.

Post by **Xouqoa** » April 17, 2007, 2:03 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:Like Noel said, I am just having a hard time understanding how this guy took out that many people with handguns, and no one stopped him. I also was under the assumption when I first heard of this that he had an assault rifle of some sort.

You would think that someone/many people would have teamed up to take him down. It is really sad that something like this happened, but to me it is even worse that this prick got to take the easy way out and shoot himself when he deserved nothing less than the slowest most painful death possible.

I think (unfortunately) that it takes an event like this for people to realize that when somebody has a gun (or an airplane) that they have it for a reason with a purpose in mind, and hiding or trying to talk your way out of it or just sitting back and telling yourself that everything will be okay doesn't always make it so.

Maybe in a similar future situation (hopefully there won't be any more), the people involved in the middle of it will realize that they are sitting ducks and need to organize and take action against the person committing the attack.

I'm sure it's much easier to say things like this than actually do them, but once potential criminals realize that people aren't going to just bend over and take it maybe they'll reconsider their actions.

If I had been there and been feeling a little Jack Bauer-esque, I would have cracked the door to the room and waited for him to reach his gun arm in, then slam it and break his arm. Words are easy to say though, and I very easily could have been one of the people jumping out of the windows to get away.

noel · Post by **noel** » April 17, 2007, 2:09 pm

I'd like to think that in a situation such as that, my thoughts would be:

Determine the best cover/concealment.
Get my family/friends to safety.
Alert Authorities.
Observe the attacker.
Organize, if possible, assistance.
If at all possible, attack the attacker.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » April 17, 2007, 2:24 pm

I honestly don't know how I'd react in a situation like that. I like to think that I'd at least try to stop an attacker to protect others, but frankly I'll never know unless I'm thrust into that situation. Thinking about mass shootings like this, I wonder if it ever occurs to people in that situation that doing nothing carries as much, if not more, risk to one's life than doing nothing. What stops people from jumping on the guy? Are they too paralyzed by fear? Are they waiting for someone else to go first? What actually goes on in the minds of those involved is really an interesting psychological question. I'm sure we'll see and hear no shortage of speculation on the topic in the coming days.

Post by **Xouqoa** » April 17, 2007, 2:24 pm

noel wrote:I'd like to think that in a situation such as that, my thoughts would be:

Determine the best cover/concealment.
Get my family/friends to safety.
Alert Authorities.
Observe the attacker.
Organize, if possible, assistance.
If at all possible, attack the attacker.

Sounds reasonable to me!

btw the link in your sig is broken

noel · Post by **noel** » April 17, 2007, 2:27 pm

I agree, Xatrei. Frankly, I hope I never have to find out how I'd react in a situation like that. I'd like to think I'd do the right thing, but it's a lot easier for me to sit here in my office and play armchair anti-crazy-gunman-super-citizen than it is to actually be there.

Post by **Sylvus** » April 17, 2007, 2:34 pm

Also think about the chaos that is going on at the time. I have no idea what that building is like at that university, but I did hear that one of the classes he went into was a German class. At the University of Michigan's Modern Languages Building, there were a large number of small classrooms, and most of my german classes usually had between 10 and 25 people in them.

If you're isolated in groups of (let's say) 15 people, have no idea what is going on, can hear gunshots throughout the building and this particular gunman is going to and from classrooms as reported, you aren't going to have any idea that trying to subdue this one guy could save the lives of dozens of other people. Couple that with the shock and surprise... I think it would only be completely natural to freeze up. I can't blame any of the students one bit, though that prof's actions sound pretty heroic.

noel · Post by **noel** » April 17, 2007, 2:43 pm

No argument.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » April 17, 2007, 2:54 pm

I've only been shot at twice. Only one time was I in a position to go after the person holding the gun, and both times my first response was making sure that the people with me, and myself, were safe. As noted, it is easy to say that we would do what we could to stop the person, but the level of clear thought and information needed to do that without becoming another part of the bodycount is too high for the majority of people to do on the fly. These people had no clue how many people were shooting. CNN even reported what sounded like shots from multiple people/guns. How could anyone have know that if they slammed the door on one person that another wouldn't shoot them as soon as they opened the door to deal with the first?

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » April 17, 2007, 4:45 pm

Sylvus wrote:
I think he filed the serial numbers off himself.

Why would he do that when he just killed himself anyway? I feel pretty safe in saying he didn't legally purchase any of these weapons and as Kilmoll said he wasn't legally allowed to anyway.

I don't believe they actually found a recepit, if they did BATF is going to fuck whoever sold it to him.

As I said in the other thread, I saw them showing the guns on TV and neither of them looked like a glock anyway. It was in the cafeteria with no sound... so I guess they might not have been the same weapons or someone at the station just put some random pictures up or something.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » April 17, 2007, 4:51 pm

...And Kilmoll was wrong. Cho was a legal alien resident, who under federal and Virginia law is legally allowed to purchase firearms as long as he provided all proper documentation, which apparently he did. The authorities HAVE CONFIRMED that both guns were purchased legally. The Glock 9mm was purchased last month, and the .22 Walther was purchased last friday. The owner of the gun store has been interviewed by authorities who confirm that no laws were violated in the sale. For whatever reason, Cho filed the serial numbers off himself. The owner of the store will be appearing in a special edition of Dateline NBC tonight.

I'll dig up a link for this in a few mins when I have a sec.

Post by **Sylvus** » April 17, 2007, 4:58 pm

*~*stragi*~* wrote:
Sylvus wrote:
I think he filed the serial numbers off himself.

Why would he do that when he just killed himself anyway? I feel pretty safe in saying he didn't legally purchase any of these weapons and as Kilmoll said he wasn't legally allowed to anyway.

I don't believe they actually found a recepit, if they did BATF is going to fuck whoever sold it to him.

As I said in the other thread, I saw them showing the guns on TV and neither of them looked like a glock anyway. It was in the cafeteria with no sound... so I guess they might not have been the same weapons or someone at the station just put some random pictures up or something.

Why would the police make up a story about finding a receipt? Why would at least the one guy give a quote about thinking he filed them off himself? Did he kill himself? I don't know that I've actually seen any of the details yet surrounding his death. It's quite possible that he didn't set out with the intention of killing himself, and filed off the numbers when he was still hoping to get away with whatever he had originally planned.

I also haven't seen anything yet that says he couldn't legally purchase a gun, other than kilmoll's comments in this thread. It has since been pointed out that some aliens can buy guns in Virginia, and it has been pointed out that kilmoll's beliefs about this guy's residency status was wrong.

But sure, you saw a gun on tv that doesn't look like anything produced by the Glock company, so it's probably just a big conspiracy by the law enforcement agencies investigating this trying to frame whatever store it is that they falsified the receipt for.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » April 17, 2007, 5:15 pm

I'm not saying what you stated at the end of your post sylvus, but I also didn't think it looked like a glock. In fact, it looked 100% identical to the 9mm beretta that my dad has - but I am also not a gun expert.

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » April 17, 2007, 5:55 pm

http://newsbloggers.aol.com/2007/04/17/ ... uis-plays/

A former fellow student of the killer releases copies of the killer's writing and describes what he knew of him.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » April 17, 2007, 6:19 pm

As I promised... Search (terms: cho seung hui) on the AP's website linked to this.

The Associated Press wrote:Student gunman bought weapons in Roanoke

By MATTHEW BARAKAT
Associated Press Writer
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Student gunman bought weapons in Roanoke

A look at some Virginia Tech victims

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) -- Virginia Tech senior Cho Seung-Hui walked into a Roanoke gun shop five weeks ago, put down a credit card and walked out with a Glock 19 handgun and a box of ammunition. He paid $571.

The Glock was one of two guns found with Cho's fingerprints after he fatally shot 32 people and then himself at the university in the deadliest shooting rampage in modern U.S. history.

Roanoke Firearms owner John Markell said his shop sold the Glock to Cho in March. The serial number had been scratched off, but federal agents traced it to the store using a receipt found in Cho's backpack.

"It was a very unremarkable sale," said Markell, who did not handle the sale personally. "He was a nice, clean-cut college kid. We won't sell a gun if we have any idea at all that a purchase is suspicious."

Markell said it's not unusual for college students to make purchases at his shop as long as they are old enough.

Cho held a green card, meaning he was a legal, permanent resident, according to federal officials. That meant he was eligible to buy a handgun unless he had been convicted of a felony.

"To find out the gun came from my shop is just terrible," Markell said.

Authorities also found a Walther .22-caliber handgun in Cho's possession, according to a search warrant filed in Montgomery County.

Because he killed and injured so many victims in a short span of time, some people speculated that Cho used high-capacity magazines containing as many as 33 rounds in each clip.

Under the federal assault-weapons ban enacted in 1994, magazines were limited to 10 rounds. But that ban was allowed to expire in 2004.

"The key thing that we have seen in all of these school shootings is easy access to high firepower weapons," said Daniel Vice, an attorney with the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "These killings can't be done with baseball bats and knives."

Under Virginia law, state police keep records of gun purchases from licensed dealers for only 30 days. After that, police destroy the records.

Fairfax County spokeswoman Merni Fitzgerald said there was no record of Cho applying for a concealed-weapon permit there.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 17, 2007, 6:29 pm

This student did something to save lives:

BLACKSBURG, Virginia (CNN) -- Monday's toll inside Virginia Tech's Norris Hall might have included 11 more students had it not been for a long, rectangular table and a quick-thinking senior who used it to deflect the rampage of his fellow classmate.

Zach Petkewicz said he didn't recognize the sounds that pierced the door and cinder-block walls of his classroom as gunshots until he heard a scream from the hallway of the engineering building.

"The girls in my class peeked out in the hall and saw a gunner come out of a classroom with his gun pointed down," Petkewicz told CNN.

"They immediately slammed the door shut, told us, everybody kind of went into a frenzy, a panic. I hid behind the podium and then just kind of looked up at the door. Like, there's nothing stopping this guy from just coming in. And so I said, 'We need to barricade this door.' "

Petkewicz described his state of mind unabashedly: "I was completely scared out of my mind originally, just went into a cowering position, and then just realized you have got to do something." (Watch Petkewicz describe how he kept his wits about him)

Petkewicz and two other students shoved a table against the door and held it there as gunshots continued to ring out from the hallway outside the classroom.

"He came to our door, tried the handle and couldn't get in because we were pushing up against it -- and tried to force his way in and got the door to open up about 6 inches -- and then we just lunged at it and closed it back up and that's when he backed up and shot twice into the middle of the door, thinking we were up against it trying to get him out."

But Petkewicz said that instead he and the other students had placed themselves in front of the cinder-block walls, where they listened to what was going on out of sight a few inches away.

"I just heard his clip drop to the ground, and he reloaded and I thought he was coming back for a second round to try to get his way in there. He didn't say a word, and he just turned and kept firing down the hall and didn't try to get back in."

As the drama was unfolding, Petkewicz said, other classmates were on their cell phones with 911 operators, who told them police were on their way.

Soon, "I could hear police shouting all around the building. They were there really fast, it was just a matter of getting up and getting to us and getting this guy out of the picture."

The shooter -- identified as Cho Seung-Hui, a 23-year-old English major and South Korean native from Centreville, Virginia -- used one of his two guns to take care of that himself, police said.

Asked what he would say to those who call him a hero, Petkewicz looked away, began blinking rapidly, shrugged his shoulders, shook his head back and forth, removed his right hand from the pocket of his blue jeans and used it to stroke his forehead, then said in a voice choked with emotion, "I'm just glad I could be here."

Norris Hall is shut for the remainder of the semester.

Deward · Post by **Deward** » April 17, 2007, 6:44 pm

With a single weapon the body count would have been much lower. By having two weapons he could insure that one was always loaded. In Virginia any US Citizen can buy one handgun a month with no background checks (I think I read that on CNN). I was still surprised at the number of casualties though. I would like to think that once he started shooting a room up that I would try to stop him. Of course that is very easy to say from here.

My guess is that he filed the numbers off the guns because he intended to get away. A properly filed gun is hard to trace but you really have to file deep to get rid of all traces of the numbers. They imprint them pretty deep.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 17, 2007, 7:15 pm

Deward wrote: My guess is that he filed the numbers off the guns because he intended to get away. A properly filed gun is hard to trace but you really have to file deep to get rid of all traces of the numbers. They imprint them pretty deep.

You'd think by now they would place a serial number in a location accessible only by destroying the gun...so when a crime takes place, they can destroy the weapon but get the serial#.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » April 17, 2007, 7:42 pm

Lalanae wrote:http://newsbloggers.aol.com/2007/04/17/ ... uis-plays/

A former fellow student of the killer releases copies of the killer's writing and describes what he knew of him.

So not only is he a psychotic murderer but a fucking awful writer as well? What a twat.

noel · Post by **noel** » April 17, 2007, 7:51 pm

Yeah those read like bad tentacle rape fan fiction.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » April 17, 2007, 7:57 pm

Just stop it, Michael Jackson!

noel · Post by **noel** » April 17, 2007, 8:01 pm

Actually... it reads like Vogon Poetry.

He could have saved himself a lot of trouble and made a lot more people suffer needlessly if he'd just kept writing!

(attempted humor on a very serious topic)

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » April 17, 2007, 11:58 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:
Fairweather Pure wrote:Of course this thread will derail into a simple "guns vs. no guns" discussion. It should. This incident is a prime example why the topic needs to be examined and discussed in detail.

If the guy was only armed with a pocket knife, I think the death count would've been a bit lower. Maybe 2 or 3 tops? I also don't think he would've had the balls to kill himself with a knife to avoid getting caught. A bullet is a quick and easy way out.

Meanwhile, if everyone was armed with guns, I think there would be a shitload more (than the already disgustingly high) amount of deaths attributed to firearms per year in America. It's just too easy to shoot someone from a distance and walk away. (Or shoot while driving!)

My opinion is a very simple one. Guns are bad. They are designed to kill. Killing shouldn't be made faster and easier. Yeah, Yeah, hunting is different. But handguns and assualt weapons are nothing more than people killers. This latest incident is a grisly example that prooves my point.

Fuck the gun nuts. You are the last people that should be owning guns, but somehow you're the people hoarding them and defending the God given right to have them. Ironic.
And this is the thinking that just caused the largest mass killign in US history. That campus is a gun free zone. That dickhead purchased illegal guns...serial numbers filed off....and he is not even allowed to legally purchase a firearm. So you take one fuckhead that wants to kill people and he WILL find a way to get a gun......and you take them to a campus that no one is allowed to carry a gun and who is going to stop them?

Tell me now....WHO is going to stop an armed person on a campus where they know no one is allowed to have a firearm? All your arguments are compeltely worthless and this incident should be proving that to you. No law will EVER stop someone that wants to break it. No "No Guns" sign is going to stop someone from walking past it with a bag full of weapons.

You just don't get it..you simply cannot and will not EVER eliminate guns with the amount of available technology today. That is as stupid as saying you are going to eliminate drugs. Unless you are prepared to entirely give up ALL of your rights and freedoms this will nto happen.

So your argument is not to take away guns, but give everyone guns? Jesus Christ, that's stupid even for you. If every student there had guns, do you think it would've been like the a fucking Jon Woo movie with everyone running around in slow motion with duel pistols blazing away at the evil foreigner?

How does the scenerio play out in your head that you think that is a good argument?

"The key thing that we have seen in all of these school shootings is easy access to high firepower weapons," said Daniel Vice, an attorney with the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence. "These killings can't be done with baseball bats and knives."

Ha, someone said something surprisingly similar earlier in this very thread!

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » April 18, 2007, 2:38 am

Several Korean youths who knew Cho Seung Hui from his high school days said he was a fan of violent video games, particularly Counterstrike, a hugely popular online game published by Microsoft, in which players join terrorism or counterterrorism groups and try to shoot each other using all types of guns.

I hate it when they try forging retarded connections. D&D means you're a devil worshipper. Metal music makes you kill yourself. And the latest blame game is 'violent video games'. Wonder what will be on the agenda next.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » April 18, 2007, 3:40 am

I called the video game connection at work earlier! Counterstrike no less, ha!

noel · Post by **noel** » April 18, 2007, 4:50 am

Jack Thompson called it within 15 minutes of the first two shootings...

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » April 18, 2007, 9:02 am

Fairweather Pure wrote:
So your argument is not to take away guns, but give everyone guns? Jesus Christ, that's stupid even for you. If every student there had guns, do you think it would've been like the a fucking Jon Woo movie with everyone running around in slow motion with duel pistols blazing away at the evil foreigner?

How does the scenerio play out in your head that you think that is a good argument?

This HAS been done in a city in GA. Vaemas would know the city name as I can't remember it. It virtually eliminated crime there. It won't work in the inner cities because....well to be blunt and honest, the ghetto thugs that live there have no regard at all for human life.

edit: found it myself http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennesaw,_Georgia

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » April 18, 2007, 9:30 am

Ironically.....http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/wb/xp-50658

Gun bill gets shot down by panel
HB 1572, which would have allowed handguns on college campuses, died in subcommittee.
By Greg Esposito
381-1675

A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly.

House Bill 1572 didn't get through the House Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety. It died Monday in the subcommittee stage, the first of several hurdles bills must overcome before becoming laws.

The bill was proposed by Del. Todd Gilbert, R-Shenandoah County, on behalf of the Virginia Citizens Defense League. Gilbert was unavailable Monday and spokesman Gary Frink would not comment on the bill's defeat other than to say the issue was dead for this General Assembly session.

Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

Del. Dave Nutter, R-Christiansburg, would not comment Monday because he was not part of the subcommittee that discussed the bill.

Most universities in Virginia require students and employees, other than police, to check their guns with police or campus security upon entering campus. The legislation was designed to prohibit public universities from making "rules or regulations limiting or abridging the ability of a student who possesses a valid concealed handgun permit ... from lawfully carrying a concealed handgun."

The legislation allowed for exceptions for participants in athletic events, storage of guns in residence halls and military training programs.

Last spring a Virginia Tech student was disciplined for bringing a handgun to class, despite having a concealed handgun permit. Some gun owners questioned the university's authority, while the Virginia Association of Chiefs of Police came out against the presence of guns on campus.

In June, Tech's governing board approved a violence prevention policy reiterating its ban on students or employees carrying guns and prohibiting visitors from bringing them into campus facilities.

If even 1 out of 1000 students or faculty members had the right to carry lawfully and had gone through the training and checks requried for concealed carry permits, this guy may have been stopped before he could drop 30 innocent people.

Kwonryu DragonFist · Post by **Kwonryu DragonFist** » April 18, 2007, 9:34 am

Nick wrote:Just stop it, Michael Jackson!

Richard McBeef!

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » April 18, 2007, 9:36 am

There is no reason for anyone on a campus to carry a firearm other than the campus police. I can't even believe you truly feel that way Kilmoll. You don't fight fire with fire, you fight it with water.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » April 18, 2007, 1:05 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:If even 1 out of 1000 students or faculty members had the right to carry lawfully and had gone through the training and checks requried for concealed carry permits, this guy may have been stopped before he could drop 30 innocent people.

Or they might have gotten shot and provided the perpetrator with another weapon allowing him to kill another 30 people...

Most likely they would have run and cowered in a corner because that is generally what one does when they are being attacked by someone with a gun.

I was shot at once. I damn near shat myself and ran like a little girl. But in Kilmoll World all people who are carrying weapons are Harry Callahan.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » April 18, 2007, 1:34 pm

In my world people are not all pacifist liberal pussies who rely on the police to show up 5 minutes after the fact to try and find out what happened. Luckily, not everyone is like you and would shit themselves at a car backfiring. If people actually trained at all, then their insticts would kick in when under stress.....but then I don't expect that from you or the libs crowd.

This is not the 1970's or 80's. Times are changing and people better be ready to stand up to take care of themselves. The attitudes of the younger generations are that of not caring about your life one iota. How does it harm you that someone that abides by the laws and went through all the background checks and went through the training carries a concealed firearm that may save your life one day? Who the fuck are you to say that because YOU don't know what you are doing with firearms that someone else also doesn't?

The reason you don;t use a shotgun for most home intruder situations is this.....collateral damage. Secondary reason....shotgun will lose its energy when shotting through drywall. Sure, you can load it with slugs, but then you are basically firing a single projectile and have MUCH less capacity in the mag. If there is an intruder in the house, I WANT to be able to penetrate a couple of walls or an interior door. I chose ammunition based solely on this and also in penetration factors in going through clothing. If someone comes in and then ducks behind a wall for cover, I want to put him down right there before he may come around for another shot. A shotgun will not penetrate all that drywall and have the enery to put them down.