Dubya action figure

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » February 25, 2004, 2:05 am

well they have vaues...but they think its the same as net worth...

Fesuni Chopsui · Post by **Fesuni Chopsui** » February 25, 2004, 2:08 am

Kyouwhore - stop making assumptions about shit you know nothing about...perhaps if you weren't anything but a troller these days you'd know that Midnyte isn't as biggoted as you think..

Bar bar bar bar bar bar bar bar...that's all I see in the rest of the thread, boring!

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » February 25, 2004, 2:15 am

Someone mentioned coffee as it relates to caffeine (taking a guess there). I don't think caffeine is addictive. Habit forming, yes. Addictive, no. Nothing I'd label someone a "drug addict" as if they have a pot of coffee a day.

People don't go out and rob people because they need that caffeine fix.

Actually, pot stays in your system for 6 months. You can tell by doing tests on your hair follicles, so unless you shave yourself from head to toe, I don't see that happening.

I'm not sure that's technically "in your system".

But I'm not here to split hairs.

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » February 25, 2004, 3:10 am

Aslanna wrote:Someone mentioned coffee as it relates to caffeine (taking a guess there). I don't think caffeine is addictive. Habit forming, yes. Addictive, no. Nothing I'd label someone a "drug addict" as if they have a pot of coffee a day.

People don't go out and rob people because they need that caffeine fix.

Actually, pot stays in your system for 6 months. You can tell by doing tests on your hair follicles, so unless you shave yourself from head to toe, I don't see that happening.
I'm not sure that's technically "in your system".

But I'm not here to split hairs.

I mentioned it but not in the context of "addiction." I was merely pointing out that I am the first to admit that something that I consume and enjoy is not good for me. It was an analogy, not intended to spark the old debate over "what is addiction."

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » February 25, 2004, 4:59 am

since when was I anything but a troller.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 25, 2004, 5:23 am

I'd vote for a gay presidential candidate but when gay people speak their head kind of bounces around like a bobblehead doll and it could be very annoying during long speeches on TV.

Drugs: legalize pot. I don't use it but it's no worse than alcohol and people need an outlet if they wish to relax or want to feel funky during their time off.

The president of the company I'm currently employed at, which is a publicly held and employes 50K+ people, is one of the biggest backers of legalizing marijuana in the country. You can bet that we'll never have to take a drug test and our employee handbook states that you can have 2 glasses of beer or wine during lunch. Our stock is doing quite well and business is good.

Estrosiath · Post by **Estrosiath** » February 25, 2004, 6:30 am

Sorry, just wondering about something about Winnow's last post - you are allowed to drink alcoholics during lunch break? Does that mean that normally, in companies in the US, you are forbidden to do so?

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » February 25, 2004, 7:51 am

Estrosiath wrote:Sorry, just wondering about something about Winnow's last post - you are allowed to drink alcoholics during lunch break? Does that mean that normally, in companies in the US, you are forbidden to do so?

We are not forbidden as such. It is safe to say however that the majority of businesses have policies against being at work under the influence of any alcoholic beverages or actually intoxicant...

*~*stragi*~* · Post by ***~*stragi*~*** » February 25, 2004, 8:08 am

Seebz, I'll bet you 10 bucks right now that Bush isn't going to be re-elected

:):):)

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » February 25, 2004, 10:25 am

Aslanna: I know people who snort coke and/or smoke pot every day. They don't rob people either.

Edit: Directed it to the wrong person.

Melrin_Specclaster · February 25, 2004, 1:37 pm

Xzion wrote:
Aranuil wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:Maybe a pot smoking, MTV Cribs watching, anti-military, anti-space exploration, anti-family values, etc will ascend to our countries highest office. Gosh wouldn't that be swell? Then we could go back to worrying about being taken over and have enemies on our soil. WOOOT
Going to have to agree with this portion of Mid's post. Well said! Of course, be glad Xzion is a perpetual loser. You and I will never be competing with him for a job.
For the record, Xzion, when criticizing others (I have a lot of experience with this) it's best to attempt to form a coherent thought. Just a tip. Have a great day!
HAHAHAHAHA, you call me insecure when you make this post:?
Godamn dude you are the Epitome of a hypocrite.
Notice that there would have been no reason to boast about my economic backround if you didnt call me a perpetual loser, or are you that much of a one sideded dumbfuck

Sorry, but making money doesnt make you not a loser. Although, making the argument sure makes you look smart! Aranuil, on the other hand, although I don't always agree with, does at least usually form good arguments. Xzion, on the other hand, I remember as being a dumbass all of the time.

I'm sure that no stable company in the US would allow alcohol at lunch, I know that mine doesnt.

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » February 25, 2004, 1:58 pm

Sueven wrote:Lalanae: I know people who snort coke and/or smoke pot every day. They don't rob people either.

Edit: Ok

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » February 25, 2004, 2:00 pm

Sorry La, I meant to address that to Aslanna.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » February 25, 2004, 2:01 pm

I've had beers at lunch with my bosses before. Granted not at really busy times or when the suits were in town, but a couple beers was never a big deal.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » February 25, 2004, 2:17 pm

Estrosiath wrote:Sorry, just wondering about something about Winnow's last post - you are allowed to drink alcoholics during lunch break? Does that mean that normally, in companies in the US, you are forbidden to do so?

I don't think many companies would like it if their employees shotgunned two beers at lunch. I haven't seen anyone abusing the policy although it's nice to know when you feel like it, you can have a drink and not stress if you beer burp in your bosses face accidentally later : )

I don't drink beers at lunch as I have a hard enough time staying awake in the afternoons as it is.

At Motorola, we'd head out at lunch for going away parties and such and have a few pitchers of Margaritas. My boss would tell us to be sure our badges weren't showing...or the last one to take their badge off had to buy.

Drasta · Post by **Drasta** » February 25, 2004, 3:08 pm

for the people that use the ... i make more money then you thing ...

my store manager makes a hell of a lot of money ... i on the other hand .. make squat .... my store manager is totally retarded and doesn't know how to do his job yet somehow he still has it. he isn't able to do anyone elses job at the store except knowing how to bag groceries. other then that he's useless except for knowing how to cut hours to get himself a large bonus so just goes to show you .. you might make the $$ but be totally retarded (as he was firing someone they asked him how he got his job because he is so fucking stupid) we all praised her

for the family values thing ... what are family values? no one really hits the head of the nail .. they give vague gray mush answers like ... umm .. knowing right from wrong ... everyone knows right from wrong .. it just depends on if they want to follow it or not.

before you judge someone on their ability to instill family values don't you think you should get to know them better then just going "oh well your a single mom that had a kid at 19 ... your a dumb whore" i hate when people do that shows how elevated their thinking is.

no child left behind ... thats a joke, ever think about asking teachers what they think about that? more tests = more teaching children in school how to pass tests so schools look better and get more $funding$ is what it all comes down to. your kids gonna be learning ... jonny this is what you should except on the test instead of .. jonny this is how our country was founded.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » February 25, 2004, 3:08 pm

Guess it's a matter of opinion. I just don't think caffeine is addictive.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » February 25, 2004, 3:17 pm

Aslanna wrote:Guess it's a matter of opinion. I just don't think caffeine is addictive.

I dunno. I think it is a lesser form of addiction. There's definitely a chemical dependency going on. Going without caffeine for even just a day when you're someone that normally has 2 or more cups of coffee daily can leave someone (at least me) pretty bad off. Headaches, lethargy, irritability, to name a few.

Psyloche · Post by **Psyloche** » February 25, 2004, 3:19 pm

Dregor Thule wrote:
Aslanna wrote:Guess it's a matter of opinion. I just don't think caffeine is addictive.
I dunno. I think it is a lesser form of addiction. There's definitely a chemical dependency going on. Going without caffeine for even just a day when you're someone that normally has 2 or more cups of coffee daily can leave someone (at least me) pretty bad off. Headaches, lethargy, irritability, to name a few.

I've never actually looked it up on a medical forum but I know I've definately heard it spewed tons of times that Caffeine is more addicting than crack. Whether it holds true or not, I have nfc. Peresonally I avoid drinking coke or coffee anyway. The few times I do, its because I fell asleep on my desk.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » February 25, 2004, 3:56 pm

The only possible way it could be considered more addicting is if you look at it from an availability/numbers stand-point. Yea, there are a LOT more people hooked on caffeine than crack. The potency of it tho, well... maybe there's some super-concentrated form of caffeine, I dunno!

masteen · Post by **masteen** » February 25, 2004, 4:01 pm

Caffine is as addictive as any other stimulant. It's just got very mild withdrawal symptoms to go with it's mild upper effects.

If I don't get my morning coffee, or at least a coke at lunch I have a nasty headache by 2 PM.

noel · Post by **noel** » February 25, 2004, 4:27 pm

Caffeine addiction is questionable to me. While I'm sure there are people out there that are in fact addicted to caffeine, when I decided to stop drinking beverages with it in it, I had no problems simply stopping. I'd say the most difficult thing about 'quitting caffeine' is that it's in so many of the things that we drink. I really enjoy the taste of iced tea, and coffee (which I normally drink black), but I just don't drink it anymore.

I'm certainly no expert, but it's my understanding that there are many illegal drugs you can't just 'decide to quit'. Cigarettes are an example of a legal drug that is very difficult to quit.

I don't personally consider caffeine addictive. If I took away everyone's sources of caffeine for 3/4 weeks, by the end of that time, I don't think anyone would really care. No one would be jonsing for it that hard. This is just my opinion.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » February 25, 2004, 4:28 pm

Well then what is addictive?

If (for example) my mother (who drinks 2 cups of coffee a day) does not get her daily coffee, she becomes very irritable, gets a headache, and generally remains upset until she next drinks caffeine. This was put to the test when my stepfather sneakily brewed her decaf one day. She was very upset. Could she quit drinking coffee? I don't know. Probably. I doubt she'd be too pleased about it, though.

A good friend of mine, on the other hand, ha been smoking pot for about four years. At some points, said good friend of mine smokes almost every day, and at others he cuts back, depending on what the situation in his life calls for. I would certainly imagine that popular convention would label him an addict (psychological of course, I know that it's not physically addictive). Does this friend get irritable and unhappy when he doesn't smoke for an extended period of time? Of course. But that's all. Could he quit? Yes, and he has for extended periods of time for one purpose or another. It makes him grouchy for awhile, but there's a simple solution to this: wait a little while and it goes away.

Now obviously certain drugs are more addictive than others. With some drugs, withdrawal can kill you. However, strength of addiction has never been even an element in which drugs are legal and illegal. If it was, acid and marijuana would be legal, and alcohol and tobacco would be schedule one.

So my point is really that addiction isn't this cut and dried characteristic that some people meet and some people don't. Are there some people who become so addicted to something that they go off the deep end about it? Yeah. But there's lots of others for whom an addiction is really just a part of everyday life.

I dunno, maybe you could say that neither my friend nor my mom are addicted to their substances of choice. In that case, it seems that you're just drawing an arbitrary line where a desire becomes an addiction, and it devolves into a pointless semantics game, but I digress.

Actually I have been digressing for this entire post, but I guess I'll just leave it up here anyway.

noel · Post by **noel** » February 25, 2004, 4:39 pm

That's very interesting. I'd have to ask if your mother gets enough quality, regular sleep. That was the hardest part for me initially. I was never sleeping enough, and the caffeine was degrading the quality of my sleep so it wasn't restful. During the day I'd be tired, and I'd drink caffeinated beverages to compensate. Once I quit, and started sleeping appropriately, I noticed that the quality of my sleep was better. Now I can get by on 5-6 hours of sleep a night with no ill affects, and no need to drink caffeine during the day.

Obviously this isn't anything conclusive; just my observations on a sample size of one, but I do think there's something to it. Quitting caffeine, and probably any drug for short periods of time is most definitely going to make people irritable in the short term, but once the drug is out of your system, I'd think there would be less of a need. Again, just opinions.

As far as, 'should someone quit caffeine?' I think as with any addiction, you'd have to look at whether or not it's having a negative affect on the individuals life, and whether or not there would be benefits to quitting.

As an example, I think you can argue that cigarette smoking is an addiction that doesn't have a negative affect on the quality of an individuals life unless that person contracts a disease such as cancer, associated with cigarette smoking. However, if you look at the monetary cost associated with smoking, perhaps the benefit of saving money could be reason to kick the habit? Obviously this is kind of a weak example given that the potential health risks are probably the #1 reason to quit smoking, but hopefully my point is clear. Unless caffeine is causing some sort of problem, why quit?

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » February 25, 2004, 5:12 pm

Yeah, admittedly I'm not too clear on outside factors, but I think she sleeps OK. She gets enough sleep anyway, I can't comment on the quality.

I agree with your conclusion, though. Why should she quit? It's certainly not doing her a lot of harm. I reach the same conclusion with my pot smoking friend. It's a situational thing.

Psyloche · Post by **Psyloche** » February 25, 2004, 5:52 pm

Sueven wrote: A good friend of mine, on the other hand, ha been smoking pot for about four years. At some points, said good friend of mine smokes almost every day, and at others he cuts back, depending on what the situation in his life calls for. I would certainly imagine that popular convention would label him an addict (psychological of course, I know that it's not physically addictive). Does this friend get irritable and unhappy when he doesn't smoke for an extended period of time? Of course. But that's all. Could he quit? Yes, and he has for extended periods of time for one purpose or another. It makes him grouchy for awhile, but there's a simple solution to this: wait a little while and it goes away.

What was that supposed to mean/say?

As far as quitting smoking, people really just have to want to quit more than anything. It took me a good 3 tries to quit and so far it seems successful. I don't think about them anymore, I don't like the smell... dunno just no appeal to me at all. I guess I'm more of a mindset that if you want something done do it yourself. I can't believe how much money people throw into quitting smoking, just own up and do it yourself.

Aruman · Post by **Aruman** » February 25, 2004, 6:10 pm

Xyun wrote:
Aruman wrote:
Xyun wrote:
Most of all, he appears to be a passionate, patriotic leader who is in stark contrast to our last president.

he is also a bumbling fucking retard in contrast to our last president.
Yeah, NAFTA has done wonders for the economy...
Do you know the meaning of "bumbling"? I was referring to the way Bush carries himself in public and articulates his speeches compared to Clinton. I did not mention anything about their policies. Sadly, I have to fucking explain this shit to you because either somebody somewhere failed to do their job as a teacher or you never had the capacity to understand in the first place.

You mean like your bumbling attempt at expressing such a comparison?

Before trying to explain to me what 'bumbling' means, I think you need to take a few years of writing courses. That way we know what you mean, versus making a WAFG as to what you mean.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » February 25, 2004, 6:57 pm

What was that supposed to mean/say?

It means what it says. Try reading it again.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » February 25, 2004, 7:21 pm

Technically caffeine is addictive. Physical addiction is characterised by physiological withdrawal symptoms in the absence of the addictive substance. These symptoms are the result of changes in neurotransmitter production & bioavailability and or changes in receptor sensitivity. These symptoms are neurologically opposite of the symptoms caused by use of the substance. Though interpretation of this is tough until you understand the nervous system a good deal better.

The question becomes is a given addiction problematic to the addict. Caffeine use has few inherently detrimental side effects, though it certainly has some. The detrimental side effects of caffeine are typically only apparent with long term use of extreme doses. Basically it is difficult to ingest enough caffeine by typical intake methods to cause problems.

Caffeine use is accepted by society so there are no criminal repercussions.

Caffeine withdrawal symptoms are minimal because of the diffuse manner in which it potentiates neurochemical changes and the low dose typical usage.

In brief, it is addictive...use has few detrimental side effects at typical dosage levels...withdrawal symptoms are minimal

Kalifen · Post by **Kalifen** » February 25, 2004, 11:23 pm

[quote="Hesten"]Bad things:
SKipped the Kyoto environmental agreement that 108 countries, INCLUDING USA had signet at first, that way making sure US factories can pollute as much as they want (can you say lobbysts anyone).

Before that not many people really had an opinion on GWB in Sweden but after that many have taken a solid stance against him, at lest among my firends and co workers, after this we also saw the birth of the insults including GWB s name such as haha you did a Bush, Oh man dont do a Bush now, theese still live in some areas in Sweden.

Setting up war criminal camp that break the constitution, and several international laws.
Imprisoning non-US citizens in said war criminal camps for up to 18 months without trial.

This is intresting because I do not se a huge talk about this, for me its just one more proof that US shouldent be called a democratic state. In Sweden at lest this is a huge issue ( one Swede is at one camp and have been for a while now)and I know many cant understand how they ( the US ) can do it, how it even exist in their mind that they think they can do this and act as nothing happend. Maybe this isent talked about in the US but if it is what are people saying ?

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » February 26, 2004, 8:15 am

I've definately heard it spewed tons of times that Caffeine is more addicting than crack. Whether it holds true or not, I have nfc.

hahahahahahahah. that's a good one. whoever told you that was talking out of their ass. I consider myself an expert on addiction and I think that getting over one requires first and foremost the mental willpower to do so. Secondly, quitting an addiction requires a certain level of motivation depending on the strength of addiction, which in turn depends partly on the substance.

Chmee · Post by **Chmee** » February 26, 2004, 11:43 am

Kyoto was pretty much dead in the U.S. long before Bush took office. In 1997 the senate voted 95-0 for a resolution that unless it included developing countries and didn't signficantly harm the U.S. economy they wouldn't vote to approve Kyoto. Given the likelihood that developing countries being included or the U.s. economy not being significantly impacted were both very low, it is extremely unlikely it would have been passed no matter who was president.

Which is a good thing as far as I am concerned.

There are a lot of different elements to the global warming debate. There is not much debate that there has been warming during the 20th century. There is some question about how much. The surface record has generally shown more warming than the satelite record, with the weather balloon data generally tracking with the satellite record (the satillite record is only available for the last 30 or so years however). How much of that warming is actually caused by humans is another question. Some of it probably is. But not necessarily all of it. The earth does go through warming and cooling trends naturally. Scientists are still working to figure out all the mechanisms involved (climate is very complex). Lastly, from a policy point the question comes up how detrimental are the likely effects? The earth has been warmer before, and most of the warming predicted in most global warming models will occur in the colder regions/during winter months. How likely are any of the various scary possibilities pushed forth of things like superstorms, the gulf stream shutting down, etc?

Personally I don't think the threat has been adequetly established yet to justify kyoto. And the changes just from kyoto only make fairly small changes to the predictions. To make substantial changes signficantly larger changes would need to be made. Considering how difficult Kyoto has proven to be to implement, the larger changes are unlikely to fly unless a more imminent threat is established. Kyoto is pretty unlikely to happen at present since Russia recently seems not be willing to accept it, which means they won't get to the necessary percentage to cause its ratification to go into effect. Certainly we need to continue research in the area though.