NFL Thread

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » November 13, 2007, 1:10 pm

One big difference between this and college football though...keep losing like this in the NFL and you risk losing the franchise

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » November 13, 2007, 1:53 pm

Don't worry, winnow. The Cleveland football Browns will be seeing you soon.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » November 13, 2007, 1:56 pm

Dude, the Cardinals are 4-5.

And 4 of the losses are to East Coast teams: Baltimore, Carolina, Washington, Tampa Bay.

And none of those teams are even good.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » November 13, 2007, 4:01 pm

Winnow wrote:Favre is doing well this year although he's been close to throwing picks on several of his circus throws and has just been lucky so far.

You can say that about every QB in every league when they throw to a covered reciever, with the difference being Favre has done it consistently and often enough (as have some others) that you can't legitimately call it luck. Sure, he's hold the NFL record on interceptions as well as his other records but when you have a 38 year old leading a quasi-contender* its not just because he owns the world's largest horseshoe.

The Cardinals should be proud of their run defense: yeah its only Detroit but Kevin Jones is a quality back and no one else has shut them down so harshly. Boog brought a legitimate point about the the Lions still scoring 21 pts but a win is a win. I still think the Lions will finish with a better record than many predicted (maybe not quite living up to Kitna's 10 win boast) and its marked improvement for a team that was abyssmal to be be flirting with decency even inconsistently. The real mark will be can they keep improving through the tough part of their sched and next season (that goes for a team like the Browns too).

And how about the return of the Sex Canon to Chicago? You Bears fans ready to believe in Rexie again?

* so called because I don't think they are as good as the Cowboys or the Steelers, never mind the Colts or the Patriots

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 13, 2007, 5:09 pm

Zamtuk wrote:Don't worry, winnow. The Cleveland football Browns will be seeing you soon.

Bring'em on! The Cardinals should be 6-5 by then!

Cardinals, for the most part, have lost tight games. They are primed to move in a positive direction. The Ohio teams are just what the doctor ordered.

Cleveland is a home game for the Cardinals. No one comes into OUR house and walks away with a win! (except Carolina)

Arizona vs Cincinatti:

Last Meeting: Nov 2, 2003

Cardinals 17
Cincinatti 14

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » November 19, 2007, 12:50 am

Soooooo....this year:

Pittsburgh - Lost to the Arizona Cardinals
Detroit - Lost to the Arizona Cardinals
Cincinnati - Lost to the Arizona Cardinals
Cleveland - Up next Sunday!

Bubba's the only one that can talk smack on this board atm! Favre must be on whatever drug replaced steroids for athletes!

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » November 19, 2007, 12:14 pm

True, but the Cardinals are a middling an uninteresting team, for the most part--sadly, the Broncos are not much better this season, so I have no smack to talk. Even sadder, I have been watching Patriots games....fucking hate boston, but each game is like watching a trainwreck...can't seem to peel away.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » November 19, 2007, 3:40 pm

Winnow wrote: Cleveland - Up next Sunday!

This should be a really good game, however it goes down. I am really looking forward to it.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 2, 2007, 9:24 pm

UPDATE:

Pittsburgh - Lost to the Arizona Cardinals
Detroit - Lost to the Arizona Cardinals
Cincinnati - Lost to the Arizona Cardinals
Cleveland - Lost to the Arizona Cardinals

Good game although I would have lost my grip if the refs made a third horrible call after reviewing a play.

Cleveland's Interception wasn't an interception
Braylon Edwards clearly cam in contact with a Cardinal player on his way to the ground
...and there was no way in hell Winslow was inbounds on the last play of the game.

If the ref would have called that a TD, I would be convinced that entire game was fixed. As it stands, that head ref should be fired.

Anyways, AZ completes it's sweep of the midwest (plus Pittsburgh). (scoreboard - head to head)

AZ is tied for the last playoff spot although they don't deserve it after losing twice to the 49'ers.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » December 3, 2007, 1:55 am

winslow did make that catch in bounds. he was pushed down and still was able to put one foot in. i'm not going to call foul on the game for any amount of time, as it shouldn't have even came down that play.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 3, 2007, 2:44 am

Zamtuk wrote:winslow did make that catch in bounds. he was pushed down and still was able to put one foot in. i'm not going to call foul on the game for any amount of time, as it shouldn't have even came down that play.

Cleveland caught two other breaks prior to that.

The Cardinal players were going for the ball on that last play and weren't pushing Winslow out. I don't think he'd have gotten the second foot in anyway. Nice catch though.

Arizona's kind of screwed with Boldin pulling a hammy or whatever he injured in that game. Their 3rd and 4th string receivers did OK, but with Fitzgerald and Boldin both out it's going to be tough going.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » December 3, 2007, 12:40 pm

Cleveland basically served that game on a platter to you in the fourth quarter. I would go back and count the penalties in that quarter alone, but I'd get too pissed off. Especially that goddamned personal foul on the fucking final return.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » December 3, 2007, 12:46 pm

I didn't see the game. Humorously, though, I was watching ESPN after the games, and the talking heads were going off on how awful the Winslow call was and how the Cardinals should have never won that game and it was handed to them by the refs.

I have no opinion, not having seen the game, just amused at the disparity of opinion.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 3, 2007, 12:59 pm

Sueven wrote:I didn't see the game. Humorously, though, I was watching ESPN after the games, and the talking heads were going off on how awful the Winslow call was and how the Cardinals should have never won that game and it was handed to them by the refs.

I have no opinion, not having seen the game, just amused at the disparity of opinion.

The officiating in that game was very very bad.

Three plays went to review and all three may have not been the correct call after review.

If you're keeping score, the Cardinals got screwed twice (Cleveland Interception that wasn't one, and Blaylon Edwards was down by contact) and Cleveland possibly once (Winslow catch), so the Browns didn't get screwed in that game. They still have 2 of the three bad calls go their way...people like to focus on the final play, I understand that, but someone that saw the game should know that the Browns and Cardinals needed some better officiating for the entire game and not just the last play.

I guess you could say they were consistent. They didn't overturn any play which is baffling considering how obvious two of them were.

Anyways, the Cardinals would have the last playoff spot in the NFC if the playoffs started today. That's hilarious. (considering they lost twice to the crappy 49'ers)

If Boldin and Fitzgerald can get healthy, maybe they can hang on. Boldin dislocated his toe. That sounds like it will be a nagging injury.

Post by **Sylvus** » December 3, 2007, 1:04 pm

That Winslow catch should absolutely have been ruled in-bounds.

NFL Rules wrote:If a receiver would have landed inbounds with both feet but is carried or pushed out of bounds while maintaining possession of the ball, pass is complete at the out-of-bounds spot.

I was at a bar watching the games last night and that Cleveland-Arizona game was on the TV most in my field of view. I couldn't believe that call wasn't overturned.

Sabek · Post by **Sabek** » December 3, 2007, 4:15 pm

Sylvus wrote:That Winslow catch should absolutely have been ruled in-bounds.

NFL Rules wrote:If a receiver would have landed inbounds with both feet but is carried or pushed out of bounds while maintaining possession of the ball, pass is complete at the out-of-bounds spot.
I was at a bar watching the games last night and that Cleveland-Arizona game was on the TV most in my field of view. I couldn't believe that call wasn't overturned.

I thought I heard that a receiver being pushed out was a non-reviewable play.

Post by **Sylvus** » December 3, 2007, 4:33 pm

That's possible, they reviewed something on it though. Time expired and there was still a while before the ref came out and gave the incomplete pass signal.

My point was that it was a terrible call!

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » December 3, 2007, 4:48 pm

It is not reviewable if they rule that he was pushed out of not pushed out. They should just allow anything to be reviewable and stop being retarded.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 3, 2007, 5:03 pm

Sabek wrote: I thought I heard that a receiver being pushed out was a non-reviewable play.

That's correct. They referred to it as a judgment call. The ref was in excellent position and his eyes were all over the play if you see it in slow motion.

It's wishful thinking that he would have gotten two feet down inbounds. He "may" have but it was far from a sure thing even if he wasn't touched. You've got to let the defense do something. They were trying to hit him, knock the ball out of his hands, etc. There's more going on with a defensive player than trying to push a player out of bounds when contact is made on the sidelines.

If Winslow was set and not in motion when he caught the ball it would be a different story. (jumping straight up for the ball while in bounds)

On a positive note for that neck of the woods, ex Michigan player Steve Breston has been doing a great job returning kicks for Arizona!

Post by **Sylvus** » December 3, 2007, 5:08 pm

Winnow wrote:You've got to let the defense do something. They were trying to hit him, knock the ball out of his hands, etc. There's more going on with a defensive player than trying to push a player out of bounds when contact is made on the sidelines.

No one is suggesting that the defense shouldn't be allowed to do all of those things. Knock him into the third row of the stands, just make the right call when he stands up and has the ball in his hands. If he looked to be inbounds before they knocked him into the stands, it's a catch. It's absolutely a call that should be reviewable.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 3, 2007, 5:23 pm

Sylvus wrote: It's absolutely a call that should be reviewable.

I agree but in this case, Winslow was jumping backwards and towards the sidelines so it would be inconclusive IMO and go back to the original ref's judgment call. I don't think anyone could say he would have definitely landed both feet inbounds on that play unless he happened to be set and jumped straight up in the air to catch the ball.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » December 3, 2007, 5:28 pm

Yeah, he was jumping backwards. When he landed he was off in the sidelines. Somewhere between jumping up and coming down, he switched directions. I'm not sure how you could say he wouldn't have landed in bounds, when while he was pushed out he still had one foot down. The other one was in the air due to the blow he just recieved. I really don't know how you can argue that, other than to be a douchebag. As I said, I won't use that call as an excuse at all, but you are a bit foolish to think he wouldn't have landed in bounds, after you had admitted as much earlier in this thread.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 3, 2007, 6:25 pm

Zamtuk wrote: I won't use that call as an excuse at all, but you are a bit foolish to think he wouldn't have landed in bounds, after you had admitted as much earlier in this thread.

When did I say he would have landed inbounds? The closest I came is that it was a possible.

Even his first toe is on the line:

Out of bounds! Even that foot shouldn't have been that close but he got spun around, actually taking that foot closer to the playing field.

I couldn't find a You Tube video of this. Anyone have a link to a video?

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » December 6, 2007, 1:23 am

Here's what Dr. Z had to say about the Browns, on si.com now:

Dr. Z wrote:Hoo boy, did the officials ever screw them out of this one. Kellen Winslow catches what should have been the winning TD pass against the Cardinals. Classic force out. I mean the play couldn't be drawn up any more clearly. Booth review. No, he caught it out of bounds was the ruling. The forceout rule is goofy to begin with, since it involves supposition. But why even have it on the books if they're afraid to call it?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 6, 2007, 3:05 am

Sueven wrote:Here's what Dr. Z had to say about the Browns, on si.com now:

Dr. Z wrote:Hoo boy, did the officials ever screw them out of this one. Kellen Winslow catches what should have been the winning TD pass against the Cardinals. Classic force out. I mean the play couldn't be drawn up any more clearly. Booth review. No, he caught it out of bounds was the ruling. The forceout rule is goofy to begin with, since it involves supposition. But why even have it on the books if they're afraid to call it?

What pisses me off about that is totally ignoring the two other reviewed calls that were even worse that went against the Cardinals. Who fucking cares if that was the last play of the game. It wouldn't have come down to that if the officials had made the right calls with the two other reviewed plays. Dr. Z's an idiot. If you're going to discuss a blown call, discuss all three blown calls that impacted the game, one of which was a TD by the Browns.

If you didn't watch the game and see video of the other two reviewed calls, fall in line with the other partial game evaluators. The Browns lost that game long before that final play.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » December 6, 2007, 12:35 pm

We absolutely didn't deserve to win that game, but when it came down to something like that, it is a pretty warranted gripe.

You know, like a few players coming off a bench and getting suspended for a game....

Not too bad when the shoe is on the other foot, huh?

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » December 20, 2007, 2:38 am

Update: Cardinals mathematically eliminated from playoffs. I hope that they either improve or get rid of Larry Fitzgerald so he gets to play for a competent team.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 20, 2007, 2:50 am

Zamtuk wrote:We absolutely didn't deserve to win that game, but when it came down to something like that, it is a pretty warranted gripe.

You know, like a few players coming off a bench and getting suspended for a game....

Not too bad when the shoe is on the other foot, huh?

Ill let you have that last play if the other two badly reviewed calls are reversed that went against the Cardinals as Cleveland never would have been in position to have a last ditch effort at winning then.

noel · Post by **noel** » December 30, 2007, 9:54 pm

So for whatever reason we haven't seen a lot of Saints games out here in Cali this year, and I've really not followed them too much. Can someone familiar with their play this year explain to me why they sucked so bad? I know Bush was playing poorly and then injured, and I think McAllister was also injured, but I was watching today as Brees set the season record for completions, and it occurred to me that it'd be difficult to do that and also to suck. What the hell happened to them this year?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 30, 2007, 10:08 pm

Rams: 19
Cardinsal: 48

Steelers: 21
Ravens: 27

What's the Steeler excuse this week?

Used excuses:

-already made the playoffs, they don't care (the anti Patriots mentalitly)
-bad weather made them play bad
-perfect conditions confused them and caused them to lose to the Cardinals
-jockstraps too tight, trainer fired

Steelers are going to lose to Jacksonville next week. Hope resting all their starters with 3rd seed in the AFC at steak was worth it. Pussies!

Cardinals are on pace for a 10-6 season next year as they have increased their win total by 2 each of the last two years.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » December 30, 2007, 10:17 pm

For most teams, todays games were meaningless. Most playoff bound starters were benched after the first half or sooner. A Cardinal's win today meant as much as a Steeler's loss - absolutely nothing!

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » December 30, 2007, 10:18 pm

Who's the starter next year? Leinart? Seems like they finally got some rhythm on offense, and that could screw it up. Though, Fitzgerald played very well with all QBs and when Boldin was in/out.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 30, 2007, 10:50 pm

Spang wrote:For most teams, todays games were meaningless. Most playoff bound starters were benched after the first half or sooner. A Cardinal's win today meant as much as a Steeler's loss - absolutely nothing!

Steelers are 1-3 their last four games, 3-4 their last seven with losses coming to Jacksonville (who they play next week) and Patriots who they'll lose t the next week if they manage to beak Jacksonville.

They've beaten...the Bengals, Dolphins (barely) and Rams the 2nd half of the season. Wow. That's awesome. They've also lost to the Cardinals and Broncos. They're extremely lucky to be in the playoffs. They had an easy schedule and lost to the few good teams they played.

Aardor wrote:Who's the starter next year? Leinart? Seems like they finally got some rhythm on offense, and that could screw it up. Though, Fitzgerald played very well with all QBs and when Boldin was in/out.

I'm a little concerned about Leinart. He looked pretty good his first season but horrible earlier this year. Maybe the broken collarbone will help him refocus on football instead of the Hollywood lifestyle since that fades fast when you're not in the limelight.

I can see Warner starting next year with Leinart being a capable QB to step in when Warner eventually goes down. I think Whisenhunt will play who he thinks is more ready after preseason next year and won't be pressured into starting Leinart.

I hope the Cardinals draft a good RB in the draft and another CB. Edge is washed up.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » December 30, 2007, 11:49 pm

3rd seed was not even something to play for since San Diego had to lose to the Raiders for it to matter. They held out half their starters....what do you have to gain by getting someone hurt in a meaningless game? I guess if your team was ever in the playoffs you might have a clue.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » December 31, 2007, 3:27 am

Winnow wrote:
Spang wrote:For most teams, todays games were meaningless. Most playoff bound starters were benched after the first half or sooner. A Cardinal's win today meant as much as a Steeler's loss - absolutely nothing!
Steelers are 1-3 their last four games, 3-4 their last seven with losses coming to Jacksonville (who they play next week) and Patriots who they'll lose t the next week if they manage to beak Jacksonville.

They've beaten...the Bengals, Dolphins (barely) and Rams the 2nd half of the season. Wow. That's awesome. They've also lost to the Cardinals and Broncos. They're extremely lucky to be in the playoffs. They had an easy schedule and lost to the few good teams they played.

Who gives a shit?!

They made the playoffs! Where are the Cardinals gonna be next weekend?

On the couch!

P.S. If I recall correctly, last year the Colts didn't do well in the second half of the regular season. Come playoff time, though, they did pretty good.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 31, 2007, 4:36 am

Spang wrote:
They made the playoffs! Where are the Cardinals gonna be next weekend?

On the couch!

...drinking beers, laughing at the team they beat, along with all of those other midwest teams (Cinn, Det, Clev), lose in the first round, knowing better things are coming for the Cards! Steelers are in the beginning stages of a death spiral.

The Steelers didn't beat a good team the entire season (and neither did Arizona seeing as they beat Pittsburgh)and they're going to lose again to Jacksonville. The Jaguars already beat the Steelers this season in Pittsburgh so I'm not sure there's much of a homefield advantage for the playoffs.

Sure looks like it was snowing the last time the Jags beat the Steelers:

maybe it was the bad weather that helped the warm weather team win?

Brrrrr! Just wait until the Jags have to go to Pittsburgh when the weather is bad!

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » December 31, 2007, 11:56 am

I totally understand Winnow.

I enjoy watching the Suns lose every year in the playoffs.

Shouldn't you be worried about your annual high level draft pick? AGAIN?

Let me help you with your post to start next season.

I'm liking (Insert high draft pick name here) more and more. I say this every year it seems, but it looks like this might be the year the Cardinals go places! (make the playoffs)

The Cardinal defense has been on the verge of dominance the past three years . If all goes well, (Insert draft pick name here) will make a huge difference in defending the run. He's joining some excellent players on the line in Bertrand Berry, Darnell Dockett and Chike Okeafor. Arizona is going to have a 3-4 defense so I'm not sure who will be starting but it will be three great players on the line.

I haven't see much of him yet, but I'm liking the new Cardinals coach, Ken Whisenhunt. At first glance, he seems like a clone of Bill Cowher in appearance and looks to be a no nonsense type coach which is a good thing for the Cardinals...we don't need "soft" player's coaches here.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 31, 2007, 12:41 pm

8-8 isn't great but it's a two game a year increase. Following that trend, they'll be 10-6 next year.

2008 is Arizona's year for sports!

Suns: pretty much a lock to be repeat champions
D'Backs: only three teams were better in 2007. on the upswing and already made it to 2nd round of playoffs this year
Cardinals: playoff bound

So we're looking at possibly two national champions and a playoff contender in 2008!

Hockey really isn't a sport anymore and I won't even count the Phoenix Mercury National Champions which beat down the Detroit team (which continues to demonstrate that the Pac 10 has by far the best record for women athletics both individual and team, and Arizona remains a haven for female athletes while the Eastern colleges and states really only care about men's football. Well rounded indeed!)

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » December 31, 2007, 12:59 pm

Suns: pretty much a lock to be repeat champions

So winning the Western Division is your definition of successful? Sad.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 31, 2007, 1:06 pm

Tyek wrote:
Suns: pretty much a lock to be repeat champions
So winning the Western Division is your definition of successful? Sad.

No, the Suns won it all last year. Cheating refs fixing the Suns/Spurs series along with retard Stern doing the wrong thing in the Horry cheapshot debacle pretty much eliminates the Spurs. No chance the East would win so that leaves the Suns as Champions.

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » December 31, 2007, 1:44 pm

Not that there is any point to this but:

1. Stern followed the rules. Sure, many would agree that it's a crappy rule, but it was there and the players broke it. I disagree with them getting suspended but I fully understand that they couldn't have pardoned the Suns from the rule without people bitching equally as much about it.

2. People have asked you this about 10 times already Winnow, but: do you have any proof that the Suns/Spurs game had any ref fixing, other than the single ref who fixed games being the ref to that game? Any controversial calls made by that ref? You know he didn't fix every game, and he fixed against spreads, right?

This was a good week 17 in my opinion. Of all the games I had access too, almost every team (except for the stillers!) played starters and played hard.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » December 31, 2007, 5:57 pm

No, the Suns won it all last year. Cheating refs fixing the Suns/Spurs series along with retard Stern doing the wrong thing in the Horry cheapshot debacle pretty much eliminates the Spurs. No chance the East would win so that leaves the Suns as Champions.

NICE

Winnow makes a strong bid for quote of 2007 on the last day of the year!!!!

You are as myopic as a Raider fan.

Actually Winnow, they are 5 times defending champs

In 2003 the Suns were beaten in the first round by the Spurs, but only after 6 games. Clearly the Suns were better then the Spurs and the loss was most likely due to a cheating Spurs fan flashing his laser pen in the Suns eyes while they were shooting.

In 2004 the Suns had the league's top record and beat the all of the teams in the league at least once, which clearly shows their domination, therefore the title is rightfully theirs.

In 2005 the Suns again had the leagues best record. The Suns lost to the Spurs 4-1 in the conference finals, but in an obvious move by the Stern league conspiracy, Joe Johnson sat out the first 2 games and that is the only reason the Suns did not win. With Johnson in, the Suns win easy, so the threepeat is accomplished!!!

In 2006, The Suns lost Amare, they once again clearly were superior then anyone else. With Amare out most of the year, he was not up to his usual performance, which totally negates the fact that the Suns were owned by Dallas. Once again the clear fact is that with Amare the Suns win easily. I mean look they had the league's best record the last three years and are the 4x defending champs already.

In 2007 the Stern conspiracy is finally exposed. The world can breathe easier and the World Championship stays right where it belongs...in Phoenix.

In 2008, Despite the obvious fact that the Suns are the most amazing dynasty ever, the Stern conspiracy rears it's ugly head and he forces the league to play their games. This obvious waste of gas, lighting and energy would ultimately lead to more greenhouse gases. Al Gore, who everyone knows, is more intelligent then Stern, declares that the Suns should be declared World Champions for the next 5 years so that the earth has time to mend itself. Stern refuses and the Suns tank out in the conference finals again, but Gore rallies his environmental army and gets Congress to recognize the Suns superiority.

This was fun, thanks Winnow. I bet I can make a case that you are the champs every year!!!

I say Winnow should copy and paste this into the Suns Wikipedia page.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » December 31, 2007, 6:14 pm

I can make a case for them being three time defending champions but five is a bit much!

Nash should be three time defending MVP though.

Currently the Suns have five players averaging 16+ ppg. That's a rarer occurrence than the Patriots going undefeated this year.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » December 31, 2007, 11:48 pm

Make a case for them in the NBA thread. This thread is about the NFL!

Aardor · Post by **Aardor** » January 3, 2008, 5:25 pm

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3179409

The Tuna wants Ricky back. I hope Ricky has a record breaking year, but Ronnie Brown is a beast and has to be the starter.