It's time to close our borders.

Legenae · Post by **Legenae** » June 15, 2003, 5:13 pm

Xzion wrote:
In in europe right now and being an american im gettin a lot of bullshit from people, and who do i have to thank!!

Just lie and tell them you are Canadian.

And for the record, I'm not moving to the States for a "better way of life." As a Canadian, life is pretty good here. I'm engaged to an American, and he has a pretty good set up (job, house, etc) in Alaska. So it's easier for me to move since I don't have any ties here (well, except family). Unfortunately I have to give up my Canadian citizenship.

C'est la vie!

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » June 15, 2003, 5:25 pm

Wait, you can't be a Canadian unless you live in Canada, or do you give up your citizenship when you marry someone from another country. I don't get why you lose your citizenship

noel · Post by **noel** » June 15, 2003, 5:33 pm

My understanding of it is... Canada allows for dual-citizenship. The US does not.

Legenae · Post by **Legenae** » June 15, 2003, 7:58 pm

Aranuil wrote:My understanding of it is... Canada allows for dual-citizenship. The US does not.

Yep. That's it. I think they changed it to no dual-citizenship after the 9/11 attacks. From what I hear is that those people who already had dual-citizenships before the attacks, can keep it, but to those of us moving now, well it's a no go. So, if I move to the US and become a citizen, it's bye bye to my Canadian status. Oh well.

One thing I'm not going to miss about Canada is being taxed to high heaven. I'm told that there isn't any tax in Alaska. Here in Ontario, we pay 15% tax on everything we buy. *sigh*

I told my fiance, though, that come Olympics and hockey, I will cheer for Canada first.

I guess I'll be sitting alone in the corner wearing my Roots clothing and my "I Am Canadian" hat, waving a little Canadian flag, while saying "eh?" hehe

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » June 15, 2003, 8:31 pm

No one in the US watches the Olympics.

Raistin · Post by **Raistin** » June 16, 2003, 12:37 am

I could have sworn you couldnt have duel citizenship ever,once you were a US citizen.

Someone do a quick search!

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » June 16, 2003, 1:56 am

I could have sworn you couldnt have duel citizenship ever,once you were a US citizen.

I can pretty much confirm that. I have relatives who hide their ROC passports everytime they come back from overseas trips. I was instructed to do the same. If you were discovered to have another passport other than a US one, your other would be confiscated and snipped (hole punched, then returned to you). They've been doing this well before 9/11 ever happened.

Yes it's a very fucking childish official policy, but hardly surprising to say the least. Luckily it means very little other than a minor inconvenience if the other country you're a citizen of recognizes dual citizenship. It's a very simple matter to hide your other passport.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » June 16, 2003, 10:48 am

Sueven wrote:Yeah, close the borders and fuck our economy even more than it is.

Face it: we rely on illegal migrant workers in order to sustain any semblance of agriculture in this country. Closing the border completely (were it in fact possible) would serve no purpose beyond entirely ruining a major segment of our economy.

The real solution to illegal immigration problems lies in accountability. Make those who violate the labor laws accountable for their actions, instead of letting them pawn the responsibility off on subordinates who tend to be illegal immigrants anyway.

The solution to the problem of illegal immigrants raping 9 year old californian girls doesn't exist, because it's not a fucking problem. Citizenship status has nothing to do with a propensity to violent crime.

Bingo

1. Many industries rely on immigration, even under the table paid illegal immigration.
2. Illegal immigrants!=rapists.

This whole connection is idiotic. I mean really, what is this coming from? It's not as if anyone from Wisconsin even sees 1st generation immigrants daily anyhow. I think you've been isolated too long Met, stop staring at the fucking livestock already

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » June 16, 2003, 11:25 am

"1. Many industries rely on immigration, even under the table paid illegal immigration"

Yeah like lawyers

Legenae · Post by **Legenae** » June 16, 2003, 11:40 am

Kelgar wrote:
I could have sworn you couldnt have duel citizenship ever,once you were a US citizen.
I can pretty much confirm that. I have relatives who hide their ROC passports everytime they come back from overseas trips. I was instructed to do the same. If you were discovered to have another passport other than a US one, your other would be confiscated and snipped (hole punched, then returned to you). They've been doing this well before 9/11 ever happened.

Yes it's a very fucking childish official policy, but hardly surprising to say the least. Luckily it means very little other than a minor inconvenience if the other country you're a citizen of recognizes dual citizenship. It's a very simple matter to hide your other passport.

So, there is no way for the US to tell if you apply for citizenship of a different country?

hmmm

*edit* Thanks for correcting me Raistin. I guess I assumed that the US was like Canada in allowing people to have dual citizenship.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » June 16, 2003, 11:46 am

Legenae wrote:
Kelgar wrote:
I could have sworn you couldnt have duel citizenship ever,once you were a US citizen.
I can pretty much confirm that. I have relatives who hide their ROC passports everytime they come back from overseas trips. I was instructed to do the same. If you were discovered to have another passport other than a US one, your other would be confiscated and snipped (hole punched, then returned to you). They've been doing this well before 9/11 ever happened.

Yes it's a very fucking childish official policy, but hardly surprising to say the least. Luckily it means very little other than a minor inconvenience if the other country you're a citizen of recognizes dual citizenship. It's a very simple matter to hide your other passport.
So, there is no way for the US to tell if you apply for citizenship of a different country?

hmmm

*edit* Thanks for correcting me Raistin. I guess I assumed that the US was like Canada in allowing people to have dual citizenship.

Just dont forget to pay income tax for both countries.

Legenae · Post by **Legenae** » June 16, 2003, 11:48 am

Cartalas wrote: Just dont forget to pay income tax for both countries.

I know that already.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » June 16, 2003, 11:59 am

Cartalas wrote:"1. Many industries rely on immigration, even under the table paid illegal immigration"

Yeah like lawyers

Wha?

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » June 16, 2003, 12:01 pm

Legenae wrote:
Cartalas wrote: Just dont forget to pay income tax for both countries.
I know that already.

Damn that has to suck?

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » June 16, 2003, 2:16 pm

I learned something on this thread, thanks!

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » June 16, 2003, 6:45 pm

Chidoro wrote:This whole connection is idiotic. I mean really, what is this coming from? It's not as if anyone from Wisconsin even sees 1st generation immigrants daily anyhow. I think you've been isolated too long Met, stop staring at the fucking livestock already

I will admit my choice of subject lines for this thread was a really poor choice. It sucked. However, if you read my original post, in the body of the post, I stated "It's time to get serious and tighten up our borders." I didn't mean to close off all immigration. (This is as close to backpedaling as I'm gonna get... so deal with it.)

For the record I advocate halting illegal immigration! I fully support valid, legal, controlled immigration.

My second point -- which has been largely overlooked -- is the fact the suspect's alien status never made it into the news articles. I think it's an important part of the story since the taxpayers of California are going to be shouldering the costs of justice, care, and incarceration for this guy for much (or all) of his life.

Not only could the tragedy have been avoided but these substantial costs could also have been avoided if we merely enforced our existing laws and kept this particular illegal alien out of our country. Who knows how many other illegal aliens are caught up in the California legal system... but we know that state is facing a severe budget problem. Of course it wouldn't be politically correct to make a connection there...

If our economy truly suffered by the lack of "cheap" labor, then you can be sure the flow of legal immigrants would be increased. Meanwhile our country has a MORAL obligation to enforce the law and to work through diplomatic means to improve the conditions of the countries whose peoples are flocking to our borders.

The "Liberal" solution of merely looking the other way in regards this problem is actually hurting these illegals by teasing them into risky border crossings and then life as a perpetual underclass here in the USA. If you really cared about these people you'd tighten the border and then DEMAND the governments of the hemisphere fix what's wrong with local conditions in Central and South America. The current solution of crocodile tears while you drive by in your BMW is simply creating a new class of slaves here in this county.

You all can slam me for stating the truth about this situation, but shame on you all for being too cool to care.

PS. Chidoro, my church is establishing an outreach program, we have many Mexicans moving into our area to work at a local meat-packing plant... so many that my church held a Cinco De Mayo celebration this year. We are sending 12 people from our congregation to Agua Prieta, Mexico to help build housing in August. So don't think that central Wisconsin is immune or isolated from this problem.

Finally Chidoro... better give the livestock here in Wisconsin some credit, there are clueless liberals on this board who have less intrinsic value in the cosmic scheme of things...

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » June 16, 2003, 7:23 pm

Bravo Metanis Bravo

Acies · Post by **Acies** » June 16, 2003, 7:30 pm

Met, change the title of the thread then. It is misleading to your intent.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » June 16, 2003, 7:53 pm

My fucking oath... I don't believe this horseshit...

My second point -- which has been largely overlooked -- is the fact the suspect's alien status never made it into the news articles. I think it's an important part of the story since the taxpayers of California are going to be shouldering the costs of justice, care, and incarceration for this guy for much (or all) of his life.

OK I will give you that the residents of California will be paying for his trial, incarceration, etc but how is this any different from any other violent crime committed in California? Do people never come from any other part of the USA and commit crimes in California? You want to make this illegal alien thing appear as a valid concern, how about posting some stats.

What % of violent crimes in the US are committed by illegal aliens? Whats % of violent crime in California? Any other border states?

Not only could the tragedy have been avoided but these substantial costs could also have been avoided if we merely enforced our existing laws and kept this particular illegal alien out of our country. Who knows how many other illegal aliens are caught up in the California legal system... but we know that state is facing a severe budget problem. Of course it wouldn't be politically correct to make a connection there...

YES!!! We all know that landed immigrants, visitors who have legally entered the country and US citizens never commit violent crimes: its all the wetbacks, and they need to be kept out! Just don't say you're gonna raise taxes to hire more officers to do it...

The whole premise of your argument is ignorance and fear-mongering, backed up by one case (and I hope they fry the fucker who did this) and the assumption that "California is so fucked up they can't police it".

I agree with having laws on immigration. I agree with enforcing those laws and trying to keep undesirables (be they former criminals or just people incapbable of contributing to society) out. I also believe that when you have as much border and coast as the USA or Canada, you need to be realistic in your expectations: you WILL have illegals that find their way in, no matter what you do. Shit even the Berlin Wall didn't stop all those who wanted out. It IS a problem but you also have to realize these are mostly people who just want a better life, not to murder children. Justice with compassion, not just blind stupidity and fear, should be the hallmark of our society.

I guess it might pump some infrastructure dollars into the economy though if a manned, Berlin-type wall ran along the Mexican and Canadian borders like Metanis seems to advocate

noel · Post by **noel** » June 16, 2003, 8:12 pm

Metanis, you're an idiot. This post is dedicated to the intelligence you'll never have, and your two inept cheerleaders.

Metanis wrote:I will admit my choice of subject lines for this thread was a really poor choice. It sucked. However, if you read my original post, in the body of the post, I stated "It's time to get serious and tighten up our borders." I didn't mean to close off all immigration. (This is as close to backpedaling as I'm gonna get... so deal with it.)

I've revised your first paragraph for you. Should have read:

I suck.

For the record I advocate halting illegal immigration! I fully support valid, legal, controlled immigration.

That's mighty big of you... join the fucking club.

My second point -- which has been largely overlooked -- is the fact the suspect's alien status never made it into the news articles. I think it's an important part of the story since the taxpayers of California are going to be shouldering the costs of justice, care, and incarceration for this guy for much (or all) of his life.

You fucking stupid, ignorant, uneducated, waste of life, piece of shit. Guess who would have been paying for the 'costs of justice, care, and incarceration for much or all of his life', if he'd been a citizen of the US? THAT'S RIGHT KIDS, the taxpayers of California. The fact that he's an immigrant, illegal or otherwise has nothing to do with this, and is hence... NOT NEWSWORTHY. What is newsworthy is that our law enforcement tracked this fucker down, and he's going to get what's coming to him.

Not only could the tragedy have been avoided but these substantial costs could also have been avoided if we merely enforced our existing laws and kept this particular illegal alien out of our country. Who knows how many other illegal aliens are caught up in the California legal system... but we know that state is facing a severe budget problem. Of course it wouldn't be politically correct to make a connection there...

Because people are only raped in the United States when some foreigner comes across the border you pathetic, uninformed, piece of shit. ONCE AGAIN, THE COSTS WOULD BE THE SAME. God you're fucking dumb.

If our economy truly suffered by the lack of "cheap" labor, then you can be sure the flow of legal immigrants would be increased. Meanwhile our country has a MORAL obligation to enforce the law and to work through diplomatic means to improve the conditions of the countries whose peoples are flocking to our borders.

Why do you think that legal immigrants would fill the 'cheap labor' sector of our economy, and not a higher level? Oh that's right, IT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE A PREJUDICED ASSHOLE.

The "Liberal" solution of merely looking the other way in regards this problem is actually hurting these illegals by teasing them into risky border crossings and then life as a perpetual underclass here in the USA. If you really cared about these people you'd tighten the border and then DEMAND the governments of the hemisphere fix what's wrong with local conditions in Central and South America. The current solution of crocodile tears while you drive by in your BMW is simply creating a new class of slaves here in this county.

I don't think you'll find a liberal in this country (UNLESS THEY ARE AS UNINTELLIGENT AS YOU YOU WASTE OF OXYGEN) that thinks illegal immigrants coming into this country are a good thing. The process of naturalization to the US is a good one, and I believe that all immigrants benefit by going through it. I also believe that it can make their assimilation into productive members of our society much easier.

You all can slam me for stating the truth about this situation, but shame on you all for being too cool to care.

What TRUTH have you stated?

1. Illegal Immigration is bad? No shit Sherlock, but that has fuck all to do with a rape case -- It's IRRELEVANT who raped her I hope they rot in hell.
2. The Californian citizens have a right to know he was an illegal because we're going to be the ones eating the cost? We would be eating the cost anyway. Again IRRELEVANT.

3. Liberals believe we should open our borders and not care? Are you fucking high? Do you just read writers liberal/conservative/whatever who are as stupid as you? YOU WON'T FIND SOMEONE IN THE US THAT DOESN'T THINK ILLEGAL BORDER CROSSINGS ARE A PROBLEM. The problem, if you had a fucking brain, is how we secure a border that is 2000 miles long.

Acies and Cartalas. How about reading what the fuck you agree with before you give a standing-O to a fucking piece of trash like Metanis.

Acies · Post by **Acies** » June 16, 2003, 8:28 pm

Aranuil wrote: Acies and Cartalas. How about reading what the fuck you agree with before you give a standing-O to a fucking piece of trash like Metanis.

How about you go back to high school and take english again and again, until reading comprehension sticks with you, idiot.

Where did I fucking agree with him?
Seriously, where?
Yeah, I thought that.
For clarification, I told him to change his title so it will reflect his intent. I did not say "Hey, WTG with shit I do not agree with!"
You know, if you were anymore a fucking tool of public opinion I would try to asphyxiate on my own vomit.

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » June 16, 2003, 8:48 pm

Wulfran wrote:...What % of violent crimes in the US are committed by illegal aliens? Whats % of violent crime in California? Any other border states?

Wulfran, where did I propose some Berlin-style wall? Read what I post... not what you think I posted.

The single biggest solution to illegal immigration is economic development and human rights reforms in Central and South America, but that doesn't mean we have to wring our hands in Aranuil-like futility. We can put pressure on Mexico to help solve the problem, we can be more aggressive in patrolling and blocking the border, etc., etc..

As to your question... a very quick Google search provided this link and I'm sure there are many more on the impact of illegals on the Justice system...

http://www.fairus.org/html/04111604.htm

noel · Post by **noel** » June 16, 2003, 8:55 pm

Acies wrote:
Aranuil wrote: Acies and Cartalas. How about reading what the fuck you agree with before you give a standing-O to a fucking piece of trash like Metanis.
How about you go back to high school and take english again and again, until reading comprehension sticks with you, idiot.

Where did I fucking agree with him?
Seriously, where?
Yeah, I thought that.
For clarification, I told him to change his title so it will reflect his intent. I did not say "Hey, WTG with shit I do not agree with!"
You know, if you were anymore a fucking tool of public opinion I would try to asphyxiate on my own vomit.

My bad, and my apologies. I was speedreading in an effort to kick Mr. Stupid off of his high horse.

Of course, then you slammed, MY reading comprehension. First of all, I think it's a rare occasion when I've been proven wrong, and not admitted it. But by all means, please show me more examples of my own failed reading comprehension. I highly doubt you'll get to more than 5 in my 3000+ posts. Then survey your own posts for shitty communication, spelling, and grammar poor communication if you like, and we'll see who has more.

Acies · Post by **Acies** » June 16, 2003, 8:58 pm

Aranuil wrote:
Acies wrote:
Aranuil wrote: Acies and Cartalas. How about reading what the fuck you agree with before you give a standing-O to a fucking piece of trash like Metanis.
How about you go back to high school and take english again and again, until reading comprehension sticks with you, idiot.

Where did I fucking agree with him?
Seriously, where?
Yeah, I thought that.
For clarification, I told him to change his title so it will reflect his intent. I did not say "Hey, WTG with shit I do not agree with!"
You know, if you were anymore a fucking tool of public opinion I would try to asphyxiate on my own vomit.
My bad, and my apologies. I was speedreading in an effort to kick Mr. Stupid off of his high horse.

Of course, then you slammed, MY reading comprehension. First of all, I think it's a rare occasion when I've been proven wrong, and not admitted it. But by all means, please show me more examples of my own failed reading comprehension. I highly doubt you'll get to more than 5 in my 3000+ posts. Then survey your own posts for shitty communication, spelling, and grammar poor communication if you like, and we'll see who has more.

Actually, your reading comprehension is very astute Aranuil. In fact, I think I can "recall" one instance other than this where you 'May' have slipped, but can't remember exactly where.
Hush, it is just me trying to live up the moment of actually getting to prove you wrong with definity (for once

).

And yes, you vultures out there can quote this if I ever say stuff like this again concerning Aranuil.

Acies · Post by **Acies** » June 16, 2003, 9:12 pm

And on that note:

ANGST!!1!

Out of my system.

noel · Post by **noel** » June 16, 2003, 9:19 pm

Metanis wrote:The single biggest solution to illegal immigration is economic development and human rights reforms in Central and South America, but that doesn't mean we have to wring our hands in Aranuil-like futility.

Please show me where I said we should wring our hands in futility. I'm waiting.

Since you are not only far too inept to form a coherent thought, but also to blatantly arrogant to think that the rest of us cannot see through your ruse, allow me to clarify what I said:

1. I am all for better border control, and those foreigners who are seeking citizenship in the United States going through our naturalization process.

2. Anyone who rapes anyone else should have the option of listening to you talk, or being anally electrocuted, or killed in similarly painful manner, and I don't care where they're from.

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » June 17, 2003, 4:17 am

Pay income tax for both countries?

Lol, fuck that. I don't owe shit for a single NT I make here. Just like I don't owe shit to the Taiwanese government for any penny I made while I was still working in the states. The only time when that shit applies is unless you are employed as a foreigner with a worker's visa.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » June 17, 2003, 9:24 am

Metanis wrote:However, if you read my original post, in the body of the post, I stated "It's time to get serious and tighten up our borders." I didn't mean to close off all immigration. (This is as close to backpedaling as I'm gonna get... so deal with it.)

For the record I advocate halting illegal immigration! I fully support valid, legal, controlled immigration.

Wow, you think? How about this for thought, certain places in this country do a certain amount of looking the other way w/ regards to illegal immigration on purpose. Tightening up the borders won't change the fact that there are certain domestic industries that rely on inexpensive labor. There's not too many left as most have gone overseas but the mentioning of agriculture is one.

My second point -- which has been largely overlooked -- is the fact the suspect's alien status never made it into the news articles. I think it's an important part of the story since the taxpayers of California are going to be shouldering the costs of justice, care, and incarceration for this guy for much (or all) of his life.

It has little to do w/ the case at this point in time. The news made a choice on it's level of importance and felt it was irrelevant.

If our economy truly suffered by the lack of "cheap" labor, then you can be sure the flow of legal immigrants would be increased. Meanwhile our country has a MORAL obligation to enforce the law and to work through diplomatic means to improve the conditions of the countries whose peoples are flocking to our borders.

No, actually they'll just do it somewhere else further screwing up our trade deficit.

The "Liberal" solution of merely looking the other way in regards this problem is actually hurting these illegals by teasing them into risky border crossings and then life as a perpetual underclass here in the USA. If you really cared about these people you'd tighten the border and then DEMAND the governments of the hemisphere fix what's wrong with local conditions in Central and South America. The current solution of crocodile tears while you drive by in your BMW is simply creating a new class of slaves here in this county.

Not sure why you think the term liberal is profanity or something, typical I guess. Why don't you take a look at which states, aside from CA, lie on our borders before you make such a claim. It's beyond idiotic.

You all can slam me for stating the truth about this situation, but shame on you all for being too cool to care.

You just fail to see the bigger picture because you're too busy seeing red thinking it's all of the filthy liberals' faults.

PS. Chidoro, my church is establishing an outreach program, we have many Mexicans moving into our area to work at a local meat-packing plant... so many that my church held a Cinco De Mayo celebration this year. We are sending 12 people from our congregation to Agua Prieta, Mexico to help build housing in August. So don't think that central Wisconsin is immune or isolated from this problem.

Wow, sounds like a true melting pot. You have a few Mexicans and everything!

Finally Chidoro... better give the livestock here in Wisconsin some credit, there are clueless liberals on this board who have less intrinsic value in the cosmic scheme of things...

That's a real zinger.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » June 17, 2003, 11:58 am

Metanis, look up sarcasm and facetious in the dictionary and don't post here until you understand the concepts.

Also, while you are looking things up, you were the one crying about what an incredibly huge problem illegal aliens are: where are your numbers? Your link said SWEET FUCK ALL. It mentions illegal aliens TWICE.

One of immigration’s most troubling consequences is the increase in crime caused by criminal aliens. This is a serious problem, as the government statistics on criminal aliens below make clear.

I have a hard time with the credibility of a website that says this up front: the indication is that most aliens, illegal and non, are criminals, here to pillage you poor law abiding Americans.

About 11 percent of the inmates in Los Angeles county jails are illegal aliens.

11% is a significant number, I'll agree. However, are they violent offenders or just people caught in sweeps for illegal aliens?

Los Angeles county’s six justice-related agencies expended $351 million of their $1.5 billion budget (or about 23 percent) in 1991 on the legal and illegal immigrant population.

More inconclusive numbers.

Annual cost of criminal aliens to California county governments, $112 million

Annual cost of criminal aliens to California state government, $385 million

Total annual cost of criminal aliens to Californian governments, $500 million

These amounts do not include the costs borne by the federal judicial system within California.

Half a billion dollars is huge in personal terms. In government terms, especially to a state the size of California, it loses a lot of its impact. Plus if LA county spent $351 million in 1991 (previous quote) and this study was in 1993 (presumably 1991 or 1992 budget numbers), does this not suggest that LA has the lion's share of the problem? It still doesn't mention a % of the State's budget. And again, no mention of violent crime vs non...

Final conclusion: Metanis' links suffer the same lack of credibility his voiced opinions do...

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » June 17, 2003, 12:03 pm

Kelgar wrote:Pay income tax for both countries?

Lol, fuck that. I don't owe shit for a single NT I make here. Just like I don't owe shit to the Taiwanese government for any penny I made while I was still working in the states. The only time when that shit applies is unless you are employed as a foreigner with a worker's visa.

If you have dual citizenship why wouldnt you pay Income taxes to both countries?

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » June 17, 2003, 12:10 pm

typically, you dont pay taxes to a country if you do not reside there and do not work there.

for instance my friend is a citizen of Trinidad and Tobago, on some kind of work Visa here. He doesnt pay a dime to T&T because he doesnt have a residence there, and he doesnt work in that country.

of course laws vary from country to country.

Kargyle · Post by **Kargyle** » June 17, 2003, 12:13 pm

Well, I don't know about Canada, but US citizens don't pay income tax on money earned outside the country enless they made over a certain amount of money. When my father was leaving over seas many years ago, you had to make something like over 100K in a year, and I believe that was per individual, so if a couple both lived over seas, they could earn around 200k together a year before they had to start paying income taxes. Of course, this is all based on 12 years ago, things could be different now.

*edit* This of course only applies if you are living outside the US. You aren't covered in this way simply because you take a business trip.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » June 17, 2003, 12:20 pm

Kargyle wrote:Well, I don't know about Canada, but US citizens don't pay income tax on money earned outside the country enless they made over a certain amount of money. When my father was leaving over seas many years ago, you had to make something like over 100K in a year, and I believe that was per individual, so if a couple both lived over seas, they could earn around 200k together a year before they had to start paying income taxes. Of course, this is all based on 12 years ago, things could be different now.

*edit* This of course only applies if you are living outside the US. You aren't covered in this way simply because you take a business trip.

I guess my question is. Lets say you are a Citizen of Canada and a citizen of the US, not a citizen of the U.S working in Canada, but a citizen of both countries.

You live in Detroit and work in Windsor. would you have to pay income tax to Canada and the US?

Remember you are a citizen of both.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » June 17, 2003, 12:28 pm

you cant be a citizen of both over the age of 18 (as far as the US is concerned).

so for IRS purposes you are either a Canadian or a US citizen.

ask a canook about the other end

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » June 17, 2003, 12:40 pm

I think what Metanis was trying to imply about the costs being shouldered by the taxpayers is that it would be nice if this guy had actually had to pay taxes. If they are illegally in the country, they are not paying shit to the IRS and thus being more of a burden on publicly funded programs. Not that it would be any less wrong and disgusting if a taxpayer had committed this, but I am sure that this is more common than just one isolated case.

For the record, I do think they should crack down on illegal aliens, but not just for this rapist piece of shit. Rapists should have their dicks cut off and fed to them. I also think Metanis is a moron. It hurts me deep inside where you can't see it to agree even partially with him.

Neost · Post by **Neost** » June 17, 2003, 12:41 pm

I solve that problem by holding dual-citizenship in the US and Zeta-Reticuli so when Planet X finally gets here I'll be whisked to a higher plane of existence and avoid paying income taxes on the spoils.

Drolgin Steingrinder · Post by **Drolgin Steingrinder** » June 17, 2003, 2:45 pm

Damn, we need to get some hardliners in. Right now it seems like Zeta-Reticuli will take anyone...

Neost · Post by **Neost** » June 17, 2003, 2:50 pm

Yeah, those damn retired paladins are fucking everywhere....

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » June 17, 2003, 2:52 pm

human no less

its scandalous

Legenae · Post by **Legenae** » June 17, 2003, 4:39 pm

Back to the taxes bit...

My mother is a Canadian. She lives and works in Canada. Therefore she pays tax in Canada. But one year she went to the States and won some money. So for that year, she also had to pay tax to the US. I think it sucks that you have to pay tax on your winnings. We don't here in Canada. We keep what we win.

Now for me, come spring next year I'll have to pay taxes in both Canada and the US since I have lived in Canada for half the year (well a bit more than half), and the US for the other half.

I will remain in the US after I move though. No travelling back and forth to live/work for me. I'll travel home to visit of course. But since I won't be working in Canada after I move, I won't be paying Canadian income tax.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » June 17, 2003, 4:44 pm

Legenae wrote:Back to the taxes bit...

My mother is a Canadian. She lives and works in Canada. Therefore she pays tax in Canada. But one year she went to the States and won some money. So for that year, she also had to pay tax to the US. I think it sucks that you have to pay tax on your winnings. We don't here in Canada. We keep what we win.

Now for me, come spring next year I'll have to pay taxes in both Canada and the US since I have lived in Canada for half the year (well a bit more than half), and the US for the other half.

I will remain in the US after I move though. No travelling back and forth to live/work for me. I'll travel home to visit of course. But since I won't be working in Canada after I move, I won't be paying Canadian income tax.

Thank you for explaining that.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » June 17, 2003, 5:51 pm

Closing em? Hell no.

Enforcing the goddamn law concernign illegals? Hell yes.

Neither solution has a damn thing to do with this little girl getting hurt....

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » June 17, 2003, 6:31 pm

If you earn an income in the US or Canada you pay income tax on it regardless on where you live. If you make a profit in either country you pay taxes on it. If you own property, you pay property taxes. It really doesn't matter where you live.

I don't many people actually live in the US or work in Canada though, if anyone at all (aside from pro atheletes, performers or other specialized talent).

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » June 18, 2003, 2:08 am

If you have dual citizenship why wouldnt you pay Income taxes to both countries?

The concept is quite simple, yet it needs to be explained over and over to you no doubt.

Exactly what business does money that came from the local economy of another country have being taxed by another country which has fuckwithall to do with said money if you are officially employed as a citizen of the country you are working in and are a permanent resident in that country? Simple: jack and shit. I've got an accountant of over 25 years in my family who has already verified this in my case.

Something else to consider is the logistics of even trying to track down how much money someone makes. What can the IRS do? Ask for company records? My company can tell them to go fuck themselves and all the IRS can do is sit there and impotently shake their fists.

As I've said, only foreigners who are there on working visas are subject to paying taxes of both countries.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » June 18, 2003, 2:39 am

Please discount CA in terms of these discussions...CA is fucking retarded in all shapes and forms...at least until Gray Davis is ousted... and even then, it needs help.