Sigh

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » June 10, 2003, 1:20 pm

miir wrote:
It has been my observation that the only people who face discrimination are those expecting to face it, if you work hard, train in the skills your desired job requires and then do the work and do it well, you get ahead.
That's the biggest load of horseshit I've ever seen you post.... It's very 'metanish'.

Hmm you are free to disagree, but other than the poor slob who works hard and gets hit by a car on his way to work, it is true.

miir · Post by **miir** » June 10, 2003, 1:24 pm

Kylere wrote:
miir wrote:
It has been my observation that the only people who face discrimination are those expecting to face it, if you work hard, train in the skills your desired job requires and then do the work and do it well, you get ahead.
That's the biggest load of horseshit I've ever seen you post.... It's very 'metanish'.
Hmm you are free to disagree, but other than the poor slob who works hard and gets hit by a car on his way to work, it is true.

What fantasyland do you live in?

Motivation, dedication and education does not make anyone immune to discrimination.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » June 10, 2003, 1:30 pm

miir wrote:Motivation, dedication and education does not make anyone immune to discrimination.

You should fucking sell that line to Jesse Jackson. Poetry I tell you!

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » June 10, 2003, 2:04 pm

miir wrote:
Kylere wrote:
miir wrote:
It has been my observation that the only people who face discrimination are those expecting to face it, if you work hard, train in the skills your desired job requires and then do the work and do it well, you get ahead.
That's the biggest load of horseshit I've ever seen you post.... It's very 'metanish'.
Hmm you are free to disagree, but other than the poor slob who works hard and gets hit by a car on his way to work, it is true.

What fantasyland do you live in?

Motivation, dedication and education does not make anyone immune to discrimination.

No but I never said it did make them immune from discrimination did I? I said it will let you get ahead. It will let you achieve your goals, the only thing stopping someone from making progress in their life is the person at hand. If you feel you are being discriminated against, you learn more, work harder and then move on. All races and all religions have been picked on by all the others, it is better to move on or up than to play whine games and stay the same.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » June 10, 2003, 2:07 pm

Kylere wrote:No but I never said it did make them immune from discrimination did I? I said it will let you get ahead. It will let you achieve your goals, the only thing stopping someone from making progress in their life is the person at hand. If you feel you are being discriminated against, you learn more, work harder and then move on. All races and all religions have been picked on by all the others, it is better to move on or up than to play whine games and stay the same.

It's kind of funny watching you people prove my original point over and over and over again.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » June 10, 2003, 2:09 pm

kyoukan wrote:
Kylere wrote:No but I never said it did make them immune from discrimination did I? I said it will let you get ahead. It will let you achieve your goals, the only thing stopping someone from making progress in their life is the person at hand. If you feel you are being discriminated against, you learn more, work harder and then move on. All races and all religions have been picked on by all the others, it is better to move on or up than to play whine games and stay the same.
It's kind of funny watching you people prove my original point over and over and over again.

miir · Post by **miir** » June 10, 2003, 2:15 pm

I never said it did make them immune from discrimination did I?

only people who face discrimination are those expecting to face it

So what if an educated and motivated hindu man is interviewed for a job by an arab-hating Bush lover?
If he doesn't expect discrimination, will he not be discriminated against?

Since you appear to be a white, american, male, I guess it's too much to expect you to be sensitive to racial and gender discrimination issues.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » June 10, 2003, 2:23 pm

miir wrote:
I never said it did make them immune from discrimination did I?

only people who face discrimination are those expecting to face it

So what if an educated and motivated hindu man is interviewed for a job by an arab-hating Bush lover?
If he doesn't expect discrimination, will he not be discriminated against?

Since you appear to be a white, american, male, I guess it's too much to expect you to be sensitive to racial and gender discrimination issues.

No one can bring discrimination against themselves. Hate to state the obvious, but there are plenty of cases of people *not expecting* discrimination that get it. My argument is just that it's not as common as in recent decades, but yes, it still happens. I have faced racism, but luckily not discrimination in the workplace as an adult. To date, no one has called my oldest son the N word yet, and by his age, I was well versed on it's meaning already. Course I grew up in the dirty souf, so, take that for what it's worth. I can only speak from my experiences.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » June 10, 2003, 2:24 pm

miir wrote:
I never said it did make them immune from discrimination did I?

only people who face discrimination are those expecting to face it

So what if an educated and motivated hindu man is interviewed for a job by an arab-hating Bush lover?
If he doesn't expect discrimination, will he not be discriminated against?

Since you appear to be a white, american, male, I guess it's too much to expect you to be sensitive to racial and gender discrimination issues.

Get off your

Miir and Kiss my white middle class

What about the white middle class male that gets

out of a job because HR decides that they need to hire a black pregnant handicapped women to fill the companys quota!!

Racisim goes both ways ( im sure you know what going both ways is like).

Dont any of you get it

Try being a white construction worker in Texas, or better yet a white cab driver in Minneapolis.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » June 10, 2003, 2:31 pm

Cartalas wrote:
miir wrote:
I never said it did make them immune from discrimination did I?

only people who face discrimination are those expecting to face it

So what if an educated and motivated hindu man is interviewed for a job by an arab-hating Bush lover?
If he doesn't expect discrimination, will he not be discriminated against?

Since you appear to be a white, american, male, I guess it's too much to expect you to be sensitive to racial and gender discrimination issues.
Get off your Miir and Kiss my white middle class What about the white middle class male that gets out of a job because HR decides that they need to hire a black pregnant handicapped women to fill the companys quota!!

Racisim goes both ways ( im sure you know what going both ways is like).

Dont any of you get it Try being a white construction worker in Texas, or better yet a white cab driver in Minneapolis.

The contruction worker thing is not discrimination, it's economics. Why should a business pay an American 15/hr to do the job when he can use the same cash on 3 illegals that will do the job just as good? I don't agree with it, but that's the way it is all over the country. You can't fault the illegals, if I were Mexican I'd do the same thing, who WOULD NOT want a better life for their family. Blame your government for border security. This is not a case of discrimination.

miir · Post by **miir** » June 10, 2003, 2:32 pm

I know you like to try and incite arguments, but why the fuck are you bringing up 'Affirmative Action'?

It's essentially reverse racism... and if you actually took the time to read my posts you'd figure out that I am 'anti' racism.

Raistin · Post by **Raistin** » June 10, 2003, 2:54 pm

I know you like to try and incite arguments, but why the fuck are you bringing up 'Affirmative Action'?

It's essentially reverse racism... and if you actually took the time to read my posts you'd figure out that I am 'anti' racism.

Affirmative Action IS racism. It holds check one color or sex,and lets another get ahead with "less" qualifications.

Just pointing out what a lot of people dont relize.FYI

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » June 10, 2003, 2:59 pm

Krimson Klaw wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
miir wrote:
I never said it did make them immune from discrimination did I?

only people who face discrimination are those expecting to face it

So what if an educated and motivated hindu man is interviewed for a job by an arab-hating Bush lover?
If he doesn't expect discrimination, will he not be discriminated against?

Since you appear to be a white, american, male, I guess it's too much to expect you to be sensitive to racial and gender discrimination issues.
Get off your Miir and Kiss my white middle class What about the white middle class male that gets out of a job because HR decides that they need to hire a black pregnant handicapped women to fill the companys quota!!

Racisim goes both ways ( im sure you know what going both ways is like).

Dont any of you get it Try being a white construction worker in Texas, or better yet a white cab driver in Minneapolis.
The contruction worker thing is not discrimination, it's economics. Why should a business pay an American 15/hr to do the job when he can use the same cash on 3 illegals that will do the job just as good? I don't agree with it, but that's the way it is all over the country. You can't fault the illegals, if I were Mexican I'd do the same thing, who WOULD NOT want a better life for their family. Blame your government for border security. This is not a case of discrimination.

No Mr. Klaw I wasnt referring to the hiring practice of unethical companies, I was referring to being on the job the shit my brother takes from minoritys is unbearable, And as far as the Minneapolis cab drivers if you are not Somali you get run out.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » June 10, 2003, 3:04 pm

miir wrote:I know you like to try and incite arguments, but why the fuck are you bringing up 'Affirmative Action'?

It's essentially reverse racism... and if you actually took the time to read my posts you'd figure out that I am 'anti' racism.

I brought it up because you said White american males face no discrimination, To that I say!

miir · Post by **miir** » June 10, 2003, 3:08 pm

you said White american males face no discrimination

Where did I say that?

Ceredwin · Post by **Ceredwin** » June 10, 2003, 3:22 pm

Uncle Tom, shoe shine and Miss Daisy. I can only imagine the furor if a conservative had used such terms. Perhaps this is alright since such was said by one who claims to be for the rights of the undertrodden? I know I would never say such things, though not of the liberal bent.

Could it be that some liberals are more racist as they loudly proclaim others to be? The paternalistic attitudes of the left wing have always been a puzzle to me, wanting to give special treatment to some, as if they could not stand on thier own merit. That seems more insulting to me than asking for all to stand on equal footing.

Shame on you Kyoukan, I disagree with discrimination in any form and vehemently with your racist personal attacks on Krimson Claw.

Back to the original subject, I feel there is no place for religious or sexual demonstrations in a Federal building.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » June 10, 2003, 3:26 pm

miir wrote:
you said White american males face no discrimination
Where did I say that?

"Since you appear to be a white, american, male, I guess it's too much to expect you to be sensitive to racial and gender discrimination issues."

Maybe I read it wrong but it sure looks like that is what you are impliing.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » June 10, 2003, 3:36 pm

Ceredwin, that is all fine and good if people do start out like they do in Everquest with everybody having 5 meals, a shirt, and being good to go.

But people in reality start out very differently. And that will always be the case, as those who start out very well are in that position oftentimes because of the labor of their families for 1 or more generations. But in the case of African Americans, who less than a generation ago were still being directly suppressed by THE GOVERNMENT in terms of the access to various societal resources (many universities would not integrate unless the National Guard showed up...).

30 years is not a long time for institutionalized wholesale discrimination against a segment of a population to disappear.
Especially considering that it occored for hundreds of years. Removing the restrictions does not put those people on equal footing with whites. In most parts of the South public school districts depend on property tax revenues for the majority of their revenue source.

A poor black neighborhood will tend to have a shitty school, while a rich white neighborhood has a good one. Shitty teachers at the shitty school, etc.

So how to meaningfully correct that? For starters the manner in which public schools are funded needs to be changed. I think that my tax dollars should improve my life directly. But i also believe that i am served by increasing the quality of the larger society in which I live.

I have a good friend who is a recruiter for a major corporation, and in some instances chosing a 'diverse' candidate takes precident. But it is never a candidate who is clearly unqualified. It is just a case of well if they are pretty close take the diverse one.

I dont necessarily think that is a good solution but, it is the reality of the situation that it happens from time to time. What does not happen in most major corporations is that minorities are just promoted all over the place to look good.

ramble off =)

miir · Post by **miir** » June 10, 2003, 3:38 pm

Back to the original subject, I feel there is no place for religious or sexual demonstrations in a Federal building.

I'm all for sexual demonstrations.

Maybe I read it wrong but it sure looks like that is what you are impliing.

I meant what I said.... White, middle class males are less likely to be sensitive to racial or sexual discrimination issues.

Companies that actively enforce Gender/Race quotas are definately not the norm. Besides, employment discrimination is just one facet of discrimination.
Society has a long history of race and gender discrimination and white males are rarely on the receiving end.

If Affirmative Action pisses you off that much, maybe you can appreciate how most minority groups have had to cope with discrimination in nearly every aspect of their lives from the moment they are born.

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » June 10, 2003, 3:41 pm

Kooky derailed this thread on her first post when she equated discrimination based on sexual preference as having equal footing with discrimination based on gender or race.

because gay people are discriminated against a lot of the time, so it is nice for them to be able to have days when they can feel good about themselves with people that share their sexual orientation.

it is the same thing with women, and with minorities.

Most of you rose to the bait and she's laughing at you all. Instead of ranting and raving about "de debil wite man" how about some critical thinking?

I can accept the notion discrimination against someone based on their race or gender is an evil and insidious thing, but you can't force me to accept the idea that sexual preference is a matter of similar importance!

Keep it personal, private, and among consenting adults and I just don't care how you get your jollies.

miir · Post by **miir** » June 10, 2003, 3:43 pm

Your statement is based on the fallacy that sexual orientation is a choice.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » June 10, 2003, 3:51 pm

If it wasn't for the whole sucking dick thing, I'd go gay in a second.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » June 10, 2003, 3:54 pm

miir wrote:Your statement is based on the fallacy that sexual orientation is a choice.

Well some say being a child molester is not a choice but we dont see that day celebrated now do we?

Acies · Post by **Acies** » June 10, 2003, 3:56 pm

Cartalas wrote:
miir wrote:Your statement is based on the fallacy that sexual orientation is a choice.
Well some say being a child molester is not a choice but we dont see that day celebrated now do we?

Oh god lets not bring that up again...

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » June 10, 2003, 3:59 pm

miir wrote:Your statement is based on the fallacy that sexual orientation is a choice.

You remind me of that old Pink Floyd bit... "thick as a brick".

Do you have like a switch somewhere where your mommy turns on your brain before she puts on your galoshes and let's you loose on the world?

She forgot to turn it on.

You are too dense to understand the issues in this thread, you should maybe go troll elsewhere.

miir · Post by **miir** » June 10, 2003, 4:03 pm

You remind me of that old Pink Floyd bit... "thick as a brick".

That was Jethro Tull, idiot.

Do you have like a switch somewhere where your mommy turns on your brain before she puts on your galoshes and let's you loose on the world?

oh nos!
Metanis just owned me!

Why do you even bother trying anymore?
Do you think that your pathetic little flames might change people's opinion of you?

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » June 10, 2003, 4:07 pm

miir wrote:
I never said it did make them immune from discrimination did I?

only people who face discrimination are those expecting to face it

So what if an educated and motivated hindu man is interviewed for a job by an arab-hating Bush lover?
If he doesn't expect discrimination, will he not be discriminated against?

Since you appear to be a white, american, male, I guess it's too much to expect you to be sensitive to racial and gender discrimination issues.

I am American and Male, and my heritage counting from my 4 grandparents is American Indian (Chippewa), German/American Indian(Chippewa), Irish/American Indian (Cherokee), and Austrialian. A quick look at percentages indicates that I am in fact 50% Amerind, and 50% mixed European/European decent. My grandmother who is purely Chippewa even lead the Northeast council on Indian Education for over 20 years, and was even named into the congressional record for her tireless efforts on improving knowledge of Indian Heritage and aiding her fellow Amerinds. I worked many years as an unpaid assistant for her while in High School, and the common trend was that those who APPLIED themselves succeeded, those who blamed others for their failures FAILED.

If a well educated and motivated man is interviewed by a arab hating bush lover as you hypothesize he will get the job, since Hindu's are not Arabs. If he goes in expecting that he cannot accomplish acquiring the job for any reason (including discrimination), his chances will be a good deal lower, you cannot succeed by expecting to fail, and your confidence level plays a key part in job interviews and in life. Odds are if he does not get the job, he will look for the next one, and eventually find a position, unless of course he chooses to blame it all on "The Man" and sit around whining about it. Nothing is ever accomplished through whining except failure.

Now Miir you have been wrong twice in 2 sentences, is it really necessary for us to continue?

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » June 10, 2003, 4:08 pm

miir wrote:
You remind me of that old Pink Floyd bit... "thick as a brick".
That was Jethro Tull, idiot.

Do you have like a switch somewhere where your mommy turns on your brain before she puts on your galoshes and let's you loose on the world?
oh nos!
Metanis just owned me!

Why do you even bother trying anymore?
Do you think that your pathetic little flames might change people's opinion of you?

Metanis he is right its Jethro Tull!! Miir is "Just another brick in the Wall" Now that is Pink Floyd

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » June 10, 2003, 4:15 pm

miir wrote:
You remind me of that old Pink Floyd bit... "thick as a brick".
That was Jethro Tull, idiot.

I stand humbly corrected!

Relating Miir to a brick is also too extreme. Bricks don't deserve that bad rep.

miir · Post by **miir** » June 10, 2003, 4:18 pm

I am American and Male, and my heritage counting from my 4 grandparents is American Indian (Chippewa), German/American Indian(Chippewa), Irish/American Indian (Cherokee), and Austrialian. A quick look at percentages indicates that I am in fact 50% Amerind, and 50% mixed European/European decent

And I have seen pictures of you and you appear to be a white male.

Since you appear to be a white, american, male

Hindu's are not Arabs.

Arab is a greographical region.
Hindu is a religion.
The two are not mutually exclusive.
Idiot.

Discrimination, prejudice and racism is based on ignorance.
Discrimination, prejudice and racism is also based on outward appearance.

Do you think someone who is prejudiced against arabs will be able to tell the difference between an Indian or Afghani? Would they know the difference between Sikh and a Muslim?

Now Miir you have been wrong twice in 2 sentences, is it really necessary for us to continue

Keep trying.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » June 10, 2003, 4:18 pm

Kylere wrote:
miir wrote:
I never said it did make them immune from discrimination did I?

only people who face discrimination are those expecting to face it

So what if an educated and motivated hindu man is interviewed for a job by an arab-hating Bush lover?
If he doesn't expect discrimination, will he not be discriminated against?

Since you appear to be a white, american, male, I guess it's too much to expect you to be sensitive to racial and gender discrimination issues.
I am American and Male, and my heritage counting from my 4 grandparents is American Indian (Chippewa), German/American Indian(Chippewa), Irish/American Indian (Cherokee), and Austrialian. A quick look at percentages indicates that I am in fact 50% Amerind, and 50% mixed European/European decent. My grandmother who is purely Chippewa even lead the Northeast council on Indian Education for over 20 years, and was even named into the congressional record for her tireless efforts on improving knowledge of Indian Heritage and aiding her fellow Amerinds. I worked many years as an unpaid assistant for her while in High School, and the common trend was that those who APPLIED themselves succeeded, those who blamed others for their failures FAILED.

If a well educated and motivated man is interviewed by a arab hating bush lover as you hypothesize he will get the job, since Hindu's are not Arabs. If he goes in expecting that he cannot accomplish acquiring the job for any reason (including discrimination), his chances will be a good deal lower, you cannot succeed by expecting to fail, and your confidence level plays a key part in job interviews and in life. Odds are if he does not get the job, he will look for the next one, and eventually find a position, unless of course he chooses to blame it all on "The Man" and sit around whining about it. Nothing is ever accomplished through whining except failure.

Now Miir you have been wrong twice in 2 sentences, is it really necessary for us to continue?

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » June 10, 2003, 5:16 pm

Miir,

One of the biggest divides of the world in terms of people/politics/religion is the Pakistani/Indian border. The people there are all technically part of the indian subcontinent, but the big difference is that India has a majority of Hindu's and Pakistan has a majority of followers of some variant of the preachings of Mohammed.

You find me an Arab Hindu and I will give you a point, the combination is as rare as an intelligent $cientologist.

Oh I appear to be something? I thought you were above judging on appearances, you must yourself be some dumb redneck fuck.

miir · Post by **miir** » June 10, 2003, 5:29 pm

The people there are all technically part of the indian subcontinent, but the big difference is that India has a majority of Hindu's and Pakistan has a majority of followers of some variant of the preachings of Mohammed

You are essentially proving my point.... again.

In my experience, I've noticed that people who are prejudiced against 'brown' people can rarely tell the difference between a Indian, Pakistani, Afghani or Saudi.

Oh I appear to be something? I thought you were above judging on appearances

I think you're finally getting my point.....

Kylere · Post by **Kylere** » June 10, 2003, 5:35 pm

miir wrote:
The people there are all technically part of the indian subcontinent, but the big difference is that India has a majority of Hindu's and Pakistan has a majority of followers of some variant of the preachings of Mohammed
You are essentially proving my point.... again.

In my experience, I've noticed that people who are prejudiced against 'brown' people can rarely tell the difference between a Indian, Pakistani, Afghani or Saudi.

Oh I appear to be something? I thought you were above judging on appearances
I think you're finally getting my point.....

Your point is that people judge on appearances? LOL Then why do you argue with me? Your attempt at making a point was merely an attack on what I had said, not an agreement, partial or full. Of course people judge on appearances, of course their is dsicrimination. But the deal is as I first said... You can overcome these things by your own effort!

There is no discrimination unless you LET IT stop you, so what if it happens once, drive on and accomplish what you seek to accomplish. The only way a racist can beat someone is if they allow them to.

Bocc · Post by **Bocc** » June 10, 2003, 6:17 pm

Kyoukan, I never even read Raistin's posts, so I wouldn't really know whether he faced discrimination at his school or not. My post commented on your extreme overgeneralization of the white middle class male's mindset, and the idea that a middle class white male would never understand anything about discrimination or equal rights.

You responded by saying that if a middle class white male is, by chance, being discriminated against, he could simply leave the place where the discrimination occurs. I had a problem with that idea and simply made a post telling you that.

You ask for a civilized debate, but when I made a valid point you simply threw it aside, and hurled some sarcastic comment at me. But then again, how could I ever have a civilized debate, being the gay hating, racist, and thick headed middle class white American male that I am.

By the way, sorry it took so long to reply to this, it's exam week and I didnt have time to read the boards.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » June 10, 2003, 6:55 pm

There is no discrimination unless you LET IT stop you, so what if it happens once, drive on and accomplish what you seek to accomplish. The only way a racist can beat someone is if they allow them to.
_________________

I think your point would be more clear if you said that discrimination cannot stop you unless you allow it to, rather than say there is no discrimination.

People are discriminated against on a daily basis. Hell, look up the root word discriminate sometime.

If you face discrimination, you have two choices. Accept it and bitch, or find a way to overcome it. I think that's the point Kylere and others have been dancing around in this thread.

Kyou, I am sure you have faced discrimination. There are enough assholes in this world who still believe women should be subordinate to men to virtually guarantee it. Add in your physical stature and your relationship and it becomes a virtual certainty.

So what did you do? Did you give up and whine, or did you find a way to overcome it?

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » June 10, 2003, 6:57 pm

There is no discrimination unless you LET IT stop you

You are the perpetual moron.

Those that discriminate should be held accountable for their actions. That is the only way to quash discrimination. If every person who was discriminated against simply "moved on" without addressing the problem, then blacks would STILL be riding in the back of the bus.

You propose that answer to discrimination is to "ignore it." And you think it will just go away? How deluded can you be?

Maybe we should just "move on" when we get robbed or when someone murders our loved ones. Injustice is injustice. It is black & white for a reason: to prevent bigots from "interpreting" or acting under the law according to their own personal agendas.

It amazes me when people are so quick to say what others should & shouldn't do or say when it comes to expressing their culture, lifestyle, or religion. Why should you care if someone wants to smoke a joint in the privacy of their own home, why should you care if a group of homosexuals want to have a gathering, why should you care when it doesn't affect you? Live your own fucking life and let others live theirs. People like Metanis are just nosy old biddies who have nothing rewarding going on in their lives, so they have to try and make everyone as miserable as they are.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » June 10, 2003, 7:34 pm

Why should you care if someone wants to smoke a joint in the privacy of their own home,

Umm maybe because its illegal and its not the act of smoking pot in your home that concerns people, Its the fact that said person is supporting crime by buying said illegal drug. Until it is made legal im sure people will have a problem with it.

It amazes me when people are so quick to say what others should & shouldn't do or say when it comes to expressing their culture, lifestyle, or religion

Just like you are now?

why should you care if a group of homosexuals want to have a gathering, why should you care when it doesn't affect you?

Maybe it does effect the person complaining, maybe that person works at the DOJ and has strong religous beliefs against homosexuals, Who are you to ram it down there throats and force them to view something they find wrong. It is a place of employment unless the DOJ lets the offended ones go home then they should not have the gathering.

People like Metanis are just nosy old biddies who have nothing rewarding going on in their lives, so they have to try and make everyone as miserable as they are.

You know what I know Metanis in real life and he has always been a fun loving stand up guy who obeys the laws and would give you the shirt off his back to help you as far as rewarding Im sure he has accomplished more in his lifetime then you care to know but hell your biased because of a fucking message board. As I see it you and your fellow liberials are the downers here.

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » June 10, 2003, 7:53 pm

Lalanae wrote:People like Metanis are just nosy old biddies who have nothing rewarding going on in their lives, so they have to try and make everyone as miserable as they are.

Nosy? I have tried to make my position very clear that I don't care what these people do in privacy - their insistence to make a spectacle is what I deplore.

The very fact they believe they must make a spectacle is proof they secretly understand the questionable morality of their practices.

Just as your insistence to call everyone a "moron" truly indicates you have no skill and no intelligence of your own. If Kooky jumped off a bridge would you?

Adelrune Argenti · Post by **Adelrune Argenti** » June 10, 2003, 7:58 pm

masteen wrote:If it wasn't for the whole sucking dick thing, I'd go gay in a second.

Dude, you made me snort a Junior Mint up my nose from laughing at this. Stop it. Really good one though.

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » June 10, 2003, 8:29 pm

Lalanae wrote:You propose that answer to discrimination is to "ignore it." And you think it will just go away? How deluded can you be?

Where did he say ignore it? He said don't let it stop you. There is a difference in this situation between the two statements.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » June 10, 2003, 9:05 pm

Vetiria wrote:
Lalanae wrote:You propose that answer to discrimination is to "ignore it." And you think it will just go away? How deluded can you be?
Where did he say ignore it? He said don't let it stop you. There is a difference in this situation between the two statements.

She only reads what she is told or wants.

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » June 10, 2003, 9:23 pm

...Raistin, I went to school in orlando public and private, both of them have a majority of white protistants, not maybe a vast majority but a significant one...south florida though there is a ton of jews, they might count for like 30-40% of the population in places like boca

I come from a middle-upperclass family with spanish parents (from spain), i dont know if thats considered hispanic or not since the majority of the people in spain are white with maybe the same complextion and features as itallians,greeks, southern french etc,but then again a lot of americans are extreamlly uncultured and think spain is a part of mexico... not a latin american white/native american mixture, yet ive been referred to as hispanic and white and it doesnt really bother me either way

Another discrimination in the US, that i find is car insurance, being a 20 year old male you pay more insurance then a 16 year old femail, it goes by statistics, but by STATISTICS arabs or african americans would not be able to purchase firearms, etc

Raistin · Post by **Raistin** » June 11, 2003, 12:09 am

What school?Btw, I never said all schools are like that.Id get in to it more, but I think I made my points on the MAIN topic of this thread.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » June 11, 2003, 12:44 am

Bocc wrote:Kyoukan, I never even read Raistin's posts, so I wouldn't really know whether he faced discrimination at his school or not. My post commented on your extreme overgeneralization of the white middle class male's mindset, and the idea that a middle class white male would never understand anything about discrimination or equal rights.

Yes that was basically my only point. And I am being proven correct time and time again by all the dumbass white males on this thread spouting "HURR HURR THERE IS NO DISCRIMINATION AND YOU CAN DO WHATEVER YOU WANT IF YOU JUST WORK REALLY HARD."

White males will never understand what it is truly like to be discriminated against because they are the social and economic dominant class on the continent.

If saying that makes me a whiner or a racist or a militant man-hating lesbian or whatever other category you idiots want to pigeonhole me into, well I will try not to lose very much fucking sleep over it.

Mplor · Post by **Mplor** » June 11, 2003, 12:45 am

Voronwë wrote:Ceredwin, that is all fine and good if people do start out like they do in Everquest with everybody having 5 meals, a shirt, and being good to go.

But people in reality start out very differently. And that will always be the case, as those who start out very well are in that position oftentimes because of the labor of their families for 1 or more generations. But in the case of African Americans, who less than a generation ago were still being directly suppressed by THE GOVERNMENT in terms of the access to various societal resources (many universities would not integrate unless the National Guard showed up...).

30 years is not a long time for institutionalized wholesale discrimination against a segment of a population to disappear. Especially considering that it occored for hundreds of years. Removing the restrictions does not put those people on equal footing with whites. In most parts of the South public school districts depend on property tax revenues for the majority of their revenue source.

A poor black neighborhood will tend to have a shitty school, while a rich white neighborhood has a good one. Shitty teachers at the shitty school, etc.

It's a shame your post has been overlooked, Voro. It's dead on.

For example, a college education is widely touted as the best way to get ahead in this economy. At the same time, a child is far, far less likely to earn a four-year degree if neither of his parents did. Studies attribute this to many reasons including: The lack of a role model, someone who has charted the course before you, and the fact that your peers are probably getting jobs instead of going to college.

And then there's the cost. If neither of your parents went to college, yours is more likely to be a lower-income family. Financial aid is mainly available as student loans which, interest-subsidized or not, still must be repaid. It's hardly surprising then that a kid from a $25,000/yr household balks when he learns that in 2003 the average college senior with student loans graduated with $19,000 in debt. (It's my business to know this, btw).

Some may say, "It's not society's fault that Jimmy's dad and his gramps didn't go to college." In the case of many (not all) African Americans, however, it is clearly society's fault that there is little tradition of higher education. Until less than two generations ago, the government actively hindered it.

You see, there's much more to racism than being pulled over for Driving While Black. Practices of previous generations have a direct impact on today. A baby born tonight still has a statistically better chance of success if she's white than if she's black.

Is this my fault? No, not directly. But it is America's fault, and I am an American. I believe in government by and for the people, and that, just as we enjoy the remarkable fruits of our forefather's industry, we also bear the responsibility to ensure that their wrongs are set right. It's the American thing to do, so do it with a smile.

/soapbox

Mippy

Kriista · Post by **Kriista** » June 11, 2003, 2:36 am

Those that discriminate should be held accountable for their actions. That is the only way to quash discrimination. If every person who was discriminated against simply "moved on" without addressing the problem, then blacks would STILL be riding in the back of the bus.

ok, this i disagree with, theres a difference between a government organization discriminating, and individuals discriminating
the major difference being that one is illegal, while the other isnt/shouldnt be

for example, if i own a business, privately, no gov. funding involved at all, and i choose to not allow hispanics in, thats my perogative(or should be), since its my business.... literally

this is a current trend in popular thought/legislation hate/discrimination are some sort of evil, which contains inherant contradictions, like, if were supposed to 'embrace' diversity, shouldnt that also include people who think differently than we do?(ie. disagree)

nothing in this country could be more american, than a nazi spouting an anti-jew/black rhetoric

but if/when that happens, these people are persecuted on the basis of their opinions/thoughts or actions that are based on their own property, instead of being celebrated for 'embracing' their diversity so fully

this also extends into hate-crime legislation, what i think to be a truly frightening turn, as your being penalized for..... your thoughts, not your actions

hate is not a crime, a crime is a crime, and should be dealt with accordingly, there are different degrees of crimes, which are more to seperate different aggrivation of crimes, but thats grossly different that 'hate' crime legislation, in which your opinions come into question

is commiting a premeditated murder on someone chosen at random any different from commiting a premeditated murder on someone chosen via a race/beliefsystem/sexual preference?
the premeditated murder is the terrible, and illegal part of the crime

i just find it funny that most people that try to be very liberal, and accept other lifetyles/races draw the line when it comes to something they disagree with

how would you feel about a nazi/white pride parade?, or a million-man masoginist march?

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » June 11, 2003, 2:43 am

because anti-hate legislation prevents you from running your own business and not allowing certain people into it. if you don't like it then don't run a business.

every country has laws. saying you should be allowed to hang a no niggers sign on the door of your restaurant is no different breaking any other law. most laws are built around that society's moral values. and equality is supposed to be one of hte most cherished of the usa's moral values, so laws are implemented to enforce them.

Kriista · Post by **Kriista** » June 11, 2003, 2:48 am

every country has laws. saying you should be allowed to hang a no niggers sign on the door of your restaurant is no different breaking any other law. most laws are built around that society's moral values. and equality is supposed to be one of hte most cherished of the usa's moral values, so laws are implemented to enforce them.

like blacks not being able to sit at the front of the bus?
or women not being able to vote?

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » June 11, 2003, 6:25 am

how would you feel about a nazi/white pride parade?, or a million-man masoginist march?

I would be against any such thing as these are clearly hate-promoting organizations.