The Final Hockey Thread of the 2002-2003 Season?

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » June 9, 2003, 3:38 pm

OK first off, if you don't give a fuck about hockey, then don't bother posting. Go drool over some 1945 Yankee stats or the NFL draft or whatever.

Now for those who DO care, what do you think is going to happen? Who will win tonight? What have you thought of the Finals as a whole?

To be honest I have found the hockey more exciting and fun to watch than I had feared when we found out who the finalist were. The first 2 games were snoozers but since then Anaheim has woke up and got involved in the series. We've seen a lot more defensive mistakes leading to good scoring chances than we saw during the other rounds by these teams and the goaltending continues to be outstanding for the most part. Its still not the matchup I would choose, if I had my way, but it has been decent.

As for tonight? I think the Devils will win, but I'll be cheering for the Ducks

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » June 9, 2003, 3:45 pm

I hope the Ducks win

I dont like them, Disney, or any of their players. But what i do like about them is they aren't the New Jersey Devils.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » June 9, 2003, 3:54 pm

Voronwë wrote:I hope the Ducks win

I dont like them, Disney, or any of their players. But what i do like about them is they aren't the New Jersey Devils.

Amen, brother.

Post by **Xouqoa** » June 9, 2003, 4:10 pm

Devils have been so good at home, I dunno if the Ducks can beat them there or not. Hopefully it'll be a really good game, though. Whoever wins it, it will be well earned. (especially if Anaheim wins)

Damiarch · Post by **Damiarch** » June 9, 2003, 4:14 pm

I dont like them, Disney, or any of their players. But what i do like about them is they aren't the New Jersey Devils.

While I agree with this statement, I am indifferent to who the winner is. Honestly, I think It'll be New Jersey because of the home thing. But We'll see.

Wild Forever!!

We'll be back next year!!!

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » June 9, 2003, 4:22 pm

Great series with some awsome games. I'm hoping for the Ducks to finish off the Cinderella story and give Disney incentive to finally make another Mighty Ducks sequel!

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » June 9, 2003, 4:36 pm

With Emilio Esteves?

Actually I am pulling for NJ since I live in the area.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » June 9, 2003, 5:02 pm

Well, I am a Flyers fan, but I hope the Ducks pull it off tonight, despite their crappy owner and shitty name.

Trek · Post by **Trek** » June 9, 2003, 6:31 pm

Im still holding out for the Kings, I think if they play a physical game they can pull it out!

Revs · Post by **Revs** » June 9, 2003, 6:54 pm

So much for Devils in 6

I hope they make this a night to remember (in a good way!)...

Adelrune Argenti · Post by **Adelrune Argenti** » June 9, 2003, 6:56 pm

Nice avatar, Damiarch. Dream Theater owns.

Lynks · Post by **Lynks** » June 9, 2003, 7:22 pm

No clue on whos going to win...both teams played well this season. I think it's safe to say though that wich ever team wins, the Conn Smythe will go to the goalie.

And just as a note, this is only the 12th time in playoff history that it goes to game 7.

Arsecn · Post by **Arsecn** » June 9, 2003, 7:45 pm

Go Ducks!

Amazing that after getting the shit knocked out of him by Stevens last game, Kariya actually came back to score a goal as well as have 2 assists. I hope it's a good game tonight... no blowouts!

Damiarch · Post by **Damiarch** » June 9, 2003, 8:16 pm

Adelrune Argenti wrote:Nice avatar, Damiarch. Dream Theater owns.

Thank you hehe, they do indeed own.

noel · Post by **noel** » June 9, 2003, 9:57 pm

Go Ducks!

masteen · Post by **masteen** » June 9, 2003, 10:07 pm

If the Ducks win, I think the monkey should replace Jim Rome.

noel · Post by **noel** » June 9, 2003, 10:24 pm

masteen wrote:If the Ducks win, I think the monkey should replace Jim Rome.

BLASPHEMY!

Rome is god!

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » June 9, 2003, 10:31 pm

I like Rome's take on a few things, but he is like the 'knowledgeable kid' in school, who knew lots about sports but really got beat up too much to seriously compete on any team...his show is his self-redemption.

This psychoanalysis brought to you by: Satan.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » June 9, 2003, 10:33 pm

Fuck, the Devils just scored 2 real fast.

noel · Post by **noel** » June 9, 2003, 10:59 pm

Canelek wrote:I like Rome's take on a few things, but he is like the 'knowledgeable kid' in school, who knew lots about sports but really got beat up too much to seriously compete on any team...his show is his self-redemption.

This psychoanalysis brought to you by: Satan.

Yeah, he's not an athlete, he's a commentator. Understand the difference? That means he's not required to compete on any team.

To be successful all he need do is get good athletes, and interview them well. He does that better than most anyone.

Vaemas · Post by **Vaemas** » June 9, 2003, 11:05 pm

Well, I was going to post earlier that Devils by 3...of course, that's easy to say now since they're already up by 2...but we'll see! Go Devils!

Post by **Xouqoa** » June 9, 2003, 11:38 pm

Well, Devils win the cup.. but I hope Giguiere will at least win the Conn Smythe... Ducks most likely would not have been there in a game 7 situation in the Cup finals without him. (Though Brodeur did have 3 shut outs in the finals... tough call.)

Revs · Post by **Revs** » June 9, 2003, 11:42 pm

I hope they make this a night to remember (in a good way!)...

Indeed they did

Ebumar · Post by **Ebumar** » June 9, 2003, 11:43 pm

Ducks are down by 3 right now.

noel · Post by **noel** » June 9, 2003, 11:50 pm

Grats Jersey.

Too bad it wasn't more of a game, but props are given where props are due. The Duck's inability to win away, and the Devils excellent job of protecting their home ice is what won the cup.

Great job.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » June 10, 2003, 12:03 am

Aranuil wrote:
Canelek wrote:I like Rome's take on a few things, but he is like the 'knowledgeable kid' in school, who knew lots about sports but really got beat up too much to seriously compete on any team...his show is his self-redemption.

This psychoanalysis brought to you by: Satan.
Yeah, he's not an athlete, he's a commentator. Understand the difference? That means he's not required to compete on any team.

To be successful all he need do is get good athletes, and interview them well. He does that better than most anyone.

Now gimme mah interview you big dirty man you!

miir · Post by **miir** » June 10, 2003, 10:57 am

props are given where props are due

Props for playing the trap?
Give me a fucking break.
Teams like Jersey are killing the NHL.

It's pretty depressing that traditionally entertaining teams will have to resort to the fucking trap if they want any chance of winning the Stanley Cup. It's pathetic when a team packed with stars can be neutralized by bangers who only know how to clog up the neutral zone.
We would never have seen superstars like Gretzky, Lemiuex or Messier in the past 20 years if teams had been playing the trap.

There is all sorts of incredible talent coming up from the farm teams but they all seem to bust in the NHL because they have no room to play. Going through the neutral zone is like walking through syrup with 2 burly men on your back.

Low talent, low salary, defensive minded bangers who like to sit the neutral zone have a better chance of being a star in today's NHL.

Who the fuck needs talent when you can be consistently successful and win the championship with only a modicum of it?

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » June 10, 2003, 11:21 am

I have to agree with Miir. I miss the eighties and early nineties hockey. Open ice hits, fast skating, and lots of shots on net with a good balance of break aways.

Didn't they try and fix this type of "defense" game in the NBA by not allowing zone defense? Would be interesting if the league found another way to call the Jersey/Ottowa trap illegal...

As for the finals, they were better than recent years, that's for sure. But the one thing that will stick in my mind is all the booing that occured during the award of the Conn Smythe to Giguere...I found it lacking and downright wrong to hockey that a man who played as good as Giguere did, gets boo'ed by self proclaimed "Hockey Fans" when he won the award he so deserved.

edit: I forgot to mention...even Detroit fans would have cheered, *after* winning the cup of course, for the playoff MVP.

Damiarch · Post by **Damiarch** » June 10, 2003, 12:16 pm

Yeah it's shitty, but they're from Jersey, so what do you expect?

Post by **Xouqoa** » June 10, 2003, 12:38 pm

Yeah, the Devils fans booing Giguere was pretty classless. I understand wanting someone from your team to win the MVP trophy, but he totally deserved it. The only other player that was even close in the voting had to have been Brodeur, but I don't think he made as big an impact on his team as Giguere did. I'm really glad he got the award.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » June 10, 2003, 12:58 pm

But the one thing that will stick in my mind is all the booing that occured during the award of the Conn Smythe to Giguere...I found it lacking and downright wrong to hockey that a man who played as good as Giguere did, gets boo'ed by self proclaimed "Hockey Fans" when he won the award he so deserved.

I was shocked by this. Are these "fans" that piss poor winners that they refuse to be gracious in victory, to an opponent that did take them to the wall?

As for the trap, if they could do it without the extra holding, hooking and interference, I would have no issues with it: it would be sound defensive hockey. The issue is more the NHL;s refusal to call obstruction more than "the Trap". The fear of calling too many penalties has to be dealt with. One thing I like about the trap is that it DOES require a complete team buy in and cooperation to make it effect.

In the end the Devils won. They played their system to perfection and it worked better than the Ducks' did. Grats to them.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » June 10, 2003, 12:58 pm

Kluden wrote:Didn't they try and fix this type of "defense" game in the NBA by not allowing zone defense? Would be interesting if the league found another way to call the Jersey/Ottowa trap illegal...

Be careful what you wish for. The NBA made the zone illegal, and league scoring went down over 30 ppg. Basically, all hockey needs to do is start calling the defenders for holding or hooking more vigorously, and the trap would be much less effective.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » June 10, 2003, 1:04 pm

Xouqoa wrote:Yeah, the Devils fans booing Giguere was pretty classless. I understand wanting someone from your team to win the MVP trophy, but he totally deserved it. The only other player that was even close in the voting had to have been Brodeur, but I don't think he made as big an impact on his team as Giguere did. I'm really glad he got the award.

of course it was classless, we are talking about NJ Devils fans

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » June 10, 2003, 1:06 pm

Oh...please don't misinterpret, I by no means want the league to make a certain style of play "illegal". That's not fair to the person who was smart enought to find a game plan that works for the team. I am just "wishing" for what Wulf has said...just call them as you see them...don't just accept what happens in the neutral zone as "hockey".

masteen · Post by **masteen** » June 10, 2003, 1:14 pm

Absolutely Klu. A few more whistles early next season would curtail a lot of the neutral zone friskiness we had to put up with through this post-season.

miir · Post by **miir** » June 10, 2003, 1:16 pm

. One thing I like about the trap is that it DOES require a complete team buy in and cooperation to make it effect.

But it requires no real skill or talent.

As for the trap, if they could do it without the extra holding, hooking and interference, I would have no issues with it: it would be sound defensive hockey.

Clutching/grabbing and hooking are core elements of the trap.
The trap's sole purpose is to impede the attacking players progress through the neutral zone. This is achieved by placing 4-5 players between the blue lines.

The neutral zone is so packed with players it's difficult to move the puck through and the usual result is a dump-in. *yawn*
You don't see teams like NJ roar in with aggressive, tenacious forechecking... trying to force turnovers. They just sit patiently in their trap waiting for the other team to turn the puck over.

It's passive, boring hockey.

If they put in a rule limiting the number of defending players in the neutral zone, they could easily kill the trap.

If they removed the center line, allowing longer outlet passes, you'd see more odd man rushes and teams who play the trap would be more apt to get burned... The defensemen would have to play the entire ice surface for fear of the 'icing-line to blue-line' passes.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » June 10, 2003, 1:23 pm

miir wrote:If they removed the center line, allowing longer outlet passes, you'd see more odd man rushes and teams who play the trap would be more apt to get burned... The defensemen would have to play the entire ice surface for fear of the 'icing-line to blue-line' passes.

That would fucking own.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » June 10, 2003, 1:24 pm

Voronwë wrote:
Xouqoa wrote:Yeah, the Devils fans booing Giguere was pretty classless. I understand wanting someone from your team to win the MVP trophy, but he totally deserved it. The only other player that was even close in the voting had to have been Brodeur, but I don't think he made as big an impact on his team as Giguere did. I'm really glad he got the award.
of course it was classless, we are talking about NJ Devils fans

Jay wrote:I'm the most classful motherfucker you'll ever meet bitch! Jersey REPRESENT!!

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » June 10, 2003, 1:24 pm

I would definitely like to see the two-line pass rule removed...cherry picking can be an exciting addition to the game...you won't have to wait for that guy just getting out of the penalty box anymore

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » June 10, 2003, 1:32 pm

Miir, I see where your position is but if you are gonna quote me, understand what I am saying:

IF the trap could be done without the hooking/holding/etc. then it would not be the trap as we know it. It would require speed and anticipation to make it a sucessful strategy, although it coud be offset somewhat by positional play.

Thus I believe the answer is more in enforcement of existing rules (i.e. penalize the fuck out of em for obstructions in the neutral zone). Those are the same rules Gretzky and Lemieux re-wrote the record books with, so if the talented kids are out there, they should be able to do the same, if their talent level is close.

In the end, I do blame expansion for this: there have been too many teams and the talent pool is diluted to the point that we teams like New Jersey, Florida, Carolina and Minnesota have found this is the easiest way to compete.

Damiarch · Post by **Damiarch** » June 10, 2003, 1:38 pm

I blame Norm Green for taking the Stars from us, so we had to create another expansion team.

miir · Post by **miir** » June 10, 2003, 1:47 pm

In the end, I do blame expansion for this: there have been too many teams and the talent pool is diluted to the point that we teams like New Jersey, Florida, Carolina and Minnesota have found this is the easiest way to compete.

And teams loaded with talent like the Canucks (size, speed and grit) get kicked around in the playoffs by the trap.

What does it say about the NHL when a DEFENSEMAN leads playoff scoring?

Vaemas · Post by **Vaemas** » June 10, 2003, 4:11 pm

Oooooh, I like it Miir...interesting idea! And yeah, Jersey fans from Jersey are classless fucks. Got to attend a game back in March and the assholes were booing during the Canadian national anthem. That's just really fuckin' wrong.

Truant · Post by **Truant** » June 10, 2003, 4:48 pm

I was really disappointed to hear the fans boo Giguiere.

As for the trap, and things like that. Buccigross wrote an article a week or so ago about his ideas for changes to the NHL for the betterment of the sport, etc. Ways to eliminate the trap and whatnot. Agree or not, it's an interesting read.