Liberation or Occupation?

[miir]

This could get ugly.

The entire Iraqi people is a time bomb that will blow up in the Americans' face if they don't end their occupation. We refuse to deal with the occupation


The Iraqi people did not fight the Americans during the war, only Saddam's people did. But if the people decide to fight them now, they are in big trouble

All of us will become suicide bombers, I will turn my six daughters into bombs to kill the Americans

We thank the coalition for liberating Iraq...but are we occupied or liberated? I swear to God, if this is occupation, all our children, women and men, young and old, will die rather than accept occupation

[Forthe]

Putting an US written (written by US appointees) Iraqi Constitution in place before free elections is a fine example of liberation.

[Sylvus]

Okay, since I know where both of you stood on the war to begin with, do you think we should just completely pull out of there right now and abandon Iraq? I certainly don't believe that we should occupy Iraq, but I thought that there were certain things we needed to stabilize before we could hand the reigns back over, so to speak.

Like they were reporting on the news late last week that power was almost completely restored to where it was before the war began, I know that Coalition forces are still patrolling certain areas for the sake of security, etc. Do you think that doing those things are necessary or should we GTFO, completely, today?

[Ashur]

Criticized by Iraqis both for failure to contain criminal activity of Iraqi citizens and of being an occuping force instead of a liberator. Got to the Catch-22!

[kyoukan]

Do you think the US is being criticized for failing to protect Iraqis from criminal activity because it was the US that overthrew the government and fucked the country's infrastructure, including law enforcement?

[miir]

Is that the 'domino effect' Kyou?

[Cartalas]

Do you think the US is being criticized for failing to protect Iraqis from criminal activity because it was the US that overthrew the government and fucked the country's infrastructure, including law enforcement?

And that law enforcement infrastructure was the most unbiased I have ever seen.

The way I look at it is the U.S is Damned if they stay and Damned if they leave.


If they stay they have to deal with people saying they are occupping Iraq.

If they leave they have to deal with those same people whining about leaving Iraq in shambles.


"Tribal Chieftan, Sheikh Fsal al-Kaoud wrote:
We thank the coalition for liberating Iraq...but are we occupied or liberated? I swear to God, if this is occupation, all our children, women and men, young and old, will die rather than accept occupation"


They should just get this in writting and leave.

[Wulfran]

The way I look at it is the U.S is Damned if they stay and Damned if they leave.


If they stay they have to deal with people saying they are occupping Iraq.

If they leave they have to deal with those same people whining about leaving Iraq in shambles.

Before the invasion, the US gov't should have had a plan in place to deal with the civilian administration and transfer of power back to the Iraqi people (assuming of course that they ARE planning on letting the Iraqis rule themselves). If not, the "war" should not have been started until such a plan was created.

As much as I hate the UN for all the undermining and back room deals that go on, maybe the US should pull out. Let the UN act as peacekeepers/police until Iraq can form their own government and re-establish their own agencies again. Of course that would mean that the US gov't wouldn't get to decide who gets all the rebuilding contracts... but I guess if they felt they were getting left out they could always invade again...

[Fairweather Pure]

The way I look at it is the U.S is Damned if they stay and Damned if they leave.

We were screwed as soon as we chose to invade. It's all a matter of time from here on out.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

Spending 6 months to a year rebuilding what we destroyed is not an occupation. There was a plan set down before this "war" took place to rebuild the place. I have friends that are in engineer companies that were called up and would be spending a year over there rebuilding. They knew their assignment for this when the first bombs dropped.

The worst thing that could happen to the Iraqi people is for them to grow impatient and do something stupid. The only type of war the US could not win is a guerilla type war. If Iraqis in general went to war and it became a free fire zone on the Iraqi people , it would be a devastating affair for them.

But then if it were up to me, I would have pulled every foreign interest out of that region and let them wipe each other out in the name of Allah an dnever put a dime of aid to any of them. They need to sell their damn oil just as much as we need to buy it. Alternative sources are getting closer every day. You think that region is unstable now? Just wait until no one is buying their oil and they become desperate. Then that region having nuclear or other WMD will be a whole lot of fun.

[Raistin]

You mean like North Korea?!


Also members of the old Iraq military bitching about not being paid and threating to do suicide attacks.......... . Is it just me or does anyone else find this funny.


If the US were invaded, I sure in the hell wouldnt expect the invading country to pay me my wages during the war,and after the US military was dismantled.

[miir]

Spending 6 months to a year rebuilding what we destroyed is not an occupation

By the look of it, it's not going to be 6-12 months.
The most substantial thing the american invasion destroyed was the infrastructure and government.

Anyone with even the slightest knowledge of the middle east would know that imposing a 'US Approved' government on the Iraqi people would not be accepted... nor would an extended military pressence in the area.

What they are now forced to deal with is a no-win/catch22 situation.
I'm surprised that noone in the Bush administration could have forseen this problem.



I don't think the Iraqis are upset with the building of the roads, water purification plants and other vital pieces of their economic infracstructure... it's the military pressence that is still in the region which makes them uncomfortable. Decades of US military pressence in Saudi Arabia has played a part in creating generations of American hating muslims.

Shouldn't they be concerned that thier actions in Iraq may cause a similar reaction?

Alternative sources are getting closer every day. You think that region is unstable now? Just wait until no one is buying their oil and they become desperate

Maybe Bush is trying to start a domino effect with the annexing of Iraq.

[Kluden]

For that alternative fuel thing, you would require parties in office that are not backed by oil companies and car manufacturers....oh wait....that's every party that has a chance to win an election....

[Forthe]

I wasn't bitching about them providing security, rebuilding, etc.

My point was regards to the current US plan:
1) Appoint some Iraqi puppets to a council
2) Said puppets are to draw up an Iraqi Constitution BEFORE democratic elections.

[masteen]

A lot of the military presence is there protecting the very people and machines that are/will be rebuilding Iraq. Does anyone think that it would be a good idea to send a billion dollars in capital assets to the Mid-East and leave them unguarded?

[Krimson Klaw]

Since the bombs stopped dropping, most Americans are apathetic about Iraq right now. Bush had better put more emphasis on working with the leaders and clerics of Iraq right now, and less emphasis on setting up a puppet regime. You freed the Iraqi people, now let them run their country, anything less and you may as well call it Ira-xas, the 51st state of the union.

[Metanis]

This could get ugly.

All of us will become suicide bombers, I will turn my six daughters into bombs to kill the Americans

PS... I didn't read the whole thread, I just thought this line was hilarious. Ya know... what if the 6 daughters just kinda like don't wanna be bombs when they grow up? Allah forbid this fine example of an Iraqi man just might not be sensitive to women's issues?

Dwell on the mindset that allows a man to believe his daughters are his personal property and can be used to make good bombs....

...the sucker must have grown up in Texas!!! (Long Live Texas!)


Kooky, is your daddy Iraqi by any chance?

[kyoukan]

Maybe, but at least he wasn't a farm animal, which is what I strongly suspect is wrong with you.

[Krimson Klaw]

This could get ugly.

All of us will become suicide bombers, I will turn my six daughters into bombs to kill the Americans

PS... I didn't read the whole thread, I just thought this line was hilarious. Ya know... what if the 6 daughters just kinda like don't wanna be bombs when they grow up? Allah forbid this fine example of an Iraqi man just might not be sensitive to women's issues?

Dwell on the mindset that allows a man to believe his daughters are his personal property and can be used to make good bombs....

...the sucker must have grown up in Texas!!! (Long Live Texas!)


Kooky, is your daddy Iraqi by any chance?

You do know that there are many many other cultures and beliefs on the globe besides western, right? You know, in some places, marriages are arranged! I'm not kidding! Boggles your mind, does it not?

[Metanis]

You do know that there are many many other cultures and beliefs on the globe besides western, right? You know, in some places, marriages are arranged! I'm not kidding! Boggles your mind, does it not?

Tell me more. I'm boggled. Along the way tell me why I'm not allowed to make value judgements regarding the merits of these other cultures and beliefs.

[Wulfran]

Maybe, but at least he wasn't a farm animal, which is what I strongly suspect is wrong with you.

his avatar says he's from "central Wisconsin"... maybe his pappy was a cheese block?

Along the way tell me why I'm not allowed to make value judgements regarding the merits of these other cultures and beliefs.

Because you're not intelligent enough to evaluate them in any rational manner on your own. Now STFU and go back to cow tipping or whatever you do out there.

[Raistin]

Time to Tip them over Pa!

Ok Billybob me and Ma be rite dar




Shhhhh Pa you wanna wake it!





HEHHEH HOAOAHAHAHA WE DID IT PA!!!



Omg im bored

[Kelgar]

[Cartalas]

So everyone can get involved.

http://www.nwlink.com/~timelvis/cowtip2.html

[Xyun]

I think an easy way to solve this problem is to pull out the troops and drop a couple of nukes on say Baghdad and Tikrit. Then the rest of those fucking sand niggers will shut the fuck up or they'll get bombed too. Meanwhile, we should use our troops to invade Syria and Iran. Thank you God for being on our side on this one. HOORAY!!!

[Raistin]

Finally your with us! No bombs on you Xyun!

[Ooga[foh]]

I think we should all just hug

[Xaem]

Bomb Canada!!!!!!!!111!!1111!!!1!!1!1!!