Spoiler Thread!

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » May 21, 2003, 2:57 pm

Dark City sucked.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 21, 2003, 3:08 pm

Zamtuk wrote:Dark City sucked.

true dat.

just because Smith adapted to combat humans doesnt mean the machines who depend on the humans for sustenance did.

it is entirely possible Smith is nothing more than a janitor/maintenance tool from the viewpoint of 'the machines' whoever they are.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » May 21, 2003, 3:13 pm

I liked Dark City.

13th Floor also had the same premise of the Matrix.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » May 21, 2003, 3:20 pm

13th floor also came out after the Matrix, actually within weeks of it, so one can't be accredited with stealing from the other one.

Ennia · Post by **Ennia** » May 21, 2003, 3:21 pm

Leeloo is the fifth element

and Drol wasted such a chance to make some 20+ VV's?

Burke · Post by **Burke** » May 21, 2003, 3:53 pm

Carl Childers kills Doyle Hargraves with a lawnmower blade and gets sent back to the Nervous Hosbiddle.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » May 21, 2003, 4:13 pm

Voronwë wrote:
masteen wrote:I think what they were saying is that a "Neo" is unavoidable due to the inherant instability of plugging our analog minds into a digital creation. Some human brains will always eventually detect the falsness of the Matrix, and a rebellion will ensue. The whole Zion project is designed to allow the machines to control the instability and ensure their survival.
sure Neo is unavoidable, but a genetic clone to Keanu Reeves is unavoidable 6 times?

that is what i'm saying doesnt make sense.

all the people genetically identical who keep popping up and then doing the exact same thing?

all the Architect would have to do would be to genetically filter new babies as they are plugged in to the machinery (cause i assume they are cloned etc)

i find it hard to believe the machines would not function properly without certain personality types plugged into the matrix. the machines dont need the matrix, the humans do. ALl they need out of the humans is their biolectricity.

I'm thinking that they keep the genetic record of Neo because they know that he and his will become the catalyst for the rebellion, rather than just having random_coppertop_25345 become that catalyst.

In other words, since it's unavoidable, the machines allow the same genetic patterns to replicate over and over again because if not these identified and fairly predictable ones, then other, unknown and possibly more lethal, ones would emerge.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 21, 2003, 4:14 pm

that one sounds pretty good

masteen · Post by **masteen** » May 21, 2003, 4:17 pm

As a fanboy, I can rationalize anything.

Drolgin Steingrinder · Post by **Drolgin Steingrinder** » May 21, 2003, 4:18 pm

Ennia, Style over VV's. Feel free to donate, though!

Etasi · Post by **Etasi** » May 21, 2003, 5:20 pm

Voronwe, you're making this too complicated.

Where did you get that each of the Ones are genetically identical? They never said that the events in the matrix are the exact same in every iteration. All they said was that, due to the way the human mind works, there will always be those whose minds cannot function in the matrix and must be freed. Not freeing them would cause the system to crash, so they allowed some humans to be free and build Zion.

However, there will always be that one person out there whose mind cannot accept the matrix, and whose mind is so powerful that it can "break" the laws of the matrix, allowing them to do what no other person can. This is what we know as the One. When Neo first awakes in his pod, he seems millions upon millions of other pods holding the other members of the matrix. It makes sense that if you had such a large stock (and there's no way to know how diverse the genetic stock that was first used by the machines to clone human beings was, but it seems safe to assume that they would have made it fairly diverse in order to prevent the disaster that invariably befalls crops that all come from one genetic source), you'd wind up with one person among billions whose mind was that strong.

Now, the machines realized this would happen very early on, so they built in a system of control- the prophecy. Obviously they must have a decent grasp on human nature, so it makes sense that they'd assume that some of the people they'd allowed to make Zion would be the sort that believe in fate, prophecies, etc. The machines start spreading word of this prophecy, eventually leading some of those in Zion to seek out the Oracle in the matrix. Those who truly believe in the prophecy then seek out the One, foster his development as a master of the laws of the matrix, and then bring him to the Oracle, etc etc, until the One finally goes back to the source and reboots the matrix. As Neo says at the end of Reloaded, the prophecy is merely another system of control. Up until that point, everything in his life (and even in Morpheus's life, and in the lives of other "free" humans) has been predicted and controlled by the machines.

Also, he can't just leave Trinity in the matrix when it reboots because that would leave her braindead. Her mind would "die" when the matrix she was in was turned off.

Of course, none of this even matters if you believe that the "free" humans in Zion are simply in another matrix.

Sorry for the thread derail.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » May 21, 2003, 5:32 pm

well you know that the Neo's are identical because that is what is showing on the TVs, correct? the other Neo's, which are Keanu Reeves.

i'm only making it complicated because i'm bored. I honestly dont really care that much, i had fun at the movie, ate my popcorn, etc

Post by **Sylvus** » May 21, 2003, 5:36 pm

It is my belief that those Neo's weren't different Neo's, just the different possible courses of action that the Architect predicted Neo might take. A visual representation of a giant If-Else clause, if you will.

Etasi · Post by **Etasi** » May 21, 2003, 5:40 pm

What Sylvus said. The Neos on the tv screens represent the expected response(s) for a human in Neo's situation. It's interesting that he responds differently than the machines expect in all but a few cases, with the most notable of those being his denial of Trinity's death. The fact that he responds differently to the Architect than is expected explains why he chooses not to reload the matrix the way all of his predecessors did.

And sorry if my last post seemed like a flame or anything, because I didn't mean it that way. I'm just bored, too.

Brittney · Post by **Brittney** » May 21, 2003, 5:44 pm

http://fohguild.org/forums/showthread.p ... eadid=7162

Lots of good ideas bout what the deal with the end of The Matrix Reloaded is. Page 2 or 3 I lay down what im pretty sure is goin down.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » May 21, 2003, 6:52 pm

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » May 21, 2003, 11:23 pm

Every Matrix post leads Etasi into a writing mode that rivals most novel-authors.

noel · Post by **noel** » May 21, 2003, 11:25 pm

Spoiler: Etasi is hawt. She can write whatever she pleases and I'll just nod my head.

Etasi · Post by **Etasi** » May 21, 2003, 11:35 pm

I feel sorry for my guildmates, having to read my posts on the CD boards. I'm incapable of writing short posts about anything but the most trivial stuff. Of course, I talk too much IRL as well, so I guess it makes sense.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » May 21, 2003, 11:35 pm

No one liked my big spoiler? *sniff*

-=Lohrno

noel · Post by **noel** » May 21, 2003, 11:40 pm

Drolgin and I were discussing your post today on Messenger, Lohrno.

Was VARY funny.

Lohrno · Post by **Lohrno** » May 21, 2003, 11:50 pm

Aranuil wrote:Drolgin and I were discussing your post today on Messenger, Lohrno. Was VARY funny.

Woohoo! I thought I'd made an arse of myself again.

-=Lohrno

VeeshanVault

Spoiler Thread!

What?