score

[Adex_Xeda]

Bin Laden/ Iraq link via a non-Washington source

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... wstop.html


Iraq link to non-palistinan terrorist group

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... wsad17.xml

[Pherr the Dorf]

The Al-Qa'eda link is so pathetic it's silly. They hosted an envoy... OMFG... 5 years ago.... HOLY CRAP... pahlease. A link would be something recent (like post 9/11 or just preceeding) and relevant. An envoy is a freakin joke, especially in the middle east where any guest is treated in the best possible manner. On a scale of 1 to 10, this is too pathetic to rate.

The second one is pretty common knowledge, and something that just about every country does, be it Russia, China, Iraq, UK or the USA, remember where the mujahideen got their initial funding??? A basis for war... prolly not, but yah, he did it imo.

[Adex_Xeda]

I expect nothing but dismissal from some of you.


For the rest with a open mind, it is worth reading.

[Brotha]

Just decided to post a handful of things that have been proven wrong, although not all of these have to do with this specific topic. Does it hurt to talk out of your ass so much and always be wrong? No wonder so many of you anti war, blame US first type people are so bitter- if I was wrong as much as you guys are I'd be pretty freakin bitter too.

Iraq is conquered at the cost of 10's of thousands of american lives and 100's of thousands of innocent Iraqi citizens in Baghdad.

As far as Osama bin Laden is concerned, he would probably help the US oust Saddam Hussein in Iraq. Trying to draw ties between Saddam Hussein and Al'Qaeda even "from your own memory" and trying to pass it of as legitimate is ridiculous, and anyone that knows shit about the middle east (which you clearly do not) would laugh at you for even mentioning it.

Hmmm that is some nice warm, steamy pile of bullshit.

Saddam and Osama hate each other.

Propganda, love it when America emulates tyrants via lies.

No link between Saddam and any major terrorist organisation.

Up in the air?
Saddam Hussein has noting to do with 9/11 or Al Qaeda.
There has not been one single shread of evidence that provides even the weakest of links.

I know you desparately want to tie Saddam with anti-american terrorism so you can try to further justify your contries invasion of Iraq but I have seen nothing even remotely convincing.

What's sad is that we're probably losing this war just as badly as we lost Vietnam. There are probably countless untold American casualties right now, and the facts won't come in until years after the war is over.

They aren't even in Baghdad yet.... the coalition forces can't even hold Um Qasr.... sadly, there will be many more casualties before the US forces pull out of Iraq.

After reading this it is clear to me now that it is actually MY FAULT THAT PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE GOING TO KILL HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE.

I would say the the comfortable majority of the U.S. is completely ignorant though concerning the HATE/DIE/FUCK YOU/GO TO HELL B!TCH relationship that bin Laden and Hussein have.

They hate each other. <---- That is a period.

Now, lets see what ways you all use to rationalize or excuse this find. Think hard...US could have forged it, it could have been a secret l33t Kurdish opposition force secretly working inside of the Iraqi intelligence agency, or it could have even been Osama Bin Laden trying to take down Hussein!

We'll see if this is true about you all:

Are you so closed minded that you think you can pass off your opinions as absolute and unquestionable?

Really, the hate America types are starting to make me sick, there's only so much hypocrisy and narrow mindedness that I can stand.

They want the US to intervene in Israel, but not in Iraq or any other middle eastern country.

They constantly call out even a slight slip in an American politician's wording when leaders in the middle east are bluntly calling for the death of the foreigners. Can any of them just say "we think there's a certain amount of racism in America, but compared to the middle east and many other places around the world, America is a bastion of racial and religious equality/tolerance?" I'm betting not.

They compare American treatment of PoW's to that of Iraq's without putting it into context, never giving America a bit of credit.

They blame the US for civilian casualties while Saddam's regime was a cause for a great number more. I saw some of them say we should let the Iraqi's revolt on their own, while countless thousands of more civilians would have died if this had happened. Of course, they see a dead civilian from what might have been a US bomb and they're instantly on the offensive and indignant over the loss of a human life. I've said it before and I'll say it again- If you're so against people being killed and opressed, you'd be 1000 times more angry at Saddam than America and would be ecstatic that we're intervening in Iraq, even IF you think our motives primarily have to do with oil. I think seeing so many people take up the stance of wanting to save human lives while logic and facts dictated that us doing nothing would actually cause more deaths and more people to be opressed showed more than anything that some people use any excuse they can find to criticize the US.

They blindly say we're trying to eradicate all muslims, and could give a shit less about the Iraqi people- we're just there for oil. At the same time we use precision guided bombs to avoid civilian casualties, make sending in aid a top priority, refuse to return fire at mosques, and are actively trying to recover stolen artifacts.

The Jessica Lynch story comes out. Facts are presented and eyewitness acounts from credible people are given. Then a single Iraqi doctor gives a story with many illogical and untrue aspects, and they instantly grab onto it as "the real story!"

I can see the bad things we've done, and I can see the huge amount of good. Can you anti war/leftists/anti american people say the same? Next time one of you thinks of calling someone "ignorant" or "close minded" try to think of the GOOD aspects of the US in terms of how civilized we are and how much good we've done in the rest of the world. When your thoughts keep returning to Guantanamo Bay, Vietnam, and the relatively small amount of Iraqi civilian casualties, you'll see what I mean.

Just checked the thread, the rationalizing has already started haha.

The Al-Qa'eda link is so pathetic it's silly. They hosted an envoy... OMFG... 5 years ago.... HOLY CRAP... pahlease. A link would be something recent (like post 9/11 or just preceeding) and relevant. An envoy is a freakin joke, especially in the middle east where any guest is treated in the best possible manner.

Not to argue semantics or anything, but 911 was four years in the making so this could be relevant to it. You are right about one thing though, middle east nations have been known to treat guests who hate and are actively trying to overthrow them as hospitible as possible. This is especially true for Saddam, known for his tolerance and attempts to solve differences peacefully with his enemies.

If you want to argue about the extent of the link then that's certainly debateable. If you want to argue that Saddam had nothing to do with 911, that's something I even agree with. But trying to pass this off as anything other than a huge discovery that shows a link many of us thought was not possible just shows your bias and unwillingness to believe anything that happens to contradict your views.

[Kguku]

The only thing that I sit here and ponder when I read all the crap on war on terrorism, is why aren't the USA looking at their own government. Afterall, they were the only country ever convicted in the World Courts of International Terrorism. (Nicaragua brought them up on charges in the 80's).

What I feel irks people, Brotha, is the double standards that are done by the USA when it comes to their international diplomacy and actions. <shrug>.

[kyoukan]

Uhh, no one else finds it odd that these documents show up in a random headquarters for reporters to pick up. Doesn't the US military have an intelligence department that would have cordoned off all of Iraq's HQ's and gone over everything themselves? Do they let the fucking media pick around military headquarters looking for stuff to publish? There are secret documents pertaining to a 5 year old discussion meeting with Al'Quada lying around in some filing cabinet?

[Cartalas]

Adex just give it up bro!!! Sadaam himself could tell the world that he helped Bin Laden and these Dove Fuckers wouldnt believe it.

[Adex_Xeda]

I understand that some people have a very high scepticism threshold.

I just thought that these articles were worth shareing.

If I find more I'll post them too.

I encourage people like Miir to do what Kyo does, and post interesting articles that they find.

I like reading them.

[Forthe]

US intelligence should hire these reporters, obviously they have superior file cabinet searching skills. They even saw through the attempt to hide the truth with white out.

If you don't approach stuff like this with some skepticism you are a fool (i.e. Brotha).

[Xouqoa]

Question everything.

[Pahreyia]

And reporters never, EVAR break the law to get a good story. Riiiiiiight.

[Pherr the Dorf]

The Al-Qa'eda link is so pathetic it's silly. They hosted an envoy... OMFG... 5 years ago.... HOLY CRAP... pahlease. A link would be something recent (like post 9/11 or just preceeding) and relevant. An envoy is a freakin joke, especially in the middle east where any guest is treated in the best possible manner.

Not to argue semantics or anything, but 911 was four years in the making so this could be relevant to it. You are right about one thing though, middle east nations have been known to treat guests who hate and are actively trying to overthrow them as hospitible as possible. This is especially true for Saddam, known for his tolerance and attempts to solve differences peacefully with his enemies.

If you want to argue about the extent of the link then that's certainly debateable. If you want to argue that Saddam had nothing to do with 911, that's something I even agree with. But trying to pass this off as anything other than a huge discovery that shows a link many of us thought was not possible just shows your bias and unwillingness to believe anything that happens to contradict your views.

Actually if you'd really like my honest opinion on Saddam, I thought he should be removed from power, but I don't like being lied to. Yes it is our governments opinion that lies are easier then ugly truths, but call me jaded, I want ugly truth to back up ugly wars. I play devils advocate OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS, mostly to bait people and see if they call intelligently back up their viewpoint. To call this a real link is paper thin and I know even you can see that, to say they hosted an envoy is not a big deal, as you stated in your reply. And white out is a riot, sorry but officials are not that stupid, but I digress. The validity of this is questionable, but even if it is real, it still is pretty weak evidence. Al-Q'aeda, like any terrorist organization worked very autonomous, it is the nature of any radical movement, even our Militias in the USA (which are radical but NOT terrorist) are autonomous from each other almost exclusively. And before anyone tries to tie Oklahoma City to a Militia, after thorough investigation it was determined that attending a few meetings and being basically kicked out does not tie you to any of the Militias in question. But I will say, give me the truth, the American public can handle the truth and history bears this out. Our government is NOT doing that, and it is fucking pathetic.

[miir]

Saddam Hussein's regime was linked to an African Islamist terrorist group, according to intelligence papers seen by The Telegraph.

So only The Telegraph had access to these "intelligence papers"?
Interesting that no other government or media source has picked up on this story.... doesn't that make you question the validity of the story?


As for the bin Laden link, British intelligence agents have noted that they were aware of the meeting and that there had been no follow up meetings between Saddam and al Qaeda.


From the Iraqi who found the 'secret documents'

My fear is America will make more of this truth than is really there.

Bin Laden and Saddam were enemies, this we know," he said. "But there is a saying &#8212; the enemy of my enemy is my friend

Of course I am shocked to find bin Laden's name on these papers. But as an Iraqi, I know Saddam was a man who kept all the game pieces available to him

[Atokal]

Uhh, no one else finds it odd that these documents show up in a random headquarters for reporters to pick up. Doesn't the US military have an intelligence department that would have cordoned off all of Iraq's HQ's and gone over everything themselves? Do they let the fucking media pick around military headquarters looking for stuff to publish? There are secret documents pertaining to a 5 year old discussion meeting with Al'Quada lying around in some filing cabinet?

I have to agree here. It seems altogether too neat and tidy a package to be taken at face value. Although had the US or UK intelligence agencies found these documents the cry of planted evidence would have echoed around in Kyoukan's head. It is a no win situation with regards to evidence I am afraid.

[Wulfran]

A couple things here...

1) as mentioned is the fact that ONLY the Telegraph has come out with this story: why not anyone else?

2) as others mentioned it does seem a little suspicious the way the documents were "found" but I am willing to concede that could be related to the reporter's description (dumbing it down to the lowest common level of understanding?).

3) what was mentioned in the article sounds like the opening of dialogue between Iraq and al-Qa'eda, 5 years ago (or 2 1/2 years before 9-11). There is nothing describing any type of relationship going further, aside from the possibility of an "oral message" being taken back.

The whole "enemy of my enemy" thing is something that could be played a lot of ways but really all these articles do is fuel more speculation. If the documents are authentic, they prove there was some preliminary discussions, not that any type of relationship was forged or that any aid was given.

Call me a dove, call me blind, call me whatever you want, but make sure also call me unconvinced.

[Crav]

I won't discount that if the papers are factual then it would provide some help in trying to justify the war. However, I would need to see other documents to first attenticate the document then see other documents of what happened after the initial meeting. I mean for all we know the whole incident could have been a way of trying to eliminate Bin Laden. We can't really know without further information.

[miir]

Brotha's posts are really quite amusing if you take the time to read them.

Pretty sad when you have to search back through months of posts to take quotes out of context is a pathetic attempt to gain credibility.

Then he pulls out the 'anti-american' trump card claiming anyone who disagrees with him obviously hates america.
Dubya would be proud of you. Your mind is so weak and malleable that everything he says you parrot it right back out without question....

If you're not with us, you're against us!



Then you go and try to paint individual opinions with broad brush strokes.
You can't discuss individual idea so you take the easy way out... how many times have you claimed that us 'american haters' said this war was only about oil?
How many times have you said us 'american haters' accused the US of hating muslims.


You may not ralise this, but most of us think for ourselves and develop our own opinions based on what we see and read.

The reason you're a favorite target of ridicule on this forum is because you parrot the 'government line' almost ver batim. The garbage you post here could be cut and pasted from any right wing, conservative loudmouth...You're a good little american. It's almost like you're reading from a script. You have your keywords and catchphrases and use schoolyard bully tactics to strengthen your arguments.

Keep it up, Brotha.
You one of the last bastions of amusement in this forum.

[Krimson Klaw]

I agree with Miir on a few points, but I tend to think that Brotha is believing everything reported by the media. Bad bad.

[Pahreyia]

The worst part, Miir, is that you're so egoistically stuck in your "I think my myself, so I am that much better than you are!" line of bullshit is getting old. Not everyone has to subscribe to your self-engrandizing, cynical and narrow world view. Some people are content to live their lives being happy and not worrying about what "big brother" is up to every second of every day.

I salute your efforts to retain as much information on every topic as you do, and most of the time, your posts are relevant enough to keep in line. But jesus, sometimes, not always, but sometimes things can be just that simple, and your endless "what if's" don't bring any more to the discussion.

[Brotha]

Miir, the anti American part was supported by examples. Go back and look at your or others posts. ANYTIME something is said that goes against the US, no matter how unsubstantiated or even if it has no factual evidence whatsoever, you and others here immediately believe it and jump the bandwagon. I don't believe in "you're with us or against us", but when things like that happen over and over and over it's plain to see how you think.

You can't discuss individual idea so you take the easy way out... how many times have you claimed that us 'american haters' said this war was only about oil?

I mention it when I talk about the incredibly hypocrical things people say, the majority of whom claimed one of our primary motivations was oil. I see a few civilians dying (not to diminish their deaths) and you all jumping on the US for these, yet our actions will save lives in the end. That's when I mention the oil part. If you really had these strong principles against people being killed you would support the US action. This is yet another instance of when your true colors come out. You use any excuse you can get to degrade the US.

Also, any type a specific issue is brought it up, I do address it. When discussing the merits of the war or a host of other issues the oil part ties in. Point me out to a time where something was discussed and out of the blue I said "THS ISN'T ABOUT OIL I WATCH FOX NEWS CHANNEL SO I KNOW BETTER!!111!", and I didn't address the issue.

Keep it up, Brotha.
You one of the last bastions of amusement in this forum.

That's what this board is for, I'm glad I provide you this amusement. I guess I should in turn thank you and kyoukan, and a few others here, because trust me, watching US haters get their weak/ignorant arguments get shredded to pieces is also a form of amusement for me .

[miir]

The worst part, Miir, is that you're so egoistically stuck in your "I think my myself, so I am that much better than you are!" line of bullshit is getting old.

So thinking for yourself and having the pressence of mind to question government and media is a bad thing?


It's not like I take it to such an extreme that I question everything I read and hear...

[Metanis]

That's what this board is for, I'm glad I provide you this amusement. I guess I should in turn thank you and kyoukan, and a few others here, because trust me, watching US haters get their weak/ignorant arguments get shredded to pieces is also a form of amusement for me .

I thank you Brotha.

It's too bad the "US haters" never seem to learn anything... they are truly intolerant yet they perceive themselves as the enlightened ones. Truly sad.

[Kelshara]

Of course that argument could just as well be made about your side. And the label "US haters" is so friggin stupid it is laughable.

[Kluden]

Still...how can you not question this find? It silly...that's all. And why can't we believe the chap who says the Al queda group and Iraq never met again?

Besides all this...Show me the fucken weapons of mass destruction please! And, please, don't give me links to pesticide finds, or spent casings and that shit. What I wan't is pictures and locations of both the "Mobile Chemical Facilities" and the "Burried Nuclear/Chemical Facilities".

I will be happy to support Dubya when he shows what I would dub as "real proof". Not this shit that is open ended and falible.

btw...I still love the U.S.

[Pahreyia]

The worst part, Miir, is that you're so egoistically stuck in your "I think my myself, so I am that much better than you are!" line of bullshit is getting old.

So thinking for yourself and having the pressence of mind to question government and media is a bad thing?


It's not like I take it to such an extreme that I question everything I read and hear...

I'm not saying that it applies to this source in particular, but I can not recall a thread pretaining to the war on iraq where you did not take the "anti-american" or "illegal war" or "america hater's" approach. Now, your own personal feelings aside, could there ever be a statement or a published article from any US official or respectable news source that you would be willing to take a face value? Because from what I've observed, you take journalistic integrity and throw it out the door because tabloids exist.

If I were to pick up the Washington Post/NY Times/LA Times or tune into CNN/MSNBC/FoxNews etc. and they were to report that the US found WoMDs, Saddam's bunkers, Saddam, his brother, their bastardized child and his pet cat in a room with BinLaden and decided to bunker-buster the thing to hell without taking pictures, and probabily incinerating everything that could be remotely viewed as evidence, I'd probably take it on good faith. I wouldn't ask if it were justified or not, or if the sources were credible. But if the US has it on good faith or evidence that he's there, bombs away.

Now, I am going overboard with my example, and I want you to see that as a point of discussing factual information exchange by credible sources, instead of picking apart my example for the myriad of simplifications, overstatements and personal bias'.

[Lalanae]

I guess I should in turn thank you and kyoukan, and a few others here, because trust me, watching US haters get their weak/ignorant arguments get shredded to pieces is also a form of amusement for me .

What board are you reading? Oh I forget, you have the brilliancy of Spangaloid, Neziroth, and Metanis on your side. The gems I could amass from your collective posts would be enough to create an intellectual black hole that would systematically suck all life into it through my moniter.

[Cartalas]

I guess I should in turn thank you and kyoukan, and a few others here, because trust me, watching US haters get their weak/ignorant arguments get shredded to pieces is also a form of amusement for me .

What board are you reading? Oh I forget, you have the brilliancy of Spangaloid, Neziroth, and Metanis on your side. The gems I could amass from your collective posts would be enough to create an intellectual black hole that would systematically suck all life into it through my moniter.

You sure its a Black Hole doing all the sucking

[Kelshara]

And you comment on other people's one-liners or attempts at being witty? Oh please.

[Lalanae]

who me? I was being complimentary; I think you misread.

[Dregor Thule]

I guess I should in turn thank you and kyoukan, and a few others here, because trust me, watching US haters get their weak/ignorant arguments get shredded to pieces is also a form of amusement for me .

What board are you reading? Oh I forget, you have the brilliancy of Spangaloid, Neziroth, and Metanis on your side. The gems I could amass from your collective posts would be enough to create an intellectual black hole that would systematically suck all life into it through my moniter.

You sure its a Black Hole doing all the sucking

A bit of creative editing here:

"...you have...Spangaloid, Neziroth, and Metanis...sucking...hole."

[Cartalas]

And you comment on other people's one-liners or attempts at being witty? Oh please.

With you its one word!





TOOL

[Cartalas]

who me? I was being complimentary; I think you misread.

Sorry just in Dream land

[Lalanae]

who me? I was being complimentary; I think you misread.

Sorry just in Dream land

Actually I was talking to Kelshara because it seemed her post was directed at me regarding a post I made on another thread.

[Kelshara]

No it was aimed at Cartalas, who once again showed the board he has the intelligence of a rocket scientist.

An Iraqi rocket scientist.

[Lalanae]

No it was aimed at Cartalas, who once again showed the board he has the intelligence of a rocket scientist.

An Iraqi rocket scientist.

Ok, my bad. Carry on!

[Cartalas]

No it was aimed at Cartalas, who once again showed the board he has the intelligence of a rocket scientist.

An Iraqi rocket scientist.

The Iraqi Rockets that carry WMD. Do me a favor dont knock when ya come home Ill leave the tool Box open.


Kelshara's home

[Atokal]

No it was aimed at Cartalas, who once again showed the board he has the intelligence of a rocket scientist.

An Iraqi rocket scientist.

The Iraqi Rockets that carry WMD. Do me a favor dont knock when ya come home Ill leave the tool Box open.


Kelshara's home

[Spangaloid_PE]

What board are you reading? Oh I forget, you have the brilliancy of Spangaloid, Neziroth, and Metanis on your side. The gems I could amass from your collective posts would be enough to create an intellectual black hole that would systematically suck all life into it through my moniter.

what makes you so got damn smart?

[Lalanae]

What board are you reading? Oh I forget, you have the brilliancy of Spangaloid, Neziroth, and Metanis on your side. The gems I could amass from your collective posts would be enough to create an intellectual black hole that would systematically suck all life into it through my moniter.

what makes you so got damn smart?

HAHAHA

Edit: ok now that I've got that out, as its been explained many times you have a deficiency in critical thinking. I do not.

[Spangaloid_PE]

What board are you reading? Oh I forget, you have the brilliancy of Spangaloid, Neziroth, and Metanis on your side. The gems I could amass from your collective posts would be enough to create an intellectual black hole that would systematically suck all life into it through my moniter.

what makes you so got damn smart?

HAHAHA

lol, um, what?

[Spangaloid_PE]

What board are you reading? Oh I forget, you have the brilliancy of Spangaloid, Neziroth, and Metanis on your side. The gems I could amass from your collective posts would be enough to create an intellectual black hole that would systematically suck all life into it through my moniter.

what makes you so got damn smart?

HAHAHA

Edit: ok now that I've got that out, as its been explained many times you have a deficiency in critical thinking. I do not.

haha, it's never been explained, just reiterated, over and over again.

[Xzion]

You all have no clue if Saddam has links to al'quaeda, i have no clue if saddam has any links to al'qaeda, and thats the way it will stay until they are shown 5 years from now holding hands in Syria! sippin on some kool aid in a pimped out cave

[miir]

You all have no clue if Saddam has links to al'quaeda, i have no clue if saddam has any links to al'qaeda, and thats the way it will stay until they are shown 5 years from now holding hands in Syria! sippin on some kool aid in a pimped out cave

Well, I'm more apt to believe that he never had ties with al Qaeda, being that the most convincing evidence has been a questionable 'secret' document that suggests Saddam tried to arrange a meeting with Osama bin Laden over 5 years ago.

[Kelgar]

With you its one word!





TOOL

If we were to create some sort of hierarchy of "toolness" so to speak, we would have to put you and Metanis into the "Home Depot" category.

[Cartalas]

With you its one word!





TOOL

If we were to create some sort of hierarchy of "toolness" so to speak, we would have to put you and Metanis into the "Home Depot" category.

Ouch Good one there "Tool Time Tommy"

[Kelgar]

It's been ages since I've bothered to watch television, however, if I'm not mistaken it's "Tim" or "Timmy".

Seriously, teh suckdom of your rebuttals knows no boundary.

[Vetiria]

It is Tommy, but I'll agree on your 2nd part.

[Kelgar]

I see.

I guess it should come as no surprise that Mr. 47 chromosomes would be more familiar with Rugrats than Home Improvement.

[Cartalas]

I see.

I guess it should come as no surprise that Mr. 47 chromosomes would be more familiar with Rugrats than Home Improvement.

Oh and your witty combacks are by far the best I have ever seen, Im sure 90% of you dribbled down your moms left leg.

[Cartalas]

With you its one word!





TOOL

If we were to create some sort of hierarchy of "toolness" so to speak, we would have to put you and Metanis into the "Home Depot" category.

"Anuin
Gets Around





Joined: 06 Aug 2002
Posts: 110

Posted: April 28, 2003, 1:21 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I dunno about the word tool, but its brings up a funny subject.

My history teacher loves the insult tool, and has developped several levels of "toolness". Its starts at the regular level of tool, to tool box, toolshed, and on one occasion, he has referred to someone as "fucking home depot". Quite possibly one of the funniest things I've ever heard anyone say. "



Well Kelgar I just came a cross this post by Anuin and then more then 24 hours later you post your Gem, Get your own material.