NFL Draft

Ogbar · Post by **Ogbar** » April 25, 2003, 2:51 pm

Does anyone else here watch the NFL Draft? Even the biggest football fans I know sorta make fun of me: I cant help it, I love watching it.

This year's draft (Saturday and Sunday, btw) proves to be an exciting one, as there are only about 14-15 propects graded out to be "1st round material", which means there will be a lot of wheeling and dealing in the first round. Case in point, it looks like the Jets just landed Chicago's 4th overall pick. It will be interesting to see what NE and NO do, because they both have two picks in the late teens.

Anyway, any other psychos out there?

Tegellan · Post by **Tegellan** » April 25, 2003, 2:54 pm

I never even understood the idea of the drafts, can't they just buy the players they need? I am a Euro, so not too well versed in this, i do watch superbowl and such though. How about posting an explanation of this for us Euros? I would actually like to know what it's about.

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » April 25, 2003, 3:07 pm

Usually, me and friends get together for beer and wings to watch the draft...but only the first round. We never really care to see anything after the first round...unless it is an exceptionaly strong class of rookies....which this year it is not!

Ogbar · Post by **Ogbar** » April 25, 2003, 3:10 pm

I never even understood the idea of the drafts, can't they just buy the players they need? I am a Euro, so not too well versed in this, i do watch superbowl and such though. How about posting an explanation of this for us Euros? I would actually like to know what it's about.

The Draft is the annual selection meeting. I guess they do this so that there are no great bidding wars over players who are newly eligible to play, whether they have just finished their college eligibility, or have decided to waive the remainder of it (once you submit your name, get an agent, etc, you are no longer an amateur, and can no longer play college ball).

There are seven rounds, where the team order to select a player's rights is determined by the inverse of how well the teams faired the previous year: Cincinnati was the worst (again), so they pick first each round, and Tampa, who won the Super Bowl, selects last each round. Picks, of course, can and have been traded already, with more to come during the event.

Rights are good for a year, and if a player doesnt sign in that period, he can re-enter the draft the next year (case in point, Bo Jackson, who never signed with Tampa Bay, played baseball exclusively for a year, then was drafted the next year by the Raiders).

What makes it fun is that players are ranked, so it is generally known about when a player should be selected, but there are always teams that 'reach' for a player sooner, or some players that 'fall' due to a lack of need at a particular position, or for personal reasons (Warren Sapp fell a few picks because he was viewed to be a "pot head", for example).

And for every move, good or bad, there is a team of ESPN analysts spewing their opinions - it's kinda fun to watch them make asses of themselves, frankly.

Anyway, I hope this helps a little

EDIT: Oggie can't spell ...

masteen · Post by **masteen** » April 25, 2003, 3:10 pm

I watch it on Saturday, always. I used to watch Sunday to see where Jimmy Johnson would make his moves to find the real stars of tomorrow, but since he's retired, I haven't seen another coach with his knack for finding NFL caliber players on Day 2.

This years draft is fucking THIN on talent, but loaded with bad attitutes and agent hype. I can't wait to see how Al Davis squanders the picks and cizash the Bucs gave him. He's like the anti-JJ; he finds the worst possible talent, and then trades UP for them

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 25, 2003, 8:55 pm

I'll watch it if I remember to. Being from Arizona and following the Cardinals gets depressing though!

Spangaloid_PE · Post by **Spangaloid_PE** » April 25, 2003, 9:03 pm

i will always remember Kijana Carter, RB from penn state, drafted by the bangels. the sports dudes (i think it was Mel Kiper the most) talking OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of trash and then Carter getting a season ending injury early in the season. i thought it was the first week of football, but i forget. anyways i tihnk it ended up ending his career. never heard form him after that season. /shrug

Baglaz · Post by **Baglaz** » April 25, 2003, 9:17 pm

heh Carter blew out his knee in the first preseason game he ever played in, and really didnt do anything after that. Pretty sure he's out of football now. He was part of the line of Penn State RB's who had good college careers but sucked when it came to play in the pros(TJ Dozier, that guy from the Jets in the early 90's, Curtis Enis....will probably be able to add Larry Johnson to that list this year)

Flops this year will probably include whoever gets drafted in the bottom half of the first round, cept McGahee. Another Florida reciever coming out, Jacobs, and will continue that line of suckage(Travis Taylor, Jacquez Green etc....). OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of the good picks this year will come after the first round since OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of the players all have similar grades in rounds 2-4.

Glmipsing at ESPN a few minutes ago, looks like Detroit and New England are talking about swapping picks which would fuck the first round all up.

cid · Post by **cid** » April 25, 2003, 10:03 pm

Winnow wrote:I'll watch it if I remember to. Being from Arizona and following the Cardinals gets depressing though!

Well shit!!!

Now that Emmitt is going there, I am definetly going to try and make a game or two this season.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » April 25, 2003, 10:10 pm

Will watch it tomorrow but that is all. I usually watch the first two rounds and really nothing else.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » April 26, 2003, 2:42 am

I'll be watching. We having a VV Fantasy Football League this year?

Tegellan · Post by **Tegellan** » April 26, 2003, 9:49 am

I watched the movie any given sunday the other day. I have been trying to learn the rules of American football, but there was something in it i don't understand, in one clip the Quarterback passes the ball to a runner (wide receiver?), who runs with the ball, but is stopped because the judge calls holding or something, what does that mean?

Baglaz · Post by **Baglaz** » April 26, 2003, 12:09 pm

Its a penalty, kinda like in basketball where they call fouls, penalties are the same thing. They are calling a foul because of something that was illegal that could have possibly changed the outcome of the play, like holding.

Arborealus · Post by **Arborealus** » April 26, 2003, 1:33 pm

Tegellan wrote:I watched the movie any given sunday the other day. I have been trying to learn the rules of American football, but there was something in it i don't understand, in one clip the Quarterback passes the ball to a runner (wide receiver?), who runs with the ball, but is stopped because the judge calls holding or something, what does that mean?

Offensive Players are not allowed to impede defensive players by actually grabbing them with their hands...That is Holding

Re: The guy who caught the ball...Could be a tight end, wide receiver, or any of the backs. Wide Receiver lines up on the line, typically well away from the down linemen. Tight Ends line up on the line usually next to the down lineman. Backs are behind the line. The WR and TE may also be in motion on the snap.

Hope thats not all too befuddling...

Axien_Dellusions · Post by **Axien_Dellusions** » April 26, 2003, 2:00 pm

New Orleans DID have a late round pick, they just traded with the Cardinals for Johnathan Sulivan from Georgia.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » April 26, 2003, 5:13 pm

Denny Green must have been laughing his ass off inside when the Viqueens didn't beat the clock even though they finally got the guy they wanted.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » April 27, 2003, 9:20 am

Bubba Grizz wrote:Denny Green must have been laughing his ass off inside when the Viqueens didn't beat the clock even though they finally got the guy they wanted.

Your Right!! Wait lets not forget some of Denny's Draft day Blunders " Can you say Dimitrius Underwood"

Denny was a Tool

Revs · Post by **Revs** » April 27, 2003, 10:50 am

Minnesota let the clock wind down and Arizona let Suggs slip by.

at Stragi. But I won't be surprised if McGahee does play and has a great season being that he was picked so low...

Baracus · Post by **Baracus** » April 27, 2003, 11:11 am

Baglaz wrote:He was part of the line of Penn State RB's who had good college careers but sucked when it came to play in the pros(TJ Dozier, that guy from the Jets in the early 90's, Curtis Enis....

Blair Thomas

Ogbar · Post by **Ogbar** » April 28, 2003, 11:46 am

Well, I love what the Pats did. True, they didnt get the best rated DT in the draft, but I have to wonder if trading 2 1s, a 2, and a 3 to the Lions would have been worth it. As it turns out, they got one of the high rated DTs in the draft, but better yet, they traded their second number one for a number one next year (which has just GOT to be a deeper draft) and a number two this year. Thanks, Ravens ... now go 1-15, will ya ...

In the first two rounds, they went DT, CB, and WR, all need areas.

Day two was just as good, if not better. They got the one guy I hoped they would draft: Dan Klecko, Big East defensive player of the year, and son of, you guessed it, Joe Klecko, the great ex-Jet. I saw this kid play a couple of times this year - he is a force. If it werent for his height (5-11), he would have certainly been a high round pick. Silly scouts - they'll knock a guy for anything.

They only picked one OL, a center, from Boston College - I guess they needed another center from Boston College. They could have done better here (another need area), and they picked no running backs, so, over all, I give them a B+

masteen · Post by **masteen** » April 28, 2003, 12:37 pm

Baglaz wrote:Another Florida reciever coming out, Jacobs, and will continue that line of suckage(Travis Taylor, Jacquez Green etc....)

I'm sick of hearing what a bust TT was. He's caught more balls every season while also improving his yds/catch every season. All this on the piss-poor Ravens offense, which last year scored an astounding 20 receiving TDs, 6 of which were caught by Taylor. I guess we'll see now that they have a live body to pull the trigger at QB.

Jacobs has the advantage of being drafted by his old HBC, and pairing him up with Coles will be a dangerous combo. Clint Mitchell should have stayed in school and beefed his lanky ass up some.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » April 28, 2003, 1:17 pm

Denny Green must have been laughing his ass off inside when the Viqueens didn't beat the clock even though they finally got the guy they wanted.

Eh was more invovled there than not beating the clock. Deals were being made with two teams, final deal was made and then they got a busy signal when they tried to call the commissioner or whatever. Was an interview with the NFL guy in charge on Sunday.

Was a fun draft, some surprises but also some very good draft jobs I think. I loved the fact that 12 QBs were taken before Dorsey.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » April 28, 2003, 2:31 pm

Well, the Browns wasted an entire draft. Like we really needed Lee Suggs and two centers (though one was nice).

And how the fuck did Brad Banks NOT get drafted? Also, how the fuck did Drew Henson come back and get drafted before him?

Baglaz · Post by **Baglaz** » April 28, 2003, 2:32 pm

6 TD's is average for a guy taken in the top 10 in the draft. Guys taken that high are supposed to be dominators, ALA Owens, Harrison......

masteen · Post by **masteen** » April 28, 2003, 3:25 pm

It's kinda hard to dominate when you're the only thing resembling a weapon on the field. Harrison and Owens both have stud QBs throwing to them as well.

Deward · Post by **Deward** » April 28, 2003, 5:09 pm

I watch every year as much as I can. This year was pretty predictable and there wasn't as much talent as in previous years. It seemed the scouts were digging for every little thing they could on nearly all of the players. I guess only time will tell. If I was Carson Palmer, I would be scared to be playing in cinncinnati. That place kills quarterbacks. I guess we will see if Marvin Lewis can do anything there.

Baltimore got a couple of the higher picks in Boller and Suggs but it will hurt them next year when there will be more talent to choose from. Suggs is probably a third down pass rushing specialist ala Kabeer Bjaja Biamilla. He is too light to play full time in my opinion. Booler, like most QB's, is a toss-up

Deward

Baglaz · Post by **Baglaz** » April 28, 2003, 6:16 pm

He was hardly the only weapon on the field for them, since they also had Jamal Lewis for that entire year, rushing for 1200 yards that year.

Guys who dominate in a similar situation as Taylor would be guys like Rod Smith in Denver, Boston in Arizona, could even add Randy Moss in there since Dante hasnt done much the past 2 years.

If he turns out to be a decent player, then I'll eat my words, but given the track record of Florida players taken in the first few rounds the past few years, it doesnt look good.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » April 28, 2003, 6:34 pm

The Steelers got the safety they needed badly. They could have a very solid secondary this year and that could make them very very dangerous again. Their other key in my opinion is to have a healthy Bettis back for that crushing ball control offense to keep the ball in the 3rd and 4th quarters.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » April 29, 2003, 10:44 am

Yeah, Rod Smith dominated last season when McCaffrey went down, scoring 5 TDs (one less than TT) in Mike Shannahan's system. Boston and his one fucking TD is another fine example of dominance. Do you even watch football, or do you just like to talk out of you ass?

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » April 29, 2003, 10:50 am

masteen wrote:Yeah, Rod Smith dominated last season when McCaffrey went down, scoring 5 TDs (one less than TT) in Mike Shannahan's system. Boston and his one fucking TD is another fine example of dominance. Do you even watch football, or do you just like to talk out of you ass?

I have to agree with Masteen here to much attention is given to recievers that score TD's, what about the guys that catch the passes over the middle and get there teams withing scoring distance week after week. Guys like Michael Irvin,Herman Moore,TT.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » April 29, 2003, 11:42 am

Don't forget Keyshawn, Cart. He was a trooper all last season, grabbing the tough catches, taking the licks, and getting his satisfaction from the big team "W" in 2003. I have much respect for posession receivers.

But those guys weren't like that. Those guys didn't do shit for their teams. Smith is only useful as a deep threat to keep the safeties off McCaffrey, and don't even get me started on Boston.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » April 29, 2003, 12:40 pm

masteen wrote:Don't forget Keyshawn, Cart. He was a trooper all last season, grabbing the tough catches, taking the licks, and getting his satisfaction from the big team "W" in 2003. I have much respect for posession receivers.

But those guys weren't like that. Those guys didn't do shit for their teams. Smith is only useful as a deep threat to keep the safeties off McCaffrey, and don't even get me started on Boston.

The classic puke is Randy " I have Alligator arms" Moss

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » April 29, 2003, 2:17 pm

Cartalas wrote:I have to agree with Masteen here to much attention is given to recievers that score TD's, what about the guys that catch the passes over the middle and get there teams withing scoring distance week after week. Guys like Michael Irvin,Herman Moore,TT.

Hines Ward! Where is the love for the total package at receiver? Put up huge numbers last year and was still the best blocking receiver in the last 15 years.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » April 29, 2003, 2:20 pm

Andre Johnson was the 3rd pick. he is big can block, and can catch over the middle.

Detroit picking that guy from MSU ahead of him was stupid.

Baglaz · Post by **Baglaz** » April 29, 2003, 3:36 pm

He had 89 catches, but I guess you think thats mediocre. He probably would have had more than 5 TD's if it were not for some guy named Portis getting 17 TD's. Smith played hurt for all of last season, and still out produced a healthy Travis Taylor. Yeah, Taylor is real fucking good. Hell, Taylor wasnt even the leading reciever on his own team, that goes to a tight end, Heap. Boston was hurt 4 or 5 games into last season, and was still only 300 yards behind Taylor, who played the entire season. But remember, in 2001, Boston had Plummer throwing to him, and still managed something like 100 catches and 1500 yards, more than your boy TT could ever dream of doing, and Boston really was the only weapon on that entire team. No one was afraid of Thomas Jones or Plummer since they both are stiffs.

Big props to Hines Ward and Burress, those 2 owned the Browns corners all day in they're playoff game, and ultimately ended up winning the game for them.

Revs · Post by **Revs** » April 29, 2003, 4:47 pm

Someone explain how Keyshawn had one TD and still made it to the Pro Bowl about two years ago

Good, I hope his gimp ass retires after 10 seasons...

Krurk · Post by **Krurk** » April 29, 2003, 5:06 pm

http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/REC/2001/regular

Because he led the NFC in receptions and was 7th in the NFL in yards. However the offense was so anemic that it couldn't score TD's no matter what.

Normally Tampa uses him as a possesion receiver for getting 3rd down conversions and leaves the scoring to it's running backs (Alstott 11, Dunn 6 http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFC/TTDS/2001/regular ).

Granted if you look at the team from 2002 they had no one who was a dominant scorer, with Alstott again leading the team with 7.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFC/TTDS/2002/regular

If I recall, going into week 6 Derrik Brooks (a linebacker) was leading the team in TD's with 4.

Fortunately as the playoffs approached the offense began to show some signs of life and if all goes well will continue to grow this year. Just hard to do much when your QB is running for his life because the offensive line resembles a turnstyle.

*edit fixed a link

masteen · Post by **masteen** » April 29, 2003, 6:04 pm

The fact that Smith, was almost out-produced by a guy coming off a broken thigh is telling in my book. He sprained his ankle? Boo-fucking-hoo.

It only took the Cardinals' opponents a couple years to figure out that Teh Snake was more show than go. Coincidentally, Boston's number hit the toilet at the same time. "Damn, you mean I have to catch balls through coverage?"

Baglaz · Post by **Baglaz** » April 29, 2003, 8:55 pm

Try running on 1 High ankle sprain, let alone 2 like Smith did all last year, then tell me he is no good. Never the less, he still outproduced a healthy Travis Taylor in catches and yardage while letting Portis score all the TD's. Once Taylor actually does something special and produces like a top 10 pick should, I'll get off his case. But since he wont, he'll end up getting out-produced by a second round choice from the same draft(Kevin Johnson-not even the best reciever on his own team) and most people will end up critisizing him for lack of production.

Boston was well on his way to another outstanding year last year until he got hurt, and the fat contract he got this offseason proves that everyone in the league still thinks he is one of the elite recievers.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » April 30, 2003, 12:29 am

Masteen, are you seriously trying to say that Travis Taylor is a better receiver than David Boston (or Rod Smith, but let's focus on Boston here)?

You pointing out that Boston's numbers were lower than Taylor's last year is completely inane. Boston played what, half a season hurt? Of course his numbers are going to be lower.

You also say that Boston's numbers started going in the shitter as soon as opponents realized that Plummer wasn't any good. How then do you account for the fact that, in Boston's last full season, he put up his best numbers? Am I completely missing your point, or do you not have one?

Let's look at the numbers, listed for the last full season played by either:

Taylor:
61 Receptions
869 Yards
6 Touchdowns
14.2 Average

Boston:
98 Receptions
1598 Yards
8 Touchdowns
16.3 Average

So by exactly what measure is Taylor better than Boston?

I'm not trying to knock Taylor here, and maybe I'm arguing too much about sports. But seriously, I can't comprehend any situation in which Taylor could be viewed as superior.

Akronn · Post by **Akronn** » April 30, 2003, 9:03 pm

Voronwë wrote:Andre Johnson was the 3rd pick. he is big can block, and can catch over the middle.

Detroit picking that guy from MSU ahead of him was stupid.

Aye, especially considering the fact that Detroit needs a QB of starter calibur. OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of good a reciever is when you have trouble getting him the ball.

Baglaz · Post by **Baglaz** » April 30, 2003, 9:28 pm

Detroit has Joey Harrington at QB, #1 pick from a year ago. I think the reason they took Charles Rogers over Johnson was because Johnson is not as good a route runner as Rogers.