Not trying to start anything here, just curious

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » April 16, 2003, 4:24 pm

I'm just curious about the theological beliefs of people on this board. I am not looking for debate AT ALL, so don't worry about actually posting what you believe. I just want to see some numbers...

Edit: For you slow folks, when I say organized religion I'm not differentiating between Christian factions such as Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran etc. If you are an undenominational Christian, still pick the last one.

I know some people get confused...*smirk*

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » April 16, 2003, 4:31 pm

omg, you're starting something here! Grr, argh!

The only kind of faith I believe in is internal faith. I view most peoples devotion to religion as a way of putting the abstract concept of inner faith in ones self into something they can understand. Plus people like scapegoats. I have no qualms with religions tho, as long as they don't try and force their views on me or anyone else that doesn't want it. I think that's been happening FAR too much as of late...

Spangaloid_PE · Post by **Spangaloid_PE** » April 16, 2003, 4:32 pm

isn't being agnostic believing in God but no religoin?

Spangaloid_PE · Post by **Spangaloid_PE** » April 16, 2003, 4:33 pm

nm...

One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » April 16, 2003, 4:35 pm

No agnostics are fence-sitters. They won't say there is or isn't a God.

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » April 16, 2003, 4:40 pm

See my edit above for anyone cosidering option 3.

dast911 · Post by **dast911** » April 16, 2003, 4:41 pm

For me, losing people that I held close to my heart (both parents and my best friend within a little over 3 years) had a major impact on my beliefs in God, heaven, hell, etc.

I'm not sure if many others see it the way I do, but It's almost like I didn't have a choice but to believe they were in a better place. I mean, this can't be all there is to life. Some people may say you turn off like a TV when you die. Isn't that like saying you have no soul?

But yeah, I definately believe in the man upstairs, even if things in the world crumble all around me, I still make it through.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » April 16, 2003, 4:41 pm

I definitely believe there is a higher power, I just believe that it's impossible for humans (as we are now) to ever comprehend even the smallest aspect of it.

Ennia · Post by **Ennia** » April 16, 2003, 4:48 pm

Mother Nature
that would be a c I guess

Acies · Post by **Acies** » April 16, 2003, 4:52 pm

What do you put if you know that there is a god, but do not know if it is all that it says it is, and/or the possiblity of the existance of other deities?

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » April 16, 2003, 4:53 pm

Acies wrote:What do you put if you know that there is a god, but do not know if it is all that it says it is, and/or the possiblity of the existance of other deities?

Thats where "Higher Power" comes in. Its a generic term.

Acies · Post by **Acies** » April 16, 2003, 4:55 pm

Lalanae wrote:
Acies wrote:What do you put if you know that there is a god, but do not know if it is all that it says it is, and/or the possiblity of the existance of other deities?
Thats where "Higher Power" comes in. Its a generic term.

Ah, I hate that term

Legenae · Post by **Legenae** » April 16, 2003, 5:03 pm

Ennia wrote:Mother Nature
that would be a c I guess

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 16, 2003, 5:19 pm

Atheist

I respect whatever beliefs someone has as long as they don't bother me with them and respect that I don't have any beliefs.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » April 16, 2003, 5:23 pm

Atheist.

Whatever gets you out of bed in the morning and encourages you to live a 'moral' lifestyle is cool, just don't tell me I need it to do the same.

Post by **Xouqoa** » April 16, 2003, 5:34 pm

Agnostic.

Not sure there is a God, not arrogant enough to pretend like I do or don't know for certain.

noel · Post by **noel** » April 16, 2003, 5:42 pm

I believe in a higher power/God.

I don't profess to be a specific faith, and I tend to be interested in different theologies, and their tenants. I apply the ones that fit my morals/values to my life. I'm not fond of church or people who preach, at all.

If I had to classify my beliefs, I'd say they fall somewhere between Christian and Buddhist.

One of my favorite quotes about religion:
I believe in God, but the God I believe in isn't short of cash. - Bono

To go along with that, the God I believe in has no need to go door to door trying to convert people.

Metanis · Post by **Metanis** » April 16, 2003, 5:47 pm

I'm a Christian.

I don't think Christians have a lock on divinity. I don't think Christians have the only path to God or to heaven.

You can question the preachers and the preachings, but once you've felt the "peace of God", you will never question his existence again.

And no, I'm not talking about drugs or alcohol here

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » April 16, 2003, 5:50 pm

Atheist. As soon as people realize that prayers don't accomplish shit and they actually start doing something about their troubles, the world will be a better place.

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » April 16, 2003, 5:51 pm

Christian.. to be truthful, OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of the world religions have pretty much the same "There is God, he is good, don't sin" mentality, and given how similiar all of them are, I'd be more inclined to say that there is only ONE God, but he has many faces.

a_guide · Post by **a_guide** » April 16, 2003, 5:54 pm

Aranuil wrote:To go along with that, the God I believe in has no need to go door to door trying to convert people.

Move to Utah... I thought it would be a huge issue, but every public building, store, apartment complex, ect has No Soliciting signs posted and enforces the policy.

That gets a halleluja from me!

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » April 16, 2003, 6:23 pm

When you say higher power does that include space aliens that planted us here millions of years ago as some grand scientific experiment that has since gone horrifically awry?

Just askin!

Legenae · Post by **Legenae** » April 16, 2003, 6:25 pm

kyoukan wrote:When you say higher power does that include space aliens that planted us here millions of years ago as some grand scientific experiment that has since gone horrifically awry?

haha! you sounds just like my step-father.

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » April 16, 2003, 6:29 pm

kyoukan wrote:When you say higher power does that include space aliens that planted us here millions of years ago as some grand scientific experiment that has since gone horrifically awry?

Just askin!

LOL

Initially I would have said no, unless they have some control over present existence, but there are Deists who believe in the old Clockmaker theory, so...I guess that would be a yes...

Axien_Dellusions · Post by **Axien_Dellusions** » April 16, 2003, 6:30 pm

Agnostic borderline atheist. I believe in science but there are many unexplained things that happen in our world as well.

Calixte · Post by **Calixte** » April 16, 2003, 6:47 pm

I believe there is a God, but I don't follow any one religion.

I was brought up Catholic but strongly disagreed with most Catholic teachings. I've also been to Methodist/Baptist churches - I didn't agree with them either.

(nothing against Catholics/Methodists/Baptists by the way. They just weren't for me.)

I think part of the reason I am somewhat against "organized" religion is it was forced upon me while I was growing up. I didn't get a chance to figure out what *I* believed in - my relatives did it for me. In my opinion, that's an unfair thing to do to a child.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » April 16, 2003, 6:52 pm

Gailen told me you worship teh debil, and he digs that about you!

Calixte · Post by **Calixte** » April 16, 2003, 6:57 pm

masteen wrote:Gailen told me you worship teh debil, and he digs that about you!

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » April 16, 2003, 6:58 pm

Xouqoa wrote:Agnostic.

Not sure there is a God, not arrogant enough to pretend like I do or don't know for certain.

MY GOD COULD KIK UR GODS ASS HAEHAHEHAHE!

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » April 16, 2003, 7:11 pm

Calixte wrote:I think part of the reason I am somewhat against "organized" religion is it was forced upon me while I was growing up. I didn't get a chance to figure out what *I* believed in - my relatives did it for me. In my opinion, that's an unfair thing to do to a child.

I agree. I was pretty lucky and had parents who didn't force anything down my throat. I was made to go to Sunday school some of the time, but my father always made it clear that religion is a personal choice and one that I would make as an adult. I was raised to see it as a quest, a rite of adulthood. My theological beliefs evolved over 8 years, from mysticism to born-again Christianity to believing in a God but not religion, to agnosticism, and finally to atheism. It evolved because I read, I learned about what makes people what they are, what makes society function, the true nature of history. I never read a single atheist (content-wise) work until I realized that I did not believe in a higher power. It was very liberating and affirming.

Trias · Post by **Trias** » April 16, 2003, 7:13 pm

if there is a god then fuck him untill he comes over for a visit...then we will be cool

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » April 16, 2003, 7:39 pm

I was raised as a Christian (confirmed as a Lutheran) but I started questioning a lot of the history behind the religion as I grew older and more educated/informed. I see a lot of the adaptation of older beliefs and symbols in Christianity and it does make question the credibility of the religion, as a whole. I respect many of the fundamental judeo-christian values, but the religion(s) doesn't give me the answers to my queries.

In the end I fall under C: there is just too many questions for me to believe there is not some form of higher power, but be damned if I know who/what it is and if it/they are benevolent, ambivalent or anything else.

Calixte · Post by **Calixte** » April 16, 2003, 7:58 pm

Genuinely curious here - For those of you who don't believe in God or a higher power (and I assume you also don't believe in heaven/hell, but please correct me if I'm wrong), what do you believe happens once you die? Is that it - you just die?

noel · Post by **noel** » April 16, 2003, 8:01 pm

Calixte wrote:Genuinely curious here - For those of you who don't believe in God or a higher power (and I assume you also don't believe in heaven/hell, but please correct me if I'm wrong), what do you believe happens once you die? Is that it - you just die?

I asked one of my atheist friends that question once, and he replied with, "Worms."

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » April 16, 2003, 8:13 pm

It's depressing, unromantic, and not what most people will accept, but yeah, when it comes down to the cold hard truth, I think that once you die, you're dead.

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » April 16, 2003, 8:13 pm

You forgot an option....

Beleives organized religions are just a more widely accepted cult. With membership dues requested to be approximately what is it? 20% of your wages? And beleif in a being that does not exist on the basis of fear you will go to a bad place that does not exist.

The thing is I do beleive in the majority of it's rules, and therefore I consider it a good thing....even if the people who practice organized religion are more likely to break thier own rules then myself because although they fear eternity in hell, they also state they can be forgiven. Where as I beleive that forgivness is not automatically given via prayer and roseries, but up to the individual whom I offended...and they might opt to blow my brains out instead.

Speaking of which religious fanatics often ask me "well aren't you afraid of dying?" the answer is "no", while I don't look forward to it, there is not much to be afraid of, because while I can't look forward to heaven, I am also not frightened of hell..I expect nothing to happen..how can you fear nothing?

There are just too many damn inconsistancies int he bible to take the work seriously, there is no scientific evidence of god, and there is quite of a bit of evidence to prove the bible incorrect.

For example adam and eve VS evolution.....or the fact god is all forgiving but if you were raised in a buddist hosehold and never heard his name...you will go to hell to burn for all eternity.

I appreciate the fact that what the religions are trying to do is get people to follow a set of guidelines that will improve everyones standard of living, but fear tactics don't sit well with me. Factions killing eachother over minor differences of opinion in the name of god worries me (especially since one of the commandments is "thou shalt not kill").

Basically I have mixed feelings on the subject....I almost feel as if someone was to do a study to see how often christians, catholics, or muslims.. murder, rape, or kill someone (including in the name of thier god)...that it would likely exceed athesists figures. And the more religious someone is, the more likely they are to have confrontations and be willing to write it off in the name of forgivness or an act in the name of thier god, cleansing unbeleivers or whatever.

I'm confused. But I do know I am not religious. I'm a logical thinker, not abstract. Whatever that right brain left brain crap...I suck at the arts, I like science.

When I was in Tampa last week I had been drinking in Ybor (the party area near St. Petersburg, very cool btw) and right after some dude on my right side and his chick were taken away in cuffs by police (and some old guy was video taping it, maybe I'll be on cops heh he was wearign all black and following the cops all night)....

Anyway right after that some christian tried to convert me and it bothered me to see someone so brainwashed to beleive that he should spend his evenings trying to draw 20% of my income to his church so his preist or whatever would have more money to romance small boys with behind closed doors. However I'm sure it was equally disturbing to him that I failed to see his god, that he was trying to help prevent my soul from eternal damnation in hell or whatever and I just wouldn't listen and speak his prayer with him as simple as it would be to do for him.

I remember somewhere reading or hearing about what it means if people see, hear, or beleive in things that noone else can perceive. I forget the medical term for that...can someone remind me?

I don't mean to call anyone crazy or stupid....by all means if you beleive in god, continue to do so....my grandmother writes religous books, seriously. But please I would like to see a little more morality coming from the "children of god" then I typically see, I have been very dissappointed by what I have seen thus far and it pisses me off that you guys sit there and judge me for being immoral while you guys break even more of the rules you try and enforce on me then I do even though I am not frightened by the whole fire and brimstone BS.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 16, 2003, 8:18 pm

Lalanae wrote:
I agree. I was pretty lucky and had parents who didn't force anything down my throat. I was made to go to Sunday school some of the time, but my father always made it clear that religion is a personal choice and one that I would make as an adult. I was raised to see it as a quest, a rite of adulthood. My theological beliefs evolved over 8 years, from mysticism to born-again Christianity to believing in a God but not religion, to agnosticism, and finally to atheism. It evolved because I read, I learned about what makes people what they are, what makes society function, the true nature of history. I never read a single atheist (content-wise) work until I realized that I did not believe in a higher power. It was very liberating and affirming.

ditto what Lalanae just wrote. Very well written : )

The best thing that my parents did for me was not cram religion down my throat. My mother went to Christian school and my father is a protestant. End result: two atheist kids by choice.
-------------------
As for Calixte's question:

I guess we turn off like a lightswitch when we die. That doesn't mean I don't think it'd be nice if something more happened but I'm not going to believe it just to put my mind at ease.

Calixte · Post by **Calixte** » April 16, 2003, 8:19 pm

Lalanae wrote: I agree. I was pretty lucky and had parents who didn't force anything down my throat. I was made to go to Sunday school some of the time, but my father always made it clear that religion is a personal choice and one that I would make as an adult. I was raised to see it as a quest, a rite of adulthood. My theological beliefs evolved over 8 years, from mysticism to born-again Christianity to believing in a God but not religion, to agnosticism, and finally to atheism. It evolved because I read, I learned about what makes people what they are, what makes society function, the true nature of history. I never read a single atheist (content-wise) work until I realized that I did not believe in a higher power. It was very liberating and affirming.

That was very smart of your parents to let you know it *was* your decision. In my opinion, that is the way it should be.

It's also very good that you read up on and experimented with different religions/beliefs. I've always wondered how someone can know without a doubt that ONE religion is right for them if they've never experienced any others.

I do suppose it is possible, though.

I've always thought my beliefs should be "from the heart". When I practiced (or was forced to practice, I should say) Catholicism, I always wondered how my prayers could be from the heart when they were memorized prayers that were said *every* time I went to church. I went into auto-pilot mode during mass because the entire service was ingrained in memory. It wasn't meaningful to me in the least.

When I was a Baptist, it saddened me to see so many hypocrits in one place. (note: I am referring to some of the people I met while praciticing the religion - I am not generalizing.) They talked of loving thy neighbor and at the same time looked down on you if you weren't dressed a certain way, or didn't live a certain way - their way.

shrug, I am sure my bad experiences with the church and being forced to practice have pushed me away from organized religion.

I prefer that though. God knows how I feel, and that's really all that matters.

Keverian FireCry · Post by **Keverian FireCry** » April 16, 2003, 8:22 pm

Agnostic. Xou said it pretty perfectly.

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » April 16, 2003, 8:23 pm

Maybe the bigger question is why nonexistence is such a problem for people to accept. Read some human psychology and it might clarify why people have to believe in a life after death. Most people believe what they need to believe in order to prevent death anxiety from taking over. Its the only thing that truly separates us from the animal world: a sense of self, including the pitfalls of that recognition.

Calixte · Post by **Calixte** » April 16, 2003, 8:27 pm

Dregor Thule wrote:It's depressing, unromantic, and not what most people will accept, but yeah, when it comes down to the cold hard truth, I think that once you die, you're dead.

Putting religion and God aside, I think another reason heaven/hell came into existance was to ease people's minds.

Personally, the thought of there being NOTHING when I die is pretty damn depressing. To think of all my life's experiences, the people I love, and everything I hold dear to me POOF, gone, in one single moment - bleh... yea, pretty sad.

I am terrified of death because of the possibility that there really is nothing afterwards.

Most people believe what they need to believe in order to prevent death anxiety from taking over.

Yep, I would be one of those people.

devereaux · Post by **devereaux** » April 16, 2003, 8:30 pm

Calixte wrote:Genuinely curious here - For those of you who don't believe in God or a higher power (and I assume you also don't believe in heaven/hell, but please correct me if I'm wrong), what do you believe happens once you die? Is that it - you just die?

No, you pass on your legacy to your children and to your children's children, you try to instill in them your best qualities and bring out theirs knowing full well you did your best to provide them with more than you had growing up, so that some road down the future when the human race progresses to the point where everyone is civilized and not killing each other, they can trace some of those finer human qualities back to your bloodline.

Acies · Post by **Acies** » April 16, 2003, 8:33 pm

devereaux wrote:
Calixte wrote:Genuinely curious here - For those of you who don't believe in God or a higher power (and I assume you also don't believe in heaven/hell, but please correct me if I'm wrong), what do you believe happens once you die? Is that it - you just die?
No, you pass on your legacy to your children and to your children's children, you try to instill in them your best qualities and bring out theirs knowing full well you did your best to provide them with more than you had growing up, so that some road down the future when the human race progresses to the point where everyone is civilized and not killing each other, they can trace some of those finer human qualities back to your bloodline.

I think she meant what hapens to you, as in your consciousness.

I believe that your focus determines your reality. Thus speaking, when we die I believe we are broken down into beings of thought exemplified. In this, you make your own heaven/hell, as you believe you are relative too.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » April 16, 2003, 8:36 pm

Organized religion evolved because of the fears and anxieties of people, yes. It's a tool, used to calm the masses and give them some focus, faith, and a general sense of worth in the world. Some use it to do good in their communities, some use it as a reason to start wars and kill, some use it simply for a crutch. There's many reasons for why and how. I don't believe in organized religion for myself, but I shudder to think of what would happen to the world if suddenly all forms of organized religion disappeared... I don't think the popullation of Earth could handle it.

Honestly, I would have zero qualms about churches except for a few glaring reasons. Corruption in the church is one, it's far more prevalent than most people think, and it's sad that there are those that will prey on the faith of others and exploit it. Preaching to those who don't want to hear it is another. Just because you think God is great and how you do things is how it should be doesn't give you any right to tell me that I need to think and live that way too.

Your average joe who goes to church on Sunday's I have no problem with. I just fear bible thumpers.

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » April 16, 2003, 8:37 pm

I fear Bible Thumpers too..

The word is there if you want to hear it. There's a difference between "offering" someone somthing in religion, and forcing it down their throats.

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » April 16, 2003, 8:46 pm

Pils the question wasn't what you think of religion, but do you believe in God. I made the yes's two options (organized & non) because there is a great deal of difference between them, I feel. Then you have your no (atheist) and maybe (agnostic).

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » April 16, 2003, 8:52 pm

Ya, why do people have to beleive in heaven? Why can't they accept just regular death?

It's not scary...you go to sleep but you don't dream..

Everyone dies eventually. I will die, you will die, all of our family and friends will die, without exception.

The concept of heaven doesn't take the pain of a bullet to the lung away, it doesn't take the years of being confined to a bed riddled with cancer away.....

It just takes the concept of pain AFTER death away. And the only reason people think there might be pain after death is RELIGIOUS BULLSHIT.

Religions made up the concept of hell and punishment after death. Without that concept there is nothing to be afraid of....

So in effect, religions are not only the solution to death anxiety, they are also the cause....

I mean when your head hits the pillow tonight...will you be afraid to go to sleep? Will the fear of possibly sleeping and not having a dream give you ulcers? I mean sleeping is scarier then death....I could have a nightmare...when your dead you don't have dreams, but you also don't have nightmares. And noone can sneak up on you and say jmaybe stab you in the eye with a fork...well I eman they could but it wouldn't hurt.

I mean I hate the concept of death, I'd love to just be 20yrs old in good health for eternity with all my friends and family....but things happen, you get old, you die, etc, etc...

Me....I'm probably going to die of a heart attack....my mom's dad had 7 the 7th killed him he was maybe 60, my fathers dad has had 2 so far he is 70. My mothers father had 4-5 brothers, they all died of heart problems at early ages, my uncle has had a heart attack, I had a 2 yr old cousin die with a heart issue, my mother and atleast one of her other brothers have heart murmurs. Oh and my mom's grandpa died of a heart attack also. Basically were batting maybe 85%...

Sucks....eh? My beleif in god wouldn't change a thing, most of those men were religious. They all look just as happy...religious or not religious they are just kinda motionless and pale when I saw them....

Now I could maybe use the time spent praying and exercise, or change my diet....I could read more about hearts and possibly delay or prevent my heart attack.....but I will still die. haha. Funny shit eh? Jokes on me...I can't prevent my death, I can maybe delay it or even change it to a different form of death...but I'll still die and get pale and motionless like the others.

Me? I'm going for cremation....no point in spending all that cash and then typing up good farm land or whatever with my dead rotting corpse. Oh yeah, unless someone needs my organs...they can take those, I don't need them.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » April 16, 2003, 8:54 pm

"There's nothing an agnostic can't do if he doesn't know if he beleives in something or not"

Monty Python
Church Bells Skit
Flying Circus

Lalanae · Post by **Lalanae** » April 16, 2003, 8:58 pm

dude are you on speed?

Edit: Honestly though, if you really want to understand why people need to believe, read Freud's Civilization & Its Discontents. Thats a good place to start.

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » April 16, 2003, 9:09 pm

Does the thoguht of going to bed, going to sleep, and never, ever waking up bug me? The thought of all that is ME existing in nothing but people's memories - that's it, good bye, TV is off, show is over, no end credits no music no NOTHING the cessation of ME in all of my forms in who I am all I think and the hardships I have endured mattering for NOTHING, going into the empty blackness but not having a consciousness even to tell that it's there.. not being...

Not being.

Yeah, that bugs me.

A nightmare I can wake up from.
Not being.. there's nothing TO wake up from.

VeeshanVault

Not trying to start anything here, just curious

Which most applies to your theological beliefs

Not trying to start anything here, just curious