Buffy the Vampire Slayer

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » April 15, 2003, 10:28 pm

This isn't something I'd usually talk about openly, since it usually gets weird looks and scoffing chuckles, but I'm going to miss this show. A lot. For seven years it's been perhaps the most underappreciated show out there. The writing is better than excellent, the acting just right for the genre/subject, and the character development so engrossing that I actually care what happens to you. Plus it's got cute girls. That kick.

Tonight was the 5th last episode of the series, and it was nothing short of great. For those of you who watch it and know what I'm talking about, you're the lucky ones. To those who've never given it a chance and just blew it off as fluff, do yourself a favor, just try. And to those who tried and it wasn't your thing, hey, that's cool. Can't be for everyone.

So ya, this was a weird post... but I felt like saying something about it!

Post by **Xouqoa** » April 15, 2003, 10:38 pm

I used to watch it with my (now) ex-gf but at the time it was just an excuse to stare at Sarah Michelle Gellar for an hour and not get in trouble. I always thought it was a pretty decent show, though. I stopped watching around the time Angel got his own show.

Legenae · Post by **Legenae** » April 15, 2003, 10:41 pm

I am really going to miss this show. /sigh Spike is my fave character on the show

I have Seasons 1 & 3 on DVD so far.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » April 15, 2003, 11:04 pm

Legenae wrote:I am really going to miss this show. /sigh Spike is my fave character on the show

I have Seasons 1 & 3 on DVD so far.

The last 2 seasons have been rather bad imho.

Ahmik · Post by **Ahmik** » April 15, 2003, 11:07 pm

the good news!

Buffy just started over from episode one the other day on Sci Fi!

Legenae · Post by **Legenae** » April 15, 2003, 11:08 pm

Animalor wrote:
Legenae wrote:I am really going to miss this show. /sigh Spike is my fave character on the show

I have Seasons 1 & 3 on DVD so far.

The last 2 seasons have been rather bad imho.

Actually, I don't mind the past few seasons. The season I didn't care for was the whole Riley and the Initiative stuff.

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » April 16, 2003, 3:14 am

The initiative sucked, I agree.. two best seasons were season 2 and season 3.. Spike and the Mayor.

Last season as ok.. got to see a few sides of people you'd never expect. Really, who thought Xander was going to end up like he has?

But yes, going to miss Buffy, bigtime.. they keep changing the times that they air Angle, so it's almost impossible to keep watching (tho the last few episoes I've been able to catch have been Damn freaky)... I heard that they are doing another spinoff, just wondering who's going to be in it.. Willow and Zander, I hope.. or Xander and Spike.

Aaeamdar · Post by **Aaeamdar** » April 16, 2003, 3:21 am

I have to agree about the show. It really is some of the best TV out there. THe writting is incredably strong. I do have some advice to give on teh show, though, if you have not seen it and are wantin to give it a go.

1. You have to start with Season 1, episode one and watch it sequentially. Buffy is constantly refering back to itself and if you just pick it up in the middle, you are going to miss a lot of the humor.

2. Season one was not very good. The writing was decent to good, but the production value sucked. Like all shows, the characters in Season 1 are just getting to know themselves and as such are very black and white - play a "type" rather than a "person." The plot of season 1 and the big bad at the end is not really all that interesting. On the good side - it was a mid-season replacement show - so Season 1 is only 12 edispodes and the DVD set is cheap. Deal with it. If you want to give this show a chance, Season 1 is where you need to start.

3. Seasons 2 and on completely kick ass. All round - in writing, production, acting, etc. So far, the big bad of Season 3 and 6 are my favourites - but no spoilers!

4. The show is exceptionally "smart" and steeped in references to other works. This includes Buffy itself, but also classic lituraure, pop culture, and Sci-Fi geekdom. If, like me, you are well versed in all of it, the show is much more enjoyablle.

I would give this show my strongest reccomendation.

Aaeamdar · Post by **Aaeamdar** » April 16, 2003, 3:26 am

I think Willow and Spike could fit into Angle quite well, I am not sure either could carry a series on their own. Willow, maybe, if done right. A lot of what will work depends on how, if at all, they wrap up Buffy.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » April 16, 2003, 5:41 am

IMO Seasons 1-3 were some of the best TV ever made but after that it's been in decline. 4 was pretty good considering the huge changes they had to deal with. 5 was pretty boring and 6 was just shite (apart from the obvious episode).
7 has been good so far and looks like being a decent send off but here in the UK we're only just approaching halfway through the season so I'm going to avoid this thread now in case of accidental spoilage

The Angel series is great too. Apart from a few weak episodes at the end of season 2 (Lorne's home world blech) it's been consistently brilliant. Primetime TV needs more crossbow bolts through the throat!

Drolgin Steingrinder · Post by **Drolgin Steingrinder** » April 16, 2003, 7:27 am

My sister watches the show religiously, and has gotten me addicted as well. It is indeed very smart, and very postmodern in the metatextual references. The brilliant thing about the scripts is that you aren't screwed if you don't get the references - they are added layers that expand the show for you, but they aren't required to follow the story.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » April 16, 2003, 7:47 am

I watch it with my better half

Good show, one of the few shows I still bother turning the tv on for.

The spin-off will supposedly be with Faith as the main person. Unconfirmed, but still..

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » April 16, 2003, 9:35 am

Eliza Dushku (Faith) has signed on for a pilot for Fox, so for now a spinoff with her isn't likely, but I do hope it happens. Rumors have it that Spike is almost for sure going to Angel, and surprisingly, Giles has expressed interest as well. Willow wants to focus on movies more. Xander wants to keep going with the Xander character, but it wouldn't make much sense him being on Angel considering the tension between them.

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » April 16, 2003, 11:00 am

Spike going to Angel would be the pwn..
Those too have so much tension it's great.

Giles, oddly enough.. that sounds cool.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » April 16, 2003, 11:05 am

Giles expressing interest is odd just because last season he left Buffy, sort of, so he could spend more time in England with his familly... maybe it was more a matter of he didn't like the way the character was going... or maybe he hasn't been able to find as much work as he hoped. As far as spinoffs go, I could actually see a Giles one. Think there was talk of a Watcher mini-series in the UK actually...

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » April 16, 2003, 12:36 pm

Yeah there was talk. I think there still is talk. Tony Head as seen a decent amount of work back here in Blighty but it's been pretty uninspiring crap.
My pet theory is that after a year back here he's suddenly thought "Hang on, I gave up LA for THIS!!?!??!??" and come to his senses

Giles is just such a great character though. Whoever wrote the English characters in Buffy/Angel (I'm specifically thinking Giles, Spike, Wesley) did a bang-up job. Their use of slang is incredibly accurate, the accents of the non-English actors are great (honourable mention to Juliet Landau for the cockney Drusilla) and the manners/repression/tetchiness/attitude to Americans was hilariously well drawn.

"Cuppatea, cuppatea, almost got a shag, cuppatea"
"Hang on. . .bugger. . .loo. . .shag. . .damn! I'm English as well!"
"Put it on and stop being a wanker"
Lol

Legenae · Post by **Legenae** » April 16, 2003, 12:54 pm

I never really got into the Angel spinoff. But if Spike is heading on over there, then I'll have to start tuning in I guess

I hope Giles will go over to Angel as well. He cracks me up... some of his facial expressions are hilarious.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » April 16, 2003, 1:10 pm

This last season has been pretty good overall, imo. Season 1 made up for low production values with oodles of old horror-flick camp.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 16, 2003, 1:21 pm

Dregor Thule wrote:Eliza Dushku (Faith) has signed on for a pilot for Fox, so for now a spinoff with her isn't likely, but I do hope it happens. Rumors have it that Spike is almost for sure going to Angel, and surprisingly, Giles has expressed interest as well. Willow wants to focus on movies more. Xander wants to keep going with the Xander character, but it wouldn't make much sense him being on Angel considering the tension between them.

Damn dregor : ) You've got the scoop on everything.

I like Eliza Dushku's looks and acting. What's the pilot/storyline that she signed up for with Fox?

masteen · Post by **masteen** » April 16, 2003, 1:24 pm

Winnow wrote:I like Eliza Dushku's looks and acting. What's the pilot/storyline that she signed up for with Fox?

She is one hawt bitch. Hopefully, she's gonna be on the next 24 to kick the shit out of Keifer's stupid, whiney daughter.

kurzweil · Post by **kurzweil** » April 16, 2003, 2:13 pm

Buffy was good, then when Angel started, the writers moved over to Angel, and Buffy started slacking.

The episodes of Angel with Spike in it were fantastic. Good writing.

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » April 16, 2003, 4:21 pm

I don't watch much TV but buffy is one of the shows I will watch on occassion. For several reasons, the frequency of hot chick appearances during the show is extremely high, I mean add up all the hot chicks you will see ina season of buffy and compare it with all the other shows I watch pooled together that season and buffy probably still wins...even the "homely" chicks on buffy are usually just hot chicks in bad clothes/make-up...and secondly I just like the supernatural type aspect.

I hated the inititave part vampire hunters=cool, cyborg with a floppy drive in his chest = gay, I mean who uses a floppy drive now? Especially in a cyborg....I mean they are 10x more advanced then us and to be honest...the machine I'm typing from has no floppy...no zip disk, no superdisk...that's all old school shit. Neither does my second machine..the 3rd and 4th do although I am not sure they are functional....The only hard part is the stupid MF's who put boot disks in with thier hardware....use a CD for christs sake, floppy disks are lame...it was a real bitch to get the boot disk for my last hard drive to work to partition it...because the "floppyless install" instructions started with the line "boot from the floppy" how dumb can you fucking get? How is that floppyless?

I didn't like the geek trio either....

Anyway....I've been out of touch for a while...

willow I assume is re-involved with the dark arts? Spike probably has the chip removed by now, I saw a commercial where faith came back...angel and charisma capenter's character left for angel to stop demons in LA or somewhere a long time ago.

But what happened to Xander? I missed something big I think....I always liked his character..kinda like the Chandler Bing character from friends, sarcastic etc...I mean we have a physical hero (buffy-vampire slayer), a supernatural mental hero (willow-witch), and a supernatural physical hero (angel/spike-vampires).....

What happened? Is he a vampire/demon now to replace angel/spike? Or did he develop mental powers (a supernatural aspect no heros have had so far that I know of on buffy)? But Xander isn't really the mental type...wasn't he working construction? Or something even more unexpected? Is he even a hero? Is he maybe evil now?

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » April 16, 2003, 4:28 pm

Xander is without a doubt my favorite character. Any of the "Xander episodes" are great to watch, usually because they're comical. He was the comic relief of the show. But he's all grown up now (the actors like 30 or something, creepy), and he's basically become the heart and soul of the Scooby Gang. Last nights episode was especially hard, I won't say why for those who haven't caught it tho...

Spike is still on the show, he's still pretty much his same self, just more into saving the girls instead of sucking em

I watch Angel, tho I didn't at first, started partway through the 2nd season I think. It's very different from Buffy, a lot more serious at times, darker... the widescreen format lends itself to that. I've hated the Cordelia storyline going on right now, and Conner is one whiney little fuck. But everything else has been great. I watched the rerun of the ep. where they go to Las Vegas the other night... got me all nostalgic

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » April 16, 2003, 4:38 pm

Scooby gang? That's how he changed?

Do I even want to know what that exactly means?

Please say your kidding...or that I am misinterpreting....

masteen · Post by **masteen** » April 16, 2003, 4:39 pm

I'm looking forward to the episode where they kill off Connor. No character that fucking whiney should survive a season.

I mean seriously, he gets some from Cordelia, but still has teen angst? I'd have a more beatific glow than fucking Budda after some of that ass, Armageddon or no.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » April 16, 2003, 4:43 pm

Scooby Gang is just the nickname for the Slayer group... he's not off solving crimes in a trippy van with a talking dog and a pothead like another cast member!

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » April 16, 2003, 5:07 pm

Cordelia is Charisma Carpeter's character right?

If so I definately agree, anyone who sleeps with her would have to quit with the whining because I would have no sympathy for them. One night with that could make me forget a lot of bad shit ever happened.

If I was to rank them in order it would probably be:
<a href="http://www.haxorwear.com/shalazar/pics/stills/cc004.jpg" target="blank">Cordelia</a>
<a href="http://www.pure-evilness.com/buffy/Imag ... hkumm1.jpg" target="blank">Faith</a>
<A href="http://network23.com/hub/ahas/images/pics/fhm/2.jpg" Target="blank">Willow</a>
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/lalotato/emm.jpg" target="blank">Anya</a>
<a href="http://www.sarah-michelle-gellar.com/cg ... G1-nmd.jpg" target="blank">Buffy</a>

If any of them see this they shuold contact me at Pilsburry@Dangermice.com we can discuss how the ranking was done and why they ranked as high or as low as they did, in-person, over dinner,

Forgive the links to pictures, I didn't feel like scouring the web for the best shot of each cast member...I took the first shot found of each.

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » April 16, 2003, 5:13 pm

Dregor Thule wrote:Scooby Gang is just the nickname for the Slayer group... he's not off solving crimes in a trippy van with a talking dog and a pothead like another cast member!

Ok good. Although if they want to maybe let Mary Jane guest star on the season finale I wouldn't object. Or shoot, even Thelma..if I remember right Thelma was hot too.

P.S. I'm not a pathetic horny desperate geek, I just play one on VV.

Kargyle · Post by **Kargyle** » April 16, 2003, 5:13 pm

Maybe he figures that being all Angsty McAngst got him some before, so now he if he keeps it up he can score again.

Or maybe is just wasn't all that good, and he's angsty because it didn't live up to his expectation?

I don't watch Angel, but Charisma Carpenter is very hot.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » April 16, 2003, 5:16 pm

Mary Jane? Thelma? Do you mean Daphne and Velma?

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » April 16, 2003, 5:16 pm

Sadly, Conner will be back if Angel's picked up for another season (I think it will be). I like the character when he's not whining... it's just that he's whining 99% of the time.

Pilsburry · Post by **Pilsburry** » April 16, 2003, 5:47 pm

<a href="http://us.ent4.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.co ... llini8.jpg" target="blank">Velma</a>...Thelma..whatever...she was actually kinda cute behind the glasses and the baggy sweater was a serious <A href="http://207.44.210.72/lindac/linda33.jpg" target="blank">hottie</a>. I know these things. Links provided

Daphne was Sarah Michelle Geller, We already agree she is hot.....link in above post.

I do in fact mean Mary Jane....she was Shaggy's friend in the movie. Very hot. Isla Fisher was her name, Australian hottie soap star.

Ahem Pic included

Understood?

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » April 17, 2003, 12:22 am

I just saw last night's buffy.. (I love Kazaa downloads.. curse you, UP-farking-N).. all I can say is.. Xander..

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » April 17, 2003, 1:07 am

Aaeamdar · Post by **Aaeamdar** » April 18, 2003, 6:08 am

Xander is not exactly one of my favourite characters (Willow and Spike for me), but "Zeppo" is one of my all time favourite episodes. Actually, if the lesson Xander learned in that episode had stuck with him, he might have turned out to be a pretty good character.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » April 18, 2003, 2:09 pm

Which was Zeppo?

Aaeamdar · Post by **Aaeamdar** » April 18, 2003, 2:27 pm

Second or Third season. Buffy and crew are saving the world, but Xander is off alone. Cordelia (ahh , right Cordelia is in it - so Second season) tells Xander he is just a "+1" that the scooby gang lets hang because he fetches them cofee. While Buffy and crew are making sure the Hellmouth is not opened, Xander saves the school from a small group of walking dead.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » April 18, 2003, 3:45 pm

Ah yeah, that was a great one. The one where Xander has the love spell cast is a really good one too... and the Xander double too... and... aieee!

Soriathus Serpentine · Post by **Soriathus Serpentine** » April 20, 2003, 4:43 am

Xander several times as single handedly saved the world by himself. Aka the "cake" the zombied where baking and end of season 6 when Willow was about to destroy the world and Xander's love stopped her. Still can't believe what happened to him in the last episode.

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » April 20, 2003, 9:51 am

He's the one guy everyone can really relate to.. the guy with no special powers, the guy that knows he's gonna get hurt, but does things anyways.. just because he knows it might make a difference.

He's been there for buffy a dozen times for emotional support, if it wasn't for him keeping a eye on the slayerettes, they'd have been dead long before (or suicided).

He may be the comic relief.. but he's also the heart of their crew.

Kindo · Post by **Kindo** » April 21, 2003, 8:46 am

Earlier this season he gave Dawn a little speech about being the guy with no special powers yadda yadda yadda that was pretty moving. At the end of the speech Dawn said something along the lines of "Maybe that's your power, the power of the heart". Xander has always been a favorite character of mine, he remains the constant while others come and go.

Legenae · Post by **Legenae** » April 21, 2003, 6:37 pm

I have to wait until Saturday for new episodes of Buffy, since I don't get the US channel that it's on. Unfortunately, they didn't show it this past Saturday

They opted to air the Merlin tv movie thing. /sigh

They may show the eppy this weekend (I hope)... but I gave in and read the Wildfeed.

OMG Xander

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » April 21, 2003, 8:04 pm

I suggest using Kazaa to download the new episodes, they're usually on there the night of or the next day. I've been getting Angel that way the past few weeks since we're behind an episode for some fucked up reason now.

Drolgin Steingrinder · Post by **Drolgin Steingrinder** » April 22, 2003, 3:26 am

A lot of the better bittorrent sites have the episodes up for download within 12 hours of them airing, check http://www.torrentlinks.com for links to some of those pages.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » April 22, 2003, 11:18 am

One of my favorite episodes was an old Halloween episode, where they all became what they dressde up as. Xander became a special forces guy, and that was the first time I really remember him kicking ass.

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » April 22, 2003, 12:53 pm

Yea, that was great.
Then a few episodes later, when Buffy needed him to get the rocket launcher to use against the Judge.

Cordelia: So do guys really think taking women to places like this makes them horny? (inside a ammo depot)
Xander: That's the thought..
Cordelia: Does it do that to you?
Xander: Cody, I'm a teenage male. Looking at linoleuim makes me horny.

Shaerra · Post by **Shaerra** » April 22, 2003, 1:07 pm

I, like, SO know what you mean about being all bummed that the show is ending. Like, I never watched Buffy but, like, I felt the SAME way when Melrose Place was ending. OMG! I was, like, CRUSHED!

Aranuil knows what I mean...

Legenae · Post by **Legenae** » April 22, 2003, 1:14 pm

Thanks Dregor & Drolgin.

I'll see if I can download the eppy tonight. *fingers crossed*

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » April 28, 2003, 11:16 pm

Bet you thought this thread was gone, didn't you! Moohooha! I read an article summing up Angel pretty well for those of you Buffy watcher's on the fence about Angel. It's really worth getting into, especially with the upcoming vacuum of good TV to watch with the end of Buffy looming.

---

Angel Shines Brightly
by Gregg Wrenn - April 25, 2003

It's hard enough to create one superb television show. Imagine how tough it is to capture lightning in a bottle twice, forging a spin-off and building a whole new show on supporting characters from the original. For every Frasier, the airwaves are polluted with the numerous shows the likes of AfterMASH or Joanie Loves Chachi.

History was hedging its bets against Joss Whedon four years ago when he created Angel, the offspring of his phenomenal Buffy the Vampire Slayer. But Whedon was one of the few that managed to beat the spin-off curse. Now, as Buffy heads into the homestretch of its seven year run, it's clear that not only is Angel a superior TV show compared to the current incarnation of Buffy, but the child has grown as good as the parent ever was, if not better.

Angel has never received the kind of acclaim or pop-culture buzz Whedon's signature show had received from the very beginning. I had some serious doubts about the spin-off myself: Sarah Michelle Gellar is a true star, her supporting cast was terrific and the Buffy writers had managed to strike a perfect balance of humor and relatively sap-free emotion. David Boreanaz, who played Buffy's vampire boyfriend Angel for three years before launching the new show, was always fairly vanilla on the original. His one chance to shine had been the second half of the second season which he spent as the evil Angelus. It was easily his best work, but the new series was supposed to focus on Angel the hero and up to that point Boreanaz hadn't shown a fraction of the champion's charisma his former leading lady displayed every week.

Angel's first year was a bumpy ride, but surprisingly good. Charisma Carpenter, another Buffy refugee, transformed her Cordelia Chase character from the popular rich girl who tormented the Slayer gang in Sunnydale to a credible hero in her own right. Whedon had promised the new series would be even darker than the original, a tough guarantee to make considering Buffy had already killed her own boyfriend and blew up her high school.

Angel's creator lived up to his word, staging most of the show underground or at night and sharpening the edge on his leading man. This hero didn't have an ancient, sacred calling like the Vampire Slayer to justify his actions. Sure, he was a tortured soul fighting for redemption for two centuries of his own evil, but the old vampire was always lurking just under the surface. When things got messy, Angel spent a lot more time getting vicious and less time navel-gazing about the morality of it all then Buffy usually did..

The comparisons to the original were helped that initial season by Buffy's sudden fourth-year stumble. Since then, the shows have been moving in different directions, with Angel substantially improving every season while Buffy plummeted into last year's embarrassment. Buffy has apparently found its second wind just in time for the end of the series and can still put on a great show, as this year's "Conversations with Dead People" episode proved. But season four of Angel has been the most entertaining collection of network television hours I've seen in years.

The most impressive facet of the show is how Whedon, series co-creator David Greenwalt, and current show producer Jeffrey Bell have managed to break almost every cardinal rule for avoiding bad TV. For instance, the transformation of comic relief characters into genuine heroes. Along with the title character and Cordelia, former Buffy bit-player Wesley Wyndam-Pryce was brought onto Angel. On the old show, Wesley was an uptight, prissy Brit with a girlish scream and a penchant for fainting at the sight of blood. After a couple of years on Angel, Wesley is one of the biggest bad asses in all of primetime. The amazing thing is that the writers and actor Alexis Denisof managed to pull off this goofy-to-gallant makeover in completely convincing fashion. Compare this to the utter disaster of Buffy's Willow becoming the most powerful human on Earth, then trying to destroy it last year. The Buffy writers could have learned a thing or two about subtle character development by watching their sister show.

There don't seem to be any television clichés the writers and producers of Angel aren't willing to twist to their own advantage. Cordelia returned from another dimension earlier this year with amnesia and the result was an episode funnier than just about every sitcom on the air. It wouldn't be a fantasy show without a malevolent super-evil about to destroy the world, only this one's Cordelia's daughter and a hippie free-love guru to boot. There even was a dream episode that featured an inspired "Raiders of the Lost Ark" homage.

The biggest trap any show can fall into is the baby trap. So when it became clear Angel was going to end up a father last season, all sorts of warning bells started clanging off around the TeeVee office. The bells were quickly silenced however, once the mother, an old vampire girlfriend of Angel's, killed herself so the baby could be born. Then just as Angel started getting all sappy about his role as a new father, the boy was kidnapped by dad's pal Wesley and given to an old vampire hunter nemesis to be raised in a demon dimension. Before you could say "Holy crap," the baby reemerged from the other world as a superhuman teenager sworn to kill his father. Family Ties this isn't.

The biggest surprise here may be Boreanaz. While rarely given the kind of big emotional speeches Gellar gets to plow through almost every episode of Buffy these days, Angel's leading man manages to carry the weight of the world just as forcefully, if less verbally. The man has mastered the art and science of brooding, but is truly funny as well. Even better is his ability to go cold blooded, pretty-boy image be damned. A recent story arc had Angel reverting to his evil alter-ego Angelus for a few weeks and Boreanaz made the leap to over-the-top homicidal killer as well as anyone on the small screen this side of Joe Pantoliano.

The supporting cast is excellent as well, despite its enormous proportions. When Whedon expanded Buffy's ensemble to J.Lo-entourage size, it went straight downhill. His recent Firefly failure was probably caused by its lousy Friday night time slot, but its confusing ensemble of 256 main characters didn't help much either. Somehow each Angel character has managed to find his or her own niche, and there are very few times when someone's floating around aimlessly. These writers are every bit as sharp and funny as Buffy's and much less apt to get bogged down in the ponderous us-against-the-world monologues that seem to drag down so many Buffy episodes these days.

The writing continues to improve despite Greenwalt's departure, somehow straddling the thin line between fantastic and ridiculous. Earlier this year a giant demon made of rock visited Earth to block out the sun. On any other show, this recycled Simpsons plot would end up laughable, but with the subsequent turning of Angel to the evil Angelus, the ludicrous mixed perfectly with the dark and violent.

That continuing darkness is the real key to Angel's success. True to his word, Whedon has made this show a brilliant bit of gloom. Angel's son Connor entombed his father at the bottom of the ocean to end last season and this year began with Wesley keeping a woman chained up in his closet. Cordelia, who had an affair with Angel just starting to heat up, slept with his son and ended up giving birth to the demon to end all demons. Several of the fight scenes this year were enough to make John Woo proud, and more intense than anything else you'll see on a broadcast TV network -- 24 included. And what other show would have its leading man, the supposed champion of champions, turn into a murderous monster for month?

This is simply a brand of TV you'll not find anywhere else. While it may not pack the emotional wallop the finest early Buffy episodes, this year's Angel is more fun and better pure entertainment than its parent ever was.

Legenae · Post by **Legenae** » April 29, 2003, 1:16 am

I'll probably switch to Angel after Buffy is finished. Though I'll have to find a site that has all the episodes so I can get caught up.

VeeshanVault

Buffy the Vampire Slayer

Buffy the Vampire Slayer

Angelgeddon