Could you make this decision?

Fizzlewhip · Post by **Fizzlewhip** » April 8, 2003, 10:04 pm

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... ay/5045082

I am glad I never had to make this choice, and hope that all military that are serving never have to.

noel · Post by **noel** » April 8, 2003, 10:13 pm

I agree. It's a horrible situation to be in, but he made the completely correct decision. When you are a soldier and you are in a combat situation, your life, and the lives of your fellow soldiers/sailors/marines are the number one priority.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » April 8, 2003, 10:49 pm

I would feel better if he gave some indication that he considered an alternative before he "laid down quite a few bursts". A verbal warning or warning shots may have avoided this.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » April 8, 2003, 10:59 pm

depends on how far away he was.

I don't think I could shoot a kid. He was probably sent out there by some guy who told him that the americans would never ever shoot a kid.

these people are fighting for their homes and their sovreignity. it's probably not difficult to moralize yourself into using questionable tactics. using children is pretty depraved though.. but maybe they went out and did it on their own volition.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » April 9, 2003, 12:28 am

LOL! That is the funniest thing I have heard yet...

A VERBAL WARNING! "I mean it... I really really mean it..."

This isn't Jr.High...

It is serious though that an innocent perished in this particular ordeal. The death of a child is never a joking matter.

Marb

noel · Post by **noel** » April 9, 2003, 12:35 am

SHOOT THE HOSTAGE!

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » April 9, 2003, 12:47 am

SHOOT THE HOSTAGE

Kguku · Post by **Kguku** » April 9, 2003, 12:59 am

Marbus wrote:LOL! That is the funniest thing I have heard yet...

A VERBAL WARNING! "I mean it... I really really mean it..."

This isn't Jr.High...

It is serious though that an innocent perished in this particular ordeal. The death of a child is never a joking matter.

Marb

How about 'put the weapon down or we will open fire'.

I think that's a pretty decent verbal warning, and not something you hear in Jr High, unless if you live in Detroit or something. You shouldn't mock a verbal warning, they are very common. Be it in a work place enviroment (verbal warning before I fire your ass kind of deal), or when police deal with situations where there are firearms involved. You can find numerous events where a Verbal Warning is something other than "I mean it, I really really mean it".

Spangaloid_PE · Post by **Spangaloid_PE** » April 9, 2003, 1:02 am

Kguku wrote:
Marbus wrote:LOL! That is the funniest thing I have heard yet...

A VERBAL WARNING! "I mean it... I really really mean it..."

This isn't Jr.High...

It is serious though that an innocent perished in this particular ordeal. The death of a child is never a joking matter.

Marb
How about 'put the weapon down or we will open fire'.

I think that's a pretty decent verbal warning, and not something you hear in Jr High, unless if you live in Detroit or something. You shouldn't mock a verbal warning, they are very common. Be it in a work place enviroment (verbal warning before I fire your ass kind of deal), or when police deal with situations where there are firearms involved. You can find numerous events where a Verbal Warning is something other than "I mean it, I really really mean it".

if i read it correctly, they were kids. how many Iraqi kids do you know that speak english, or even just comprehend it?

noel · Post by **noel** » April 9, 2003, 1:09 am

Agreed. The point is, you weren't there, you don't know about distance etc.

Kguku · Post by **Kguku** » April 9, 2003, 1:11 am

Spangaloid_PE wrote:
Kguku wrote:
Marbus wrote:LOL! That is the funniest thing I have heard yet...

A VERBAL WARNING! "I mean it... I really really mean it..."

This isn't Jr.High...

It is serious though that an innocent perished in this particular ordeal. The death of a child is never a joking matter.

Marb
How about 'put the weapon down or we will open fire'.

I think that's a pretty decent verbal warning, and not something you hear in Jr High, unless if you live in Detroit or something. You shouldn't mock a verbal warning, they are very common. Be it in a work place enviroment (verbal warning before I fire your ass kind of deal), or when police deal with situations where there are firearms involved. You can find numerous events where a Verbal Warning is something other than "I mean it, I really really mean it".
if i read it correctly, they were kids. how many Iraqi kids do you know that speak english, or even just comprehend it?

Holy fuck you're a moron. First of all I was addressing Marbus' poking fun of a verbal warning, when in fact they are quite useful. Secondly, I didn't not even make a comment regarding what the soldiers should, or should not have done, but since you decided to open that gigantic maw you call a mouth I will make a comment on it.

The soldiers in question could have easily given a verbal warning, regardless of said kids knowing english. Though, how are we to knowt hey were not educated in the english language? Do all middle easterners to you not understand a word of english? Are you truely this much of a fuckin retard that you feel the need to make yourself look like more and more of an idiot with each post you spew out?

I turned a blind eye to your obvious baiting of the Missles = WOMD. But it's good to know that the US Military has the employee of wankers like you. I really feel sorry for your fellow brothers in arms that have to put up with your shit on a daily basis.

Spangaloid_PE · Post by **Spangaloid_PE** » April 9, 2003, 1:24 am

they were fucking kids. i never said anything about all middle easterners not knowing how to speak english.

just to make myself look more like an idiot, this aint a hollywood movie, you don't fire warnig shots. wouldn't it suck if your warning shot killed someone?

Fizzlewhip · Post by **Fizzlewhip** » April 9, 2003, 1:29 am

When I was there, we were taught how to say :

Stop. Don't move. I will shoot

In Arabic. Same thing while I was in Bosnia.

However, with all the noise of a battlefield, and with the necessity of making split second decisions, I don't think they had much other choice. Not only that, but giving such a verbal warning might have given away thier exact position, thus negating the use of cover when firing. (IE: just becuase you know where the bullets are coming from, in a general sense, you don't necessarily know EXACTLY where they are coming from. However a shout would have given a more direct location.).

I have had to fire my weapon. I am not sure if I Hit anyone. Even that act is not as "noble" as it seems. You really have to consider the fact that you are taking a human life.

Spangaloid_PE · Post by **Spangaloid_PE** » April 9, 2003, 1:34 am

Fizzlewhip wrote:When I was there, we were taught how to say :

Stop. Don't move. I will shoot

In Arabic. Same thing while I was in Bosnia.

However, with all the noise of a battlefield, and with the necessity of making split second decisions, I don't think they had much other choice. Not only that, but giving such a verbal warning might have given away thier exact position, thus negating the use of cover when firing. (IE: just becuase you know where the bullets are coming from, in a general sense, you don't necessarily know EXACTLY where they are coming from. However a shout would have given a more direct location.).

I have had to fire my weapon. I am not sure if I Hit anyone. Even that act is not as "noble" as it seems. You really have to consider the fact that you are taking a human life.

good point. noise and light discipline is key, not to mention muzzle awareness.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » April 9, 2003, 1:59 am

Fizzlewhip wrote:When I was there, we were taught how to say :

Stop. Don't move. I will shoot

In Arabic. Same thing while I was in Bosnia.

However, with all the noise of a battlefield, and with the necessity of making split second decisions, I don't think they had much other choice. Not only that, but giving such a verbal warning might have given away thier exact position, thus negating the use of cover when firing. (IE: just becuase you know where the bullets are coming from, in a general sense, you don't necessarily know EXACTLY where they are coming from. However a shout would have given a more direct location.).

I have had to fire my weapon. I am not sure if I Hit anyone. Even that act is not as "noble" as it seems. You really have to consider the fact that you are taking a human life.

wait a minute. you served in the gulf?!

VariaVespasa · Post by **VariaVespasa** » April 9, 2003, 6:06 am

The article does say the range was several hundred feet, and unfortunately at that range and with the noise of your own engines to deal with as well a verbal warning is hard to do.

That would explain the several bursts thing too, since best I know those guns arent that accurate over those kinda ranges except in a general way (you can splatter bullets all over a 10 x 10 area, but you cant do 2 inch groups), so youre gonna need quite a lot of shots to be sure of hitting a small target in a hurry, and when the other guy has an rpg you're definitely in a hurry.

*Hugs*
Varia

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » April 9, 2003, 6:13 am

Forthe wrote:I would feel better if he gave some indication that he considered an alternative before he "laid down quite a few bursts". A verbal warning or warning shots may have avoided this.

Fizzlewhip · Post by **Fizzlewhip** » April 9, 2003, 11:30 am

Suddenly, two boys no older than 10 darted from an alley.

''I got my gun up. I had my sights on'' the RPG said Boggs, who was armed with a machine gun that spits out 600 rounds a minute.

''I didn't shoot. I didn't shoot,'' Boggs said.

Then the child reached down and grabbed the RPG.

Looks like he was trying to think of an alternative. At least he feels bad about it. Like he said in the interview, anyone who doesn't feel bad about shooting kids is wrong in the head.

Hell, anyone who doesn't feel bad about shooting a living human being is a little off. Even in self defense, which I support, you still are removing a person, someone loved that person, someone depended upon that person.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » April 9, 2003, 11:32 am

How about 'put the weapon down or we will open fire'.

They are soldiers, not cops. It's a combat zone.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » April 9, 2003, 11:35 am

Fallanthas wrote:
How about 'put the weapon down or we will open fire'.
They are soldiers, not cops. It's a combat zone.

In a residential area.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » April 9, 2003, 11:42 am

Forthe wrote:
Fallanthas wrote:
How about 'put the weapon down or we will open fire'.
They are soldiers, not cops. It's a combat zone.
In a residential area.

So What!! its still a Combat zone.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » April 9, 2003, 12:12 pm

This is gonna haunt this poor soldier the rest of his life most likely.
By doing this however, who knows how many coalition lives he's saved.

Sadly, anyone with a weapon in a situation like that is a potential enemy. wether it be children or seniors.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » April 9, 2003, 1:20 pm

OOOOKKKK... first lets think about the situation, that was my point.

Has anyone ever been near an Abrhams while running? If not, they are quite loud, not to mention with the headsets and gunfire I'm sure the commander could hear very little coming from the street.

A verbal warning is used, every day in Police work but that is before people are shooting at you.

It's possible too though that lack of sleep due to a large RFP caused me to just think Forthe's post was much funnier than it truly was... the picture in my mind was of someone trying to make a soldier take a "time-out" or something. Heh, at least now everyone has a little more insight into my exhausted existence ATM.

Marb

Xzion · Post by **Xzion** » April 9, 2003, 2:11 pm

I dont care how old or how young or of what sex person you are, but if you pick up an RPG and start to aim that shit at me and i have a machine gun, your ass is going down no questions asked