more confirmed kills for the air force

Braxter · Post by **Braxter** » April 2, 2003, 6:03 am

miir,

is there any evidence which supports your claim that Israeli pilots are more skilled than American ones? Would be great reading if you can supply links.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » April 2, 2003, 6:37 am

It's hard to get data on who's countries have the best fighters anymore because the USAF stopped flying in international competitions in the 90s for some reason. Now the USAF decides who gets Top Gun honors as the best pilots and ground crews in the world by flying among themselves.

However, previous international events usually had the US, Canada and Israel come out on top for dog fighting and such. They are the 3 countries that all use F-18 variants, which have pretty much been the best multi-purpose fighter jet in the world. The competition has always been pretty close, with Canadian pilots winning the last time it was done. Actually during the gulf war the CF-18 was the most modern aircraft in the coalition fleet with something like 110 upgrades and improvements over the US variant. Nowadays however, air power has advanced quite a bit over the last 12 years and our jets aren't so modern anymore. But they still hold up pretty well for a 40 year old air frame.

The British and the French have some great pilots as well but the harrier and mirage aren't quite the machine the F-18 is. The only jet that could really hold a candle is the MiG 29 Fulcrum and naturally the soviet union was never invited to many NATO/Allied events. Iraq used to have a large number of Fulcrums but they were hardly even given a chance to leave the runways during the gulf war because the airstrips and hangars were hit so quickly by cruise missiles.

There are other events where the Americans can't be touched. As far as mobility goes there's no comparison (and aircrews from different countries also compete for that as well), and there really isn't a country that can compete with the US's ability to locate and destroy armored vehicles. The A-10 doesn't even have a competitor worth mentioning in that arena, and I don't think the US sold any to Israel.

A country's air power isn't really dependent on who has the best pilots anymore. Technology and logistics are far more important, but it would be nice to see the international top gun competitions again for nothing else than bragging rights.

I think the united states still competes in the Airlift Rodeo every year but that's about it. And of course Xanupox wins best airborne super sniper yearly.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » April 2, 2003, 6:44 am

Also, I thought the 2nd longest confirmed sniper kill was from an American marine in Vietnam. I can't remember his name offhand, but he wrote a book about being a sniper that I read a few years ago. The shot he made was some incredible distance that surpassed the maximum effective range of the rifle he was using.

edit: looking at my bookshelf his name his eric england and the book is called 'The Phantom of Phu Bai.' I don't think you can buy it anymore but if someone wants to borrow mine they can private message me.. It's a pretty good book.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » April 2, 2003, 6:47 am

Phugg_Innay wrote:At least we are trying to fight a Fair fight , unlike the otherside which is using civilian populations as mortars

ROFL! The Iraqi army is loading their civilians into cannons and firing them at us?

Even if you meant to say martyrs it is incorrect. hahahahhahahahahah.

I feel so.... superior.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » April 2, 2003, 6:52 am

yeah you laugh it up until its your son that gets hit and killed by a flying iraqi-bomb.

Hoarmurath · Post by **Hoarmurath** » April 2, 2003, 11:45 am

kyoukan type-R wrote:Also, I thought the 2nd longest confirmed sniper kill was from an American marine in Vietnam. I can't remember his name offhand, but he wrote a book about being a sniper that I read a few years ago.

I think maybe you're referring to Carlos Hathcock? He held the record for the longest shot until sometime last year I think. A Canadian topped the record, and then another Canadian a week or two later topped it again, both in Afghanistan.

*edit: Duh I read your response to yourself *after* I posted...maybe I should have coffee first...anyway for some reason I have an interest in these kinds of things so I'll check out my facts to make sure I'm not full of crap.

Fizzlewhip · Post by **Fizzlewhip** » April 2, 2003, 1:33 pm

Since we are tallying Friendly fire kills, perhaps you should chalk these two upto the british :

Trooper David Jeffrey Clarke
19
Queen's Royal Lancers
Littleworth, England
Killed when his tank was struck by a shell from another British tank on March 25, 2003

Cpl. Stephen John Allbutt
35
Queen's Royal Lancers
Stoke-on-Trent, England
Killed when his tank was struck by a shell from another British tank on March 25, 2003

Still, the greater amount of FF comes from American forces. Course the greater amount of troops and munitions is the American forces as well.

Fizzlewhip · Post by **Fizzlewhip** » April 2, 2003, 1:35 pm

As for Israeli pilots better than american, i have heard that too, I just can't remember the link.

Post by **Sylvus** » April 2, 2003, 2:07 pm

The U.S. has that song "Danger Zone" for their fighter pilots, next you'll tell me there's an Israeli Kenny Loggins?

Advantage U.S.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » April 2, 2003, 2:44 pm

Israeli pilots are awesome. They also have had a lot of practice in real situations, which beat out simulations etc bigtime. Of course, Israeli pilots also had to sit in their planes with engines warmed up ready to go at a minute's notice for quite a few years..

It's very hard to compare pilots though. I know Norwegian pilots did extremely well in any exercises in mountain areas due to their practice in these terrains. Hell every day is a practice of flying in mountains in Norway. I know a while back (cant' remember when but it is quite a while) they beat Americans in these terrains. But then again, put them in neutral terrain and who knows?

Of course our F-16s are also getting old.. oh so old..

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » April 2, 2003, 3:07 pm

I am fairly certain that we sent Kenny Loggins to Israel free with the purchase of a Patriot missile battery. Canada was offering Bryan Adams with the purchase of a 12 pack of Molsons (in bottles), but so far no one has shown interest.

Acies · Post by **Acies** » April 2, 2003, 4:34 pm

If I fight for you, will I get to kill the English?

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » April 2, 2003, 7:51 pm

I am fairly certain that we sent Kenny Loggins to Israel free with the purchase of a Patriot missile battery. Canada was offering Bryan Adams with the purchase of a 12 pack of Molsons (in bottles), but so far no one has shown interest.

Actually it was 24 of Molson Triple X and he was gone except Gore lost the election

noel · Post by **noel** » April 2, 2003, 7:52 pm

Acies wrote:If I fight for you, will I get to kill the English?

Hehe...

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » April 3, 2003, 9:53 am

Aranuil wrote:
Acies wrote:If I fight for you, will I get to kill the English?
Hehe...

????? What Movie????
Patriot?
Braveheart?

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » April 3, 2003, 10:58 am

Braveheart.

The loon who was the king of Ireland, can't remember the characters name.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » April 3, 2003, 11:38 am

It's MY island!

And the one that fits Fallanthas the best: "He's not right in the head, you know"

noel · Post by **noel** » April 3, 2003, 1:08 pm

Fallanthas wrote:Braveheart.

The loon who was the king of Ireland, can't remember the characters name.

There's a difference between the two movies?

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » April 3, 2003, 1:27 pm

There's a difference between the two movies?

Yep.

Would you prefer to carry a gun or an axe today, Mr Gibson?

Other than that, not much.

Jugata · Post by **Jugata** » April 3, 2003, 7:31 pm

How many americans killed by brits so far?

Fizzlewhip · Post by **Fizzlewhip** » April 3, 2003, 7:37 pm

only 1 so far that has been reported. Mind you, the british tend not to get as caught up in the rush, or at least they give that appearance.

Killed when two british helicopters collided. It was an accident, and not a result of friendly fire. He was an exchange officer assigned to the 849th squadron.

Acies · Post by **Acies** » April 3, 2003, 9:26 pm

The lord says he can get me out of this mess, but he's pretty sure...
Your fucked.
hahHAHAHAhahaHA

Hehehe, love that crazy Irish. And Steven is his name, and he is the most wanted man on his island!

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » April 4, 2003, 2:40 pm

The US military lately seems like it relies too much on technology, brute force and superior numbers..... but I could be wrong, that's jsut my perception.

Zerg?

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » April 4, 2003, 3:04 pm

Fizzlewhip wrote:As for Israeli pilots better than american, i have heard that too, I just can't remember the link.

FWIW, My dad was an F-4 Phantom II fighter pilot during the Vietnam years and up until the late 70's. After the war, he flew around with tactical nukes on alert in europe and then became an instructor pilot for international squadrons of F-4 pilots in air combat. In that capacity, he had a lot of exposure to pilots of several nations. He always said that the Israeli pilots were the best.

I'm sure there are some articles on the web to back this up but I don't have time to find them. That was in the 80's. Perhaps things have changed since then.