So the Pope is against this war

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » March 26, 2003, 5:48 pm

I'm the first one to really give a flying foo-schnick about religious opinion, but I can't help but wonder what influence the Pope's holy word has on hardcore Catholics.

Or, what if our president was Catholic? Seems like it would be quite a conflict. A "damed if you do and damned if you don't" sort of situation. However, seems only one of those would be literally damning if that is what you professed to believe.

I'd really want to hear the opinion of a Catholic that supports the war but ignores the Pope.

Just curious. It's a pretty fucked up situation regardless.

Toshira · Post by **Toshira** » March 26, 2003, 6:04 pm

Actually, there was an email circulation going around before the war started thata suggested to the mighty pontiff that if he wanted to follow Jesus' example, he would go to Baghdad and stay there to prevent the war (can you see the U.S. carpet bombing the pope? I think not.)

Anyhoo.

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » March 26, 2003, 6:21 pm

Hmm.. I'm catholic. Never denied this. In my teens to up to recently, I pretty much considered myself an atheist however after some self-exploration I've come to realise otherwise.

I believe that the pope is a man to be respected, however, his views and opinions are rather skewed(sorry spelling) towards the teachings of the bible(obviously) and I don't believe that any of the arguments FOR the war would change his mind about this. It is true that people dying is a bad thing overall regardless of their faith however if few die so more can live free then a noble sacrifice it will be.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » March 26, 2003, 6:29 pm

Animalor---

Yeah, but don't Catholics pretty much have to do whatver he Pope suggests since he is, you know, the voice of God and all?

I'm not really sure how it all works out in Catholic teachings, but I'm pretty sure you're not just suppossed to think he's a swell guy, but you also have to take him seriously as the mouth piece of God.

If I sound sarcastic, that's not my intent. I'm just really curious. How can his opinion be so easily batted aside by so many that claim to be of the Catholic religion? I'd think more people would uphold his stance, or at the very least, talk about it more. So far, it's been rather ho-hum from US Catholics which I find surprising.

Ceredwin · Post by **Ceredwin** » March 26, 2003, 6:44 pm

This is a matter of his own opinion, that he has asked us Catholics to pray upon. It is not a matter of faith that we must agree to.

I dont know of anyone who does not take war seriously and who are religious that do pray few lives are lost. This would be similar to the death penalty, which the Pope is against, but acknowleges that the state has a right to enact to protect the people. You can disagree and still be a good Catholic.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » March 26, 2003, 6:44 pm

American Catholics have been a "thorn" in the Pope's side for years. They have openly disagreed with him and protested against his birth control policy. Then last year there was all the stuff about the Priest and the little boys... I doubt too many American Catholics are that worried. At one time I think the Pope was seen truly as God's representative here on Earth. However I think with all the secular influences in the US he is seen now as a VERY Holy, Honorable man who is the leader of the Church. I'm not Catholic but spent 3 years working on some youth retreats a few years back. The Priests and people I worked with were very different than my Parent's Catholic friends from the previous generation, especially in regard to Papal edicts.

Marb

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 26, 2003, 6:47 pm

the pope isn't the voice of god, he is an elected spiritual leader with a lot of influence. he has direct control over the cardinals who control the bishops who control the church who influence their flock.

also the further away from the vatican you go the less influence he has. he's also lost a lot of credibility in the american catholic church for letting pedo priests get away with molesting children.

Spangaloid_PE · Post by **Spangaloid_PE** » March 26, 2003, 6:54 pm

they need to let priests have intercourse with women. they let em smoke n' drink, but the lack of a nice piece of ass is prolly why they fondle kids all the damn time.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » March 27, 2003, 7:22 am

Well being English I'm programmed to distrust papist propaganda!

But on a personal level I've little tolerance for religious bullshit of any flavour, or any kind of zeal in a similar vein. And the Catholic church is replete with religious bullshit but unfortunately about 1 billion people think he's the voice of god on earth or wtf ever

So basically I can't give a crap what he thinks when I believe most of what he stands for is anachronistic bullshit anyway. And seeing as we can't have any discussion about this war without referencing WW2 - we all remember where the Catholic churches moral backbone was back then. . .nowhere to be found.

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » March 27, 2003, 10:54 am

vn_Tanc wrote:Well being English I'm programmed to distrust papist propaganda!

But on a personal level I've little tolerance for religious bullshit of any flavour, or any kind of zeal in a similar vein. And the Catholic church is replete with religious bullshit but unfortunately about 1 billion people think he's the voice of god on earth or wtf ever
So basically I can't give a crap what he thinks when I believe most of what he stands for is anachronistic bullshit anyway. And seeing as we can't have any discussion about this war without referencing WW2 - we all remember where the Catholic churches moral backbone was back then. . .nowhere to be found.

Catholic schools are teh own~

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » March 27, 2003, 11:24 am

Gurugurumaki wrote:
vn_Tanc wrote:Well being English I'm programmed to distrust papist propaganda!

But on a personal level I've little tolerance for religious bullshit of any flavour, or any kind of zeal in a similar vein. And the Catholic church is replete with religious bullshit but unfortunately about 1 billion people think he's the voice of god on earth or wtf ever
So basically I can't give a crap what he thinks when I believe most of what he stands for is anachronistic bullshit anyway. And seeing as we can't have any discussion about this war without referencing WW2 - we all remember where the Catholic churches moral backbone was back then. . .nowhere to be found.
Catholic schools are teh own~

Nonono catholic school girls are teh own

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » March 27, 2003, 11:30 am

Pherr the Dorf wrote: Nonono catholic school girls are teh own

I would have agreed with you six years ago, but now that my daughter is going to a catholic school. I am vetoing that statement~

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » March 27, 2003, 11:35 am

Trek · Post by **Trek** » March 27, 2003, 11:56 am

Spangaloid_PE wrote:they need to let priests have intercourse with women. they let em smoke n' drink, but the lack of a nice piece of ass is prolly why they fondle kids all the damn time.

No, if it was just a case of needing a piece of ass....they would go get a piece of ass, not molest a child.

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » March 27, 2003, 11:58 am

Trek wrote:
Spangaloid_PE wrote:they need to let priests have intercourse with women. they let em smoke n' drink, but the lack of a nice piece of ass is prolly why they fondle kids all the damn time.
No, if it was just a case of needing a piece of ass....they would go get a piece of ass, not molest a child.

I've always though Catholic priests were a little screwey. I went to a catholic school my whole life, and could never understand why someone would want to make that their profession. To each their own, just don't touch my kids or I will PK them~

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » March 27, 2003, 1:28 pm

The real power of the catholic church doesn't really lie with the pope but with the Cardinals I believe.

Since the main belief of the Catholic church is monotheistic, the 1 god, then having a body of people making the decisions would be completely absurd, hence they elect one of their own(i believe) as a figurehead.

The stance of the catholic church on issues is based on the message of love, peace, value of human life and understanding that the Bible promotes.

As for the Pope's word being the word of god and all catholic having to believe what he says...

People have free will and in my opinion, even though the belong to that instution, have a responsibility to draw their own conclusion as to what they think is right. Wether they choose to use the Church's guideline to make that choice is their own concern, however I won't let a spiritual bureaucrat guide my choices.

As for the state of the Catholic priesthood, I believe that 1000 to 1250 years ago, priests COULD marry. One of the reigning popes at that time decreed as catholic law that priests would have to remain celibate from then on. (I got this information from my fiancee, who used to work a summer job as a tour guide at the Pope's Museum http://www.museedespapes.com/source/frame.htm.)
I'll do a bit more research and get back to you guys with some information on this last paragraph.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » March 27, 2003, 1:31 pm

I got to get there the girls wear the Brittany Spears outfit

Animalor · Post by **Animalor** » March 27, 2003, 1:37 pm

I remember my gf in one of those. =P She was HAWT!(Still is)

Here's the bit of history I found on http://www.patriarchywebsite.com.

www.patriarchywebsite.com wrote: CATHOLIC PRIESTS WERE MONOGAMOUS AND POLYGAMOUS BUT MADE CELIBATE
Due to the widespread illiteracy of the scriptures, especially that of the Gentile believers who were totally ignorant of the Torah, whatever the Catholic priests said were considered as God’s Law and divine truths. One area of total distortion was that of marital relationship. Surprising to almost all of us, it was common for Catholic priests to have multiple wives and mistresses. In 726AD, it was acceptable for a man with a sick wife to take a second wife so long as he looked after the first one. With concerns for protecting Church property from inheritance however, offspring could not inherit church property and it was later declared that all sons of priests were illegitimate. In 1022, Pope Benedict VIII banned marriages for priests (monogamous or polygamous). Finally in 1139, Pope Innocent II voided all marriages of priests and all new priests had to divorce their wives. All these were done to possess and protect money and church property. Making polygamy a sin and marriage unacceptable for a priest was a slow and purposeful process.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · Post by **Midnyte_Ragebringer** » March 27, 2003, 1:44 pm

I think the Pope can shove his opinions up his ass.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » March 27, 2003, 1:48 pm

Animalor wrote:I remember my gf in one of those. =P She was HAWT!(Still is)

Here's the bit of history I found on http://www.patriarchywebsite.com.

www.patriarchywebsite.com wrote: CATHOLIC PRIESTS WERE MONOGAMOUS AND POLYGAMOUS BUT MADE CELIBATE
Due to the widespread illiteracy of the scriptures, especially that of the Gentile believers who were totally ignorant of the Torah, whatever the Catholic priests said were considered as God’s Law and divine truths. One area of total distortion was that of marital relationship. Surprising to almost all of us, it was common for Catholic priests to have multiple wives and mistresses. In 726AD, it was acceptable for a man with a sick wife to take a second wife so long as he looked after the first one. With concerns for protecting Church property from inheritance however, offspring could not inherit church property and it was later declared that all sons of priests were illegitimate. In 1022, Pope Benedict VIII banned marriages for priests (monogamous or polygamous). Finally in 1139, Pope Innocent II voided all marriages of priests and all new priests had to divorce their wives. All these were done to possess and protect money and church property. Making polygamy a sin and marriage unacceptable for a priest was a slow and purposeful process.

Umm Pics please Pics Please

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » March 27, 2003, 1:48 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:I think the Pope can shove his opinions up his ass.

Or a Alter Boy's

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » March 27, 2003, 1:52 pm

Cartalas wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:I think the Pope can shove his opinions up his ass.
Or a Alter Boy's

Watch it on that one!! I was an alter boy for several years in grade school. It got me out of class

Sabek · Post by **Sabek** » March 27, 2003, 2:11 pm

Gurugurumaki wrote:
Cartalas wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:I think the Pope can shove his opinions up his ass.
Or a Alter Boy's
Watch it on that one!! I was an alter boy for several years in grade school. It got me out of class

And little guru is scarred for life now because of it.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 27, 2003, 2:53 pm

I went to a catholic private school. Man I hated it.

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » March 27, 2003, 2:55 pm

kyoukan type-R wrote:I went to a catholic private school. Man I hated it.

YEA, and why? Also, all catholics schools are private eh~

Raistin · Post by **Raistin** » March 27, 2003, 3:01 pm

"These pulpit killers that go around saying that the Bible says that man dare not kill causes the death of many thousands of good soldiers. Damn little those pulpit killers know about the Bible. They know even less about the way God works.
They should read all of the Bible, not just the part they like! God never hesitated to kill. God never hesitates to kill when one man or any race of man needed to be punished. God helped David kill Goliath, didn't he? How about Noah and the Ark? All of the rest of the people were killed in the flood! God took the blame for this mass murder. How about the Red Sea which opened up long enough for one race to escape and another race to be killed. Don't talk to me about God not permitting man to kill. War means that we have to kill people. That's all there is to it. It is a sin not to kill if we are serving on God's side.

There is no other way to win. Wars must be won for God's sake. He has a part in every war! The quicker we can kill the enemy, the quicker we can go home and listen to the pulpit killers tell us what we did wrong. If it wasn't for us, those pulpit idiots would be shot for standing in their own pulpits. Our task is to kill the enemy before we are killed."...

Name that quote!

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » March 27, 2003, 3:10 pm

Old Testament is pure hate man.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 27, 2003, 3:16 pm

well the government doesnt pay to subsidize religious schools so they are paid for by the church and by tuition.

I'm not catholic myself but I did get to leave the school after graduation with an even lower opinion of the catholic church than when I started!

Also, the girls from the mega hardcore catholic families were fucking sexual deviants even at 16-17. I wonder why that is? I think it's all the guilt. But man, some of those girls would fuck a hobo.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » March 27, 2003, 3:17 pm

kyoukan type-R wrote:I went to a catholic private school. Man I hated it.

Did you wear the little Skirt

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » March 27, 2003, 3:22 pm

kyoukan type-R wrote:well the government doesnt pay to subsidize religious schools so they are paid for by the church and by tuition.

I'm not catholic myself but I did get to leave the school after graduation with an even lower opinion of the catholic church than when I started!

Also, the girls from the mega hardcore catholic families were fucking sexual deviants even at 16-17. I wonder why that is? I think it's all the guilt. But man, some of those girls would fuck a hobo.

I would say it depends on a few things:

The catholic school I went to was not die-hard. We had a uniform and mass regularly during school, but it wasnt pushed down our throats. Also, if the parents are die-hard catholics (boderline christians), then I can see the rebellion waiting to happen. We pay for our school as well, yearly it was 4k per year, church dues not included.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » March 27, 2003, 3:36 pm

The Priest's being celebate stems from the belief that Jesus never married and that sex is somehow "impure." Fact is Jesus could have been married, some of the more recent findings actually indicate that, and it really wouldn't matter in what I consider a true understanding of the New Testament. I see no reason why they can't marry, it's a stuipd archaic belief IMHO. Marraige is a sacrament in the Church, they should be able to fulfill that.

Marb

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » March 27, 2003, 3:40 pm

Marbus wrote:The Priest's being celebate stems from the belief that Jesus never married and that sex is somehow "impure." Fact is Jesus could have been married, some of the more recent findings actually indicate that, and it really wouldn't matter in what I consider a true understanding of the New Testament. I see no reason why they can't marry, it's a stuipd archaic belief IMHO. Marraige is a sacrament in the Church, they should be able to fulfill that.

Marb

Everyone will be a deacon in the next several years, that way they can marry...whether female or male(for teh ghey ones).

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 27, 2003, 5:14 pm

Cartalas wrote:Did you wear the little Skirt

its a kilt. and yes.

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » March 27, 2003, 5:15 pm

kyoukan type-R wrote:
Cartalas wrote:Did you wear the little Skirt
its a kilt. and yes.

Its a jumper damnit....a jumper!

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 27, 2003, 5:17 pm

Marbus wrote:The Priest's being celebate stems from the belief that Jesus never married and that sex is somehow "impure." Fact is Jesus could have been married, some of the more recent findings actually indicate that, and it really wouldn't matter in what I consider a true understanding of the New Testament. I see no reason why they can't marry, it's a stuipd archaic belief IMHO. Marraige is a sacrament in the Church, they should be able to fulfill that.

Marb

actually it was just some random pope a few centuries ago that decided that they can't marry any longer, because priests were marrying and having children and leaving property behind to their kids instead of to the church. so pope greedius hypocratus IV or whoever took away priests right to marry or have a family and own property or money.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » March 27, 2003, 5:17 pm

kyoukan type-R wrote:
Cartalas wrote:Did you wear the little Skirt
its a kilt. and yes.

Nice

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » March 27, 2003, 6:36 pm

All the people I know that went to a private Catholic School were really fucked in the head. I'm not saying that Catholic School was the reason, but I would rank it as a contributing factor. I'm not sure what parents hope to accomplish by sending them to a Catholic School. Kids hate church. Kids hate school. HEY LET'S PUT THEM BOTH TOGETHER BECAUSE THAT IDEA WOULD BE A REALLY GOOD ONE!!!11!1

At least, that was my take on the whole situation

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » March 27, 2003, 6:41 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:All the people I know that went to a private Catholic School were really fucked in the head. I'm not saying that Catholic School was the reason, but I would rank it as a contributing factor. I'm not sure what parents hope to accomplish by sending them to a Catholic School. Kids hate church. Kids hate school. HEY LET'S PUT THEM BOTH TOGETHER BECAUSE THAT IDEA WOULD BE A REALLY GOOD ONE!!!11!1

At least, that was my take on the whole situation

Church was lame on Sunday, but most of the people I went to school with enjoyed it. I guess its what you make of it. And it is a good idea, the public schools where I live suck a big nut, practically no discipline what so ever. If you fuck up at a catholic school you get the boot, hence you don't fuck up. I don't want to hear the rebutal it lies with the parents. If public schools allow you to get away with tardiness, unexcused absenses, etc...you will take advantage of it. Minus the nerdy people, and yes you know who I'm talking about.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » March 27, 2003, 6:45 pm

I went to catholic school. But it was an excellent school as well. I would send my kids there in a heartbeat even though i'm an atheist. i think learning about christianity is good for an understanding of our culture.

Spangaloid_PE · Post by **Spangaloid_PE** » March 27, 2003, 7:03 pm

Trek wrote:
Spangaloid_PE wrote:they need to let priests have intercourse with women. they let em smoke n' drink, but the lack of a nice piece of ass is prolly why they fondle kids all the damn time.
No, if it was just a case of needing a piece of ass....they would go get a piece of ass, not molest a child.

they're not aloud to.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » March 27, 2003, 7:17 pm

kyoukan type-R wrote:Also, the girls from the mega hardcore catholic families were fucking sexual deviants even at 16-17. I wonder why that is? I think it's all the guilt. But man, some of those girls would fuck a hobo.

Sometimes even younger. Every summer when I was in college, the Catholic school kids would come visit their friends/siblings, and they'd fucking lose their minds. There was this one girl, 15, who fucked 3-4 different guys EVERY night for almost a month. Funny part is both her and her sister seemed suprised that she got knocked up and contracted chlamydia. That was the same summer I saw my first drug OD.

Adelrune Argenti · Post by **Adelrune Argenti** » March 27, 2003, 7:24 pm

masteen wrote:
kyoukan type-R wrote:Also, the girls from the mega hardcore catholic families were fucking sexual deviants even at 16-17. I wonder why that is? I think it's all the guilt. But man, some of those girls would fuck a hobo.
Sometimes even younger. Every summer when I was in college, the Catholic school kids would come visit their friends/siblings, and they'd fucking lose their minds. There was this one girl, 15, who fucked 3-4 different guys EVERY night for almost a month. Funny part is both her and her sister seemed suprised that she got knocked up and contracted chlamydia. That was the same summer I saw my first drug OD.

You gotta wonder about what was going on at home in those cases... abuse anyone? That is not normal behavior by far.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » March 27, 2003, 7:34 pm

I just figured they came from such a repressive home that they had no ability to cope with an environment where sex and drugs are openly available.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » March 28, 2003, 8:16 am

Of the 4 girls I know who went to Catholic schools:
1 is anorexic and has been struggling with the disease for over 10 years
1 committed suicide in her 20s
The other two are neurotic nymphomaniacs. Kyo's "fuck a hobo" line really sums it up.
It seems to be a theme ><

I reckon that much repression, especially in terms of sexuality, is gonna do nothing but fuck you up.

Sorry Guru

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » March 28, 2003, 10:10 am

vn_Tanc wrote:Of the 4 girls I know who went to Catholic schools:
1 is anorexic and has been struggling with the disease for over 10 years
1 committed suicide in her 20s
The other two are neurotic nymphomaniacs. Kyo's "fuck a hobo" line really sums it up.
It seems to be a theme ><

I reckon that much repression, especially in terms of sexuality, is gonna do nothing but fuck you up.

Sorry Guru

Well I guess it all about location. Where I live, people are normal.

retiredwikit · Post by **retiredwikit** » March 28, 2003, 10:13 am

What do you define as "normal"

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » March 28, 2003, 10:15 am

retiredwikit wrote:What do you define as "normal"

In pharmin terms or RL?

retiredwikit · Post by **retiredwikit** » March 28, 2003, 10:19 am

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » March 28, 2003, 10:37 am

retiredwikit wrote:RL

Ill describe my high school. I would say the athletes were tight knit, with the popular girls. Sure the girls liked to have sex, but mainly in relationships only...VERY few one nighters. The girls and boys enjoyed drinking and occasional pot. But nothing that would be considered astronomical. When your particular sport season would be up, drinking dropped off dramitically to focus on whats important at the time. Academics was the number 1 priority and was taken very seriously...not to the point of studying every night for 5 hours, but seriously enough to maintain a B avg (speaking for everyone in general). At my school if you were tardy and truent, you would have to pay the piper. If you continue to get introuble, your ass is gone. That is why no one fucked with the system, because it works. To this day, I would not classify anyone I know from my high school...anywhere close to Tanc's description. Sure we had some gays, druggies, i.e. losers...but I guess where I live they would be considered cool losers, /shrug

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » March 28, 2003, 10:43 am

/shrug I'm just reciting the history of some girls I know that went to a catholic all-girls school.
They were normal when they went in and fucked up when they came out (I'd known two of them and their families since the I was 9). From the stories they told their experiences weren't anything like unusual either.