Name that Quote

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » March 25, 2003, 5:28 pm

“Why of course the people don’t want war. ... That is understood. But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship ...Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”

Burke · Post by **Burke** » March 25, 2003, 5:31 pm

Goebbels? (probably mispelled)

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » March 25, 2003, 5:32 pm

oooooooooooo nope

Neost · Post by **Neost** » March 25, 2003, 5:33 pm

HINT:

It was said in 1946.....

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » March 25, 2003, 5:33 pm

True dat
and yes I am pharming my own post

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » March 25, 2003, 5:38 pm

Stalin?

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » March 25, 2003, 5:38 pm

Stalin?>

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » March 25, 2003, 5:39 pm

Nope nope, but you guys are on the right track

/pharm on!

Vetiria · Post by **Vetiria** » March 25, 2003, 5:40 pm

Hermann Goering

The whole quote:

Hermann Goering wrote:Why, of course, the people don't want war," Goering shrugged. "Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » March 25, 2003, 5:44 pm

/em hands Vetiria a cupie doll

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » March 25, 2003, 5:59 pm

"C is for cookie and thats good enough for me"

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » March 25, 2003, 6:09 pm

Gurugurumaki wrote:"C is for cookie and thats good enough for me"

i gave that toy to my nephew last christmas

3 more songs, besides that one: "Elmo Song", "I Love Trash", and "Rubber Ducky"

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » March 25, 2003, 6:12 pm

Voronwë wrote:
Gurugurumaki wrote:"C is for cookie and thats good enough for me"
i gave that toy to my nephew last christmas

3 more songs, besides that one: "Elmo Song", "I Love Trash", and "Rubber Ducky"

/shivers at the Elmo Song, that is fokin annoying. HAHAHAHAHA
...anything dirty and dingy and dusty!

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » March 25, 2003, 6:13 pm

C is for cookie is obviously the cookie monster

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 25, 2003, 6:15 pm

Goering was a bad ass.

...except for that whole nazi thing.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » March 25, 2003, 6:16 pm

kyoukan type-R wrote:Goering was a bad ass.

...except for that whole nazi thing.

I know that nazi things prolly gonna haunt him in the history books, maybe even more then Clinton's blowjob

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » March 26, 2003, 2:58 am

Out of all the Nazis I think he was probably the most respected or at least the best at bull shit. He is one of the few if not only War criminal tried but never killed as "someone", probably an American GI, slipped him a rope to hang himself to keep from getting humliated.

Nazis could have had a good thing going, goes to show their is a fine line between Genius and Lunacy. I'm convinced there were men of both in the party at one time but obviously the Lunacy won out. You just can't kill millions of people and not expect someone to come kick your ass - karma's a bitch. By time WW2 started though it was too late to save anyone... actually it was probably too late after the purging of the party or "Night of the Long Knives." I spoke once at length to a woman who was a teenager during the 20s, a friends grandmother. Having a love of history it was a wondeful experience to hear from someone who was actually there. Reading US History books just dosen't give you the same understanding of how things happened and how rumors can be overlooked when the media is in total control. I truly believe that 99% of all civilians didn't know what was happening until they were faced with the reality after the Germany's defeat. And with that statement I'm sure Miir will draw some parallels to our current situation... of course I'll have to disagree though

Last thing about Germany, and it's relevance to the current situation. I have heard some argue that it was our, the USs, fault for keeping Saddam in power by helping him in the Iranian war. While I disagree because we were actually helping both sides, it's a plausable arguement. Along those same lines, was it not Britian, the United States and espeically France's fault WW2 took place? IMHO had the US had the balls at the time to tell France to STFU and not be so hard on Germany at the Treaty of Versai the Nazis would have never gained power. Lets face it, hunger and the inability to take care of your family makes people do and believe some crazy shit... but that's just my opinion.

Marb

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 26, 2003, 4:16 am

Marbus wrote:Last thing about Germany, and it's relevance to the current situation. I have heard some argue that it was our, the USs, fault for keeping Saddam in power by helping him in the Iranian war. While I disagree because we were actually helping both sides, it's a plausable arguement. Along those same lines, was it not Britian, the United States and espeically France's fault WW2 took place? IMHO had the US had the balls at the time to tell France to STFU and not be so hard on Germany at the Treaty of Versai the Nazis would have never gained power.

Man are you crazy? The US was the only world power after WW1 that had the right idea.

Americans have a huge hard-on for unconditional surrender. In fact General Pershing (the commander of the american forces in WW1) pushed and pushed for unconditional German surrender after they were defeated. But the UK and France were too wishy-washy and wrapped up in their own egos, political games and land division to force it on them. Thinking the Germans had learned their lesson, They let Germany pretty much do their own thing, let their economy flounder so badly, and contributed to their nasty economy with crippling bills they laid on them for the cost of the damage WW1 had on Europe; literally billions and billions of dollars.

So the Germans sat around for 15 years or so stewing in their own shit while Hitler rises to power and builds another massive army literally overtop the ashes of the old one while the rest of Europe sat idly by and watched it happen.

Had they listened to the united states and forced Germany into unconditional surrender and taken over government and drawn up a new constitution (and not financially ass fuck them while reaping the benefits of a valueless german deutsche mark), there is an astronomically high chance that a piece of human garbage like Adolf Hitler would have lived out his life in obscurity and died a lonely racist with a talent to create absolutely horrible works of art. In fact a lot of Germans didn't even think they were defeated on the battlefields because the rest of Europe did not force them to surrender and thus admit defeat. There was a large amount of Germans that thought they were defeated from within and blamed the jews on their inability to defeat the rest of Europe.. This gave rise to a wave of anti-semitism that contributed a lot of Hitler's rise to power.

Sure that hindsight is 20/20 but in this case it was just absolutely moronic what Europe let happen to Germany after WW1.

That's also why the US didn't involve themselves in WW2 for so long. Roosevelt was sympathetic to what was happening in Europe at the time but most Americans weren't interested in involving themselves in another European war after they were ignored when the first one ended. Hitler was basically an invention of the left-over greed and stupidity that started WW1 in the first place, and very a much a product of his times. After Germany invaded Poland, General Pershing himself (at the time chief of staff of the united states army and the main influence behind Roosevelt's massive 2000% buildup in military spending) stated that he (not verbatim) "no longer had the will nor the desire to involve the united states in another foolish european war."

Fun fact: General George C. Marshall (famous for the Marshall plan that was unbelievably successful in rebuilding and re-organizing Germany and Japan after their unconditional surrender in WW2), was General Pershing's top aide at the end of WW1. I wonder where he got his ideas from?

Pershing was one of the coolest Americans ever. From WW1: "Infantry, Artillery, Aviation -all that we have- are yours to dispose of as you will... I have come to say to you that the American people would be proud to be engaged in the greatest battle in history."

Nowadays we get quotes like "Let's Roll"

Raistin · Post by **Raistin** » March 26, 2003, 4:32 am

Who hacked kyoukan's VV account ?!

jk

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » March 26, 2003, 6:58 pm

Kyoukan,

I won't most dispute what you said at all, I agree it worked out that way. What I'm referring to was the monitary gain France took to "rebuild." IMHO that is/was what truly killed the economy in Germany and allowed Hitler to rise. However just like today France, while almost literally killing German citizens through economic means, didn't want another war etc... as you stated. Excellent information, I love to see the detail you listed, often the names from certain events escape me. Good to see someone besides me gives a rats-ass, probably even more rats-ass, about the early part of this century.

Marb

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » March 27, 2003, 7:16 am

You mean last century, right Marb?

It's one bit of history I haven't read up on yet but the impression I have from what I do know is that, notwithstanding the mismanagement of the situation by England and France, it was the usurious nature of the treaty of versailles that chafed Germany the most and also created the economic deprivations that allowed a doctrine like Naziism to flourish.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » March 27, 2003, 3:48 pm

Yea I did, good catch... I guess I'm still living in the 90s... man IS THAT scary.

Marb

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 27, 2003, 5:20 pm

usurious!

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » March 28, 2003, 8:19 am

Is that another word that is spelled wrong in yankeenglish?

"Usurios". Sounds like a crappy biscuit.

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » March 28, 2003, 10:03 am

I once wrote a paper on how great the German military and scientific machine was during WWI and WW2 that pretty much echoed everything Kyoukan just posted. I also posed the question if Germany would have risen to such majestc heights in WW2 (lets face it, to go from the very bottom to the very top of military and scientific might in 15 years is something that had never happened before, nor will probably ever happen again) if Europe did not screw them over so bad with those rediculous war reperation bills, not letting them use railroads and factories, etc. I would loved to have seen how things would have turned out for germany if Hitler were not an anti-semite and bent on world domination, and just wanted his country to be the best on the planet. Heh, would probably be the second Atlantis. The allies stole a ton of scientific data from germany after their defeat. They were ahead of us militarily and scientifically, they just could not match the industrial might of the US, combined with being tripple teamed. Even their most fundamental battlefield machines/tools were better than what the allies were using.

Oh well, one can only imagine how great germany would be right now.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » March 28, 2003, 10:39 am

One area of technology they were behind in was an important one though: Nuclear tech. The German's had just got a self-sustaining uranium pile working when the war ended so they were about 2 years behind the US.
Another thing that's amazed me when reading about WW2 is that the German army had relatively few motorized vehicles and the bulk of their artillery was horse drawn. Permit me a small boggle

But the rest of the tech, yeah. Jets, weapons, all sorts, not least the technology that put the US on the moon

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » March 28, 2003, 10:46 am

Heh, don't clown on them too much, I believe the US used horse cavalry in parts of WW1. I also recall Roosevelt using cavalry to attack some hill in Cuba too.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » March 28, 2003, 11:00 am

Yeah and the stuff I read tells me that the US army was basically the same in 1940 as it was in 1918 - horses and muskets and stuff

But 1942-1944 saw some pretty hard work to change that.
The horse-drawn germans thing struck me as funny because blitzkrieg was supposed to be such a fast assault. . .with horses!

Still I shouldn't knowck them I suppose as the all-time record for a single-day advance by ya frontline unit is held by a UK Cavalry regiment in WW1 who covered something daft like 50 miles.

It's all interesting shit though. When Rommel saw the 1000's of motorized vehicles coming off the beaches late on D-Day he knew it was over. Sheer volume was the main thing but conceding that much mobility to your opponent can't be good

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » March 28, 2003, 11:16 am

vn_Tanc wrote:
It's all interesting shit though. When Rommel saw the 1000's of motorized vehicles coming off the beaches late on D-Day he knew it was over. Sheer volume was the main thing but conceding that much mobility to your opponent can't be good

D-Day had one of the best double agent scams in history when Juan Pujol Garcia - code-named Garbo managed to convince Hitler it was just a diversion and the real attack was going to be coming to the north. The German tanks, 7 freakin divisions mind you, did not hit normandy until 3-5 days later (depending ion which division, he moved them over peicemeal). Garbo suggested that the landings were meant "to draw the maximum of our reserves to the area of operation, to retain them there so as to be able to strike a blow somewhere else with assured success.

"The fact that these concentrations (of forces) which are in the east and south of the island (Britain) are now inactive means that they must be held in reserve to be employed in the other large scale operation," he suggested.

Hitler believed his reports that the larger strike was planned for Calais.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » March 28, 2003, 11:27 am

Yeah he was convinced it would be Calais if it was going to be France at all but there was a big effort to persuade Nazi Intelligence that the landings would be in Norway and that scam held up surprisingly well.

The other problem they had on D-Day was that the availabale Panzer regiments were under the separate control of 3 people - Runstadt, Rommel and Hitler IIRC. The best placed elite Panzer regiments to throw the landings back into the sea was were under Hitler's direct command and couldn't be moved without his permission. On D-Day he slept til noon in Bechtesgaden and his staff refused to wake him when Rommel phoned to get the armour moving. Such was the state of nazi infighting at the time.
By the time the panzers did roll the beachheads were fairly solid and artillery spotter planes were in full effect. With the Brits holding Pegasus Bridge the Panzers had a 5-6 hour drive to get into battle and they were buttfucked by naval and air bombardment the entire way. I think they lost something like 60% of their strength before their severely rattled leftovers made it to the fight.

Ambrose's "D-Day" is a great read

It's amazing how thin the division between success and failure was at times during those first few days.