You may or may not like Dennis Miller

Rekaar. · Post by **Rekaar.** » March 20, 2003, 4:01 am

"TRYING TO HELP"
By Dennis Miller

All the rhetoric on whether or not we should go to war against Iraq has got my little brain spinning like a top. I enjoy reading opinions from both sides, but I've detected a hint of confusion from some of you. Maybe this can help.

As I was reading the paper recently, I was reminded of the best advice anyone ever gave me. He told me about the "KISS" method ("Keep It Simple, Stupid!"). So with this as a theme, I'd like to apply this theory for those who don't quite get it. My hope is that we can simplify things and recognize a few important facts.

Here are ten things to consider when voicing an opinion on this important issue:

(1) Between President Bush and Saddam Hussein ... Hussein is the bad guy.

(2) If you have faith in the Useless Nations to do the right things, keep this in mind: the UN has Libya heading the Committee on Human Rights and Iraq heading the Global Disarmament Committee. Do your own math here.

(3) If you use a Google or Yahoo search and type in "French Military Victories," don't be surprised if your computer panicks at its inability to respond to your inquiry.

(4) If you only anti-war slogan is "No War For Oil," hire a pit bull lawyer and sue your school district for having allowed you to slip through the cracks and robbing you of the minimum education that any non-troglodyte deserves

(5) You can take this one to the bank: Saddam and bin Laden will NOT seek UN approval before they try to kill us.

(6) Despite common belief among some, Martin Sheen is NOT the President. He only plays one on TV.

(7) If you are anti-war and even an outright "America Basher," to bin Laden you are still an "infidel" whom he wants dead.

(8) Be careful: if you believe in a "vast right-wing conspiracy," but not in the danger that Hussein poses, the only job you may be able to get is as an Ivy League college professor.

(9) Even multi-culturalists who try to browbeat us into believing that all cultures are equally deserving of respect have trouble explaining the past 500 years of Islam.

(10) Whether you are for or against military action, our young men and women overseas are fighting to defend our right to speak out on these issues. They deserve our unreserved support.

I hope this helps.

apologies if posted before, think some of these lend some good perspective to us.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » March 20, 2003, 4:37 am

I could comment on all 10 but I'll reserve mine for 9 and 10
9. You know NOTHING about Islam, don't act like you do, I am a religion major (Masters Degree) and could explain Islam to you till you were bored to tears, but I will keep it one line simple, they view the recent past as the second crusades, they have long memories, and little reason to trust us.
10. 110% Correct

noel · Post by **noel** » March 20, 2003, 5:27 am

Pherr the Dorf wrote:I could comment on all 10 but I'll reserve mine for 9 and 10
9. You know NOTHING about Islam, don't act like you do, I am a religion major (Masters Degree) and could explain Islam to you till you were bored to tears, but I will keep it one line simple, they view the recent past as the second crusades, they have long memories, and little reason to trust us.
10. 110% Correct

I firmly believe that if the US were to completely pull out all of our forces, assets and investments from the middle east and if we were to force Israel to move to Wyoming or something, the nations of Islam would be at war with each other over something as stupid as who the true prophet of Allah was. You can take that to the bank.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 20, 2003, 6:48 am

Any culture will wage war on each other for any stupid reason they can come up with... That is the nature of man; not specifically the nature of Islam.

Asians fight each other, Europeans fight each other, Africans, Indians, Arabs. Even North Americans will gun each other down in huge masses if you give them half a chance and we only have a few centuries of hatred built up so far.

Historically for being such an old culture Islamic society at it's core is fairly non-violent.

You can put that in your pipe and smoke it!

Atokal · Post by **Atokal** » March 20, 2003, 8:48 am

<-------- Would rather smoke this than the BS you spew.

kyoukan type-R wrote:
Historically for being such an old culture Islamic society at it's core is fairly non-violent.

You can put that in your pipe and smoke it!

Yes, yes, thats what was missing, content here at the vault.
The chopping off of hands, stoning to death for a myriad of reasons, and more recently the gassing of Kurds, the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Centers, etc etc etc. Yep fairly non-violent.

Btw "Historically for being such an old culture..." seems a little redundant.

*editted for content at the behest of Kyoukan

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 20, 2003, 8:55 am

Thank you for your valuable contribution here at the vault.

Zeilya · Post by **Zeilya** » March 20, 2003, 9:50 am

kyoukan type-R wrote: Historically for being such an old culture Islamic society at it's core is fairly non-violent.

Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,

And the Jews say: The hand of Allah is tied up! Their hands shall be shackled and they shall be cursed for what they say.

O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war

So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.

The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,

And (as for) the man who steals and the woman who steals, cut off their hands as a punishment for what they have earned, an exemplary punishment from Allah; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

And to those who were Jews We made unlawful every animal having claws, and of oxen and sheep We made unlawful to them the fat of both, except such as was on their backs or the entrails or what was mixed with bones: this was a punishment We gave them on account of their rebellion, and We are surely Truthful.

We will put shackles on the necks of those who disbelieved; they shall not be requited but what they did.

And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with It and do not break your oath; surely We found him patient; most excellent the servant! Surely he was frequent m returning (to Allah).

I will certainly cut off your hands and your feet on opposite sides, then will I crucify you all together.

You believe in him before I give you leave; most surely he is the chief of you who taught you enchantment, therefore I will certainly cut off your hands and your feet on opposite sides, and I will certainly crucify you on the trunks of the palm trees, and certainly you will come to know which of us is the more severe and the more abiding in chastising.

And He drove down those of the followers of the Book who backed them from their fortresses and He cast awe into their hearts; some you killed and you took captive another part

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » March 20, 2003, 10:16 am

Atokal wrote:The chopping off of hands, stoning to death for a myriad of reasons

That's essentially taken from the Old Testament, eye for an eye and such. I've spent time in a couple Islamic countries, the crime rate is nearly non-existant. Criminals are usually caught in fairly short order, and punishment served in a matter of weeks. Violent criminals don't get multiple chances, minor criminals do however.

*Edit - People are well aware of the consequences of their actions, and choose to violate the law. I don't have a lot of sympathy for them. Just like that twit American kid the got caned in Singapore a few years back.

Would I want to live there? Not a chance, the arab cultural/religious restrictions are applied to all, regardless of religion. The selling of a bible is against the law and will get you expelled/jailed in many of them. As will eating during the day during ramadan, etc...

Atokal wrote:...the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Centers, etc etc etc. Yep fairly non-violent.

That's like blaming Timothy McVeys'<sp> actions on christianity. There are nuts in every society.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 20, 2003, 11:27 am

I can say without a doubt that Dennis Miller did not write that.

It's not written in his style (I'm a huge Dennis Miller fan)
It shows incredible ignorance about the middle east (a subject of few of his 'jokes').
It's not funny.

Edit: Here's some Dennis Miller humor on the middle east.

Hey, I've got no clue what's going on in the Middle East. All I know is, you have two Abrahamic religious groups enmeshed in a conflict whose modern incarnation dates to the 1917 Balfour declaration, with territory disputes that remain unresolved despite the Wye River Accords and U.N. Resolutions 242 and 338... but I probably just sound like an ignorant American there.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » March 20, 2003, 11:55 am

yet another fake like the George Carlin one.

Basically, mildly conservative rhetoric disguised as something from a mainstream comedian to make it less threatening and lend it an air of credibility.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » March 20, 2003, 12:06 pm

Doesn't sound like Dennis Miller at all, far too one sided. Dennis takes great pride in poking at everyone equally.

(2) If you have faith in the Useless Nations to do the right things, keep this in mind: the UN has Libya heading the Committee on Human Rights and Iraq heading the Global Disarmament Committee. Do your own math here.

But damn, that's funny.

Pherr the Dorf · Post by **Pherr the Dorf** » March 20, 2003, 12:10 pm

Actually what is funny is that those posts are elected... democratically

Deward · Post by **Deward** » March 20, 2003, 12:52 pm

Singling Islam out for cruelty is completely one-sided. There are just as many evil things done by christians. Read the book of genesis in the old testament. There are some crazy stories in there.

Personally I think all religions are worthless and prey on the uneducated masses for the benefit of a few individuals. In most cases, people who are educated aren't religious.

The Bible is still a good book if you look at it as a moral text, not as a word from some bearded white guy with a foul temper. I am sure the Koran is similar although I haven't read it.

Deward

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » March 20, 2003, 1:04 pm

Be careful lifting passages out of the Koran like that without giving the context surrounding them.

If you do that, nine times out of ten you'll miss important framing that explains what at first appears drastic, to be quite understandable.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » March 20, 2003, 1:10 pm

That list isn't from Dennis Miller. It's lacking his usual plethora of bonus vocabulary words.

Wulfran · Post by **Wulfran** » March 20, 2003, 1:24 pm

...chopping off of hands, stoning to death for a myriad of reasons...

Is that sort of like burning people as witches because they knew a few herbal remedies or looked at someone the wrong way? You know like in Salem Ma.? Or to Joan of Ark? Or countless others in western Europe through the centuries?

Or how about hanging? That used to be the penalty for things like theft, as late as the 1800s in parts of the US and Europe.

Or gassing, or electrocuting? Still happens today. Capital punishment is still legal in countries all over the world: the difference is the mode of execution.

Atokal · Post by **Atokal** » March 20, 2003, 1:31 pm

Wulfran wrote:

Atokal wrote:...chopping off of hands, stoning to death for a myriad of reasons...

Is that sort of like burning people as witches because they knew a few herbal remedies or looked at someone the wrong way? You know like in Salem Ma.? Or to Joan of Ark? Or countless others in western Europe through the centuries?

Sure is bro except your examples are as you mention centuries out of date. The maiming, beheading, and stoning of "criminals" for minor offences such as stealing a loaf of bread, or god forbid having an affair are still occurring to this day.

Or how about hanging? That used to be the penalty for things like theft, as late as the 1800s in parts of the US and Europe.

Again ancient history

Or gassing, or electrocuting? Still happens today. Capital punishment is still legal in countries all over the world: the difference is the mode of execution.

For murder as I recall, premeditated. A very serious crime by comparison.

Maddux · Post by **Maddux** » March 20, 2003, 1:33 pm

Deward wrote:Personally I think all religions are worthless and prey on the uneducated masses for the benefit of a few individuals. In most cases, people who are educated aren't religious.

That is probably the most blatently Ignorant statement I have seen posted on this site. Less then 10 percent of the World population beleives there is no God.

So by your math, 10 percent of the world is Educated?

I think rather then saying in "most" cases, you should have went with in some cases. Just like there are idiots I am sure who don't beleive in God either. (Or I could stoop to your level and say all that do not beleive in God are Idiots! But I will leave that kind of blanket statement to the "Educated")

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » March 20, 2003, 1:49 pm

Yes, that list seemed too out of character to have come from Dennis Miller.

As for this:

Be careful lifting passages out of the Koran like that without giving the context surrounding them.

If you do that, nine times out of ten you'll miss important framing that explains what at first appears drastic, to be quite understandable.

It seems to be quite plainly written to me. It's quite easy to understand that in regards to most Arab societies, saying that women are less than equals would be quite an understatement. In some places they are treated as less than humans (cough!). But that is another subject...

The problem with your whole concept about the pile of bullshit called "context" is that it is constantly being reinterpreted. It seems like every few hundred years ( give or take a few score here and there) some dumbfuck is reinterpreting the bible, koran, what-the-fuck-ever, to fit their idea of context. When this person happens to have enough clout, walla....a new fucking version of whatever religious text is born. Ironically the new text just happens to more effectively suit their needs for controlling the masses.

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » March 20, 2003, 2:04 pm

That is probably the most blatently Ignorant statement I have seen posted on this site. Less then 10 percent of the World population beleives there is no God.

Math >> you.

China alone has 1.3 billion + people. I'd also wager that over 95% of them don't believe in a supreme being. If you worded it as "Less than 10 percent of the World population believes there is no supernatural entity(ies)", then your argument might be taken more seriously.

Deward, your argument needs a bit of tweaking.

From:

In most cases, people who are educated aren't religious.

To:

In most cases, people who aren't religious are educated

Bottom sentence applied to the US. I believe the literacy rate in China is rather low since it is still a vastly agrarian society.

Fovol · Post by **Fovol** » March 20, 2003, 3:34 pm

Truthfully, I don't really know if these statistics are accurate or not, but I've seen these percentages before (although I couldn't cite from where); either way, it's more than 10% that are non-religious:

Obviously from http://www.adherents.com

I don't agree with Deward's statement, but Kelgar's refrased version of it seems much more appropriate.

And on topic, those different chain letters that are going around are fun to read. I read one that is supposedly by Jack Daniels the other day that was interesting. I personally support the war, but it's nice to have people that are "straddling the fence" per se to be persuaded to atleast support our troops that are going over there to fight for their country.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » March 20, 2003, 4:12 pm

masteen wrote:That list isn't from Dennis Miller. It's lacking his usual plethora of bonus vocabulary words.

However, the term troglodyte was thrown in there.

Maddux · Post by **Maddux** » March 20, 2003, 4:30 pm

Fovol wrote:Truthfully, I don't really know if these statistics are accurate or not, but I've seen these percentages before (although I couldn't cite from where); either way, it's more than 10% that are non-religious:

Obviously from http://www.adherents.com

I stand Corrected. 14% > 10

As for the point of the rest of the post. I still feel like 14 is still a rather small number to suggest that most Educated people are not religious.

Acies · Post by **Acies** » March 20, 2003, 4:45 pm

Maddux wrote:
Fovol wrote:Truthfully, I don't really know if these statistics are accurate or not, but I've seen these percentages before (although I couldn't cite from where); either way, it's more than 10% that are non-religious:

Obviously from http://www.adherents.com
I stand Corrected. 14% > 10

As for the point of the rest of the post. I still feel like 14 is still a rather small number to suggest that most Educated people are not religious.

Maddux, I believe their is a god, but I am not committed to the restraints of a religion.
Once again:
God does not equal religion.
Fact is that god could (<-- operative word) be more akin to Satan and you would never actually know it, not nessicarily even after you die.
Point is religions prompt ingorance IMO. I prefer to find my own answers about gods and their relationships with man and woman.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » March 20, 2003, 5:13 pm

If those verses in the Koran were as cut and dried as shown above, they'd not be followed.

The fact that there is a sizable following of Islam supports the idea that there is some missing context not quoted in the post above.

But hey, the truth doesn't make for good msgboard posting does it?

Deward · Post by **Deward** » March 20, 2003, 6:43 pm

Let me rephrase my statement again. Most HIGHLY educated people aren't religious. I should of said most people with greater than a high school education are usually not religious. Meaning they may believe in god but are not going to go Jihad or Crusade and shit.

Although I am not an expert, I am pretty sure that pie chart is wrong. Last I heard, muslims outnumbered christians and Hindu was the largest of them all. I don't think China is very religious. Communism tends to frown upon organized religion.

/flame on I love a good religion "discussion"

Deward

Sirensa · Post by **Sirensa** » March 20, 2003, 6:47 pm

Deward wrote:Let me rephrase my statement again. Most HIGHLY educated people aren't religious. I should of said most people with greater than a high school education are usually not religious.

Anyone else see the irony in this statement?

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » March 20, 2003, 6:48 pm

We spawned from dinosaurs, its a proven fact!!!!!1

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 20, 2003, 6:49 pm

Yeah you've convinced me. Muslims are violent and non-muslims aren't. So that makes Islam an inherently violent culture that must be eradicated.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » March 20, 2003, 6:52 pm

Don't believe Kyoukan! She is teh woman and deserve to be beats with sticks!

Deward · Post by **Deward** » March 20, 2003, 6:55 pm

Gurugurumaki wrote:We spawned from dinosaurs, its a proven fact!!!!!1

Everyone knows we came here form Mars. Sheesh!!

Deward

Zeilya · Post by **Zeilya** » March 20, 2003, 7:19 pm

Deward wrote:Let me rephrase my statement again. Most HIGHLY educated people aren't religious. I should of said most people with greater than a high school education are usually not religious. Meaning they may believe in god but are not going to go Jihad or Crusade and shit.

Although I am not an expert, I am pretty sure that pie chart is wrong. Last I heard, muslims outnumbered christians and Hindu was the largest of them all. I don't think China is very religious. Communism tends to frown upon organized religion.

/flame on I love a good religion "discussion"

Deward

Deward, you really don't know what you are talking about.

All our modern education institutions were created by religion... colleges, et. It was religion that started almost all of that. The names of our sciences: Theology, Sociology, Anthropology, Psychology et are all based on areas of religious study. Many of the greatest minds in the history of the world were highly religious people, China is primarily Bhuddist but there are large populations of Taoists, et. China also has a unique and underground Christian Church that is completely independant from Western Christianity.

The current reign of uneducated "fundamentalism" is due to the fact that religion has been pushed out of learning instutions by agnostic and atheistic elite, thinking that somehow they could "stop religion" and instead they have created an militant, uneducated fundamentalist groundswell that has rapidly growing numbers. This is the same that has happened in the middle east, your poor religious folks are kept out of school, so the bulk of your deeply religious people are uneducated and easily swayed by maddened clerics and other fools. The only way to reverse the trend is to be religiously tolerant in institutions of higher learning, and to allow the poor to have access to higher education.

You will never get rid of religion, because everyone can feel that empty void in the heart, and will seek out spirituality in one form or another.

As far as religion leading to violence... sorry, the athiest regimes own religion when it comes to genocide. Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot.. et, killed more people in the last hundred years than all relgious conflicts in the previous two thousand. Pretty startling isn't it? Atheists have proven to be much more effect killers than anyone.

People kill because we are a corrupt and violent race, not because we are religious or irreligious.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 20, 2003, 7:24 pm

hitler was a catholic.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » March 20, 2003, 7:34 pm

Saddam married his cousin!

Venti · Post by **Venti** » March 20, 2003, 7:46 pm

Let me rephrase my statement again. Most HIGHLY educated people aren't religious. I should of said most people with greater than a high school education are usually not religious.

No, actually you should have stayed in school a little longer to ensure that writing "should of" in place of "should have" wouldn't be part of your future. Unless of course you were meaning to indicate that you are religious and not highly eductated but that seems "a long way around the barn".

That Irony?

Arsecn · Post by **Arsecn** » March 20, 2003, 7:51 pm

I worship Innoruuk.

Zeilya · Post by **Zeilya** » March 20, 2003, 8:08 pm

kyoukan type-R wrote:hitler was a catholic.

Is that why he gassed many thousands of Catholics along with the Jews? Is that why he was having nuns shot in Nowogrodek?

Hitler was raised Catholic, but he turned from the church, though he often used the church in his rhetoric, but on a personal level he despised relgion, which is why he had Himmler and Wiligut devise a plan to abolish all religion in Nazi Germany.

Anyway, since the propaganda has started, I am out of this conversation now. I don't have the time or energy to sit around debunking misinformation, personal historical revision, and outright lies.

Anytime you want to keep it real, let me know.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 20, 2003, 8:27 pm

Hitler referred to Christianity a lot in speeches and in his book Mein Kampf. It's strange to me that you have it under some strange authority that he only used it as rhetoric and didn't actually believe in it. I've never heard anything about him gathering up catholics and killing them during the holocaust.

I do know he tried hard to keep religion out of national socialism and generally all of politics, but I've never heard of him trying to crush all religion. Almost all of the nazis were members of some christian sect or another.

It seems to me that the only person trying to revise history on this thread is you. shrug nobody wants to think that Hitler belonged to whatever they belong to, especially a religion. There are however hundreds of catholic publications and websites that do claim he wasn't a catholic, or rejected christianity. The same goes for Mussolini, who was so ultra catholic that he had his own chapel.

Go to your library and see if they have a book called German Catholics and Hitler's Wars: A Study in Social Control by Gordon Zahn. Pius XII is often referred to as "Hitler's Pope" because of the ties he had with Nazi Germany.

http://www.ffrf.org/pennstation/hitler.html

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » March 20, 2003, 8:54 pm

Went through the whole thing about her book Kyou...nowhere did I see any reference to where she got that information. Even reading the "About the Author" section led me further from seeing that as a valid source. If I missed something, please feel free to make it clear~!

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 20, 2003, 9:37 pm

whoa now my sources need sources! and those sources will need sources too! HOLY SHIT IT IS A CIRCLE!

Rekaar. · Post by **Rekaar.** » March 20, 2003, 10:18 pm

Deward wrote:Let me rephrase my statement again. Most HIGHLY educated people aren't religious. I should of said most people with greater than a high school education are usually not religious. Meaning they may believe in god but are not going to go Jihad or Crusade and shit.

Golly gee, thanks for rephrasing that. Your thought process has become entirely clear now. Religious means you're a fanatic now? You have to be educated to be successful or intelligent? Here's a fact for you to chew on spunky: most of the CEOs of America (and the world) are extraordinarily religious people irregardless of their education level.

Why? I guess it has something to do with the greatest of leaders knowing they are not the be all and end all of existence, being able to lower their egos enough to submit to a greater power for mentorship and the humility to acknowledge they can and should learn from others, and having the realistic approach to life that is so crucial to being a great leader of others. The arrogance of assuming there is nothing greater than yourself is one of the most dispicable vices you can have. How convenient to tout there are no consequences for your actions in this modern day world of increasingly materialistic mentalities and unaccountable people.

People who say religion is in itself harmful or not realistic should remember it's the people who misuse principles that cause that misconception, not the principles themselves.

Although I am not an expert

no shit?

The dennis miller thing I got in an email, said it was posted in a Witchita news paper, I really didn't think anyone would care whether or not he really wrote it ;p

Truant · Post by **Truant** » March 20, 2003, 11:11 pm

Rekaar. wrote:The dennis miller thing I got in an email, said it was posted in a Witchita news paper, I really didn't think anyone would care whether or not he really wrote it ;p

then you obviously don't know any fans of dennis miller.

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » March 21, 2003, 12:04 am

I stand Corrected. 14% > 10

As for the point of the rest of the post. I still feel like 14 is still a rather small number to suggest that most Educated people are not religious.

Math still >> you.

You said "God". Since Allah basically = God. We therefore have a grand total of 55% according to the pie chart.

On a side note. Chinese (and most other eastern Asians in general) are more superstitious than they are religious.

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » March 21, 2003, 12:10 am

Here's a fact for you to chew on spunky: most of the CEOs of America (and the world) are extraordinarily religious people irregardless of their education level.

Uh oh, you said 'irregardless'. You are now officially inducted into Millie's list of assclowns who butcher the English language!

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » March 21, 2003, 12:44 am

Deward wrote:
Let me rephrase my statement again. Most HIGHLY educated people aren't religious. I should of said most people with greater than a high school education are usually not religious. Meaning they may believe in god but are not going to go Jihad or Crusade and shit.

Golly gee, thanks for rephrasing that. Your thought process has become entirely clear now. Religious means you're a fanatic now? You have to be educated to be successful or intelligent? Here's a fact for you to chew on spunky: most of the CEOs of America (and the world) are extraordinarily religious people irregardless of their education level.

Why? I guess it has something to do with the greatest of leaders knowing they are not the be all and end all of existence, being able to lower their egos enough to submit to a greater power for mentorship and the humility to acknowledge they can and should learn from others, and having the realistic approach to life that is so crucial to being a great leader of others. The arrogance of assuming there is nothing greater than yourself is one of the most dispicable vices you can have. How convenient to tout there are no consequences for your actions in this modern day world of increasingly materialistic mentalities and unaccountable people.

People who say religion is in itself harmful or not realistic should remember it's the people who misuse principles that cause that misconception, not the principles themselves.

Funny, I didn't see him mention anywhere in his post about there not being any consequences for one's actions.

As for the whole "greater than yourself" bit, why don't you just say "God" and get it over with? There are plenty of things greater than one's self. Deward, myself, and plenty of others simply don't include your God as one of them. Calling us arrogant or egotists for that merely shows everyone how ignorant you are.

Religion is an institution created by men whose main purpose is telling people how to live their lives, etc, etc. To us, your religion is a huge flaming pile of shit which you try to force feed others. I believe what you mean to say is that faith is in itself not harmful.

You'll find that most atheists have absolutely no problem with the concept of others having faith. Those types who believe in God, but are comfortable with not requiring themselves to constantly go to church in order to prove anything to themselves and others are generally people that we get along with just fine. There's mutual respect between one another. These people havent let themselves become tainted with the bullshit institution side of religion.

Rekaar. · Post by **Rekaar.** » March 21, 2003, 9:09 pm

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=irregardless

blow me =p

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » March 21, 2003, 10:21 pm

Dictionary.com wrote:Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance. Use regardless instead.

Zeilya · Post by **Zeilya** » March 23, 2003, 8:27 am

kyoukan type-R wrote:

I do know he tried hard to keep religion out of national socialism and generally all of politics, but I've never heard of him trying to crush all religion. Almost all of the nazis were members of some christian sect or another.

ItGo to your library and see if they have a book called German Catholics and Hitler's Wars: A Study in Social Control by Gordon Zahn. Pius XII is often referred to as "Hitler's Pope" because of the ties he had with Nazi Germany.

http://www.ffrf.org/pennstation/hitler.html

Ah Kyoukan, why don't you try some original thinking for a change and quit quoting propoganda websites you find with your Google search.

As far as that particular book by Gordon Zahn... Why on earth do I want to read a book about World War II politics written by a man who refused to fight in World War II? Don't you suppose that such an individual might have an agenda and don't you suppose he is probably less than truthful?

I rarely believe what I read in books by obscure authors with deeply held convictions about certain things, as in my experience I find that OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of those kinds of people are deluded, habitual liars.

I can often smell bullshit before I actually step in it.

Many Catholics were gassed along with the Jews by the way, since you are so good at Google searches why don't you look it up.

The Nazi party was not a "Christian" party, even though many deluded Christians embraced them, and yes, the Nazi's did indeed plan to abolish all religion. They were National Socialists after all.

If you want to find good books on WWII and the Nazi's you might try looking at some real stuff, Cambridge University has a nice list, many of their books written by scholars and men who were actually involved with the war, and fought bravely, or actually lived in Nazi Germany.

I would avoid books written about a war by a conflicted catholic pacifist who was too frightened to take part in it.

[/b]

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 23, 2003, 8:53 am

Zeilya wrote:[Many Catholics were gassed along with the Jews by the way, since you are so good at Google searches why don't you look it up. [/b]

There are many books written about hitler's pope. I didn't have to look anything up on google, because I've read that book. And I have probably forgotten more about WW2 than you will ever know in your entire life. The entire war is a passion of mine.

But hey if you are in such denial over hitler sharing the same religion as you then go ahead and prove me wrong. I'm sure someone so obviously learned as yourself could hook me up with mountains of information about the catholic holocaust.

Of course many non-jews died in the holocaust. Was it because they were christian? No. Was Hitler actively trying to crush Christianity? No.

This is the part of the thread where you put or shut up. Oh wait we already had that part and you did neither. So this is the part of the thread where I call your argument baseless and stupid.

And btw, socialists don't try to abolish all religions.. Fascists do. But I'm sure you knew that too and just confused the two in your rush to insult me.

Millie · Post by **Millie** » March 23, 2003, 9:38 am

I pity anyone who would believe that Dennis Miller wrote that pile of crap.