Iraq: The Aftermath

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » March 18, 2003, 11:44 am

Come to think of it, I was really awsome with GI Joes when I was a kid. I believe my Joe army had a 100% victory rating vs. Cobra. However, in today's day and age, my Chinese army in C&C: Generals dominates both the US as well as any terrorists with ease.

Fear the Red Army under the command of JimmyPopAli.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » March 18, 2003, 12:04 pm

Hardened troops my ass.

Four days for operations, a week for cleanup.

If there are more two hard pockets of resistance I will be amazed.

Then we will start the decades-long process of political rebuilding, which is expensive and uncertain.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » March 18, 2003, 12:50 pm

Fallanthas wrote:Then we will start the decades-long process of political rebuilding, which is expensive and uncertain.

We're doing such a bang-up job in Afghanistan, Iraq should be no probrem!

Seriously, I hope we don't just prop up another petty dictator. Hopefully, Powell will explain to Dubya, using small words and soothing tones, how that would not be good for the long term stability of the region.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » March 18, 2003, 12:52 pm

Yeah.

The problem is, there aren't exactly a wealth of options to choose from.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » March 18, 2003, 12:54 pm

Actually, the regime was removed in Afghanistan in weeks when we went in. The Soviets never were successful in a years long Afghan campaign.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » March 18, 2003, 1:02 pm

It's not the removal that is the problem, Kil. It's the replacing that's hard...

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » March 18, 2003, 1:08 pm

It's not the removal that is the problem, Kil. It's the replacing that's hard...

Dammit. I know there's a joke there, I just can't put the words together. My rapist wit has failed me

Mort · Post by **Mort** » March 18, 2003, 1:13 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:Come to think of it, I was really awsome with GI Joes when I was a kid. I believe my Joe army had a 100% victory rating vs. Cobra. However, in today's day and age, my Chinese army in C&C: Generals dominates both the US as well as any terrorists with ease.

Fear the Red Army under the command of JimmyPopAli.

"I have many bullet's to spare...."

I prefer teh Chinese too, Nukes pwn scud storms.....

Mort · Post by **Mort** » March 18, 2003, 1:19 pm

Also, Im not sure I can think of a Muslim Democratic Society? im not slamming Muslims at all here, I'm just thinking out loud and cant seems to think of one atm.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 18, 2003, 1:33 pm

there are a few muslim countries that are democracies but most of islam is still steeped in royalty.

a lot of small countries are democracies. turkey is a democracy, most of the *.stans etc.

the real power in most islamic countries is held by religious leaders however. directly or indirectly if you don't have support of the head clerics you political career is pretty much dead.

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » March 18, 2003, 1:44 pm

Hardened troops my ass

Veterans of the Iran/Iraq war and the Gulf War, as well equipped as Iraq can manage, dug in in cities, nowhere to run and fanatically loyal to Saddam. Even a cursory glance at Sun Tzu will tell you you're likely to get a rough ride here unless they capitulate.

Actually, the regime was removed in Afghanistan in weeks when we went in. The Soviets never were successful in a years long Afghan campaign

More ignorance from the king of the stupids.
The Soviets had exactly the level of success that the US is currently enjoying: They controlled the key cities and installed a puppet government that enjoyed patchy support.
Outside the cities they were in another world - one of rugged terrain controlled by tribal warlords.

If you're so convinced about how GREAT things are in Afghanistan go and look up:
1) The number of US bodyguards the "Prime Minister" requires
2) The number of assassination attempts being made
3) The level of control over outlying regions excercised by the US presence in Afghanistan (i.e. the post the other day about re-imposition of sharia law via the backdoor among US "allies" there).

No wait! On second thoughts disregard all of this, and the economy, and cronyism in your government, and the diplomatic situation with your friends, oh, and your enemies and keep your eye on the Iraqi turkey shoot. That's what you're sposed to do.

Dalmoth · Post by **Dalmoth** » March 18, 2003, 2:07 pm

War - foregone conclusion Sadam will be gone.

Cost - Who gives a shit, get your fucking MBA out of international politics. Governments are not in the business of making money, they are in the business of taking on the projects no one wants to undertake because there is no money in it.

Oppurtunity - A huge oppurtunity is afforded to change forever the lives of Iraqui citizens. There is a slim oppurtunity that the entire Arab world could be changed.

Risk - Its there either way, by going in now we are mitigating risk.

Economy - How the fuck do you think a war with Iraq affects whether you buy a toaster tomorrow? Economy is about buying/selling, if you personally don't consume then the economy isn't getting better. Now, if your sitting in your own fesces living off the government THEN you might have a beef with a war from an economic stand point. The economy is the clearest example of chaos theory in action. It can't be totally understood, it just is. I'm sick of people trying to blame the economy on everything and to blame individuals for the economy, fucking grow up and take some responsibility for you own slacking ass for a change.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 18, 2003, 2:13 pm

More ignorance from the king of the stupids

Kilmoll doesn't deserve that crown...take a look at Dalmoth's post.

Dalmoth · Post by **Dalmoth** » March 18, 2003, 2:17 pm

All hail the king baby.

Attend my codpeice bitch.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 18, 2003, 2:22 pm

Dalmoth wrote:All hail the king baby.

Attend my codpeice bitch.

Joy, I just love cryptic insults.
I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

Dalmoth modeling his codpiece.
Impressive package there bud... you're hung like a fieldmouse.

Dalmoth · Post by **Dalmoth** » March 18, 2003, 2:34 pm

You were correct, more thought was required to fathom my meaning.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 18, 2003, 2:40 pm

Dalmoth wrote:You were correct, more thought was required to fathom my meaning.

Oh, I 'got' it, I simply didn't find it very creative or funny.
People often try to disguise their sub-par insults with cryptic references and uncommon words...

On second tought, I think this might be you modeling your codpiece.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » March 18, 2003, 5:16 pm

Veterans of the Iran/Iraq war and the Gulf War, as well equipped as Iraq can manage, dug in in cities, nowhere to run and fanatically loyal to Saddam. Even a cursory glance at Sun Tzu will tell you you're likely to get a rough ride here unless they capitulate.

Tanc, you just don't have a clue, bud. You can't even compare fighting Iranian troops to fighting US troops. Fighting US troops who outnumber you a thousand to one and own the sky and the ground you stand on is a position you can keep for.....maybe five minutes.

Sun Tzu was smart enough to recoignize the difference between a warrior and a peasant. Figure it out.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 18, 2003, 5:47 pm

Fallanthas wrote:Sun Tzu was smart enough to recoignize the difference between a warrior and a peasant. Figure it out.

yeah he was. in fact his entire philosophy of war beyond the tactical is to get the commoners on your side or you will lose every single war every single time. try reading his book before you spew about it, you stupid dumbass.

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » March 18, 2003, 5:52 pm

kyoukan type-R wrote:
Fallanthas wrote:Sun Tzu was smart enough to recoignize the difference between a warrior and a peasant. Figure it out.
yeah he was. in fact his entire philosophy of war beyond the tactical is to get the commoners on your side or you will lose every single war every single time. try reading his book before you spew about it, you stupid dumbass.

I tried to read his book, but dont understand Chinese

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » March 18, 2003, 5:58 pm

Amazingly enough Tanc, the U.S. has Special forces out in those tribal lands searching for Osama. I have not exactly seen huge skirmishes coming from those areas. I would say the reason is that those tribal warlords have virtually nothing to fear from the U.S. Say what you want, but we are not a country who goes around killing people for absolutely no reason.

And for the record, if we wanted to extinguish those people like the Soviets tried, they would be dead. It is much harder to attempt to capture only certain individuals out of the entire population of that area.

Millie · Post by **Millie** » March 18, 2003, 6:16 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
masteen wrote:Win or lose, our economy will recover. You must be a marketing goon, cause those are some loaded questions.

"Do you like Coke? Or are you a Pepsi-drinking terrorist?"
lol. My thought exactly. I picked other.

We will be sucessful, the economy will recover, we may have another terrorist attack on US soil, etc etc etc.

Hey dumbass, I provided the "other" option to give people a chance to provide alternate scenarios to the ones listed in the poll. As I've mentioned before, I'm just trying to cover all the bases here -- be they extremes on either end of the spectrum, or more moderate scenarios.

Why you're criticizing my poll because of its inclusiveness is a mystery to me. As is the location of your frontal lobe.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 18, 2003, 6:21 pm

Fighting US troops who outnumber you a thousand to one

Mathematics owns you

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » March 18, 2003, 6:24 pm

miir wrote:
Fighting US troops who outnumber you a thousand to one
Mathematics owns you

300,000 US troops will be engaging against 300 Iraqi's then...DID I TEH WIN?

Revs · Post by **Revs** » March 18, 2003, 7:20 pm

I would say #2 and should've added "be rid of all French interest in Iraq for being such pussies"

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » March 18, 2003, 7:33 pm

Ok, math time.

How many Republican guard do you think will fight?

Stop fucking playing semantics games and think the situation through. Saddam is fucked, several of his personal compounds are going to be levelled and the whole thing is going to be over before tax time rolls around.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 18, 2003, 8:44 pm

Fallanthas wrote:Ok, math time.

How many Republican guard do you think will fight?

hah you dumb shithead you don't even know how many republican guard there are.

christ almighty you were off on the population of iraq by TWO HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 18, 2003, 8:52 pm

Fuck the French. They should lose everything for not supporting this war. The fucknuts are trying to protect their oil interests and investments but wht they are doing is assuring that they will lose them from a pissed off Bush after the war.

The French are too stupid to talk to Bush and arrange to have their oil investments secured in a post Saddam government if they support the war.

h8 the French. h8 h8 h8.

Kwonryu DragonFist · Post by **Kwonryu DragonFist** » March 19, 2003, 12:24 am

Mad Max was a vision of the future!

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » March 19, 2003, 1:09 am

No Kyuo, my point flew right between your narrow fucking ears and never made contact with living matter.

THEY AREN'T GOING TO FIGHT!

There, maybe the caps you so love will make things clearer for you.

If one fifth of Saddams personal guard are left with him after midnight tomorrow it will be a miracle for his side. His army is shit. They injured more people stampeding to the rear of the combat line to surrender than were killed in Desert Storm, and it will be the same this time.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 19, 2003, 2:18 am

no saddam's republican guard is insanely loyal to him, well dug in and veterans of more conflict than the US infantry is. they're also in familiar territory sitting defensively in an urban setting.

it is saddam's regulars that are probably going to surrender quickly.

but I'm sure you already knew that because you're like, smart and stuff and are just testing me.

noel · Post by **noel** » March 19, 2003, 2:37 am

Winnow wrote:
Animalor wrote:
Winnow wrote:We will have 250,000 troops, minus a few killed by canadian friendly fire, sitting right next to Iran.
This is fucking hilarious given that it was your planes that bombed our troops in Afghanistan...

Anyhow....

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/03/17/chretieniraq030317
I know : )
/taunt

This has probably already been covered, but I'm in catch up mode at the moment, and I just have this comment.

That was in no way funny at all. As always, Winnow...

Go fuck yourself. Even in jest, that was horribly insensitive, and completely uncalled for. I'm all for friendly teasing between the Canadians and Americans on this board, but your comment is classless.

To respond to the topic at hand... Our military will rip through the Iraqui military like a hot knife through butter. Winning the military portion will be trivial compared to the political war which we have thus far failed to so much as make headway in.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » March 19, 2003, 2:54 am

Fanatically loyal, yeah.

Funny how people are branded as fanatically loyal when they only have one side of the story, then fold like a house of cards when they are looking at 200,00 troops on the other side of the line.

Prediction 1 : War over in 48 hours. Saddam dead/captured in 96 hours. Hostilities cease in less than two weeks.

Prediction 2: Kyou crying on VV. "But you cheated, you bullies! You pointed GUNS at them!"

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 19, 2003, 3:00 am

you sound like one of those dumbfuck hawks that brayed like donkeys about going in and kicking the rice eaters around in vietnam until they learned to behave like good little slaves. people like you is why there is even a war at all, because you just want to see brown people get shot without many white people get shot back.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » March 19, 2003, 3:21 am

Fuck you cunt.

You don't know me, you don't know my beliefs, you sure as hell don't know how hard I work to prevent and expose racial bias in an industry that has been accused of bias for the last forty years.

Let me try and make this clear for your stunted little mind. Your playground name-calling does not impress me. When you can come to this board and defend a point on it's merits, do so. Until then, go the fuck home.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » March 19, 2003, 3:24 am

Winnow wrote: The French are too stupid to talk to Bush and arrange to have their oil investments secured in a post Saddam government if they support the war.

It doesn't surprise me that this would come from you Winnow. You want the French to be sorta like you. You want them to suck ass and lick dick to get what they want like you do. But I guess you don't want them to complain and throw hissy fits like you do?

Kyou, Fallanthas didn't know the population of the U.S., not Iraq.

There are 5 million people in Baghdad. Say 80% of them leave and/or surrender, you still have 1 million people defending their homes. The only way to invade Baghdad without tremendous U.S. casualties will be to drop a few MOABs on the city. I'm sure this will go over real well with everyone.

Hypocracy is:

Breaking one law in order to enforce another.

Using WMDs in order to make sure WMDs don't get used.

Dregor Thule · Post by **Dregor Thule** » March 19, 2003, 3:30 am

Fallanthas wrote:Fuck you cunt.

You don't know me, you don't know my beliefs, you sure as hell don't know how hard I work to prevent and expose racial bias in an industry that has been accused of bias for the last forty years.

Let me try and make this clear for your stunted little mind. Your playground name-calling does not impress me. When you can come to this board and defend a point on it's merits, do so. Until then, go the fuck home.

You work for the NBA?

*rimshot*

I'd also like to point out you called Kyou a cunt and then berated her for name-calling. BUT I'M SURE KYOU IS IMPRESSED BY YOUR USE OF CUNT!

Krimson Klaw · Post by **Krimson Klaw** » March 19, 2003, 7:23 am

kyoukan type-R wrote:you sound like one of those dumbfuck hawks that brayed like donkeys about going in and kicking the rice eaters around in vietnam until they learned to behave like good little slaves. people like you is why there is even a war at all, because you just want to see brown people get shot without many white people get shot back.

Please tell me your fiance of color is not always spewing this to you? Is this what you truly believe, or have you heard it so much from your oppressed husband to be that it has become law with you? I mean, I really want to know where this view of yours that *all white Republicans are racist* really comes from. I don't think I have seen anyone once on this board bring race into the argument, with the sole exception of the left wingers. You guys need new talking points. Ferreals. Kyoukan, be serious with your reply, don't use caps, swear words, or try to impress the other 5 liberals that constantly stroke you on this board. Just tell me where this view of yours comes from. Your view, or your fiances? If your fiance thinks this, then he's going nowhere fast in life. If you believe it, then that's cool, I just want to know where it comes from because I know you are not reading it anywhere.

Maybe you did not mean it, and were just trying to be funny. If so, I apologize for not catching the joke. /carryon

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 19, 2003, 8:54 am

oh yeah bring him into it because I can't think for myself. there's a tactic that will work.

this stupid shit in iraq is nothing but a muslim bashing vengeance trip. you aren't fooling anyone. the us wants revenge for 911 and they are pointing the finger at Islam.

weapons of mass destruction my ass.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » March 19, 2003, 9:50 am

Fallanthas wrote:You don't know me, you don't know my beliefs, you sure as hell don't know how hard I work to prevent and expose racial bias in an industry that has been accused of bias for the last forty years.

You work at a restaurant?

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » March 19, 2003, 11:20 am

[It doesn't surprise me that this would come from you Winnow. You want the French to be sorta like you. You want them to suck ass and lick dick to get what they want like you do. But I guess you don't want them to complain and throw hissy fits like you do?

Umm isnt that exactly what the French do though?

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » March 19, 2003, 11:37 am

Ignorant bitch. How many wars have there actually been involving the U.S. and "them brown skinned people"?

Lets look at just the ones off the top of my head...

Revolutionary War....cracker on cracker
Civil War.....brother against brother (to end slavery and free them brown fellers)
World War I....whites killing whites
World War 2....more whites killing whites..and throw in some Japanese that attacked us
Korea....you got us there
Vietnam...got us there too!
Gulf War 1....removed an invasion of muslims on muslims

We sure like to discriminately kill them colerds. How hard do you have to try to be such a fucking dolt?

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » March 19, 2003, 12:32 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Ignorant bitch. How many wars have there actually been involving the U.S. and "them brown skinned people"?

Lets look at just the ones off the top of my head...

Revolutionary War....cracker on cracker
Civil War.....brother against brother (to end slavery and free them brown fellers)
World War I....whites killing whites
World War 2....more whites killing whites..and throw in some Japanese that attacked us
Korea....you got us there
Vietnam...got us there too!
Gulf War 1....removed an invasion of muslims on muslims

We sure like to discriminately kill them colerds. How hard do you have to try to be such a fucking dolt?

I think the Germans might be a tad more racist then anyone

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » March 19, 2003, 12:35 pm

Instead of pulling these single sentences of staggering inanity out of your arse every 5 mins why don't you fuck off and play with all the other special children and leave us grown ups to our swearing?

I mean, Jesus Fing Christ.

Millie · Post by **Millie** » March 19, 2003, 1:32 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Gulf War 1....removed an invasion of muslims on muslims

That's an interesting way of phrasing things, considering that the Gulf War amounted to a white on brown combat scenario. I'm not saying that race had anything to do with the Gulf War (I don't believe it did), but you effectively dodged the question when you labeled the war as "removing an invasion of muslims on muslims."

Here's a little tidbit about how we "liberated" the Iraqi and Kuwaiti people during the first Gulf War:

1) We encouraged Iraqi and Kuwaiti citizens to rise up from oppression and revolt against Saddam. We promised that we would aid them in their rebellion.

2) We went into Kuwait and kicked Saddam's forces out of the country. It was then our stated promise to go into Iraq and help the rebels.

3) We packed up and went home, leaving Saddam to slaughter the now-helpless people in his country that had rebelled against him.

This is *not* how you 'liberate' a people from oppression. You don't promise them your support, not deliver it, and let them die as a result. Betraying them like that only further opens their minds to Saddam's rhetoric. If he's calling us evil oppressors, and the only evidence the Iraqi people have is our betrayal of them in 1991, then they're going to think Saddam has a point. That's why this time around, the Iraqis at home will be turning their guns on *us*. They're not going to turn on Saddam the second we march into Baghdad. They're going to try to kill us, and they will have the conviction of our prior wrongdoings to support their beliefs.

I can only hope we don't fuck over the Iraqis the same way we did last time. If we do, we're going to create OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS more anti-American sentiment in a region with precious few allies.

And finally, let's not forget that in 1979, we provided Saddam with all his weapons and war machinery (including design plans and chemical agents for WOMDs). We also funded his Bath party, and killed off dissidents to ensure that he would maintain his hold on power. Only a decade later did he decide to turn against us. In other words: this upcoming war is nothing more than our cleaning up the mess we created.

miir · Post by **miir** » March 19, 2003, 1:42 pm

If he's calling us evil oppressors, and the only evidence the Iraqi people have is our betrayal of them in 1991, then they're going to think Saddam has a point

Not to forget the US incited 1998 Kurdish uprising in Northern Iraq.
Support was promised.... The US even went so far as to order the UN weapon inspectors out of Iraq a few days before... but when all was said and done, their violent Kurdish uprising resulted in the deaths of thousands of Kurds (and very few Iraqis).

I can't really see all Kurds being overjoyed at America invading Iraq.

In other words: this upcoming war is nothing more than our cleaning up the mess we created.

The US encouraged and helped Saddam gain and retain power for 15 years. UN sanctions basically ensured that he would remain in power for the past 12.

The whole situation reeks.

Trias · Post by **Trias** » March 19, 2003, 3:27 pm

god bless warmongering

it makes for good tv

Atokal · Post by **Atokal** » March 19, 2003, 3:38 pm

kyoukan type-R wrote:oh yeah bring him into it because I can't think for myself. there's a tactic that will work.

this stupid shit in iraq is nothing but a muslim bashing vengeance trip. you aren't fooling anyone. the us wants revenge for 911 and they are pointing the finger at Islam.

weapons of mass destruction my ass.

MY FIANCE IS TEH BALCK MAN SO I CAN SAY WHATEVER I WANT TO THE SO CALLED WHITE MAN!1!!!! IT ALL ABOUT RACE WARS I HEARD THIS FROM CHARLIE MANS

N

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 19, 2003, 5:39 pm

Atokal wrote:MY FIANCE IS TEH BALCK MAN SO I CAN SAY WHATEVER I WANT TO THE SO CALLED WHITE MAN!1!!!! IT ALL ABOUT RACE WARS I HEARD THIS FROM CHARLIE MANS N

it cracks me up because after you post tripe like that you probably sit back and high five yourself for "owning kyoukan" again.

Atokal · Post by **Atokal** » March 19, 2003, 5:43 pm

kyoukan type-R wrote:
Atokal wrote:MY FIANCE IS TEH BALCK MAN SO I CAN SAY WHATEVER I WANT TO THE SO CALLED WHITE MAN!1!!!! IT ALL ABOUT RACE WARS I HEARD THIS FROM CHARLIE MANS N
it cracks me up because after you post tripe like that you probably sit back and high five yourself for "owning kyoukan" again.

WON HUAMN BEING SHOULD NEVER PWN ANOTHER HUMAN BEING TAHT WOULD BE TEH SLAVERY!11!!1

No my hands hurt from high fiving so much in the past 3 weeks

VeeshanVault

Iraq: The Aftermath

Which of the following is the most likely post-war scenario?