Denied

Acies · Post by **Acies** » March 11, 2003, 8:01 pm

Two U.S. U-2 surveillance planes on a U.N. inspection mission over Iraq were recalled to their base today after being challenged by Iraq, a senior administration official told CNN. Iraq scrambled aircraft as the two planes were flying a mission for the U.N. inspection agency UNMOVIC, U.S. officials said. U.S. officials said it was unclear whether Iraq had launched the aircraft to intercept the surveillance planes

Shaerra · Post by **Shaerra** » March 11, 2003, 8:03 pm

WOOHOO! Kick the tires and light the fires, baby, it's SHOWTIME!

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » March 11, 2003, 8:06 pm

eh I don't get it. So a plane is launched, and they don't even know if it was supposed to intercept the U-2s? What's the big deal? If it had fired at them, sure. Or even tried to block them.

Shaerra · Post by **Shaerra** » March 11, 2003, 8:12 pm

So what!

The prane can fry over 93 mires!

KILL KILL KILL

Brotha · Post by **Brotha** » March 11, 2003, 8:13 pm

What's the point of your post Acies? Are you trying to pat Iraq on the back for fending off the big mean American bullies, or trying to point out yet another instance of Iraqi non compliance?

I haven't had a chance to read this board much in the past couple weeks, but I hope you have come around to the logical and level headed conclusion that Iraq needs to be disarmed by force, and were using this post as another means to back up your decision.

Kaluian_CT · Post by **Kaluian_CT** » March 11, 2003, 8:17 pm

They did launch to intercept the U2's. Iraqi officials excuse was that they were not informed that there were to be 2 planes. They cant see what kind of plane it is from the ground so sure,...if there was a deviation from the norm,..I too would have sent some planes to check it out.

Then of course I understand our point of view too. Do you think the UN inspectors would tolerate a couple T-72 tanks following them around in they're UN Range Rovers? I think not,...there is no difference here.

Soriathus Serpentine · Post by **Soriathus Serpentine** » March 11, 2003, 8:18 pm

I think he's pointing out that it's escallating to almost acts of war at this point. A single thing like a plane being shot down or even acted against if going to elevate this more and more quickly. Sure ther ewas no gunfire here but there could have been. It's making people nervious. Trigger itchy syndrome. It's getting seriously exponential at this point.

War is looking unavoidable at this point reguardless of what Bush or the UN does.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 11, 2003, 8:21 pm

Iraq most likely rejects the use of US spy planes flying over their country while the US has a quarter of a million troops lined up to invade them. You blame them?

Shaerra · Post by **Shaerra** » March 11, 2003, 8:29 pm

THEY R SHOWING AGRESSION TOWARDS BONO!!1!

Kaluian_CT · Post by **Kaluian_CT** » March 11, 2003, 8:33 pm

Not a bit.

My only argument would be, if I saw a 1200 lb gorilla in my driveway with M-60's in both hands pointed at my head,...would I make any sudden movements? I'm gonna say no at this juncture, thx

But if this shit is inevitable,..guess ya gotta do whatever ya can huh.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » March 11, 2003, 8:39 pm

Call me cynical but I am betting with 100% certainty that the U-2s were doing pre-war scanning and not scanning for WMDs.

Neost · Post by **Neost** » March 11, 2003, 8:39 pm

So nobody has paid attention to the MANY times that the UN sanctioned patrols of the southern and northern no-fly zones have been engaged by Iraqi air defenses?

Iraq has chafed at the restrictions the UN sanctioned and tested the limits constantly almost from the end of GulfWar I. Regional stabilization is not attainable as long as the current regime exists. I didn't say "in power", I said exists.

Anyone who wonders why Saddam needs to be removed from power hasn't learned from history.

Acies · Post by **Acies** » March 11, 2003, 8:40 pm

Soriathus Serpentine wrote:I think he's pointing out that it's escallating to almost acts of war at this point. A single thing like a plane being shot down or even acted against if going to elevate this more and more quickly. Sure ther ewas no gunfire here but there could have been. It's making people nervious. Trigger itchy syndrome. It's getting seriously exponential at this point.

War is looking unavoidable at this point reguardless of what Bush or the UN does.

Bingo.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » March 11, 2003, 9:08 pm

Neost wrote:So nobody has paid attention to the MANY times that the UN sanctioned patrols of the southern and northern no-fly zones have been engaged by Iraqi air defenses?

Iraq has chafed at the restrictions the UN sanctioned and tested the limits constantly almost from the end of GulfWar I. Regional stabilization is not attainable as long as the current regime exists. I didn't say "in power", I said exists.

Anyone who wonders why Saddam needs to be removed from power hasn't learned from history.

First of all.. the No Fly zones are not UN sanctioned. They were created by USA without UN approval.

Secondly.. if you consider the "history" part to be 1930s Germany.. *groan*

Brotha · Post by **Brotha** » March 11, 2003, 9:25 pm

Kelshara wrote:First of all.. the No Fly zones are not UN sanctioned. They were created by USA without UN approval.

Holy shit we did something without UN approval?! It is well known that the UN is the origin of everything right and meaningful, a responsible and very reliable organization that can be counted on to protect people in it's infinite foresight and wisdom! Since we didn't get UN approval, this must have been for oil, or a personal vendetta or something. Or wait...we probably wire tapped someone to get this brilliant idea of trying to keep Saddam from massacring more people!

Secondly.. if you consider the "history" part to be 1930s Germany.. *groan*

What? You don't see the similarities between Saddam and other butchers of our past and how history has a way of repeating itself?

Read this article: http://www.billoreilly.com/currentarticle

The similarities are truly eerie.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » March 11, 2003, 9:34 pm

eh wake up, I posted that in a response to someone claiming it was UN sanctioned. I even quoted the comment to make it easier for people like you to understand it.

And I am sure I could argue a comparison between Bush and Hitler if I really wanted to. But here are NO similarities between 1930s Europe and Germany and today's world situation and Iraq. Not militarily. Not industrially.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 11, 2003, 9:47 pm

Neost wrote:So nobody has paid attention to the MANY times that the UN sanctioned patrols of the southern and northern no-fly zones have been engaged by Iraqi air defenses?

Iraq has chafed at the restrictions the UN sanctioned and tested the limits constantly almost from the end of GulfWar I. Regional stabilization is not attainable as long as the current regime exists. I didn't say "in power", I said exists.

Anyone who wonders why Saddam needs to be removed from power hasn't learned from history.

they don't really get engaged by air defenses, but the Iraqis like to light them up with a radar lock. They aren't going to waste SAM rockets on patrolling air vehicles, and if they did, then there would be news about crashed US fighters and spy planes every other day in the news. Countermeasures are effective, but a good anti-air missile will still hit well over half the time.

And the no-fly zone in northern Iraq isnt UN sanctioned, although I do support it's existence.

Brotha · Post by **Brotha** » March 11, 2003, 9:50 pm

Sorry if you think I implied anything by that. It just seems like more and more people who disagree with Bush on the Iraq issue are suddenly having an epiphany and realizing how great and perfect the UN is.

Please try to make a realistic comparison between Bush and Hitler.

Also, I'd argue that with weapons of mass destruction, Saddam doesn't need the types of convential forces Germany did back then to wreak havok on the world. On the humanitarian and personal issue, the comparison is without a doubt right on. To quote something from the article from the link I posted:

I consider Saddam Hussein to be "Hitler lite" because he has the same virulent anti-semitism, the same callous disregard for human life, and the identical lust for power that Adolf possessed.

The only difference between the two villains is the size of the moustache.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » March 11, 2003, 9:54 pm

I consider Pat Buchanan to be "Hitler lite" because he has the same virulent anti-semitism, the same callous disregard for human life, and the identical lust for power that Adolf possessed.

The only difference between the two villains is the size of the ego.

Neost · Post by **Neost** » March 11, 2003, 10:59 pm

I may have been incorrect about the no-fly zones being UN sanctioned however there is UN influence:

Operation Northern Watch (ONW) is a Combined Task Force (CTF) charged with enforcing the no-fly zone north of the 36th parallel in Iraq and monitoring Iraqi compliance with UN Security Council resolutions 678, 687, and 688. The northern no-fly zone is not an aggression against Iraq or a violation of its sovereignty, it is a necessary and legitimate measure to limit Iraq's aggressive air activities.

And the history I was referring to was the history example I used. Saddam's record, not some thinly veiled reference to Nazi's. I suppose it's become easy to accuse someone of throwing out the Nazi reference since everyone knows if you reference Hitler/Nazi's you lose the argument. Easy way to declare yourself the victor.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » March 12, 2003, 2:43 am

So what if Neo did reference them? I'll reference them and other situations in Europe and elsewhere because they DO matter. Saying the events leading up to the largest conflict in the HISTORY of this planet don't matter is pure stupidity. Yes it has relevance in this situation, no it's not the beginning and end of an arguemnt but only a fool would think it's irrelevent or that there are no similarities (and I can't spell tonight either!)

...No similarities...

And I'm sure someone could argue a comparison between Bush and Hitler, it would fail but they could try. Oh if I had the time for a counter arguemnt how grand that would be but... work calls... personally I just need a little more lebensraum.

Marb

vn_Tanc · Post by **vn_Tanc** » March 12, 2003, 6:35 am

It's fucking bullshit like that bomb test.
THe US has enough air power in the region to escort each U2 with a fucking 1000 bomber raid if it wants and it sure as shit isnt scared of the 2-bit Iraqi air defense system - if it was it wouldn't be flying 400 sorties a week in the no-fly zones.
It's just a case of "OMFG TEH IRQAS ARE SCARING ME (lets go to war quick!)"

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » March 12, 2003, 10:11 am

vn_Tanc wrote:It's fucking bullshit like that bomb test.
THe US has enough air power in the region to escort each U2 with a fucking 1000 bomber raid if it wants and it sure as shit isnt scared of the 2-bit Iraqi air defense system - if it was it wouldn't be flying 400 sorties a week in the no-fly zones.
It's just a case of "OMFG TEH IRQAS ARE SCARING ME (lets go to war quick!)"

Does Iraq even have any jets? I thought their airforce was pretty much obsolete.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » March 12, 2003, 10:21 am

Gurugurumaki wrote:
vn_Tanc wrote:It's fucking bullshit like that bomb test.
THe US has enough air power in the region to escort each U2 with a fucking 1000 bomber raid if it wants and it sure as shit isnt scared of the 2-bit Iraqi air defense system - if it was it wouldn't be flying 400 sorties a week in the no-fly zones.
It's just a case of "OMFG TEH IRQAS ARE SCARING ME (lets go to war quick!)"
Does Iraq even have any jets? I thought their airforce was pretty much obsolete.

Iraq Still has Mirage Jets and Spare parts thanks to the Piss Ant French

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » March 12, 2003, 10:39 am

kyoukan type-R wrote:
I consider Pat Buchanan to be "Hitler lite" because he has the same virulent anti-semitism, the same callous disregard for human life, and the identical lust for power that Adolf possessed.

The only difference between the two villains is the size of the ego.

Pat Buchanan does suck. He should be exiled immediately along with Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Carrot Top, any celebrity who goes on TV to show support in favor of or against the war, the guy who came up with Alf, and Searyx.

Cartalas · Post by **Cartalas** » March 12, 2003, 10:57 am

I find it Funny that this tool (Acies) Posted this. With all his the US is wrong in starting a war OMG there evil talk. The US does something to AVOID a conflict and he has to make a big ordeal out of it. You see the US could of sent a couple of F-18's to intercept the Iraq jet but no they did not they pulled back and by doing so saved a young Iraq pilots life.

Kelshara · Post by **Kelshara** » March 12, 2003, 1:54 pm

The thing is, this kind of psychological play happened every single day during the Cold War. Russia sent planes in over Norway/Alaska, Norwegian Air Force/American Air Force responded to intercept/"play" with them. It's no big deal, it is all part of the game.

As I said previously, if they had been fired upon (and U-2s aren't exactly fast getaway planes heh) it would have been bad. Sounds like they sent more planes than usual and they wanted to take a look at it. No big deal there to me.

Acies · Post by **Acies** » March 12, 2003, 4:58 pm

Cartalas wrote:I find it Funny that this tool (Acies) Posted this. With all his the US is wrong in starting a war OMG there evil talk. The US does something to AVOID a conflict and he has to make a big ordeal out of it. You see the US could of sent a couple of F-18's to intercept the Iraq jet but no they did not they pulled back and by doing so saved a young Iraq pilots life.

What I find funny is that I posted no commentary on this, and you somehow think "I" made a big deal of it.
Wake up tard, you have put more on this thread than I have by far.