If you were an organ donor....

Ravvenn · Post by **Ravvenn** » February 28, 2003, 1:06 pm

Personally, Id be pissed if I donated my organs to someone who is a murderer...

Story Below~

YORK, Neb. ( Feb. 28 ) - Calvin Stock's life was saved by a liver transplant three years ago, and he would hate to see anyone else lose their chance at survival because a convicted killer was ahead of them on the transplant list.

But that's exactly what could happen, Stock says, because of Carolyn Joy's conditional approval to be included on the list of 118 Nebraskans and 17,300 people nationwide waiting for new livers.

``She made her choice. It sounds real cruel to say that, but nonetheless, we all have choices in our life,'' said Stock, a 68-year-old retired Lexington farmer.

Joy, sentenced to life in prison for the 1983 murder of another prostitute in Omaha, admits her liver was ruined by almost daily heroin and alcohol abuse over nine years.

Stock fears people will tear up their donor cards if they learn their organs may go to felons.

``It's just going to do great damage to the organ donation program as we know it,'' he said.

The woman known as Mama Joy by other inmates at the Nebraska Correctional Center for Women has been the focus of a medical ethics debate since Omaha television station KETV first reported Feb. 3 that she had been evaluated by doctors for a possible liver transplant.

Joy, 49-years-old and drug free for nearly 20 years, said she is not surprised that others object to her possibly getting a liver.

``I know how society is,'' Joy said. ``It's like, 'Oh my gosh, she's a murderer and on top of that, she wants one of our organs? What makes her so special?'''

But the biggest complaint from the dozens of people who have called or e-mailed the Nebraska Health System in Omaha, where Joy would get the transplant, is that the state would have to pay for it, said Kolleen Thompson, manager of the hospital's Organ Recovery Services.

Taxpayers would pay up to $200,000 for Joy's transplant because of a 1976 U.S. Supreme Court ruling that prisoners have a constitutional right to equal medical care. The decision requires government entities to cover the medical costs of their inmates.

A 32-year-old California inmate last year is believed to be the nation's first prisoner to receive a heart transplant. The convicted robber died 11 months later.

Dr. Alan Langnas, head of transplant surgery at the University of Nebraska Medical Center, said doctors are only considering the transplant from the standpoint of whether Joy is medically a good candidate.

``Whether or not she's a prisoner or not does not enter the equation,'' Lagnas said. ``Ethically as a physician, it's our responsibility to be advocates for whatever patients we are treating.''

Dr. Lainie Friedman Ross with the MacLean Center for Clinical Medical Ethics at the University of Chicago, said people should receive transplants based on need, not social standards.

``I'm a workaholic, and when I get my first heart attack I'll say I've earned it but no one will keep me off a list for that,'' Ross said. ``We don't blame the workaholic but we blame the alcoholic. ... Yeah, she belongs on the list like I belong on the list.''

Bill Grimes, 76, received a heart transplant 15 years ago and helped start a support group for transplant recipients in central Nebraska called Seconds for Life.

``I just absolutely can't pass judgment on anybody,'' Grimes said. ``I feel everybody should have the same chance I had.''

Whether Joy gets a liver will depend on her. Doctors have told the 5-foot-10, 195-pound woman that she must lose 30 pounds and get her diabetes under control before they will put her on a transplant list. She's already lost 70 pounds the last two years, some because of illness.

She's given herself until mid-April to meet both goals. Once the weather warms up, she plans to restart her exercise regime of eight laps around the prison courtyard twice a day.

``The doctors that I've seen said that I need to get busy and start doing what I'm supposed to or else I won't make it to see my liver come in,'' said Joy, who wears stocking caps to hide her thinning auburn hair.

Joy says she doesn't know if she deserves a liver. She believes she has paid her debt to society and answers only to her family and God. But she says she has trouble sleeping when she thinks about all the other people who need livers.

``I want a chance just like they do,'' she said.

She said if she were to get a new liver and be paroled at her next hearing in 2006, she would take her 3-year-old grandson to the movies and watch him grow into a young man.

Joy said she would consider passing up a liver to allow someone in a more dire situation to get one, especially if the person immediately behind her on the transplant list was a young mother.

``I'd step back and let that lady have the liver because she has a child,'' Joy said. ``She has a life.''

She also has made peace with the possibility she may not get the transplant and soon die.

``I'm not going to blame nobody,'' she said.

02/28/03 01:34 EST

Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » February 28, 2003, 1:10 pm

until they pass a law that has the state refusing to pay for organ transplants for patients who don't carry their own insurance/have the means to pay for the surgury, then this will continue.

it isnt a doctor's job to decide which people are 'worthy' of receiving medical treatment. a doctor's job is to provide medical treatment.

i dont think that the 8th amendment guarantees organ transplants to criminals. i dont think it should restrict them from recieving medical treatment like this either, it should just be their responsibility to pay for the treatment.

i have a big problem with the state paying for it.

Post by **Xouqoa** » February 28, 2003, 1:11 pm

Drug and Alcohol abusers should be inelligible for organ transplants that were ruined by abusing said susbstances. Someone who takes life from an individual shouldn't really be allowed to extend their own at the cost of someone 'innocent' either, but that's just my opinion.

(edit: unless there is NOBODY else who needs the organ.... I guess if nobody else needs it they might as well receive it)

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » February 28, 2003, 1:14 pm

i agree with that xouqua unless there was at a certain time a "surplus" of available tissue.

since organs have really zero 'shelf-life' better to put it in somebody than let it rot.

i think though if i were an insurance underwriter i wouldnt pay for a transplant to a documented alcoholic/drug user who thoroughly trashed their own body. i'd make them pay for that shit themselves. but again, i don't have a problem with them getting the organ if they pay for it.

the fact that they, as well as criminals, would have to pay out of pocket for the procedure would of course get rid of 99% of the cases, i recognize that as well.

but tough shit.

Ravvenn · Post by **Ravvenn** » February 28, 2003, 1:26 pm

Voronwë wrote:
i have a big problem with the state paying for it.

For a criminal, yes. For someone who has paid their taxes, worked and no longer can due to illness, I support any form of medical assistance - to those who deserve it.

Im guessing you were refering to having a problem with the state paying for it in a case like the hooker killer and not your average person who just flat out cant afford a procedure that they are 'worthy' of getting.

Personally, I think they should 'rank' people on what place they get in 'line' for organs. I think drug users/alcoholics - recovering or not should be at the bottom right above the people who are rapists, killers etc.

There have been people who have gotten more than one liver transplant just because they have the money to purchase new ones to give them 10 more years of drinking before they need to replace it again..(George Best is a fine example) Its BS that people who cant afford it die waiting while these drunken cocks basically have an 'on-call transplant connection'

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » February 28, 2003, 1:30 pm

yes i have a problem with the state paying for criminals to receive transplants.

for poor people, i am in favor of some sort of government health care for those who cannot afford, but i dont want to derail the topic onto that subject

Midnyte_Ragebringer · February 28, 2003, 1:30 pm

I'm with Ravvenn.

Once your in prison, I don't think you should be afforded any costly expenditures. Depending on the crime of course.

Akaran_D · Post by **Akaran_D** » February 28, 2003, 1:39 pm

/agree

If you're in jail for murder, why the hell should we donate anything to you?

I'm of the belief that if you die in prision, organ donation should be Mandatory, not Optional.. and I do mean reduce that sucker down to every part that just can't be used.

Skin: grafts
Eyes: replacement retnias and cornias
Kidneys, Lungs, Liver, Heart, Bladder: replacement pieces
Bone marrow: lekemia (sp bad) paitents
Blood: drain the f'er.
Muscle tissue: grafts
Intestinal tissue: can this beused?

And if you really want to get efficent, grind up the bones for the calcium.
Either burn or use the rest of the tissues for fertilizer..

Yes, I am an organ donor, and yes, I am offended by this.
I just hope that when I go I leave enough parts of my body in good shape for someone to make use of them.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » February 28, 2003, 1:47 pm

I need new blood. So vary tired...

Deward · Post by **Deward** » February 28, 2003, 2:32 pm

I think if you have been convicted of a serious violent crime then you should not be eligible for any organ donations. Other people are working to contribute to this society and some worthless fuck in prison is taking organs. This is rediculous.

This is almost as bad as that Mexican illegal sneaking across the border to get transplants. I have no problem with non-americans getting transplants here but why the hell should we pay for it. And now the girl's parents are pondering sueing for negliglence. The negligence really doesn't surprise me when a half-dead girl shows up in your emergency room and pushes 2 people down the list for organ transplants.

I am sorry if this makes me sound cold hearted but useful members of our society should get priority. I also think that any person under the age of 30 should also get priority. What is the point of giving a 70 year old man a heart transplant when he will likely be dead in at most 10 years. Give that heart to a child and you have 50 years that the child could contribute to society.

My wife is a nurse and she has had at least 2 patients who got transplants after ruining their organs abusing drugs. I believe these people should be pushed down the list but not off it. If you were stupid in your youth and and then 20 years later found out your liver was fucked then we should help these people if they have changed their lives in the meantime. Nearly everyone did some stupid shit when they were young that they may regret.

Deward

Cracc · Post by **Cracc** » February 28, 2003, 2:33 pm

people are people, killers or not.

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » February 28, 2003, 2:45 pm

Shourd this arso appry to PK servers in EQ...I thinks so~

Acies · Post by **Acies** » February 28, 2003, 3:03 pm

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:I'm with Ravvenn.

Once your in prison, I don't think you should be afforded any costly expenditures. Depending on the crime of course.

Do you believe in the possiblity of redemtion?

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » February 28, 2003, 3:06 pm

burning rapier is a good quest =D

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » February 28, 2003, 3:09 pm

doesn't the constitution guarantee state and federal prisoners the right to equal medical treatment?

edit: nm the article says they do

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » February 28, 2003, 3:10 pm

By denying prisoners medical care in the form of organ transplants, based only on the fact that they're criminals, they're basically being sentenced to death.

I don't agree with this. I tend to waver back and forth on my opinion of the death penalty, but if death wasn't what they were sentenced to by the courts, then they should be eligible for transplants. That's for the justice system to decide, not the medical community.

Dr. Alan Langnas, head of transplant surgery at the University of Nebraska Medical Center, said doctors are only considering the transplant from the standpoint of whether Joy is medically a good candidate.

^^ I think that's exactly how they should look at it.

As an organ donor, I can't say that I'd be thrilled to know that my eyes, liver, heart, etc. were going to some rapist... especially knowing that government money is paying for it. =/ But morally I just don't have the stomach to advocate letting prisoners die slowly.

Sirensa · Post by **Sirensa** » February 28, 2003, 3:25 pm

Deward wrote:This is almost as bad as that Mexican illegal sneaking across the border to get transplants. I have no problem with non-americans getting transplants here but why the hell should we pay for it. And now the girl's parents are pondering sueing for negliglence. The negligence really doesn't surprise me when a half-dead girl shows up in your emergency room and pushes 2 people down the list for organ transplants.

She snuck across the border 4 years ago and has been on a transplant list for 3 years. Probably could have gained citizenship in that amount of time were it necessary. I would ponder suing for negligence as well if my child was given an organ that didn't match her blood type - and I wouldn't care if it was in this country or another. By accepting her as a patient, they are responsible for providing adequate care. And they accepted her as a patient.

I'm not sure how I feel about prisoners receiving organ transplants. I don't feel it is my place to play god or jury to someone's right to live after they have already been tried for their crime, especially if there is a chance they will be re-released into society.

I wish it were possible that everyone was capable of receiving equal medical care.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » February 28, 2003, 3:29 pm

denying the procedure and refusing to pay for the procedure are different things.

the question becomes what falls under the umbrella of 'basic medical treatment'.

another factor is that criminals very rarely have their own health insurance (as there is no need since their health care is provided free of even a copayment) and the state pays for all procedures.

obviously the state wouldnt pay for cosmetic surgury for a criminal in jail.

let's say that a criminal had advanced liver cancer, and there was an experimental treatment available, but at great expense.

should the state pay the extra amount for treatment beyond the normal regime?

my answer is: fuck no

sorry if you have killed people, you dont all of a sudden get IMPROVED health care over other uninsured people in the general population.

what kind of treatment does an uninsured organ recipient get who is a normal law-abiding citizen?

i think that is an important question to answer. I'm sure hospitals aren't exactly jumping to eat the cost of those patients.

i totally disagree with the statement that denying an organ transplant is a death sentence.

there is MASSIVE difference between a state strapping somebody into a chair and pumping tons of volts through somebody causing their death and a person's heart failing due to bad genentics, bad lifestyle, or bad luck.

both result in death, but one is natural causes the other is execution. there is no equating the two.

Ajran · Post by **Ajran** » February 28, 2003, 3:38 pm

Sunserae wrote:By denying prisoners medical care in the form of organ transplants, based only on the fact that they're criminals, they're basically being sentenced to death.

if the person was sentenced to life without parole then they already are sentenced to death in prison.. those people should definately not be eligible for transplants..

the others in prison.. i don't know..

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » February 28, 2003, 3:40 pm

but you aren't allowed to have money while you are in prison so how could you pay for an operation?

while you are in prison your assets are frozen aren't they?

Ajran · Post by **Ajran** » February 28, 2003, 3:42 pm

I have to agree with Voro there. why should a convicted felon get better medical treatment then joe blow going to work everyday supporting his family..

should be like loot in EQ.. FFA if its gonna rot..

Ajran · Post by **Ajran** » February 28, 2003, 3:43 pm

kyoukan type-R wrote:but you aren't allowed to have money while you are in prison so how could you pay for an operation?

while you are in prison your assets are frozen aren't they?

Who cares.. whose fault is it they are in prison to begin with.. I can see it now..

If i was disgnosed with cancer and given say 5 years to live unless i got some sort of transplant.. hell go do some crime where i'd get 5 years in prison they'd have to treat me and put me on an organ donor's list and if i'm lucky i get free Kemo, and a free organ transplant out of it.. get out of jail and live the rest of my life healthy..

Shainral · Post by **Shainral** » February 28, 2003, 3:49 pm

Anyone who thinks an inmate whould receive an organ transplant for any reason at all, even if their crime was a "minor" one ... is fucked.

How do I know ? or How can I say this ? .. Been a correctional officer for about 4 years now and lemme say this. Fuck inmates and fuck their sympathizers.

Inmates are pieces of shit, no wait, useless pieces of shit. Once you've been prosecuted and sentenced to a prison or correctional facility, your are no longer an active/poductive member of society. We, the tax payers, now have to fork over the money to house, feed, educate, excersice, entertain and provide health care to inmates. You can no vote and no longer have a name, instead, you are now called 315432. (at least that's what the new state numbers are in VA).

To all those who sympathize with inmates, all I have to say is work in a jail or prison. Have a shit n piss shake thrown on you, be spit on, stabbed at, punched, kicked ect.. Yes , we correctional officers/prison guards realize what we are getting into and accept that part of the job. But when I read shit like that .... Fuck em all

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » February 28, 2003, 3:56 pm

well ajran, innocent people do go to prison.

i'm not sure about assets being frozen or not.

i have a big problem with the state paying for the procedure though. I dont see it as all as a granted right to have your life extended beyond its natural capability, and that is what an organ transplant is.

i think a prisoner can be treated humanely and in keeping with a civilized society and still not be granted certain extreme health care procedures.

i dont see it as something that is in the interest of the state to do either. almost every state can barely fund their education system adequately right now because of budget shortfalls due to the economic slowdown. a few prisoner transplants a year per state is several hundred thousand dollars in medical expenses. i think you do more for society by allocating those funds (as meager as they are by state budget standards) elsewhere. and that is the ultimate responsibility of the government.

Acies · Post by **Acies** » February 28, 2003, 4:32 pm

shainral wrote:Anyone who thinks an inmate whould receive an organ transplant for any reason at all, even if their crime was a "minor" one ... is fucked.

How do I know ? or How can I say this ? .. Been a correctional officer for about 4 years now and lemme say this. Fuck inmates and fuck their sympathizers.

Inmates are pieces of shit, no wait, useless pieces of shit. Once you've been prosecuted and sentenced to a prison or correctional facility, your are no longer an active/poductive member of society. We, the tax payers, now have to fork over the money to house, feed, educate, excersice, entertain and provide health care to inmates. You can no vote and no longer have a name, instead, you are now called 315432. (at least that's what the new state numbers are in VA).

To all those who sympathize with inmates, all I have to say is work in a jail or prison. Have a shit n piss shake thrown on you, be spit on, stabbed at, punched, kicked ect.. Yes , we correctional officers/prison guards realize what we are getting into and accept that part of the job. But when I read shit like that .... Fuck em all

You know there ARE innocent people that are sent to prison because of flaws in our justice system.
So, for example let us imagine that, I do not know, I had killed a man that was robbing myself and my girlfriend at gun/knife point.
Then I was convicted of manslaughter.
You saying fuck me too?
Nono, FUCK YOU sir.

Ajran · Post by **Ajran** » February 28, 2003, 4:35 pm

Acies wrote:You know there ARE innocent people that are sent to prison because of flaws in our justice system.
So, for example let us imagine that, I do not know, I had killed a man that was robbing myself and my girlfriend at gun/knife point.
Then I was convicted of manslaughter.
You saying fuck me too?
Nono, FUCK YOU sir.

no i think it would be more ilke fuck your attorney

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » February 28, 2003, 4:41 pm

easy to say if you are white and can afford something better than the public defender.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » February 28, 2003, 4:42 pm

/agree Voronwe.

There is a big difference between basic medical care and an organ transplant.

Ajran · Post by **Ajran** » February 28, 2003, 4:46 pm

Voronwë wrote:easy to say if you are white and can afford something better than the public defender.

Ah okay so all non-whites are in prison unjustly and thus all deserve transplants..

how did i know race would become an issue..

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » February 28, 2003, 4:58 pm

Ajran wrote:
Voronwë wrote:easy to say if you are white and can afford something better than the public defender.
Ah okay so all non-whites are in prison unjustly and thus all deserve transplants..

how did i know race would become an issue..

YES I"M ARGUING FOR BLACK FELONS TO MOVE TO THE TOP OF THE TRANSPLANT LIST!!!

stfu

Ravvenn · Post by **Ravvenn** » February 28, 2003, 5:03 pm

Acies wrote:You know there ARE innocent people that are sent to prison because of flaws in our justice system.
So, for example let us imagine that, I do not know, I had killed a man that was robbing myself and my girlfriend at gun/knife point.
Then I was convicted of manslaughter.
You saying fuck me too?
Nono, FUCK YOU sir.

Thing is, SHE ADMITTED TO IT.
She is not innocent, didnt deny shit. She went on a hooker killing spree.
She says she wants a chance like everyone else, said shed let a young mother hop in line..how nice. Just like all rapists and killers say they are 'sorry', I dont buy it.

Its a little late. She took it upon herself to kill people, she took it upon herself to fuck up the liver she has.

She isnt innocent, she damaged her own liver. She does not deserve a new one or even a spot on the list.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » February 28, 2003, 5:32 pm

masteen wrote:I need new blood. So vary tired...

Your poor liver needs a rest

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » February 28, 2003, 5:33 pm

fine then change the constitution to deny inmates equal medical treatment under the law.

while you're at that I'm sure there's about 150 million people with a list of changes they would like to see too. we'll just add those in after you are done.

I'm glad the penal system has such wonderful people like Shainral working for them. There's no better way to foster an atmosphere of reform than a bunch of bitter CO's who look down on them as less than human day after day.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » February 28, 2003, 5:37 pm

Acies wrote:So, for example let us imagine that, I do not know, I had killed a man that was robbing myself and my girlfriend at gun/knife point.
Then I was convicted of manslaughter.

You need to live in a different state, it very likely wouldn't even go to court here.

Criminal hurts himself while breaking into your house? Damn the bad luck, he's lucky he wasn't shot as well.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » February 28, 2003, 5:37 pm

Liver is EVIL and must be punished!!!

Ajran · Post by **Ajran** » February 28, 2003, 5:39 pm

Aabidano wrote:
Acies wrote:So, for example let us imagine that, I do not know, I had killed a man that was robbing myself and my girlfriend at gun/knife point.
Then I was convicted of manslaughter.
You need to live in a different state, it very likely wouldn't even go to court here.

Criminal hurts himself while breaking into your house? Damn the bad luck, he's lucky he wasn't shot as well.

that was pretty much my original point to his argument.. someone decided to bring race into it at that point..

Ajran · Post by **Ajran** » February 28, 2003, 5:39 pm

Voronwë wrote:
Ajran wrote:
Voronwë wrote:easy to say if you are white and can afford something better than the public defender.
Ah okay so all non-whites are in prison unjustly and thus all deserve transplants..

how did i know race would become an issue..
YES I"M ARGUING FOR BLACK FELONS TO MOVE TO THE TOP OF THE TRANSPLANT LIST!!!

stfu

One generality deserves another

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » February 28, 2003, 5:40 pm

kyoukan type-R wrote:There's no better way to foster an atmosphere of reform than a bunch of bitter CO's who look down on them as less than human day after day.

Prison sentences more than ~10 years aren't for reform. It's for punishment, which is really pointless when you think about it.

Anyway, if you damage your own liver, pay for it yourself.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » February 28, 2003, 5:44 pm

Aabidano wrote:Anyway, if you damage your own liver, pay for it yourself.

But I paid for teh booze and drugs! Isn't that like double jeopardy or something?

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » February 28, 2003, 5:46 pm

Number one, if you have a history of abusing your own body in the way this woman does, your ass needs to be all the way at the bottom of the list for any organ replacement, inmate or not.

Second, prisons aren't about reform. They are about removing people from societies they have proven by their actions to be unable to live within.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » February 28, 2003, 5:54 pm

prison is about reform

otherwise you wouldnt release the people back into society.

it is multipurpose.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » February 28, 2003, 5:56 pm

Fallanthas wrote:Second, prisons aren't about reform. They are about removing people from societies they have proven by their actions to be unable to live within.

Then why imprison them? Three strikes your out should really mean out IMO. You've repeatedly shown your a peice of crap that can't function as part of decent society. Hang 'em.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » February 28, 2003, 6:08 pm

if you don't try to reform prisoners then all you are doing is letting people back out into a society as better criminals than when they went in. if not to reform them then the only solution is to execute everyone that gets convicted of a crime.

hi you're a stupid asshole.

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » February 28, 2003, 6:10 pm

Wheres a Bible when you need one

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » February 28, 2003, 6:21 pm

the bible predominantly teachest forgiveness; especially the new testament. but it really has no place in modern reformatory practices anyway.

Gurugurumaki · Post by **Gurugurumaki** » February 28, 2003, 6:22 pm

sure does, dont fuck with the Old Testament...Hate man, pure hate

Axien_Dellusions · Post by **Axien_Dellusions** » February 28, 2003, 7:00 pm

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness."

I'm going to go against the grain here and say that she does deserve the organ transplant. Denying someone the right to life would be going against the basic ideals and principals our country was built on, criminal or not. There are certain rights a criminal should have and there are some that they shouldn't have. I'm not saying criminals should have the right to look at porn mags, smoke or watch TV but I do believe that criminals should be able to live healthly throughout thier sentence.

Okay she destroyed her own body buy using drugs and alcohol, some people brought into this world can't help their predisposition to using them. 56% of children born in the past 10 years are born dependent on either alcohol or some form of drug.

Voronwe brought up a good point earlier in the thread. [/quote]it isnt a doctor's job to decide which people are 'worthy' of receiving medical treatment. a doctor's job is to provide medical treatment.

To decide who gets an organ and who doesn't is up to the lottery system that the organ donor associate sets up doesn't it?

She admitted she was guilty of committing the murders, there have been cases where people with life without parole have gotten out due to appeals, jailhouse crowding (2 murders were realeased in Texas that were serving lwop) or various other reasons. Our justice system was set up that way.

Axien Dellusions

Axien_Dellusions · Post by **Axien_Dellusions** » February 28, 2003, 7:01 pm

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness."

I'm going to go against the grain here and say that she does deserve the organ transplant. Denying someone the right to life would be going against the basic ideals and principals our country was built on, criminal or not. There are certain rights a criminal should have and there are some that they shouldn't have. I'm not saying criminals should have the right to look at porn mags, smoke or watch TV but I do believe that criminals should be able to live healthly throughout thier sentence.

Okay she destroyed her own body buy using drugs and alcohol, some people brought into this world can't help their predisposition to using them. 56% of children born in the past 10 years are born dependent on either alcohol or some form of drug.

Voronwe brought up a good point earlier in the thread. [/quote]it isnt a doctor's job to decide which people are 'worthy' of receiving medical treatment. a doctor's job is to provide medical treatment.

To decide who gets an organ and who doesn't is up to the lottery system that the organ donor associate sets up doesn't it?

She admitted she was guilty of committing the murders, there have been cases where people with life without parole have gotten out due to appeals, jailhouse crowding (2 murders were realeased in Texas that were serving lwop) or various other reasons. Our justice system was set up that way.

Axien Dellusion

masteen · Post by **masteen** » February 28, 2003, 7:02 pm

Hanging's too good for 'em. Burning's too good for 'em. They should be torn into little bitty pieces, and buried alive!!!

Ajran · Post by **Ajran** » February 28, 2003, 7:02 pm

Axien_Dellusions wrote:"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness."

While that's true, convicted felons LOSE OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of their rights.. in many states they can never carry a firearm again for example. they have no voting privledges...

-Ajran