War protesters...

masteen · Post by **masteen** » February 27, 2003, 4:45 pm

meet the Devil's advocate.

This link shamelessly stolen from the Triton webpage.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » February 27, 2003, 5:05 pm

nice little film =)

i'm sure he probably did speak to some people who could answer his questions, but edited them out for effect. but that is purely speculation, as i havent been to one of these rallies, and couldnt say if they are 100% full of dipshits or not

Atokal · Post by **Atokal** » February 27, 2003, 5:59 pm

He posed a very good question that is relevant to the protesters on this board that say it is all about oil.

Why didn't the USA take control of the oil at the end of the Gulf War?

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » February 27, 2003, 6:00 pm

Atokal wrote:He posed a very good question that is relevant to the protesters on this board that say it is all about oil.

Why didn't the USA take control of the oil at the end of the Gulf War?

actually it is a stupid question.

the mission of the first gulf war was to liberate Kuwait from Iraqi invasion.

that was done. the mandate was not to invade Iraq, topple the government, and install a US miltary leader as the provisional governor of Iraq...things that will happen this calender year.

Oil is only part of the equation. There are people in the Bush white house who feel like this war will start a tide that will change the political climate of that region. That is why they are pushing it the way that they are. They feel like if they can install a representative government that it will kind of signal a paradigm shift in the way that governments in the region operate.

all of that is important in part because of the oil. for instance we dont give a fuck about the ruthless dictators and genocidal campaigns in central Africa. that shit will continue for the next century if not longer probably, and we won't worry about it at all.

the second part of the equation beyond oil is terrorism. NOt so much that Iraq is a legitimate terror threat to the US. That case has yet to be proven in anything beyond circumstantial speculation. but the region at large certainly fosters a lot of Anti-US sentiment, and really breeds it. so stabilizing the region in a manner that will work to end this sort of anti-Western sentiment is certainly in the long term strategic interest of the US.

The caveat is that this military operation may in fact not only fail in doing any of the above, it may polarize the opposition even further (if that is possible).

hard to know.

but yeah, after the war is over, you will see some American companies with some fat distributor rights working with Iraqi oil producers. We won't get the spoils of war so to speak, but we will get preferential negotiating rights with the new government, and that will in the end translate to some money for American petrochemical corporations perhaps.

Atokal · Post by **Atokal** » February 27, 2003, 6:10 pm

Voronwë wrote:
Atokal wrote:He posed a very good question that is relevant to the protesters on this board that say it is all about oil.

Why didn't the USA take control of the oil at the end of the Gulf War?
actually it is a stupid question.

the mission of the first gulf war was to liberate Kuwait from Iraqi invasion.

that was done. the mandate was not to invade Iraq, topple the government, and install a US miltary leader as the provisional governor of Iraq...things that will happen this calender year.

Editted after reading Voro's editted version.

After reading your post Voro I see your point very interesting and definately worth watching for.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » February 27, 2003, 6:12 pm

Ari Flescher has said "it is the policy of this administration for regime change in Iraq."

he was saying that as early as last august/sept.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » February 27, 2003, 6:12 pm

I think that before we can say "No blood for oil," we need to know the exchange rate

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » February 27, 2003, 6:19 pm

Given our history with "installed governments" failure is likely. With our 4 year focus shifts, will we stay and make sure it sticks? Or will we abandon them to Taliban Mk2.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » February 27, 2003, 6:22 pm

hehe.

well maybe i'm just cynical, but i just don't feel like the White House is really being even 20% honest about the real motivation for war.

The war is going to happen, and it was always going to be that way, going back to sometime last summer, if not earlier. And i don't know why.

i dont buy any of the blanket consipiracy theories that of course are shot down by the video, because yeah they are simplistic. like just about oil, etc.

i also dont buy the white house explanations =).

so basically, i dont know why we are so dead set on this war, but i do know we are dead set on this war.

Marbus · Post by **Marbus** » February 27, 2003, 6:22 pm

LOL Masteen

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » February 27, 2003, 6:23 pm

we did very well installing the government in Japan.

remember we didnt even leave Okinawa till like 1972.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » February 27, 2003, 6:35 pm

We also did a lot rebuilding Germany

At least the Japanese know what gratitude is.

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » February 27, 2003, 6:36 pm

crick me

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » February 27, 2003, 6:41 pm

Christ Voro, they should've interviewed you

The only thing more unbelievable than some of these protestors is a government as powerful as America suggesting that the only solution is war.

Fallanthas · Post by **Fallanthas** » February 27, 2003, 7:25 pm

You know, more and more you anti-war types are sounding like my wife when we try to decide on a restaurant.

"Well, where shall we go tonight?"

"I dunno."

"How about Italian?"

"No, I don't really want Italian."

"Ok, so where do you want to go?"

"I dunno."

"How about a steak?"

"No, I don't want a steak."

"Ok, you pick a spot then."

"I don't know."

Ad infinitum

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » February 27, 2003, 7:32 pm

hey i think that there is some legitimacy to the fact that some consequence needs to be enacted due to lack of compliance with 1441.

i am not foolish enough to believe however that this non-compliance with 1441 (drafted at the end of 2002) is the genesis for this war (which started had its political genesis in mid 2002, including some troop movement in advance of 1441).

do i think that regime change is a proper consequence for this violation, not sure. we are all working with limited sets of information. If the US government has any real dirt, they are keeping it a secret, and i have to believe that they know something that they dont want other people to know.

either that, or this war is simply an attempt to re-engineer the entire political playing field in that part of the world, and is truly an unprovoked offensive action.

that may even be a smart choice, but it certainly isnt the sales pitch.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » February 27, 2003, 8:21 pm

Nice. 200k at that rally and he kept going back to the same 5 people and asking them leading questions.

WOW ALL PEACE PROTESTERS R DUM LOL LETS ROLL GO BUSH

Cracc · Post by **Cracc** » February 28, 2003, 12:31 pm

And you can bet your ass only the dumbest people interveiwed made that video after editing.