The Powell and Bush comedy show

[Acies]

Sorry, I am posting again. I can't stay away

Welcome back Acies... your side can use all the help it can get here.

I'm sure you realize that my side has history, facts, and intellectual honesty going for it.

Your side has Kooky... "Sound and fury, signifying nothing."

Wow, such profound wisdom in that, like all of your arguements.
/sacrasm off

What the fuck are you talking about Metanis? I mean, do not get me wrong, you make a good arguement for "lets kill Iraq", but that comment made no sense. Allow me to dissect it.

History: What history are you refering to? I think the only history "your" side is famous for can be found in Flordia graveyards.

Facts: Again, I ask you, what facts have your side provided? Have you produced this evidence that President Shrub can't, on these boards nonetheless? I have not seen any of it. I have seen a bunch of people support killing on your side, that IS a fact. Frankly, until you take a human life, stfu. You do not know dick about it, or what that does to you.
I, on another hand, can state from a "factual" standpoint on this. It is, for me, not about oil, or terror, o Saddam or Bush, it is about murder.

Intellectual Honesty: OMG, you are so lovely Metanis. This is like the perfect alley-oop to slam dunk your ass. Here, I will clarify:
You claim to have intellectual honesty. But, according to everything I read, and everyone's responses, you were not very intellectual. In fact, no one is, because there really is not a way to justify war or not too. This whole thing is just an exersize in debate, really.
However, you think that makes you intellectual, which proves you are stupid. And whats further, you lie about being intellectual, either to everyone or yourself, so there goes the honesty.
EDIT: Addition to this post:

On top of what Brotha posted, 16 of the 19 members of NATO support the war in Iraq. Belgium, France, and Germany are the only two that don't.

Yeah UBAH intelligence there...


Anyway, "my side" (If we are going off liberal vs conservative here) thinks that war is a poor solution to this problem, your side encourages the war.
Let me reiterate here:
My side says "Let's find an alternative to slaughter"
Your side says "Saddam is a potential threat and needs to be stopped"

Okay, I say we comprimise. Send is some Spec Ops and murder Saddam and his son, and anyone else who would continue his regime.
If the Iraqi people want liberation so bad, they will take the lead after we do this. However, if you and Shrub are wrong, then we will have war and they will have the initative.
What say you?

[Fallanthas]

Okay, I say we comprimise. Send is some Spec Ops and murder Saddam and his son, and anyone else who would continue his regime.
If the Iraqi people want liberation so bad, they will take the lead after we do this. However, if you and Shrub are wrong, then we will have war and they will have the initative.
What say you?

Man I wish it were that easy. I think Kyoukan pointed out about two week ago, you would ahve to kill off around a hundred people scattered in differnt locations to accomplish this. Not exactly a "spec-op" situation.

Which brings up the next wuestion. Who steps in after Saddam is gone?

[Metanis]

Sorry, I am posting again. I can't stay away

Welcome back Acies... your side can use all the help it can get here.

I'm sure you realize that my side has history, facts, and intellectual honesty going for it.

Your side has Kooky... "Sound and fury, signifying nothing."

Wow, such profound wisdom in that, like all of your arguements.
/sacrasm off

It's Friday afternoon! I won't subject the board to my response to Acies.

You all have a good weekend!

/camp

5 seconds...

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

40 million Americans living under the poverty line. 50 million Americans without health care.

On a personal level, how about grandparents that cannot afford thier fucking medications so they drive to canada evry 6 months and pay cash for a 6 month supply at 1/10th the price. I have an uncle that is the most disenchanted Vietnam Vet I have ever met. He was drafted at age 19 and thrown away when the war was over, but only after having lost 2 brothers in the war. My best frined teaches school in a Detroit subarb that's using computers from the late 90's in thier "computer lab". My GF has a $40,000.00 student loan to pay off, but no high paying jobs are available thanks to the current economic suck.

It disgusts me to see another 900 million dollar jet being made for a war against a country that can't even feed it's own people.

None of that is easy.

Man you are sad. Someone could point out the blessings you enjoy in nearly every sentence of your post. You sir, are a whiny crybaby asshole who wouldn't recognize good fortune if it bit you in the ass.

Unfortunately, way too many are just like this. This morning at work here, we had our monthly floor meeting. About a hundred people or so at this thing. They opened the floor and the 2 things that seemed to be most important to these people was the fact that seniority plays a role in requested vacation days and the fact that people need to stop burning popcorn in the microwave, because it smells bad. /sigh

[Forthe]

Bottom line, we in the U.S. are prospering, by and large. We have more personal freedom than any other developed country. Your post was horseshit from the first capital to the last period

How exactly do you have more personal freedom than canadians, germans, british, swedish, etc etc?

I'd contend with the FBI, CIA, NSA you have much less. Throw in the electorate and it looks worse.

[Fallanthas]

I get to choose my health care provider.


I get to choose where 60% of my paycheck goes.

[Acies]

40 million Americans living under the poverty line. 50 million Americans without health care.

On a personal level, how about grandparents that cannot afford thier fucking medications so they drive to canada evry 6 months and pay cash for a 6 month supply at 1/10th the price. I have an uncle that is the most disenchanted Vietnam Vet I have ever met. He was drafted at age 19 and thrown away when the war was over, but only after having lost 2 brothers in the war. My best frined teaches school in a Detroit subarb that's using computers from the late 80's in thier "computer lab". My GF has a $40,000.00 student loan to pay off, but no high paying jobs are available thanks to the current economic suck.

It disgusts me to see another 900 million dollar jet being made for a war against a country that can't even feed it's own people.

None of that is easy.

Actually this is VERY true. I work for a HMO/PPO, and yes, this is sadly the case. Medicare and Medicare replacement plans do not do dick for RX.

[Acies]

Sorry, I am posting again. I can't stay away

Welcome back Acies... your side can use all the help it can get here.

I'm sure you realize that my side has history, facts, and intellectual honesty going for it.

Your side has Kooky... "Sound and fury, signifying nothing."

Wow, such profound wisdom in that, like all of your arguements.
/sacrasm off

It's Friday afternoon! I won't subject the board to my response to Acies.

You all have a good weekend!

/camp

5 seconds...

You too bro, nothing personal
Enjoy the weekend.

[Fairweather Pure]

No, I do have good fortune, but I am not blind to the struggle of those around me. When so many people that I know and love are getting caught up in the system, I cannot help but become very disenchanted.

Politics is very much like religion to me. I truley wish that I could trust and believe everything my government tells me. I also wish I had the innate comfort that religious people feel. Unfortunately I can't put solid faith in either due to what I witness everyday.

I do indeed see many great things in America. However, more and more it's turning into a "me" society, and that is forcing me into a "me" mentality as well. I don't trust the governmet, and I can barely keep my own head above water, much less help out those less fortunate than me. Listening to my grandfather point out the basic wrongs of our country has affected me greatly. I believe he lived in a much different and greater America than me. He has seen the decline through the years and it troubles him and frustrates me.

In reguards to my rewording of Midnyte's post, that was merely to show how everything is subjective to individual perspective. Change a couple of words around and the main points are eerily the same.

[Acies]

Okay, I say we comprimise. Send is some Spec Ops and murder Saddam and his son, and anyone else who would continue his regime.
If the Iraqi people want liberation so bad, they will take the lead after we do this. However, if you and Shrub are wrong, then we will have war and they will have the initative.
What say you?

Man I wish it were that easy. I think Kyoukan pointed out about two week ago, you would ahve to kill off around a hundred people scattered in differnt locations to accomplish this. Not exactly a "spec-op" situation.

Which brings up the next wuestion. Who steps in after Saddam is gone?

Hell, issue a puppet figurehead and appoint him to power, or at least support him in his bid. Make sure that he knows exactly why he is there and to keep the peace, and help his country. It won't come down to that though, America would simply have him deplete virtually all of their natural resources feeding our needs, then we have another government pissed at us.
I think the best solution is to just walk away from there, and not look back. Let Asia take care (or destroy) itself.

A bunch of people I know have a saying of "Let the unworthy destroy themselves". It is a simple policy that is suprisingly effective.

[Fallanthas]

Again, I wish it were that simple.


The Middle East is too large a region to just walk away from. Isolationish just flat doesn't work.

[Acies]

Again, I wish it were that simple.


The Middle East is too large a region to just walk away from. Isolationish just flat doesn't work.

Not isolationism, but draft a policy of non-involvement. Drill for oil in Alaska, there are reserves up there, enough to support our country for a long while. However, I would not like it if they screwed up the landscape up there, but since we pushed alt fuel sources under the table to make our 5% populous richer, I suppose things like that have to come in second place when we have to support the upper class.
/shrug

[noel]

Again, I wish it were that simple.


The Middle East is too large a region to just walk away from. Isolationish just flat doesn't work.

Not isolationism, but draft a policy of non-involvement. Drill for oil in Alaska, there are reserves up there, enough to support our country for a long while. However, I would not like it if they screwed up the landscape up there, but since we pushed alt fuel sources under the table to make our 5% populous richer, I suppose things like that have to come in second place when we have to support the upper class.
/shrug

Why would we want to drill our own oil, when we can buy someone elses instead? That oil gives us a strategic advantage both now and in the future.

[Fallanthas]

Non-involvement = isolationism


The only way you could avoid being put into this type of situation eventually would be to ignore the rest of the planet completely. That's risky from a defense standpoint and selfish as hell from a moral one.

[kyoukan]

I would prefer Saddam show proof he has destroyed all his WOMD and liberate his people and funnel the riches his country makes on oil down to his people and improve his infrastructure and technology and allow his people freedom and discourage some of the barbaric ,wacky, religous-based non-sense that makes others feel so un-easy.

jesus you make me sad.

what riches? iraq is broke. they've been hit with crippling sanctions since 1991.

god every time I think about how fucking stupid you are it makes me want to cry because you are the majority down there.

[Mak]

what riches? iraq is broke. they've been hit with crippling sanctions since 1991.

Which hasn't stopped Saddam from having dozens of those extremely plush "presidential palaces" scattered throughout the country.

[kyoukan]

Nevermind Xyun. It's an adult thing. Doesn't surprise me in the least that you missed it.


Fair,

40 million out of 550 million? I would say that's doing pretty damned good.

you don't even remotely know the population of your own country?

you aren't even right if the margin of error was ninety-five percent

why do people debate with you? its futile. you really are that fucking stupid?

[Sueven]

When is the last time you had to skip a meal, Fair?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... s&n=507846

Check that book out!

And the population of the United States is 280,562,489. Keep in mind that 280 million is a few hundred million less than what you think. But good for you, keep arguing using facts and the weight of history!

Source: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac ... tml#People

Kyou: They're not a majority, they didn't even win the popular vote...

[kyoukan]

Which hasn't stopped Saddam from having dozens of those extremely plush "presidential palaces" scattered throughout the country.

okay wise ass then why don't you tell us how much oil Iraq has sold for cash in the last decade and a half.

[Fallanthas]

Yeah, I pooched that one. Just double checked, estimated population is just over 290 million.




You stupid cunt, there was a piece aired internationally less than two months ago on Saddam fulleling 300-400 million dollars of aid money into his own personal coffers.

Please keep defending him though. You look more ignorant and biased by the minute.

[kyoukan]

Yeah I think I will debate foreign affairs with someone who was off on the population of his own country by 270 million people. Arguing with people that poorly informed is a hobby of mine.

[cid]

Sup dudes! What's going on in this thread.

[Fallanthas]

Wouldn't be the fact that you can't logically argue your point I suppose?


Claiming Saddam has no money. That isn't even funny, it's sad.

[supermojo]

I only had time to read the first page, but I saw enough stupidity to make me want to reply. First, as to crossing the US border. It is not nearly as hard as people think that it is. First off, we have over a thousand miles of border with Canada, and we cannot patrol every foot. It is quite easy for people to cross the border. It is done every day from Mexico. how do yo think that all these poor illegal aliens are getting into the country, they are not buying airline tickets.

As to the fact that we are doing this for oil, that is part of the reason. It may even be part of the overall reason that we are doing this. However, if Saddam had not invaded Kuwait the first time, we would not have the oppurtunity for this. Just because oil is a factor in our decision to invade Iraq, does not take away from any of the other motivations.

Saddam of course has weapons of mass destruction. We knew he had them before, and to think that he would stop making them is senseless. Iraq may be letting the UN inspect their facilities, but who is to say that these are the only facilities that they have. Most of the people are giving the benefit of the doubt to a crazy man that has already invaded another country and tried to eradicate a minority in his own country. Why do you want to believe Saddam Hussien, a man who has everything to gain from convincing the world that he no longer has these weapons. This seems to be a misplacement of your trust.

As to the fact that a large number of innocent people will die in the conflict, this is immaterial. Numerous innocent people die in every war, but you cannot decide national policy or world policy on the fact that people will die. Letting Saddam stay in power has the potential for getting more people killed. This man has proven that he is ruthless and will do whatever is neccesary to get what he wants, even killing his own family. He needs to be stopped right away, and with whatever force is neccesary.

[kyoukan]

Fine I'll bite. What "internationally aired piece" are you referring to? I read the news 3 times a day and I missed that gem. Can you link me?

Where did Iraq get 400 million dollars in "aid money?" Who gives aid money to Iraq?

[Mak]

okay wise ass then why don't you tell us how much oil Iraq has sold for cash in the last decade and a half.

http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/D ... 60114.html

The oil-for-food agreement permits Iraq, which has been subjected to an oil embargo since 1990, to sell oil worth US $5.2 billion every six months to buy basic materials under the supervision of the UN.

[Fallanthas]

On Saddams personal wealth:

http://usinfo.state.gov/regional/nea/iraq/iraq99c.htm


On his diverting aid monies:

http://www.iraq.net/erica/news-e/archives/00000215.htm

Yeah, Iraq is horribly broke, and it's all because of sanctions.

[kyoukan]

the state department and a site ran by iraqi dissidents counts for an internationally aired piece now?

Also, I am well versed in the outline of the oil for food campaign. now please for you to tell me how much oil iraq has sold for cash in the last decade and a half?

[miir]

Bottom line, we in the U.S. are prospering, by and large. We have more personal freedom than any other developed country.

Actually, Canadians enjoy much greater personal freedoms and privacy.

[Kelshara]

On top of what Brotha posted, 16 of the 19 members of NATO support the war in Iraq. Belgium, France, and Germany are the only two that don't.

Not correct. A lot of the NATO countries want another UN resolution to support it. Including Denmark and Norway that I can name off the top of my head.

A huge majority of European countries have a population that is against a war without an UN resolution. Some governments do not follow their public opinion at this time, but if it drags out they will have to change their views or commit political suicide. Politicians are nothing more but the voice of the people, and they have to follow what their supporters tell them.

I'm sure you realize that my side has history, facts, and intellectual honesty going for it.

heh right.. and such intelligent overachievers as Metanis, Brotha and Midnyte. Damn I am scared.

How exactly do you have more personal freedom than canadians, germans, british, swedish, etc etc?

With the recent law changes I'd say you got way less freedom than Norwegians for sure.

You know, I can safely say after reading how you guys attacked the guy who had lost his family in war that I feel sick. You guys plain out fucking disgust me.

Go to Iraq and get your fucking head blown off defending what you think is your freedom. I'll be sure to send your family a card saying how lucky they are!

[Bwuza]

Dont you fucking get it??? THERE IS NO DAMN REASON TO ATTACK IRAK except to remove saddam.

Dont you understand that irak cant do SHIT to the usa? Even if they have missiles they dont have the range to come ANYWHERE CLOSE TO THE USA!

DO YOU FUCKING GET IT NOW???

"Why would it be absured that Sadam would try to attack usa? Because as miir said:

1. The actuall terrorist are probably already in the Usa.

2. How the fuck would you actually transport a nuclear warhead or plutonium to the Usa without any super duper huper wuper secret transport system?

3. Even if they had nuclear wep or missiles, they dont have the capabilty to send them all the way to the Usa.

4. Chemical weapons? Heh for fuck sake you could make dangerous chemical substance in you own kitchen if you knew how and what to use. "

Grrrrrr.....

[Acies]

Dont you fucking get it??? THERE IS NO DAMN REASON TO ATTACK IRAK except to remove saddam.

Dont you understand that irak cant do SHIT to the usa? Even if they have missiles they dont have the range to come ANYWHERE CLOSE TO THE USA!

DO YOU FUCKING GET IT NOW???

"Why would it be absured that Sadam would try to attack usa? Because as miir said:

1. The actuall terrorist are probably already in the Usa.

2. How the fuck would you actually transport a nuclear warhead or plutonium to the Usa without any super duper huper wuper secret transport system?

3. Even if they had nuclear wep or missiles, they dont have the capabilty to send them all the way to the Usa.

4. Chemical weapons? Heh for fuck sake you could make dangerous chemical substance in you own kitchen if you knew how and what to use. "

Grrrrrr.....

Dude, while I am sure you mean well, Iraq is spelled "Iraq", not IRAK.
I think you went over this before, and yes, Miir is accepting bj's from adoring fans last I heard, but unless you can shape up your grammer I will have to ask you to join the conservatives based on your intelligence quotant.
Thank you.

[Kelshara]

It's spelled Irak in quite a few languages.. English is probably not his primary language.

[Brotha]

I think Bwuza and Acies should put aside their differences and start a retard peace movement. The sight of thousands of retards stumbling through the DC streets with red, white, and blue helmets chanting "no die for oil!" will send an unmistakable message to President Bush and make news world wide. Not to mention if you get that many retards together at once, there's bound to be a few incidents of Darwin Award material.

[kyoukan]

I think Bwuza and Acies should put aside their differences and start a retard peace movement. The sight of thousands of retards stumbling through the DC streets with red, white, and blue helmets chanting "no die for oil!" will send an unmistakable message to President Bush and make news world wide. Not to mention if you get that many retards together at once, there's bound to be a few incidents of Darwin Award material.

yeah like you can talk.

[Hammerstalker PE]

Wow Bwuza great post! The general idea of it being they can't actually fire a Nuke and hit the USA so leave them alone. They can't get their Chemical and Biological weapons to the USA so leave em alone.

Shit, son that makes a ton of sense. I especially loved the logic behind this gem

Chemical weapons? Heh for fuck sake you could make dangerous chemical substance in you own kitchen if you knew how and what to use. "

At least Kyoukan tries to baffle folks with plausable bullshit.

[Fallanthas]

AND THE USA IS TEH ONLY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD WORTH LOSING SLEEP OVER!!


FUCK ME, I GET IT NOW!!


Go crawl back in your hole, dumbfuck.

[Zeilya]

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/oi ... hreats.htm

[kyoukan]

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/oi ... hreats.htm

http://www.observer.co.uk/iraq/story/0, ... 05,00.html

[Zeilya]

[/b]

[Acies]

It's spelled Irak in quite a few languages.. English is probably not his primary language.

Hmm, I did not know this. Bwuza, I owe you an appoligy bro.

I think Bwuza and Acies should put aside their differences and start a retard peace movement. The sight of thousands of retards stumbling through the DC streets with red, white, and blue helmets chanting "no die for oil!" will send an unmistakable message to President Bush and make news world wide. Not to mention if you get that many retards together at once, there's bound to be a few incidents of Darwin Award material.

... A retard peace movement?
Cute, so you would prefer I form a coalition that can counter your "Kill the towel-heads club" by way of equal tardness?
Nono, I do not think I will do this. I think I have made my stance on the moral problems with this potential war. I understand that securing oil is an important step for America, but would not be if our companies did not buy out innovators design ideas on alternative energies.
True, it would have shaken our economy to the core, but change is required for growth.
I have my reasons for not trusting Bush. Try this site:

http://www.americanfreedomnews.com/afn_ ... ecrets.htm

True, a bit gaudy, but can be verifed here:

http://www.citypaper.net/articles/011801/sl.slant.shtml

At the bottom of this site is an email address. Mail it if you want and ask for proof of this, I am sure that altman@citypaper.net can address any inquires with legit factual information.

I do not trust Bush's family, I do not trust him. If I wanted a buisnessman in office, I would have voted yes on Ross Perot.
Frankly, I would be more impressed if Bush just came out and declared what this is for, why we feel the need to ruin what was after Desert Storm a working aggreement? It is stupid, like you are Brotha, to believe that Iraq could pose even a miniscule threat to the U.S. in any arena aside from our oil needs, and that is only fucked now because of President Shrub's poor choices.

That is how I feel on this issue.

[Xyun]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2765215.stm

Saw on the news that Rome had the biggest turnout, over a million people.

One of my best friends got called to active duty for the 2nd time in a year on friday. He leaves wednesday and doesn't know where he's going.

He joked that he would bring back some oil for everyone.

He also told us that military personnel get briefed on what they are allowed to say on camera. He is not allowed to say "I am miserable here, I hate it, I don't believe in this cause, and I want to go home." If he did, he would face 10-20 years in prison, and no one would see that news clip anyway.

Ironic how a man who dedicates his life to protecting the ideals of America, one of those being the freedom of speech, is not afforded this freedom.

Ironic that while America promotes democracy throughout the world, ignores the voice of the majority.

[Xyun]

Oh wait, it's not irony...


it's


H Y P O C R A C Y

[Krimson Klaw]

It's not. That's what makes Democracy so great, the world can say what they want, and we won't attack them for it....

I was in the military, and I do remember not being able to say what I wanted on camera. Well, they said I could, but if it was not in line with what was up and up, I would pay for it much like you mentioned above. I kinda figure it's like this...you work for Microsoft, you don't get on camera and say you hate your job, it sucks, and you wish Bill Gates would get voted off the board of trustees for the company. if you did, safe to say you would be gone too.

They restrict negatve speach within the military for morale purposes. The people beside you are the ones you trust your life to in combat, so it makes sense you would not want a group of marines on the evening news shouting about how they are all gonna die if they go on XXXX mission. Depending on your viewpoint, this may be totally right or totally wrong, but it's how our country runs the number one military on the planet.

And btw, this is not just a Republican deal, I was in the military under Clinton, and it was the same then.