The Powell and Bush comedy show

[Kelshara]

I worry that he will sell nuclear devices or biological devices to terrorist groups who will then use them in the U.S. Same problem exists with North Korea.

If terrorists are to get these items it will not be from Iraq or North Korea. It will more than likely be from former Soviet Union, where things aren't exactly secured tightly or everything accounted for..

Also, about North Korea: It is sablerattling only imho. He sees a chance to try to get more money, and that's it.

Saddam is the same person he was 12 years ago.

So if you steal something, serve the time and get released you can be arrested again 10 years later since you are still the same person? Sorry don't buy your logic.

You know, Iraq isn't the only country in the world that could clean up some of their crap. What about the issues of prisoners being tortured to confess and end up on death row in USA? What city was that again? I forgot, sorry. Or the San Quentin prison which was meant for 68 prisoners and holds 600+? Even the prison guards have claimed for years that it is ridiculously overpopulated. Or for that matter, the documented issues with court cases for prisoners ending in death penalty where the overworked public defenders have fallen asleep during the case etc. Fair trial my ass!

2) In round numbers? All of them.
3) In round numbers? Every barrel.

Let me make myself perfectly clear. Patriotism is not a game. It is very much "us vs. them" and they have set the stakes at mass murder. I don't believe my country or my president are always right... however I will always give them the benefit of the doubt.

And this is a prime example of why Europeans have the general attitude towards Americans atm that they do. Thanks for proving the point and remove any doubt that might have lingered still!

And of course Midnyte jumped in.. surprise surprise.

It's going to take as many as it takes.

However if 5 Americans die you are frothing at the mouth...

Thank you Kooky, from you I will take that as a great compliment.

Only you could take being called an idiot a compliment. Guess you truly proved the point again.

Without a doubt it was the most brutal nation in the middle east, but guess how that was changed?

If you believe Afghanistan is over and done with you need to read some of it's history. It is a good and interesting read.

Human rights abuses continue within Iraq. People continue to be arrested and detained on suspicion of political or religious activities, or often because they are related to members of the opposition.

Hum.. prisoners.. Cuba...

[Brotha]

So if you steal something, serve the time and get released you can be arrested again 10 years later since you are still the same person? Sorry don't buy your logic.

Not a good analogy. A better one is, you shoot someone w/ a gun, then you go to prison. You get out and you're told to give up all your guns. But you're still obsessed with keeping your guns and aquiring newer, bigger ones. The person hasn't shot someone again, but he obviously hasn't changed.

Or the San Quentin prison which was meant for 68 prisoners and holds 600+? Even the prison guards have claimed for years that it is ridiculously overpopulated. Or for that matter, the documented issues with court cases for prisoners ending in death penalty where the overworked public defenders have fallen asleep during the case etc. Fair trial my ass!

Yeah, lets compare an overpopulated prison and some juries fucking up with the wholesale slaughter, rape, and disfigurement of thousands of prisoners. Are you being serious?

If you believe Afghanistan is over and done with you need to read some of it's history. It is a good and interesting read.

The average life of an Afghani is better off now than it was a few years ago under the Taliban. We'll see what happens years from now.

edit: clarified something

[Forthe]

The average life of an Afghani is better off now than it was a few years ago under the Taliban. We'll see what happens years from now.

You need to research subjects before making claims such as this. I believe we are keeping 1 city secure, the rest of the country is in mahem.

Afghanistan is not a simple case of establishing a government, ask the Russians. The USSR held on for 10 years (the USSR had experience in occupying foreign countries), I highly doubt the US will last nearly as long.

http://www.iht.com/articles/86531.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2751685.stm

[vn_Tanc]

If this was a 'just war' there would be considerably less opposition to it.
If this was a 'just war' our governments would not be working so hard to convince us. Almost nobody blinked when it was Afghanistan for example.

The sheer amount of persuasion going on, while troops and materiel are all ready being moved into place, should tell you "hawks" something.

There isn't one big, genuine reason for this war. There are a lot of small half-reasons. Most of those half-reasons can be (and have been) overlooked if it suits the purposes of those in power. The rest of those half-reasons could be dealt with via other means.
Either way it stacks up as a war without enough justification. And I will oppose un-just and un-justifiable war every time simply because our servicemen and any innocents caught in the crossfire deserve better then to be put through hell just because a rich fnord somewhere has a hard-on for a fight.
It's got nothing to do with supporting Hussein. No sane person can.
It's got nothing to do with anti-American sentiment other than that which has been brought down by the current administration with it's half-truths, propoganda and aggression.

[Krewlade]

Saddam will disarm 1 way or another whether he chooses to or we choose to for him.

You do not let power hungry fanatics have weapons that COULD be a threat.



Sometimes we have to do things we do not want to do or others disagree with because it is important to ours or others future safety.

Do you honestly believe Saddam has no ties to terrorism or bin laden you honestly believe he isnt hiding anything?

Everyone says its about oil and we wouldnt care if there was no oil there. I dont think we would care as much if he didnt have ties with terrorism and wanted to build weapons of mass killing.
On top of that he is a ruthless power hungry fanatic. Something has to be done and negotiation isnt working.

NK doesnt have lots of oil we want and we dont want them to have those kind of weapons either. They are not allowed to have them period, those rules were not made by the US alone, but it seems like it always comes down to the US to enforce those rules. When we do enforce them we are always questioned and fingered as being greedy.


I'm done.

[Kelshara]

Everyone says its about oil and we wouldnt care if there was no oil there. I dont think we would care as much if he didnt have ties with terrorism and wanted to build weapons of mass killing.

Nice sidestepping of the point about oil. Other countries have way stronger ties to terrorists than Iraq, including American allies. Not to mention some of these "WMDs" that Iraq supposedly has were given to them by USA. As was Israel's.

You do not let power hungry fanatics have weapons that COULD be a threat.

Time to go into Russia then? And Israel? And North Korea? Pakistan? India?

You are aware that some gases etc can be made by a 14 year old with a receipe found on the net right? And they are quite deadly.

Yeah, lets compare an overpopulated prison and some juries fucking up with the wholesale slaughter, rape, and disfigurement of thousands of prisoners. Are you being serious?

Not comparing, using an example to show that USA is hardly as squeeky clean as you claim it is.

[miir]

You do not let power hungry fanatics have weapons that COULD be a threat

I bet a lot of Muslims view Geroge W Bush as a power hungry fanatic.



Everyone says its about oil and we wouldnt care if there was no oil there.

Perhaps you, personally, don't care about the oil.... but let's be realistic here....
The USA is the largest consumer of crude oil in the world.
Iraq has the second largest reserves of crude oil in the world.



NK doesnt have lots of oil we want and we dont want them to have those kind of weapons either. They are not allowed to have them period, those rules were not made by the US alone, but it seems like it always comes down to the US to enforce those rules.

North Korea has no oil reserves whatsoever.

In 1994 North Korea voluntarily signed the Nuclear Non Proliferation treaty... well not exactly.. but they agreed to a framework that would bring them into compliance. There are several key points in the framework where the USA has not delivered the promised support.

North Korea has the freedom to ignore the treaty but the consequence is extreme scrutiny of their nuclear programs. There is no treaty stating that North Korea is not 'allowed' to have nuclear programs.

It may interest you to know that Isreal, India and Pakistan have not signed the Nuclear Non Proliferation treaty and all 3 contries are known to posess nuclear weapons.




Krewlade, I won't go so far as to call you stupid, but you are incredibly ignorant of the facts surrounding this situation.


I'm done.

You misspelled 'dumb'

[Fallanthas]

There are several key points in the framework where the USA has not delivered the promised support.

Very slick job of glossing over the fact that NK has never met the terms of the agreement in the first place.

[miir]

Very slick job of glossing over the fact that NK has never met the terms of the agreement in the first place.

Both countries were guilty of renegging on terms on the agreed framework set down to bring North Korea into NPT compliance.



I don't really care to get into an in depth discussion about it, I was simply responding to Krewlade who seemed to think that North Korea is 'not allowed by the USA' to have nuclear programs.



Personally, I think the situation in North Korea is far more urgent than Iraq.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

There are several key points in the framework where the USA has not delivered the promised support.

Very slick job of glossing over the fact that NK has never met the terms of the agreement in the first place.

It's typical of today's vision Fallanthas. People forget so easy. It's the same thing as the Saddam situation. They both fell back on their end of the bargain.

[Voronwë]

it was a bad agreement in the first place, from what i've heard.

it was not written with favorable terms to NK, but they agreed in principle nonetheless. At negotiations at this level, you need to come to the table with the big boy pants on (thx seeber for expression), and you can't expect the other party to act in your best interest. otherwise there would be no need for negotiations in the first place.

so in summary, NK is not a sophisticated country, and it shows in just about every aspect of this entire affair. the CIA's acknowledgement yesterday that they have a weapon that can hit the US is pretty sobering though.

I'm not sure Saddam Hussein is crazy. He may be a very bad person, but that doesnt make him crazy.

Kim Jung Il is crazy though. By the way, he has kept his dead father officially president of the country ever since he died. he collects disney movies. the only normal things he does are boozing and womanizing.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Jesus, that's frightening Vor. I hope we never see the day a nuke hits our country, but everyday I grow more and more confident it will happen

[Draaxx]

We had a discussion about all this crap in my world history class and my teacher brought up something that makes you think. Sure the US messes with other nations too much but what would the world be like without the US? Its funny seeing the canadians saying that the US should just leave people alone and all. If we did that I can almost garauntee you that some terrorist/pissed off militant nation would rule the world or until another nation gets in a war with them. I doubt the world would be a better place without US like some say.


P.S. i wrote this after sleeping for an hour in my telecommunications class so dont freak out if i misspelled shit cause hey, i dont care.

[Fallanthas]

Agreed Vor, it was a stupidass agreement from day one.


How any politician in the States could think they could ram through an appropriation to build a nuclear reactor, much less as part of a foreign aid package, is absolutely beyond me.

[Crav]

You know with everyone concentrating on whether or not to go to war, not many people have talked about what will happen once the war is over. I'm saying this because I doubt anyone will be able to stop the war from happening. If the best possible scenario occurs there will be a democratically elected government after the war. However, that's assuming that all the different regions and interests in Iraq can put aside all their differences and work together to form a new nation. Say what you will about Hussein, one of the reasons we backed him in the 80s was because through violence and force he kept all the different parts of Iraq together and "stable". Now that the democratic government of Iraq is set up there will probably need to be peace keeping force there. So now we have a U.S. backed democracy in an area that has already shown hostility towards Israel and traditionally been dominated by monarchies. I'm getting the feeling that one of two things is going to happen, either we are going to see constant attacks on the government that is set up or the region is going to split along the ethnic/religious lines that currently exists. Either way we are going to pay a lot for this little Bush endeavor. I really hope people will be rewarded with lower gas prices, but I some how doubt it with the way corporate minds think.

[Metanis]

Perhaps you, personally, don't care about the oil.... but let's be realistic here....
The USA is the largest consumer of crude oil in the world.
Iraq has the second largest reserves of crude oil in the world.

Miir, do you consider the Washington Post a right-wing newspaper?

Check out this link on whether this is a war for oil.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... Jan23.html

I know it's a bitch when your favorite illusions are broken... sorry for that.

For those that want the short version, this column in the Washington Post states,

Even a perfunctory acquaintance with the realities of the global oil market would indicate that the "oil war" theory does not stand up to analysis.

[miir]

Nobody is saying that it's all about oil.

To deny that the mass reserves of crude oil in Iraq has no influence on American actions is ignorant.

Let me repeat that...

Nobody is saying this is all about oil.



If I were so inclined, I could find plenty of editorials explaining the influence of oil in this conflict.... but what's the point.

[Metanis]

Nobody is saying that it's all about oil.

Quite an achievement. Next thing you know one of us will have you admitting that Saddam is partially to blame here...

[miir]

Quite an achievement. Next thing you know one of us will have you admitting that Saddam is partially to blame here...

That makes no sense.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

Nobody is saying that it's all about oil.

Quite an achievement. Next thing you know one of us will have you admitting that Saddam is partially to blame here...

rofl...Isn't little Billy is growing up so fast?

[Metanis]

Nobody is saying that it's all about oil.

Quite an achievement. Next thing you know one of us will have you admitting that Saddam is partially to blame here...

rofl...Isn't little Billy is growing up so fast?

I can't wait for potty training...



j/k Miir, but I was reminded of yesterday's Dave Berry column which was all about potty training his daughter. Dave Berry's stuff is always funny as hell.

[kyoukan]

Agreed Vor, it was a stupidass agreement from day one.


How any politician in the States could think they could ram through an appropriation to build a nuclear reactor, much less as part of a foreign aid package, is absolutely beyond me.

Oh I get, so it's okay for the US to back out of it because it was a "stupid deal" but when DPRK doesn't comply to it, it is because they are evil.

The part that makes me really sad is that you really think this.

[Brotha]

Personally, I think the situation in North Korea is far more urgent than Iraq.

So what else do you want us to do besides what we're doing right now? Send more troops over and provoke Kim Jong Il? Waiting.

North Korea has no oil reserves whatsoever.

Yeah, lucky for them, otherwise we'd be over there trying to invade them right now. Right?

Nobody is saying that it's all about oil.

Yeah, it's also about Bush's personal vendetta. How could we forget about that?

Oh I get, so it's okay for the US to back out of it because it was a "stupid deal" but when DPRK doesn't comply to it, it is because they are evil.

We didn't just back out because it was a stupid deal. We backed out because for years North Korea had been violating it. Until we found this out we had been following it.

That deal provided for Japan and South Korea to build two light-water nuclear power plants for the North, while the U.S. would supply half a million tons of free oil every year for 10 years. By 2000, the United States was shipping oil worth $270 million a year, making the Stalinist regime the largest recipient of U.S. aid in East Asia. To receive this largesse, all the North had to do was suspend its nuclear program.

This is what happened when we just wanted to make sure they were keeping their end of the deal:

The government then moved its nuclear weapons program to Kumchang-ni, some 35 miles north, to avoid international inspectors. By 1998, the United States had learned of Kumchang-ni and demanded to inspect it. North Korea agreed to admit inspectors in exchange for 600,000 tons of food. But by the time the inspectors arrived, Mr. Aoyami says, another move had been completed and the United States paid a high price to look at empty tunnels. The North has become a master of bait and switch.

[Fallanthas]

We backed out because the DPRK weren't keeping their promises, Kyo.

Hell, we still didn't back out. They STILL recieve a huge chunk of change from the evil U.S. every year.


It was still a stupid damn thing to sign.

[kyoukan]

We backed out because the DPRK weren't keeping their promises, Kyo.

what

where are their two light water reactors that were supposed to be built by now? were they somehow going to be started and finished building sometime between december and february?

how does this logic continually escape you?

PACIFIC RIM: Hey North Korea; stop using those reactors that are capable of refining uranium into weapons grade material and we will build you two better reactors that can't.

KOREA: ok

PACIFIC RIM: Well we aren't really going to build you reactors.

KOREA: ok well then we aren't going to comply either.

USA: NORTH KOREA IS EVIL AND THEY MUST BE STOPPED FOR REFUSING TO COMPLY WITH THE DEAL THEY SIGNED. LIBERTY MUST BE PROTECTED AT ALL COSTS.

[masteen]

PACIFIC RIM

In college I dated this Vietnamese girl who used to shout that out whenever I licked her ass.

[Fallanthas]

You dumbfuck.


Read the article, they never, ever, not for five minutes stopped teh research they were supposed to give up in order to get the goddamn reactors.


As in, they have been in breach of the agreement for years.

[Metanis]

...USA: NORTH KOREA IS EVIL AND THEY MUST BE STOPPED FOR REFUSING TO COMPLY WITH THE DEAL THEY SIGNED. LIBERTY MUST BE PROTECTED AT ALL COSTS.

Wow! Kooky is spooky! She hit the nail on the head without someone to lead her.

In the Special Olympics she'd get a medal.

[kyoukan]

I thought she was shouting "I'll do anything to end the pain that is my existence"

I can see how you could get the two confused tho.

[kyoukan]

You dumbfuck.

Read the article, they never, ever, not for five minutes stopped teh research they were supposed to give up in order to get the goddamn reactors.

As in, they have been in breach of the agreement for years.

aaaaaand they never got their reactors for one minute.

say I make a deal with you.

I say, "Fallanthas, stop acting like a stupid fucking moron and I will give you a million dollars."

You agree, and I don't give you any money, do you stop acting like a stupid fucking moron?

Bearing in mind the situation is hypothetical seeing as how I don't think you are capable of not acting like a stupid fucking moron.

[Swiiter]

Taken from The Onion

Saddam Enrages Bush With Full Compliance
WASHINGTON, DC—President Bush expressed frustration and anger Monday over a U.N. report stating that Iraqi president Saddam Hussein is now fully complying with weapons inspections. "Enough is enough," a determined Bush told reporters. "We are not fooled by Saddam's devious attempts to sway world opinion by doing everything the U.N. asked him to do. We will not be intimidated into backing down and, if we have any say in the matter, neither will Saddam." Bush added that any further Iraqi attempt to meet the demands of the U.N. or U.S. will be regarded as "an act of war."

[Vetiria]

PACIFIC RIM

In college I dated this Vietnamese girl who used to shout that out whenever I licked her ass.

hahahahahahahahahaha

[masteen]

I thought she was shouting "I'll do anything to end the pain that is my existence"

Nah, she spoke perfect English, so no confusion. She did sometimes cry out stuff in both French and Vietnamese that I didn't understand. Thx for clearing that up!

[Fallanthas]

Ok, follow the booouncing ball, sicne you can't follow a line of reasoning worth a damn.

The deal was cut in 1996? Think that's right

By 1998 we had clear evidence that they were fucking around.


Why in hell would we build them reactors in 200-2003?

[kyoukan]

who is we? what happened in 1998? what did we learn that we didn't already know? why do you keep pulling this shit out of your ass and expect us to be as stupid as you are and buy it?

[Metanis]

Ok, follow the booouncing ball, sicne you can't follow a line of reasoning worth a damn.

The deal was cut in 1996? Think that's right

By 1998 we had clear evidence that they were fucking around.


Why in hell would we build them reactors in 200-2003?

Your time lines are reasonably accurate. Kooky and her kind don't care about facts. So it won't matter in the least.

Clinton let the issue slide, Bush has to deal with it, the Left get's their panties in a wad. It's like a familiar song on the radio.

[kyoukan]

Oooh, it's all Clinton's fault! GEE WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST SAY THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE?!

megadittoes rush.

[Fallanthas]

Read the thread and you might save yoruself from looking like a retard, Kyou.

I doubt it, but at this point I would say anything is worth a shot.

[Forthe]

I don't see how you can ignore NK's side of this. They are starving for energy. People are freezing to death over there. If they had not agreed to this deal they would have 2 power plants running right now

So we had bribed them not to build their own reactors and promise to build them safer reactors that will meet their needs. Would it be responsible for the government not to prepare for the possibility that the agreement would not be met, to put the energy needs of the country totally in the hands of others, before any progress had been seen to meet the agreement?

If there had been any progress *at all* to build the reactors they need and they were still maintaining their nuclear program I'd agree with the US. As it is the agreement has fucked NK up the ass.

[Metanis]

I don't see how you can ignore NK's side of this. They are starving for energy. People are freezing to death over there.

This is just so delicious!

You ever think even ONCE that maybe the government of NK is responsible for fucking up?

Man, if you can't feed your own people, what are you doing dicking around with nuclear technology? Well, it makes sense if you are going to use it for extortion!

They tried it, they failed, they lose. Put another quarter in...

Forthe, I haven't figured you out... do you really believe the crap you spew? You seem to come across all reasonable and stuff but it's like you're under medication?

[Brotha]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-p ... 572525.stm

But John Large stressed the Yongbyon reactor was "tiny" at 5 MWt, compared to a commercial reactor which can generate 3,000 MWt.

Yongbyon was therefore not capable of significant electrical power generation, he said.

Then IAEA spokesman Mark Gwozdecky:

"The reprocessing plant could have absolutely no civilian use for North Korea."

These aren't being used for electricity. This is to try to get more concessions out the of United States and to further their own agenda.

/agree Metanis. The conditions in North Korea are Kim Jon Il's fault, not the United States. Do you all realize how much money North Korea puts into its military, while ignoring their economy and starving people? Or that 2 million people out of a 22 million population have starved to death? Read up on personal accounts from people who have escaped North Korea. It's sick.

[Forthe]

I don't see how you can ignore NK's side of this. They are starving for energy. People are freezing to death over there.

This is just so delicious!

You ever think even ONCE that maybe the government of NK is responsible for fucking up?

Yes they fucked up by signing the agreement with no guarantees and letting their own national security rest solely in the hands of others.

They should have just built their own like they were doing and they wouldn't be in the shit can like they are now.

Man, if you can't feed your own people, what are you doing dicking around with nuclear technology?

For power so people don't freeze to death. Or even to power elevators so people living in high rises (a large percentage of the population) don't have to walk the stairs or power for water pumps so those same people have running water. It really isn't a complicated scenario.

But I guess they could just do nothing and let the population endure these conditions. It should help with the food shortages eventually.

The US government spends 300 billion on their military while people starve to death, live in poverty, die for lack of medical insurance, deal with crazy crime rates, have illiterate high school grads. And I don't give a fuck. It's your country, run it how you see fit. I find it funny tho when I see americans judge NK for their military budget.

They tried it, they failed, they lose. Put another quarter in...

I read that NK still has a mutual defense treaty with China btw. They can do whatever the fuck they want. The US has no military option for NK.

[Brotha]

But I guess they could just do nothing and let the population endure these conditions. It should help with the food shortages eventually.

Forthe, these aren't being used for electricity. There's no questioning that. If N Korea was really concerned about electricity, there are other ways to go about it. I'll say it one more time: These are not being used for electricity.

The US government spends 300 billion on their military while people starve to death, live in poverty, die for lack of medical insurance, deal with crazy crime rates, have illiterate high school grads. And I don't give a fuck. It's your country, run it how you see fit. I find it funny tho when I see americans judge NK for their military budget.

Come on man, you can't possibly compare the two.

[Fallanthas]

Ok, make up your damn mind here.


You either want us to stay the hell out of other countries buisness, or you want us to feed the world.


People are starving to death in NK because their fucked-up government has spent every nickel, every drop of oil over the last decade increasing their millitary.


So choose and let's have an end to this nonsense.

[Bwuza]

Ok after reading the first page i just had to post so i skipped the last 3 pages. So sorry for maybe taking up stuff that has already been written.

1. I totally agree with you miir.

2. Its funny how must of you give ur thoughts on this without even knowing the true story behind this.

3. I totally agree that Sadam should be removed from his position but not by droping 2348723847 tons of bombs on a already poor country.

4. Whoever thinks that this war is to kill and capture the terrorist, the nukes or chemical wep (sorry to say this) has been mislead by the actuall plan of the bush administration.

Mostly of you dont even know how this started or why it started. You can free call me a jackass or retard or ignorant or whatever that will calm ur anger down.

Sadam has been terrorising his own people and other tribes bouth in Iraq and outside but this is not the reason why Usa came to kuwaits help. We all know that Kuwait and Iraq have huge amount of oil and the actuall fuss started when acordingly Kuwait started to pump oil from Iraqs oil fields, (also that Sadam said that Kuwait actually belongs to the Iraq and several others things). Of course OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of people in Iraq got pissed of and said we are going to take this to another scale if you dont stop pumping our oil. Kuwait didnt stop and there you have ur reason why Iraq attacked Kuwait(Plus the other things like Sadam wanting Kuwait in his arms). But of course Usa didnt care when Sadam was killing all the people before this incident. Why? Kuwait=Oil --------> Usa -----> Usa=oil=happy=bling bling.
And this didnt just effect Usa but all others countries that were big consumers of oil. The best solution to this? Free Kuwait and get the damn oil flow back. War came, war finnished, Iraq lost. Most of you think it was here it all ended? Nopp you are wrong.

As Acies stated " have a suggestion. Have the UN put a complete embargo on all Iraq products for 5 years, including (especially) oil." That was done EXCEPT on the oil part. What do you think the consequence of this was? Yes you are right, Iraq got POOR! not only did they get poor but they lacked medicin, food and all other stuff they couldnt import/sell.
Did you know that there are houndreds even thousands of children dying as i write this message in Iraq? And do you know why? Because they are starving and lacking medicin!!!!!! Do you know what the Usa did? To show their great greatness they started to actually trade medicin and other stuff in refund of HUGE quantities of oil. From a scale from 1-10, the worth of the medicin and other supplies was like 1 but the oil sent to the usa (and other countries) was probably closer to an 85 busting the damn scale pretty much.

Do you know what happend next? Iraq got fed up with supplying usa with oil in return of almost nothing and they probably said fuck this deal you are getting 10 more times out of this. Guess what happens? Those in the actuall command in the Usa got of course pissed of ass hell. Best solution to this problem? Secure some strategic spots in Iraq (translated) go deeper into Iraq and start to draining them on their own oil. Best solution to manage to secure this position? Start some fucking noncense that Iraq is going to bomb and make terrosist attacks on the Usa, of course this worked in the begining but after lacking proof (dooOOOh) OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS of people actually started to think.

Why would it be absured that Sadam would try to attack usa? Because as miir said:

1. The actuall terrorist are probably already in the Usa.

2. How the fuck would you actually transport a nuclear warhead or plutonium to the Usa without any super duper huper wuper secret transport system?

3. Even if they had nuclear wep or missiles, they dont have the capabilty to send them all the way to the Usa.

4. Chemical weapons? Heh for fuck sake you could make dangerous chemical substance in you own kitchen if you knew how and what to use.

Ok for those that are steaming with anger now fuck this what i have wrote and actually think for urselfe for a moment:

Is it worth and right to bomb and kill several of thousands of people, waisting a huge quantiti of money, shaking the whole worlds economy to maybe, i said MAYBE get the chanse to kill Sadam Hussein and his closest 10 men? If you think yes then i have a nice quote for you "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity."

Also you can think that this is all bs and that this oil stories are bs also but actually if you ever get the chanse to get an honest responce from someone that has or had some kind of more important position in the government or whatever, you will see. Mark my words.

Thank you.

[Forthe]

Ok, make up your damn mind here.

You either want us to stay the hell out of other countries buisness, or you want us to feed the world.

People are starving to death in NK because their fucked-up government has spent every nickel, every drop of oil over the last decade increasing their millitary.

So choose and let's have an end to this nonsense.

I believe we all should "stay the hell out of other countries buisness" unless intervention\aid is requested and then it is up to that nation to choose to intervene or not. There may be moral issues with choosing to intervene or not but I respect every countries right to make this choice (ie. Gulf war - morally good; US remaining neutral when France was invaded by Germany - morally bad).

[Brotha]

"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity."

Yes if nothing else, that post taught me this lesson. You're so clueless it's disgusting. As usual an anti-war/anti-bush/whatever you want to call it person tries to come off as knowing the "real facts" and being "enlightened," then ends up looking more stupid and misguised than a KKK redneck inbred in Arkansas who wants to bomb those sand niggers over in Iraq!

[Bwuza]

um anti-war ,

If you are not againt the war or any kind of war in that matter then something is wrong with you.

Anti-bush? Hmmm jupp im probably one of the majority of the poeple on this planet that feels the same thing.

And this is not some kind of enlightment or "real facts" this are the real facts, how could i know this? Because i have been there and seen it with my own eyes.

[Kelshara]

then ends up looking more stupid and misguised than a KKK redneck inbred in Arkansas who wants to bomb those sand niggers over in Iraq!

heh didn't know a person could get more stupid than you but oh well.. live and learn!

[Forthe]

"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity."

Yes if nothing else, that post taught me this lesson. You're so clueless it's disgusting. As usual an anti-war/anti-bush/whatever you want to call it person tries to come off as knowing the "real facts" and being "enlightened," then ends up looking more stupid and misguised than a KKK redneck inbred in Arkansas who wants to bomb those sand niggers over in Iraq!

Poorly written and extreme bias but at least he didn't use terms like "these are facts" or "nobody could argue" for points that are easily contested like you do.