Perspective

Fash · Post by **Fash** » January 31, 2003, 4:57 pm

http://www.seds.org/billa/psc/pbd.html

It's a photo from taken by the Voyager 1 from outside the solar system.. and commentary by Carl Sagan.

I've tried to explain this very same thing to a bunch of people.. and I think global realization of this is the only time we can have global peace, united in expansion, passionate in development and research of technology.

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'1 planet of 9' in '1 star system of 200 billion' in '1 galaxy of 200 billion'

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » January 31, 2003, 6:51 pm

A very humbling fact.

Acies · Post by **Acies** » January 31, 2003, 6:59 pm

Makes me realize just how insignificant everything we do is...
I hate that pic, it is depressing.
Think: No matter what you do, in the grand scheme, you are a piss ant and so is your life achievments...

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » January 31, 2003, 7:03 pm

what you do isnt insignificant to those who know you.

but yes you shouldnt ascribe undue significance to your life's works either.

personally, i'd rather subscribe to a world-view that is based on fact than one that functions to placate fantasy.

cool picture, and interesting to think about.

Midnyte_Ragebringer · January 31, 2003, 10:46 pm

/shrug

I don't see the fan faire about the picture personally. Until we "know" of other exsistences, then we are it. What we do, "does", matter. It affects the lives of the people around you and the ones who love/care about you.

Our lives aren't small and meaningless to us, so we shouldn't treat them that way.

Adex_Xeda · Post by **Adex_Xeda** » January 31, 2003, 11:03 pm

Carl Sagan was a man who passionately attempted to grasp the universe with empiricism alone.

Sadly, grasping the universe empirically is as futile as measuring water with a ruler. It was the wrong tool for the job.

I hope that no one, will be so locked and self limited as he was.

Augie · Post by **Augie** » January 31, 2003, 11:04 pm

perspective... one gene compared to our body may be as relatively minute...but...think what havok is caused when that one tiny speck goes wrong

see...Size doesnt matter

Voronwë · Post by **Voronwë** » February 1, 2003, 2:59 am

adex i understand your analogy.

but water can be measured with a ruler.

just do it 3 times.

and you can even tell how much mass it occupies without even having to use a scale.

empiricism works. that is what differentiates it from all other approaches

Fash · Post by **Fash** » February 1, 2003, 3:58 am

You don't need to take his words as a gloom and doom message.

We know from the games we've played we explore everything, we try and do everything, and the really HARD things to do, we always come together and get things done...

Instead of gloom and doom, you can be inspired that something as insignificant and originally barbaric as human beings have built an amazing civilization.... even though currently it teeters on a very perilous edge, I am always optimistic that our lives will continually get better.

We can begin to establish a presence on other planets... Just getting to 3 or 4 planets would likely increase our periodic table of elements two-fold.... The scientific possibilities are endless if only we go look.

Fash

Braxter · Post by **Braxter** » February 1, 2003, 7:11 pm

Fash wrote:Just getting to 3 or 4 planets would likely increase our periodic table of elements two-fold.... The scientific possibilities are endless if only we go look.

Fash, while I understand the sentiment you were trying to convey with this example, I gotta point out that it isn't even remotely plausible. The periodic table is set up to count protons (1 = hydrogen; 2 = helium; etc). To date, we have either discovered or created every atom with up to 118 (most recent count that I'm aware of) protons in the nucleus. Those atoms towards the top range are so unstable that they only last for fractions of a second after we create them. To say that the periodic table will expand two-fold implies that it is physically possible to pile over 200 protons on top of eachother in a nucleus, which it isn't. It's kind of like saying that by going to other planets, there will be more colors.

Now, if you start including different isotopes (different nos. of neutrons) then, yeah, it would increase tenfold or more, but then it wouldn't be the periodic table anymore ;p.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » February 1, 2003, 7:19 pm

To say that the periodic table will expand two-fold implies that it is physically possible to pile over 200 protons on top of eachother in a nucleus, which it isn't.

Just because we can't or haven't done it yet doesn't mean it isn't possible.

In an almost infinite universe, do you really believe ANYTHING has a limit so low as 118?

Braxter · Post by **Braxter** » February 1, 2003, 11:50 pm

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » February 2, 2003, 12:59 am

Fash wrote:Just because we can't or haven't done it yet doesn't mean it isn't possible.

In an almost infinite universe, do you really believe ANYTHING has a limit so low as 118?

you can't change the laws of physics.

Zamtuk · Post by **Zamtuk** » February 2, 2003, 1:03 am

Even if there is such a thing as elements with 119+ protons out there, none of us will be alive to see it. So who fucking cares?

Fash · Post by **Fash** » February 2, 2003, 1:51 am

kyoukan type-R wrote: you can't change the laws of physics.

We're smart but there are many laws that have yet to elude us.

We observe patterns and derive theorums, discover formulas, prove them, and develop a law that covers all known things.

Considering that we occupy about
0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%
of the universe, I assure you things exist that will test and break nearly every law of man.

Oh, I might be missing a few hundred zeros.