Occupy Wall Street Protests

Avestan · Post by **Avestan** » October 5, 2011, 1:16 pm

I think these protests are going to have serious legs and am excited that they are happening. . .albeit likely for different reasons than most of you.

I believe that the finance superindustry has become a cesspool of crony capitalism over the last few decades and has gotten so far away from its free market roots that is needs to be shaken to its core.

It will be interesting to see if these protests snowball (I think they might). They are well organized and are doing really interesting things like teaching economic principals on sidewalks (rise of the derivatives market, impact of financial bailouts, etc).

Hell - if I was in NYC, I could see myself joining. Good times.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 5, 2011, 1:19 pm

It's all fun and games until riots break out...which will happen. 2012 commeth!

Things are going to get very ugly over the next few years.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » October 5, 2011, 1:43 pm

The occupation of Freedom Plaza begins tomorrow.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » October 5, 2011, 2:23 pm

While I think it has definite traction, the problem is that the message is vague.
Awareness is fine but goading the overworked and underpaid NYPD isn't exactly a smart thing to do for true support.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » October 5, 2011, 2:27 pm

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » October 5, 2011, 2:35 pm

riiigghhttt

Spang · Post by **Spang** » October 5, 2011, 2:37 pm

Chidoro wrote:riiigghhttt

Correct.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » October 5, 2011, 2:51 pm

Spang wrote:
Chidoro wrote:riiigghhttt
Correct.

Incorrect

Spang · Post by **Spang** » October 5, 2011, 3:04 pm

Chidoro wrote:
Spang wrote:
Chidoro wrote:riiigghhttt
Correct.
Incorrect

Police brutality is on display at #OccupyWallStreet. Posting links to the definition of words does not change that fact.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » October 5, 2011, 3:19 pm

Spang wrote:
Chidoro wrote:
Spang wrote:
Chidoro wrote:riiigghhttt
Correct.
Incorrect
Police brutality is on display at #OccupyWallStreet. Posting links to the definition of words does not change that fact.

Police brutality is incorrect. You are incorrect, again. Thanks derail attempt.

Why see the whole picture. I know is something foreign to you. Why not share what it is you plan to stand for at the one your pointed to attending rather than derailing about tales of the overrworked and underpaid NYPD?

Spang · Post by **Spang** » October 5, 2011, 3:32 pm

Fuck the police.

miir · Post by **miir** » October 5, 2011, 3:33 pm

Spang wrote:Fuck the police.

With a vegetable.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » October 5, 2011, 6:57 pm

Spang wrote:

When I heard about this, my first thought is, I bet Spang is all over this...

What heroes? You don't have an agenda, your message is vague at best, and my guess is about 50-60% of the people protesting are spoiled little college kids trying to stick it to the MAN, while living on mommy and daddy's money.

Go to Libya, or one of the dozens of other countries trying to get their freedom. Protest there, stand in front of a police officer there and say and do the things these kids are doing and tell me if you really think these kids are abused. Those people are heroes, willing to die for their cause, knowing the probable outcome and doing it anyway. Go there and protest, then I will call them heroes. These kids are comparing themselves to those protesters and it makes me sick.

I am not against protesting, It serves a purpose and if done peacefully can send a message. Most of the protesters that were "abused" were taunting, goading and doing things that went beyond their rights as protesters. Guess what, if you do that, you face the consequences; jail, pepperspray, etc. Mommy and daddy should have explained that to them already.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » October 5, 2011, 7:52 pm

If you've gone to jail for justice, you're in good company.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » October 6, 2011, 5:22 am

You really think a police officer should be able to pepper spray a demonstrator for taunting them? You must be a fucking cop. Only a fucking cop would think that.

You seem to be pretty down on people who are only trying to take their country back from the criminals currently holding your economy hostage.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » October 6, 2011, 10:58 am

Goading a cop isn't a crime unto itself. I also love seeing people arrested for resisting arrest and nothing else.

3rd thing I love is how fucking FAT many of the NYPD cops are. I am a large man, but holy fuck you gotta be some kinda hyper-lardass for your gut to protrude under your kevlar.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » October 6, 2011, 11:27 am

I hope it raises awareness of why we're in the situation we're in and perhaps if we're lucky goads someone in govt to have the will to address it.

Maybe pointing out the Faux news and RNC hysteria about once again implementing regulations designed to prevent it's recurrence as well. "It will slow growth and recovery!!!".

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » October 6, 2011, 11:32 am

I kind of have my doubts that the videos show the entire incident...especially since they were videos taken and released by the protest group. That being said, I do pretty much agree with everything these protesters are there for, but they do need to follow the laws and not be impeding traffic.

There is no need whatsoever for tasers and pepper spray...at least not until they wear their nightsticks out. A little wood shampoo and they will move out of the street.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » October 6, 2011, 1:17 pm

Supposedly there will be something going on in Portland today. I usually commute home via downtown since I do not like to sit on freeways... Think I'll re-route today. Protesters here are your "red paint chucking" fur-protesters, so generally are just shouting aimlessly and impeding traffic as opposed to doing anything productive.

I agree with Kilmoll re: wood shampoo for those that cannot protest peacefully.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » October 6, 2011, 2:17 pm

kyoukan wrote:You really think a police officer should be able to pepper spray a demonstrator for taunting them? You must be a fucking cop. Only a fucking cop would think that.

You seem to be pretty down on people who are only trying to take their country back from the criminals currently holding your economy hostage.

As a last resort I think it is ok. I am not a cop. I also know that if they let the protesters get out of control then there could be full scale riots like in London and years ago here in L.A. I hope they view all the video and if justified, fire or suspend any cops abusing their power. If they did not calm the crowd down and things went full scale riot, the same people would be screaming they should have used nonlethal measures to calm the crowds. They are damned if they do it and damned if they don't.

I am not down at all on the people there for legitimate goals, there is a fringe element there trying to take control. Much like our political parties, the fringe elements seem to be trying to run the show.

Out of curiousity, what are they taking control of? Wall Street is an all encompassing term for the financial markets.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » October 6, 2011, 2:44 pm

Seems to be spilling into Jersey a bit according to the news. I imagine that there will be some activity (if there is not already) in the Newport area of Jersey City (First stop on the PATH if coming from Manhattan.) After 9/11, a ton of financial business went across the river. My former employer (Merrill Lynch) had a couple buildings. My team was based out of 101 Hudson.

Anyway, as Tyek is saying, it ain't just one street!

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » October 6, 2011, 4:17 pm

And of course taunting a cop only serves to make his day just a little shittier, he's quite likely just there to do his job. Be glad you're in the US and it's just pepper spray.

Unless you're blocking the street as part of some non-violent resistance that has bearing on your protest, when he tells you to move, just move, or politely ignore him. Screaming at and taunting them is a waste of both of your time, if they weren't against you except as part of their job, they sure will be after you spit on them.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » October 6, 2011, 5:35 pm

Aabidano wrote:And of course taunting a cop only serves to make his day just a little shittier, he's quite likely just there to do his job

Whose job is shittier; a cop or a McDonalds drive through attendant?

Would you be outraged if the McD's employee pepper sprayed a customer for _something they said_?

Fuck the police, they CHOOSE to be police. They get a lot of power with very little responsibility and forget why.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » October 6, 2011, 6:17 pm

I would say a cop's job is shittier. How often are McDonald's drive thru attendants called on to go into a place where there are armed people who hate them and want to kill them? I am fairly certain no one ever kidnapped someone and forced them to work a drive thru either.

That really may have been the most idiotic statement you have ever made.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » October 6, 2011, 6:41 pm

Zaelath wrote:Would you be outraged if the McD's employee pepper sprayed a customer for _something they said_?

I don't agree with pepper spraying some douche just because they've been yelling at you. That said, I wouldn't think most cops are going to do it just because of that.

On the same token, it's a lot like poking a grouchy dog with a stick for an hour or two then being surprised when it bites you.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » October 6, 2011, 6:46 pm

Aabidano wrote:On the same token, it's a lot like poking a grouchy dog with a stick for an hour or two then being surprised when it bites you.

Other than a dog not being a public servant sworn to serve and protect. So no it's not really like that at all.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » October 6, 2011, 7:10 pm

Zaelath wrote:
Aabidano wrote:And of course taunting a cop only serves to make his day just a little shittier, he's quite likely just there to do his job
Whose job is shittier; a cop or a McDonalds drive through attendant?

Would you be outraged if the McD's employee pepper sprayed a customer for _something they said_?

Fuck the police, they CHOOSE to be police. They get a lot of power with very little responsibility and forget why.

Go ahead and taunt a McDonalds employee before you get your food. Chances are you are going to get something a lot worse then pepper spray with your Big Mac.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » October 6, 2011, 7:35 pm

And the point I distracted myself from, arguing with the cops over stupid stuff only serves to distract attention from what you're there for. Makes them looks like a bunch of twits too.

Had a couple hundred people protesting in downtown Tampa today, signs ran the gamut from anti war to anti pollution to anti greedy bankers.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » October 6, 2011, 7:44 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:I would say a cop's job is shittier. How often are McDonald's drive thru attendants called on to go into a place where there are armed people who hate them and want to kill them? I am fairly certain no one ever kidnapped someone and forced them to work a drive thru either.

That really may have been the most idiotic statement you have ever made.

They're both shitty for different reasons, and the McD's employee doesn't get danger money, but then neither do gas station attendants and a lot of those have to see the wrong end of a gun/knife/syringe.

Really the point is that "chosing a shitty job" isn't a reason to allow you to pepper spray people, especially given that pepper spray is supposed to be the non-lethal alternative to shooting them.

And this explanation to you is the most idiotic statement I've ever made, since it's like explaining to a dog why it's not nice to piss on the floor instead of just kicking it up the arse.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » October 6, 2011, 7:51 pm

Aabidano wrote:And the point I distracted myself from, arguing with the cops over stupid stuff only serves to distract attention from what you're there for. Makes them looks like a bunch of twits too.

Had a couple hundred people protesting in downtown Tampa today, signs ran the gamut from anti war to anti pollution to anti greedy bankers.

I agree that fighting cops is stupid, but for different reasons. You don't get attracted to a "shitty job" like being a cop without either delusions about what cops do or some serious psychological issues, usually both.

I don't agree with this lot of protesters incoherent message any more than the last lot (tea party), but I don't at any point submit to the horseshit that cops have the right to pepper spray, beat, shoot, or otherwise use force against the public without oversight.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » October 6, 2011, 8:02 pm

Regardless of "the modern law enforcement" (insert lol here), there is ample history to cause the general population (especially non-white) to fear cops.

The Watts ~~riots~~uprising is a good example of public-witnessed brutality without cause towards a minority group. Granted that the "racial landscape" was much different then, it is not like similar instances have gone away.

So yeah, I totally see the "fuck the police" mentality. However, it is important to know that in order for a protest to be effective, its message must not be sullied by the protest group doing too much stupid shit!

Spang · Post by **Spang** » October 6, 2011, 11:51 pm

The guy who schooled Fox News.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » October 6, 2011, 11:52 pm

Also, fuck the police.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » October 8, 2011, 5:12 pm

I heard this fine gentleman speak today:

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » October 8, 2011, 11:03 pm

Spang wrote:The guy who schooled Fox News.

The second link to the first video, that was pretty impressive.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » October 8, 2011, 11:09 pm

Another thing... I'm a little bemused by the way the upper class dismisses any attempt to reduce the standard deviation of the income distribution curve as "class warfare", and even more so when people deny it. Resource distribution is the primary impetus for war, it makes religion look like a side show.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » October 8, 2011, 11:39 pm

A very well produced video of #OccupyWallStreet can be viewed here.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » October 9, 2011, 2:25 am

Here I am:

The Source

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » October 9, 2011, 5:55 am

Food not bombs? What a bunch of fucking pussies.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 9, 2011, 8:29 am

The streets will be clear as soon as a decent MMORPG is released. Right now, these people are just bored.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » October 9, 2011, 12:29 pm

Winnow wrote:The streets will be clear as soon as a decent MMORPG is released. Right now, these people are just bored.

Plus, MySpace is dead, their parents are on FB, G+ isn't trendy yet and the barristas are all at the protest.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » October 9, 2011, 1:28 pm

Canelek wrote:Food not bombs? What a bunch of fucking pussies.

You should join the military, pussy.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » October 9, 2011, 1:49 pm

Also, images from yesterday's march on the Air and Space Museum can be found here. You'll notice that our young people are not aging well at all.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » October 9, 2011, 3:17 pm

Which shows the main problems with your protest, there are signs for a BUNCH of different things. No uniform message, no consistency to the message. All I see is Government bad, millitary bad, big business bad, now give me something but make someone else pay.

Obviously everyone is upset with government, but I am not sure what this protest does, you just mix your messages and the meanings are lost in the noise. Who are the protest movements leaders? Where is all the donations and money going? I am just curious.

miir · Post by **miir** » October 9, 2011, 3:18 pm

You're clearly not paying attention.

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » October 9, 2011, 5:26 pm

Tyek wrote:Which shows the main problems with your protest, there are signs for a BUNCH of different things. No uniform message, no consistency to the message. All I see is Government bad, millitary bad, big business bad, now give me something but make someone else pay.

Obviously everyone is upset with government, but I am not sure what this protest does, you just mix your messages and the meanings are lost in the noise. Who are the protest movements leaders? Where is all the donations and money going? I am just curious.

From what I've seen they're trying to suggest that if they have 99% of the votes they should be getting more from their democratically elected government than the 1% with all the money.

Of course, anyone that actually believes democracy works like that is a child; they need to accept what you really have is a distributed dictatorship and move on to the revolution, or go home and accept their lot in life.

kyoukan · Post by **kyoukan** » October 10, 2011, 3:29 am

The problem with the left in the US has always been leadership and staying on message. They don't really have a cohesive voice like all the shady backrooms that conservatives get when it comes to controlling the message. This is really why they win most elections outside the deep south. It is easy to manipulate people if you stick to one message and unify everybody behind it. Keep it really simple for people to understand, and repeat it over and over again until it magically becomes truth. It is very much like training a dog. You push it's ass onto the ground and go "sit!" and eventually the dog figures out when you say that sound, it means we want his ass on the floor. He doesn't know that that word means. He's a stupid fucking dog. But he does it.

It's the same reason you have drooltards like Kilmoll suddenly calling rich, privileged people who don't pay their fair share in income tax "job creators" after 10 years of posting on these message boards.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » October 10, 2011, 11:41 am

And you are still an ignorant buffoon. Small business owners and multi-million $$$$ a year CEO asshats of big businesses are NOT the same. Not even fucking close. Your ass-clown liberal fucktards want to tax everyone that the bottom feeding never worked a day in their life waste of flesh idiots THINK is rich.

There is a LARGE percentage of jobs that are created here in the US by small business owners. Those are the people who do not need taxed heavier. If the incompetent shit stains wanted to rape the salaries of people making a mil or more a year, you would not see anywhere near the outcry. Their plan sucks as it is written.

Avestan · Post by **Avestan** » October 10, 2011, 1:50 pm

I am actually a fan of what Warren B proposed before it was distorted by both parties. His core suggestion was to tax approximately the top 50,000 earners in the US a lot more.

The folks on the left try to take that statement and equate it to the current tax proposal. The problem with that is that a tax on $250k+ is not the top 50,000. In 2009, 492k people had adjusted incomes between $500k and $1MM. An additional 150k made more than $1MM. I do not have a number for exactly 250k, but over 3 million people made between $200k and $500k.

My best guess is that there are about 2 million people in the US making over 250k in a year right now. That is less than 1% of the US population so it may seem ok, but keep in mind that this tax is not adjusted for inflation (like AMT). A reasonable forecast would be that the number of people affected by this tax will at least double in the next seven years. Within a decade, more like 2% of the US population will be paying this tax.

$250k per year is a good salary, but if you live in California or NYC and have a kid or two, it is hardly a life lounging by the pool ordering cocktails today - much less a decade from now.

Warren basically wants to raise capital gains for a select few individuals who can really be deemed as "ulta-wealthy". I am fine with that - the problem is that it does not raise close to enough revenue to fix the problem - thus it is spun into a system that within a decade starts to become a tax on the upper-middle class. Maybe you still think that it is a good tax or maybe you don't, but it pisses me off that this thing is spun as a tax that will only affect the wealthy - let's call a spade a spade.

Neroon · Post by **Neroon** » October 10, 2011, 3:20 pm

They are only talking about raising the 250k+ bracket from 35% to 39%. It's not like they are trying to fleece them.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts ... ?Docid=213

Funny how the debt started going out of control in the 80's. Notice any correlation!?