I've been a vegetarian for two days.

miir · Post by **miir** » August 15, 2011, 11:45 am

But think of all the people in your life who have died of the diseases I mentioned: were they vegan?

The chances of knowing a vegan who has died from those diseases is pretty minuscule because estimates show that less than 0.5% of Americans are vegans.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » August 15, 2011, 12:04 pm

Everyone I knew ate vegetables too. By your line of reasoning, the plants were the problem.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » August 15, 2011, 1:23 pm

Boogahz wrote:Everyone I knew ate vegetables too.

Vegetables don't clog arteries.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » August 15, 2011, 1:46 pm

Guns don't kill people!

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » August 15, 2011, 1:52 pm

Spang wrote:
Boogahz wrote:Everyone I knew ate vegetables too.
Vegetables don't clog arteries.

Nobody said their arteries were clogged.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » August 15, 2011, 1:55 pm

Boogahz wrote:Nobody said their arteries were clogged.

Vegetables aren't a contributing factor in diabetes, strokes or Alzheimer's, either.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » August 15, 2011, 1:59 pm

Spang wrote:
Boogahz wrote:Nobody said their arteries were clogged.
Vegetables aren't a contributing factor in diabetes, strokes or Alzheimer's, either.

how do you know? If they consumed both, in moderation, how do you know it wasn't the vegetables?

Spang · Post by **Spang** » August 15, 2011, 2:00 pm

Boogahz wrote:If they consumed both, in moderation, how do you know it wasn't the vegetables?

Common sense.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » August 15, 2011, 2:07 pm

Well it's a good thing you're an all knowing professional on any and everything to do with nutrition and so willing to tell us what we need to do, otherwise we would be completely fucking lost.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » August 15, 2011, 2:12 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:Well it's a good thing you're an all knowing professional on any and everything to do with nutrition and so willing to tell us what we need to do, otherwise we would be completely fucking lost.

Feel free to refute any of my arguments.

miir · Post by **miir** » August 15, 2011, 2:40 pm

Spang wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:Well it's a good thing you're an all knowing professional on any and everything to do with nutrition and so willing to tell us what we need to do, otherwise we would be completely fucking lost.
Feel free to refute any of my arguments.

Feel free to refute any of ours... you know, with actual facts.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » August 15, 2011, 2:44 pm

miir wrote:Feel free to refute any of ours... you know, with actual facts.

What's your argument?

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » August 15, 2011, 2:45 pm

Spang wrote: I've been debating you people all goddamn thread. Most of my arguments can't be refuted

Your "science" and nutrition based have all been refuted in a logical fashion from reality based sources.

No one disagees with the moral choice you've made. Please stop trying to jusify it with made up facts. That's where you become as believable as a creation "scientist".

miir · Post by **miir** » August 15, 2011, 2:45 pm

The number of vegans in the US is increasing
American life expectancy is falling.

Coincidence?

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » August 15, 2011, 2:53 pm

I'd argue that a diet with too much meat (chicken, beef, pork) is worse for your health than one with too many vegetables. Far worse.

however

I'd argue that a mostly-vegetarian diet with occasional lean meat leads to as long of a healthy lifespan as vegetarianism offers, with added bonuses of being tastier and less time consuming.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » August 15, 2011, 3:17 pm

Spang wrote:
Boogahz wrote:Nobody said their arteries were clogged.
Vegetables aren't a contributing factor in diabetes, strokes or Alzheimer's, either.

Have you ever heard of High Fructose Corn Syrup? The corn stands for CORN! Which as you may not know is a vegetable. I'd say this shit is a bigger threat to peoples health than meat.

Checkmate!

miir · Post by **miir** » August 15, 2011, 3:23 pm

Tobacco is a vegetable and it's killed tons of people.

Slam dunk!

Spang · Post by **Spang** » August 15, 2011, 3:25 pm

Aslanna wrote:Have you ever heard of High Fructose Corn Syrup?

Yes.

Aslanna wrote:The corn stands for CORN! Which as you may not know is a vegetable. I'd say this shit is a bigger threat to peoples health than meat.

High-fructose corn syrup absolutely is a threat to people's health...because it's a processed food.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » August 15, 2011, 3:26 pm

Watch out, they're on fiiiiiirre!!11!1!

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » August 15, 2011, 3:28 pm

Spang wrote:
Aslanna wrote:The corn stands for CORN! Which as you may not know is a vegetable. I'd say this shit is a bigger threat to peoples health than meat.
High-fructose corn syrup absolutely is a threat to people's health...because it's a processed food.

Processed... vegetable.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » August 15, 2011, 3:28 pm

Spang · Post by **Spang** » August 15, 2011, 3:29 pm

miir wrote:Tobacco is a vegetable and it's killed tons of people.

With the help of a shitload of cancer-causing chemicals.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » August 15, 2011, 3:31 pm

Aslanna wrote:Processed... vegetable.

It looks like we both agree that processed food is bad for you.

miir · Post by **miir** » August 15, 2011, 3:34 pm

Spang wrote:
miir wrote:Tobacco is a vegetable and it's killed tons of people.
With the help of a shitload of cancer-causing chemicals.

And one of those additives is HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP!!!

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » August 15, 2011, 3:37 pm

Meanwhile, diets which include occasional lean meat are just as healthy for life as diets with no meat at all.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » August 15, 2011, 3:51 pm

A fat heavy diet isn't the death sentence once thought either, gobs of other variables. Heredity being a big one.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » August 15, 2011, 3:54 pm

Yes. Feel free to remove "lean" from my argument.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » August 15, 2011, 4:01 pm

Spang wrote:
Aslanna wrote:Processed... vegetable.
It looks like we both agree that processed food is bad for you.

Being as corn is the largest ingredient in HFCS what I'm saying is I disagree with your statement: "Vegetables aren't a contributing factor in diabetes, strokes or Alzheimer's, either."

so yeah It is a contributing factor!

Listen.. People have been eating meat for thousands of years. Meat isn't what is making people fat and/or killing them. Take a look at obesity growth rates.. They sure didn't start going up when meat was invented.

Honestly if you're simply 'debating' this based on the health aspect that meat is bad for you you're going to lose no matter what you say. If it's a moral issue then go ahead and knock yourself out.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » August 15, 2011, 9:11 pm

Oh c'mon, just admit it, we all know it's true, but never talk about it. Maybe some of you medical people can tell us. Why do vegans smell so awful? Do they really not notice that dreadful stench, or is it a gradual problem that increases so slowly they don't detect it? Is it caused by a dietary deficit, or by the same condition that causes them to be vegan in the first place? Is there a dietary cure for it, or do you just have to spray them with a masking agent like turpentine or oil of mercaptan, and stay upwind? What can we do to stop stinky vegans from ruining our bus rides, meals, and other public activities?

http://tribes.tribe.net/376ab122-6dde-4 ... 65db297e19

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » August 15, 2011, 9:19 pm

Aabidano wrote:A fat heavy diet isn't the death sentence once thought either, gobs of other variables. Heredity being a big one.

Unless of course that fat's coming out of Taco Bell, McDonald's or all the pre-processed, "value added" garbage in the middle part of the grocery store. Then it pretty much is a death sentence.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » August 15, 2011, 9:22 pm

Time is a death sentence.. What can you do?

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » August 15, 2011, 9:35 pm

Welcome Back Spang, I missed you. This thread was dying while you went to get more "facts" about vegans and their lifestyle. Please tell us more about the invention of the food chain and other facts that are not debatable. Getting facts from people who want to turn you towards their life choices are always balanced and scientific. Please continue...

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » August 15, 2011, 9:44 pm

Hobo-chic is the new thing.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » August 15, 2011, 11:35 pm

Aslanna wrote:Being as corn is the largest ingredient in HFCS what I'm saying is I disagree with your statement: "Vegetables aren't a contributing factor in diabetes, strokes or Alzheimer's, either."

Corn by itself isn't harmful. Corn processed into high-fructose corn syrup is. The corn isn't what's making the high-fructose corn syrup harmful.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » August 16, 2011, 12:11 am

Spang wrote:Corn by itself isn't harmful. Corn processed into high-fructose corn syrup is. The corn isn't what's making the high-fructose corn syrup harmful.

Without corn there could be no HFCS. Duh!

Spang · Post by **Spang** » August 16, 2011, 12:16 am

Aslanna wrote:
Spang wrote:Corn by itself isn't harmful. Corn processed into high-fructose corn syrup is. The corn isn't what's making the high-fructose corn syrup harmful.
Without corn there could be no HFCS. Duh!

There'd still be corn, and that's not harmful.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » August 16, 2011, 12:18 am

Spang wrote:
Aslanna wrote:
Spang wrote:Corn by itself isn't harmful. Corn processed into high-fructose corn syrup is. The corn isn't what's making the high-fructose corn syrup harmful.
Without corn there could be no HFCS. Duh!
There'd still be corn, and that's not harmful.

You are such a pussy living in the 90s.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » August 16, 2011, 12:19 am

Spang wrote:There'd still be corn, and that's not harmful.

That doesn't even make sense. You're boring me now. Come back in two more weeks with some more "facts". You've nearly convinced me to give up my evil ways.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » August 16, 2011, 12:22 am

Aslanna wrote:That doesn't even make sense.

Corn is not bad for you, processed food is. Also, water is wet.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » August 16, 2011, 12:24 am

Spang wrote:Corn is not bad for you, processed food is. Also, water is wet.

And also you're a fucking dumbass. I don't think we need to wake the editor for a special edition at this juncture.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » August 16, 2011, 2:08 am

According to Deborah Cooper of ProHealth.com, a website dedicated to helping people with medical issues find solutions to better manage their symptoms while living with illness, "Foods such as potatoes, tomatoes and eggplant, sometimes referred to as "nightshade foods," could be the cause of stiff joints, pain and inflammation."

Cooper goes on to say that while many doctors doubt the connection between food and arthritis symptoms, many others refer to studies supporting the theory.

VegSource.com has reported on a study of rheumatoid arthritis patients fed a low-fat vegan diet. The patients participating in the study reported afterwards that they had noticeable relief from their arthritis symptoms.

Alkaline Diet
According to the medical website Medicinenet.com, many experts recommend the alkaline diet. This diet excludes acids, which are said to trigger arthritis symptoms. This diet doesn't allow sugar, coffee, red meat or acidic fruits.

Gluten

Some food sources will be harder to avoid than others. Gluten is an example of this. Alternatives4arthritis.com reports that many people find that they have improvement in their symptoms when gluten is eliminated from their diet. Gluten is found in wheat, rye, barley and oats. The difficulty is that gluten is included as an ingredient in such a huge variety of food products that it can be hard to avoid. No one would expect to find gluten in their ice cream, but it is often used as a binding ingredient.

The good news is that as public attention has grown about this issue, there is a wide variety of gluten-free products now available at every local supermarket. Also, many commonly used products now feature a clear banner on their packaging proclaiming that it is a gluten-free product. Still, those wishing to eliminate gluten completely from their diet must become proficient at reading product labels.

Spang, Seriously, I am glad the Vegan thing is working for you. The fact is moderation is the key. Fish are very good for us, that is meat. This article points out Vegans have found some relief from their diet, but it also points to numerous fruits and vegetables that cause flare ups. I know arthritis is not a big deal to most, but as a sufferer I can tell you it is not fun in any way shape or form.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » August 16, 2011, 2:41 am

Aslanna wrote:And also you're a fucking dumbass.

Your rationalizations for continuing to contribute to the torture and slaughter of animals are shit. You claim that it's okay to eat meat because people have been doing it for thousands of years. But if that's the case, then we never should have ended slavery or women's suffrage. We probably should have continued the extermination of Native Americans, and not interfered with Hitler's quest to rid the world of Jews. You're participating in a holocaust right now. You'll argue that they're only animals, but you'll be repeating the same argument as Hitler, who, by the way, was not a vegetarian.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » August 16, 2011, 2:47 am

Spang wrote:Your rationalizations for continuing to contribute to the torture and slaughter of animals are shit. You claim that it's okay to eat meat because people have been doing it for thousands of years. But if that's the case, then we never should have ended slavery or women's suffrage. We probably should have continued the extermination of Native Americans, and not interfered with Hitler's quest to rid the world of Jews. You're participating in a holocaust right now. You'll argue that they're only animals, but you'll be repeating the same argument as Hitler, who, by the way, was not a vegetarian.

Who said I was rationalizing anything? Here's a fucking clue since you obviously can't get one on your own: I don't need to rationalize shit to you or anyone else.

And comparing me to Hitler? What the shit dude? You're off your rocker. You really need to get a grip on reality.

Troll.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » August 16, 2011, 2:51 am

Spang wrote:
Aslanna wrote:And also you're a fucking dumbass.
Your rationalizations for continuing to contribute to the torture and slaughter of animals are shit. You claim that it's okay to eat meat because people have been doing it for thousands of years. But if that's the case, then we never should have ended slavery or women's suffrage. We probably should have continued the extermination of Native Americans, and not interfered with Hitler's quest to rid the world of Jews. You're participating in a holocaust right now. You'll argue that they're only animals, but you'll be repeating the same argument as Hitler, who, by the way, was not a vegetarian.

Wow that science is not refutable, you were right!

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » August 16, 2011, 2:57 am

Tyek wrote:Wow that science is not refutable, you were right!

Spang wrote:I've been debating you people all goddamn thread. Most of my arguments can't be refuted, which is made abundantly clear when the rebuttals consist of pictures of steak, descriptions of what a person ate for lunch and lolcopters.

You can't handle his debate! Don't even try!

Oh I almost forgot:

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » August 16, 2011, 3:27 am

Spang wrote:
Aslanna wrote:And also you're a fucking dumbass.
Your rationalizations for continuing to contribute to the torture and slaughter of animals are shit. You claim that it's okay to eat meat because people have been doing it for thousands of years. But if that's the case, then we never should have ended slavery or women's suffrage. We probably should have continued the extermination of Native Americans, and not interfered with Hitler's quest to rid the world of Jews. You're participating in a holocaust right now. You'll argue that they're only animals, but you'll be repeating the same argument as Hitler, who, by the way, was not a vegetarian.

Your dormroom fantasies are impressive. Well, to other confused college kids, perhaps. However, you mysogony and reckless hatred is rather prevalent. I hope your estrogen and soy-based mantits are working for you.

Ps: I fucked your mother. Yes, but I own my shame, racist.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » August 16, 2011, 3:36 am

Canelek wrote:I hope your estrogen and soy-based mantits are working for you.

Meat and dairy products have twice the amount of animal-based estrogen than the plant estrogen found in soy.

Canelek wrote:Ps: I fucked your mother.

Good, I hope she enjoyed it.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » August 16, 2011, 4:34 am

Only half? Un petite? Let's see em. Show us your tits you pussy.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » August 16, 2011, 4:42 am

Canelek wrote:Only half? Un petite? Let's see em. Show us your tits you pussy.

Your turn, sweetheart.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » August 16, 2011, 7:05 am

Spang wrote:Meat and dairy products have twice the amount of animal-based estrogen than the plant estrogen found in soy.

I'd have thought it would have been higher than that with all the added growth hormones they're given.