Israel boards ships in international waters

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » June 4, 2010, 3:28 pm

That does not make sense.

Wouldn't the logic be, if the intruder knew I had a gun, broke into the house anyway and got shot, then he would be at least partially at fault.

Your statement had it backwards I think, but then again they have me so loaded with meds I could be wrong.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » June 4, 2010, 3:29 pm

miir wrote:The history between Israel and Plaestine is a whole other discussion and I was hoping this thread wouldn't fall into that bottomless pit.

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Anyway, I just dont understand how people can make up excuses for Israel in this instance.
They were the aggressors.
If they had just stayed the fuck off that boat (that they had no right boarding), this would not have even been news.

But instead they chose to use the same terror tactics that they constantly accuse Palestine of.

You are right...they should not have boarded it.

They should have sunk it with missiles or torpedoes.

miir · Post by **miir** » June 4, 2010, 3:30 pm

Tyek wrote:Wouldn't the logic be, if the intruder knew I had a gun, broke into the house anyway and got shot, then he would be at least partially at fault.

The flotilla was in international waters.
It had not crossed any real or imaginary border or blockade.
They did nothing 'illegal'

Zver · Post by **Zver** » June 4, 2010, 3:37 pm

In the past, IDF has covertly disabled boat engines. Not sure why they haven’t done that this time. But I do agree with Kilmoll, they should have just sunk their asses just as North Korea did and just say we don’t know wtf you all talking about

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » June 4, 2010, 4:23 pm

miir wrote:
Tyek wrote:Wouldn't the logic be, if the intruder knew I had a gun, broke into the house anyway and got shot, then he would be at least partially at fault.
The flotilla was in international waters.
It had not crossed any real or imaginary border or blockade.
They did nothing 'illegal'

Again you are acting like this was the Love Boat out for a cruise. They stated publicly they were coming, stated publicly they were going to pass without stopping any real or imaginary border and they attacked the boats as they were boarding, throwing stun grenade and other implements on the soldiers below them.

Is it really hard to say maybe just maybe they also had a part in the tragedy? Seriously, it doesn't mean, what Israel did was right. I still have not said they are right. I don't think they were, they could have handled it a number of different ways, but apparently your hate of the US and Israel supercedes your rational thought process.

miir · Post by **miir** » June 4, 2010, 5:14 pm

Tyek wrote:apparently your hate of the US and Israel supercedes your rational thought process.

Who's even talking about the US?
Kilmoll?
Nick?
I sure as fuck am not.

And how the fuck does criticizing a single Israeli terrorist act equate to me hating Israel?

You obiously have no clue what rational thought is.

Hesten · Post by **Hesten** » June 4, 2010, 5:15 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:
miir wrote:The history between Israel and Plaestine is a whole other discussion and I was hoping this thread wouldn't fall into that bottomless pit.

-----------

Anyway, I just dont understand how people can make up excuses for Israel in this instance.
They were the aggressors.
If they had just stayed the fuck off that boat (that they had no right boarding), this would not have even been news.

But instead they chose to use the same terror tactics that they constantly accuse Palestine of.
You are right...they should not have boarded it.

They should have sunk it with missiles or torpedoes.

You DO know that sinking boats in international waters are an act of war, right?

miir · Post by **miir** » June 4, 2010, 5:16 pm

Zver wrote:In the past, IDF has covertly disabled boat engines. Not sure why they haven’t done that this time.

That would have been the smart and rational thing to do.
It's not clear why they decided on the terrorism option.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » June 4, 2010, 5:27 pm

Because it is Israel and Palestine? It is what they do....and it is all either side knows how to do.

The ONLY way anything will happen there is if the UN grows enough balls to put UN forces between them and they immediately shoot destroy anyone who dares to commit an aggressive act against the other.

miir · Post by **miir** » June 4, 2010, 5:31 pm

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Because it is Israel and Palestine? It is what they do....and it is all either side knows how to do.

The ONLY way anything will happen there is if the UN grows enough balls to put UN forces between them and they immediately shoot destroy anyone who dares to commit an aggressive act against the other.

It pains me to say that I almost agree with you on that.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » June 4, 2010, 5:49 pm

Miir,

I should have clarified, I just meant based on your posting history, you have shown that you are not the biggest fan of the US. Oh well, it is just pointless discussion anyway.

I come here because I enjoy (mostly) some of the discussions on here. I think all in all, it is a pretty intelligent group. I also like that their are different viewpoints. I am not stuck on any one ideology and open to other thoughts and ideas. I don't always agree, but I don't need to. If I learn something I did not know I am not afraid to change my mind based on new information.

My main point is the same as it was at the start. What happened was uncalled for, sad and tragic. I was only saying that while Israel was clearly wrong, they were also put into the incident through the actions of both parties and as Kilmoll pointed out and Boog showed in his link, these people don't seem to learn. It is just sad.

Have a great weekend.

miir · Post by **miir** » June 4, 2010, 6:36 pm

Tyek wrote:Have a great weekend.

You too.. was a fun discussion, eventhough you all ganged up on me!

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » June 4, 2010, 11:25 pm

All I know for sure was there were a lot of journalists on that boat... a lot more details will emerge from people that have direct access to mainstream media, quite a few that probably have credible histories (I don't think the aussie journos were jews/arabs or otherwise linked to either side)

I thought by far the most unlikely part of the tale is the Israeli soldier being disarmed early into the boarding and the gun used on them; if true, it's pretty breath-takingly incompetent.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » June 5, 2010, 1:27 am

Zaelath wrote:I thought by far the most unlikely part of the tale is the Israeli soldier being disarmed early into the boarding and the gun used on them; if true, it's pretty breath-takingly incompetent.

Could you imagine having to explain that one to your superiors?

Zver · Post by **Zver** » June 5, 2010, 8:35 am

IDF navy forces boarded and took control of the MV Rachel Corrie Saturday afternoon. The troops did not meet any resistance from activists attempting to break the Gaza blockade, and the operation was completed without violent incidents. (yay nothing says we are serious like putting a bullet thru nine assholes !

Hesten · Post by **Hesten** » June 5, 2010, 1:26 pm

I just wonder how the US would react if Palestinian ships would try to board one of their ships sailing in the same part of international water, no matter what kind of goods they were bringing to Israel

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » June 5, 2010, 9:51 pm

Well first of all, we would not be bringing sticks to a gunfight. Second, we would be making apologies for sinking their vessel.

Hesten · Post by **Hesten** » June 6, 2010, 5:09 am

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Well first of all, we would not be bringing sticks to a gunfight. Second, we would be making apologies for sinking their vessel.

So if one of your ships was attacked, its ok to defend yourself, and sink other ships, but if a ship with supplies for Palestine is, its evil if they defend themselves? Way to go on double morality.

Tyek · Post by **Tyek** » June 6, 2010, 3:55 pm

Hesten wrote:
Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:Well first of all, we would not be bringing sticks to a gunfight. Second, we would be making apologies for sinking their vessel.
So if one of your ships was attacked, its ok to defend yourself, and sink other ships, but if a ship with supplies for Palestine is, its evil if they defend themselves? Way to go on double morality.

Heston, I think I was the one who pointed out they had weapons with them. I was not saying it is not ok to defend themselves, but it does damage their credibility as a organization. They stated this was an effort to bring needed medical and building supplies to the area.

If they were to film the Israeli Army taking the items off their boat while they all stood with their arms up it would have created an uproar. Can you imagine the image of this group, weapons trained on them, arms up, watching the army take their medical supplies? Or worse, but even more damaging for Israel would have been if they still attack the boat, killed people and there were NO weapons or attack, just medical supplies. Israel would be getting a lot more heat on this one.

Again, this is not me saying the people on the boat are right or wrong. If they wanted images, which it seems they did, either of those two would have been much better then ones of these guys swinging rods, planning attacks and dropping hand grenades that were released.

Hesten · Post by **Hesten** » June 6, 2010, 6:04 pm

So lets see....by now Israel refused international investigation of the incident, they made a mock "We con the world" music video to make fun of it and then do the "whoops, we didnt mean it" when it was out in public, and boarded the next ship, this time with the demonstrators NOT fighting back, but accepting the ship being redirected to an israeli port, and the content being transferred to Gaza after the Israelis are done with it...

The music video is here if you wanna see it. Its actually pretty well made

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOGG_osOoVg
And to be fair, it was a satiric group that made the video, but appearantly the Israeli governments PR department were the ones sending links of it around to the media.

What do you Israeli excusers fell about those?

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » June 6, 2010, 6:34 pm

The more I see about it on the news, this was a group clearly forewarned that they were going to be boarded who were looking for an incident to put on the news.

I suppose Israel could have waited a little longer and then just sank them, would that have been a better solution?

There's 15,000 tons of aid brought into Gaza annually via Israel, Hamas apparently has better things to do with their funds than feed the people who've elected them.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » June 6, 2010, 6:49 pm

Good for Israel for supporting the video. Satire always gets the point across.

Israel will be unharmed and is made more resilient to media attacks because of this hullabaloo.

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » June 6, 2010, 8:59 pm

Hesten wrote:What do you Israeli excusers fell about those?

Who the fuck are all of these "excusers" you're whining about? Imaginary monkeys in your bed again?

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » June 6, 2010, 9:50 pm

And now we see it was just a prelude for Hamas's biggest backer to directly engage Israel. I sincerely don't want to see it happen, but I can imagine this getting very ugly about the time those zealots cross into their territorial waters. I assume they'll fare as well as everyone else who's tangled with the Israelis.

Iran's navy offers to escort Gaza ships
Official: Elite Revolutionary Guards are prepared to intervene

TEHRAN - Iran's elite Revolutionary Guards are ready to provide a military escort to cargo ships trying to break Israel's blockade of Gaza, a representative of Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said on Sunday.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37537320/ns ... tn_africa/

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » June 6, 2010, 10:25 pm

Should be interesting since they don't recognize Israel as a State!

Hesten · Post by **Hesten** » June 7, 2010, 4:38 am

Boogahz wrote:
Hesten wrote:What do you Israeli excusers fell about those?
Who the fuck are all of these "excusers" you're whining about? Imaginary monkeys in your bed again?

I mean those like Kilmoll that appearantly seem to think that boarding aid vessels in international waters, and killing people on board is ok. Especially when considering that the embargo is condemned by the UN in the first place.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » June 7, 2010, 11:54 am

If it is condemned by the UN then the UN should be the people to tear it down. It is time they did something other than wag a finger saying, "Naughty".

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » June 7, 2010, 1:11 pm

^----- Bingo.

I am no Israel apologist. Every statement I have made regarding that conflict has been that a 3rd party (the absolutely worthless pile of dung that is the UN) needs to intervene and set up a DMZ between the two and have neither side "owning" the disputed area.

Zver · Post by **Zver** » June 8, 2010, 9:45 am

Another 4 "innocent civilians" were shot to death by IDF yesterday. They were wearing their scuba gear, I’m sure they were just snorkeling just of the shores of Gaza and tide kept on pushing them towards Israel! Dam those Israelis!!!!!!!

miir · Post by **miir** » June 8, 2010, 10:07 am

Zver wrote:Another 4 "innocent civilians" were shot to death by IDF yesterday. They were wearing their scuba gear, I’m sure they were just snorkeling just of the shores of Gaza and tide kept on pushing them towards Israel! Dam those Israelis!!!!!!!

You pretty much exclude yourself from rational discussion when you spew Israeli propaganda.
And Israel actually murdered 6 Palestinians 250 meters off the Gaza coast.

Israel is doing a far better job of wiping Palestine (and Palestinians) off the map than the Muslims are at wiping Israel off the map.

The current score is:
Israel - 1760
Palestine - 117

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 8, 2010, 11:58 am

miir wrote:
The current score is:
Israel - 1760
Palestine - 117

The kill count would be in the millions for Palistine but they suck! Can't blame the Israelis for being good shots!

miir · Post by **miir** » June 8, 2010, 1:43 pm

It doesn't take a good shot to hit a slow moving fishing boat with a multi-million dollar assault helicoptor.

My point is that Palestine is actually the country in danger of being (literally) wiped off the map.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » June 8, 2010, 1:47 pm

Then stop throwing rocks at the people who are going to do it?

Unlike Hama's backers, Israel does not have a policy aimed at Palestine's destruction.

miir · Post by **miir** » June 8, 2010, 2:56 pm

Aabidano wrote:Israel does not have a policy aimed at Palestine's destruction.

No, their policy is to forcibly remove Palestinians from their homes, bulldoze them, build Jewish 'settlements' and throw the displaced Palestinians into camps and isolate those camps with security walls, watchtowers and blockades.

Sure there are fundamentalist Muslims spout off about wiping Israel off the map but it's mostly just idle threats. They don't exactly have the means to act on their words. They are backed by other muslim countries but that backing is pretty meaningless because those countries are too fucking busy trying to wipe each other off the map.
On the other hand, the Israeli government is doing a pretty damn good job of getting rid of Palestine. They don't need to make threats, they just do it and they have the backing of the most powerful nations on earth who don't want to be accused of being anti-semitic.

Jice Virago · Post by **Jice Virago** » June 8, 2010, 6:18 pm

Once again, fuck Israel. They have fucked us so many times in the past (including selling nuclear sub secrets to the soviets at the hight of the cold war) that we really need to pull the fucking leash on that giant jewish retirement home we fund. If they didn't have all of that holocaust guild and (lets face it) the private desire to not have them live anywhere else in Europe that led to the formation of their state in the first place, we might actually get along with the Muslim world right now. Instead Iran is going to provoke the reactionist fuckers even more by escorting the ships and then we will truely have a big bowl of shit to look forward to.

Seriously, the sooner we (the US) force them to start acting in a civilized manner, the sooner things will start improving in the middle east. We are their greatest enabler, thanks to the attitudes displayed by people like Kilmol above.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » June 8, 2010, 10:08 pm

Ah yes. I am an enabler of Israel. Forgot all about me making foreign policy....you stupid fucking tool. If it were up to me I would pull the US out of the Middle East entirely and let the fucking UN (not) deal with it. Then when Israel completely wiped the region out , we could buy our oil from them cheap and not have to worry anywhere near as much about terrorists.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » June 9, 2010, 11:13 am

Maybe they should have taken the location in Brazil instead all those years ago. Wonder what the world would be like then.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » June 9, 2010, 11:27 am

Bubba Grizz wrote:Maybe they should have taken the location in Brazil instead all those years ago. Wonder what the world would be like then.

Awhile back, during my peace loving days, I suggested a strip of land between Alaska and Canada (maybe 100 miles on each side of the border) where Israel could move. They'd even have oil!

miir · Post by **miir** » June 9, 2010, 11:38 am

Now some Israelis is crying because artists are cancelling shows.... apparently if a band cancels a show in Israel, they are terrorists comitting an act of terrorism!
CULTURAL TERRORISM!

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/08/arts/ ... N_BRF.html

I am full of both sorrow and pain in light of the fact that our repeated attempts to present quality acts and festivals in Israel have increasingly been falling victim to what I can only describe as a form of cultural terrorism which is targeting Israel and the arts worldwide

Maybe they coerce the US to send Elvis Costello and the Pixies to gitmo.

Hesten · Post by **Hesten** » June 9, 2010, 12:25 pm

miir wrote:Now some Israelis is crying because artists are cancelling shows.... apparently if a band cancels a show in Israel, they are terrorists comitting an act of terrorism!
CULTURAL TERRORISM!

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/08/arts/ ... N_BRF.html
I am full of both sorrow and pain in light of the fact that our repeated attempts to present quality acts and festivals in Israel have increasingly been falling victim to what I can only describe as a form of cultural terrorism which is targeting Israel and the arts worldwide
Maybe they coerce the US to send Elvis Costello and the Pixies to gitmo.

Lol miir, that is absolutely priceless....so after invading foreign ships in international waters, killing 9 crewmembers that try to defend against the act of war that invading ships in international water is, and people get pissed and them and cancels concerts, THEY are the victims?

Zver · Post by **Zver** » June 9, 2010, 4:06 pm

another piece of propaganda for your viewing pleasure

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=ZprVPKi-W6s

Zaelath · Post by **Zaelath** » June 10, 2010, 9:48 am

Zver wrote:another piece of propaganda for your viewing pleasure

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=ZprVPKi-W6s

Things I learnt from that video:

- I must remember to go back to my old home and tell them to GTFO, I was there first.
- a 6:1 retaliatory kill ratio is "extending the hand of peace"
- all jewish chicks are super hot, and all arab chicks are fat and ugly.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » June 10, 2010, 12:53 pm

The awesome part about that video is how they claim the Roman conquest of Jerusalem was somehow less legitimate than the Jewish conquest of what was then Canaan.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » June 10, 2010, 1:07 pm

The Images Israel Didn’t Want Seen: Video and Photographs from the Gaza-Bound Aid Flotilla

In the wake of the commando raid that left nine dead, the Israeli government confiscated every recording and communication device it could find–thus allowing the state to control what the world learned about the assault.

Democracy Now! has interviewed some of the reporters, filmmakers, and photographers who managed to smuggle out some of their images.

The Sydney Morning Herald’s Paul McGeough and Kate Geraghty Were on the Challenger I–another one of the ships that was in the Freedom Flotilla along with the Mavi Marmara. Photographer Kate Geraghty took hundreds of photographs, most of which were confiscated by the IDF.

Watch the interview with Paul McGeough and Kate Geraghty and see a few of her photographs here.

Filmmaker and activist Iara Lee was one of the few Americans on-board the Mavi Marmara. Her equipment was confiscated but she managed to smuggle out an hour’s worth of footage.

Watch a 5 minute cut of Lee’s footage here:

The Video

miir · Post by **miir** » June 10, 2010, 2:20 pm

So Zver, how many Israelis have been forcibly removed thier homes so that they could be bulldozed to make room for Palestinian settlements within Israel?

I'm not saying that Palestinians are peace loving innocents. They are also to blame for the current situation ... but can you not at least understand why they might be just a little bit pissed off at Israel?

Gzette · Post by **Gzette** » June 10, 2010, 2:35 pm

Boogahz · Post by **Boogahz** » June 10, 2010, 2:39 pm

glad that irritating hag is finally done

Zver · Post by **Zver** » June 10, 2010, 2:42 pm

miir wrote:So Zver, how many Israelis have been forcibly removed thier homes so that they could be bulldozed to make room for Palestinian settlements within Israel?

dont know the exact number of people, but there were 18 Israeli settlements in the Sinai Peninsula and 21 in Gaza Strip. All of these areas were withdrawn and bulldozed from 1982 and 2005.

miir wrote:I'm not saying that Palestinians are peace loving innocents. They are also to blame for the current situation ... but can you not at least understand why they might be just a little bit pissed off at Israel?

we can play the blame game all day long but in the end, Palestinians are not intrested in peace - all they want is to destroy Israel.

miir · Post by **miir** » June 10, 2010, 2:54 pm

Zver wrote:we can play the blame game all day long but in the end, Palestinians are not intrested in peace - all they want is to destroy Israel.

So you're saying Israel is actually interested in making peace with Palestine?
Or would it be more accurate to say that they publicly say that they want peace with Palestine while doing the exact fucking opposite.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » June 10, 2010, 3:07 pm

Neither of them want peace. They both want an excuse to kill brownies....I mean who can blame them? Everyone loves that game....the US, Russia, Canada, pretty much every country that ever existed in Europe except for maybe the Swedes. People love killing darkies. All video games should have nothing but killing the brown people and their sales will skyrocket.