The no-vote vote is coming

[Forthe]

Midnight: Stop using socialism and go with fascism. Your willful ignorance doesn't change the definition of the words you are using!!!

Obama has US politics all fucked up:
1) Conservatives calling a conservative based plan socialism
2) Liberals (except the far left) celebrating a conservative based plan
3) Republicans campaigning against cuts to Medicare
4) Liberals accepting cuts to Medicare

Up is down and down is up.

And what he has done to Romney is beyond funny. Romney is now a socialist because Obama's plan is a clone of Romney's. So Romney is now attacking his own plan that he was bragging about in 2008, further enforcing the perception that Romney is a total fraud.

[Midnyte_Ragebringer]

WHERE DO YOU THINK ENRON LEARNED IT FROM? THE GOVERNMENT!

This is priceless. It may even be a new sig line.

Poor Midnyte still doesn't understand the conflict of interest inherent in a private medical system. How can patient care be the top priority when by definition, generating shareholder value is the number one responsibility of a corporation?

Yes, the governments top priority will be the level of healthcare you receive. ROFL LMAO Thank you. I needed that. You go ahead and keep believing Capitalism is only evil and isn't 90% good and responsible for so much of our success. Socialism breeds apathy not success, ambition, drive, innovation, etc.

[Spang]

[Zaelath]

Just to be clear, Funk, fire departments started out privatised: http://www.fireservice.co.uk/history/

The Great Fire of London, in 1666, changed things and helped to standardise urban fire fighting. Following a public outcry during the aftermath of probably the most famous fire ever, a property developer named Nicholas Barbon introduced the first kind of insurance against fire. Soon after the formation of this insurance company, and in a bid to help reduce the cost and number of claims, he formed his own Fire Brigade. Other similar companies soon followed his lead and this was how property was protected until the early 1800s. Policy holders were given a badge, or fire mark, to affix to their building. If a fire started, the Fire Brigade was called. They looked for the fire mark and, provided it was the right one, the fire would be dealt with. Often the buildings were left to burn until the right company attended!

[Spang]

Stay classy!

[Tyek]

I find it intriguing that the "liberal" side of this board is consistently denouncing anything that comes out of a Conservative news source as fraudulent and evil, yet will quote their liberal sources as if they have no political agenda and slant.

I have seen the good side of the arguements and the bad and in some small place in between probably lies the truth. This bill will not be the end of us, but it is not going to be the cure either. (I know no one said it was the cure here, but some of your sources think it is.)

[Xatrei]

Midnight: Stop using socialism and go with fascism. Your willful ignorance doesn't change the definition of the words you are using!!!

Obama has US politics all fucked up:
1) Conservatives calling a conservative based plan socialism
2) Liberals (except the far left) celebrating a conservative based plan
3) Republicans campaigning against cuts to Medicare
4) Liberals accepting cuts to Medicare

Up is down and down is up.

And what he has done to Romney is beyond funny. Romney is now a socialist because Obama's plan is a clone of Romney's. So Romney is now attacking his own plan that he was bragging about in 2008, further enforcing the perception that Romney is a total fraud.

This is an excellent description of the current state of affairs.

[Canelek]

I usually skip sources from any news outlet.

Read bill, form opinion, write, submit....


Shit. Edit bad spelling, etc...question my stance, wonder why I bothered, post something else....have drink, post again, repeat myself....drink again...read bill, form opinion, post on wrong thread....
[repeat]

[Soreali]

Stay classy!

I mean come on! The dudes name is Boehner! I cant believe he got elected in the first place... I wouldn't be able to take anything he says seriously.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

Over half a million votes in on MSNBC's poll : http://politics.newsvine.com/_question/ ... d-or-angry


66% are angry that this passed.

[Spang]

Stay classy!

I mean come on! The dudes name is Boehner! I cant believe he got elected in the first place... I wouldn't be able to take anything he says seriously.

Upon further review, I think that's a fake account. He's still a douchebag, though.

[Xatrei]

Over half a million votes in on MSNBC's poll : http://politics.newsvine.com/_question/ ... d-or-angry


66% are angry that this passed.

Oh wow, say it ain't so! A non-scientific poll that can easily be gamed by #tcot or #teaparty Twitter users!?!?! Really? Wow, maybe our representatives should just let web polls drive all of their decisions, right!??! Holy shit, you're a dumb fuck if you think this means anything.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

I guess with every single poll that has been done showing it is unpopular it really must be fixed by the tea baggers.

[*~*stragi*~*]

I usually skip sources from any news outlet.

Read bill, form opinion, write, submit....


Shit. Edit bad spelling, etc...question my stance, wonder why I bothered, post something else....have drink, post again, repeat myself....drink again...read bill, form opinion, post on wrong thread....
[repeat]

i have a better forumula

read nothing past subject line -> type something stupid -> submit -> cackle with glee while sitting naked in a pit full of 2 week old taco bell wrappers.

[*~*stragi*~*]

I guess with every single poll that has been done showing it is unpopular it really must be fixed by the tea baggers.

i don't even understand what it does past forcing people to pay for insurance or get fined which is fucking stupid and doesn't seem to do anything.

[Aabidano]

Poor Midnyte still doesn't understand the conflict of interest inherent in a private medical system. How can patient care be the top priority when by definition, generating shareholder value is the number one responsibility of a corporation?

Once you figure out this part the rest is easy.

[Xatrei]

I guess with every single poll that has been done showing it is unpopular it really must be fixed by the tea baggers.

Not at all, but a scientific poll certainly carries more weight. Sueven has already pointed out that most polling is far closer than you claim. Much of those in the "against" column include a lot of us on the left that are disappointed by the fact that it doesn't go far enough. There's not "OVERWHELMING" opposition as you like to claim. The country is pretty evenly divided, thanks largely to the opposition who has engaged in deceit and fear-mongering at every turn to convince simpletons like you and Midnyte that this market based solution is a socialist takeover.

Those of us on the left are, by and large accepting it as the best we can get for now, with the hope that it will lead to additional, meaningful reforms down the road. Idiots like you are waiting for FEMA agents to sweep in on black helicopters and ship you off to a gulag.

[Spang]

"So the GOP, whose only "idea" for HCR was tort reform, is now going to sue sue sue to kill - wait for it - HCR." - Tina Dupuy

[Tyek]

I guess with every single poll that has been done showing it is unpopular it really must be fixed by the tea baggers.

Not at all, but a scientific poll certainly carries more weight. Sueven has already pointed out that most polling is far closer than you claim. Much of those in the "against" column include a lot of us on the left that are disappointed by the fact that it doesn't go far enough. There's not "OVERWHELMING" opposition as you like to claim. The country is pretty evenly divided, thanks largely to the opposition who has engaged in deceit and fear-mongering at every turn to convince simpletons like you and Midnyte that this market based solution is a socialist takeover.

Those of us on the left are, by and large accepting it as the best we can get for now, with the hope that it will lead to additional, meaningful reforms down the road. Idiots like you are waiting for FEMA agents to sweep in on black helicopters and ship you off to a gulag.

See Xatrei This is what I mean, the assumption that all conservatives are gullable and wrong, while all liberals are intelligent and correct. I find you to be exceedingly intelligent in the few conversations we have had, but to make a broad generalization like that is almost offensive. Some of the most liberal people I have met are also some of the most naive. I also have some very intelligent friends that I would say are fairly conservative, especially to someone with a self admittedly heavy socialist leaning view like yourself. I don't disagree that many in the Republican party are Hayseeds, but I would bet their are a whole lot of them in the Democratic side as well.

[Spang]

Ten minutes of stupid in one YouTube video.

[Tyek]

I coiuld pull up 10 minutes of most Pelosi speech and hear similiar lunacy. Most of your radical extremist environmental groups and vegetarian groups are liberal leaning. What exactly did you prove Spang?

[Spang]

What exactly did you prove Spang?

Nothing. Just posting a video.

[Forthe]

See Xatrei This is what I mean, the assumption that all conservatives are gullable and wrong, while all liberals are intelligent and correct. I find you to be exceedingly intelligent in the few conversations we have had, but to make a broad generalization like that is almost offensive. Some of the most liberal people I have met are also some of the most naive. I also have some very intelligent friends that I would say are fairly conservative, especially to someone with a self admittedly heavy socialist leaning view like yourself. I don't disagree that many in the Republican party are Hayseeds, but I would bet their are a whole lot of them in the Democratic side as well.

Unfortunately I think you are in the (visable at least) minority these days Tyek. A simple test is if a conservative expresses themselves without using this week's Fox catch phrases or Glenn Beck's insanity. It sounds cult like when they all start saying the same thing.

I started this morning on a conf call with Iridium folks down in Tempe, AZ, joking about how they are now communist. I'm pretty sure they are conservative but we had a good laugh at how over the top US politics is (I equate it to a reality show) and how sleep inducing Canadian politics is. Republicans need to display more people like this and less people "wanting their country back".

[Tyek]

What exactly did you prove Spang?

Nothing. Just posting a video.

Ok cool, was just wondering.

[Spang]

Ok cool, was just wondering.

No worries, there's idiots all over the political spectrum. According to some, I'm probably one of them.

[Winnow]

I started this morning on a conf call with Iridium folks down in Tempe, AZ, joking about how they are now communist. I'm pretty sure they are conservative but we had a good laugh at how over the top US politics is (I equate it to a reality show) and how sleep inducing Canadian politics is. Republicans need to display more people like this and less people "wanting their country back".

WTF? Iridium is still going? I left that project 10 years ago. Ever visit the facilities in Tempe? Seemed tiny for the mass of satellites that it controlled.

I was hired on by the follow up Teledesic (broadband low earth orbit satellite constellation) but barely had my boxes packed to move down to Tempe from Scottsdale when that failed. Thank god I kept my job at the Space and Systems Technology Group, later ditching them to move to Semiconductors down in Chandler, right before that too failed. Weeeee. Fuck Motorola! I learned a lot about how not to run a company while working there.

Moving on, if the United States becomes full-on commy, what do you think will happen to Canada and Mexico? Canada, a new state of the United Socialist Republic, would become our Siberia. We'd send all of our political criminals and ugly people there. Mexico would...well Mexico is already fucked up but we might use it as a testing ground for new nuclear devices. How did the Soviets states fair under Russia's rule? Not so good! Do you remember the cheap looking uniforms the Romanians, Ukranians, etc wore at the Olympics?

America works because we kick ass and are free capitalists (we also donate max goodies to third world countries). Our health care system hasn't stopped bad-toothed immigrants from flooding our country, and somehow, a few years later, their teeth don't look as bad. How can that be with our horrid health care system?

[Xatrei]

I guess with every single poll that has been done showing it is unpopular it really must be fixed by the tea baggers.

Not at all, but a scientific poll certainly carries more weight. Sueven has already pointed out that most polling is far closer than you claim. Much of those in the "against" column include a lot of us on the left that are disappointed by the fact that it doesn't go far enough. There's not "OVERWHELMING" opposition as you like to claim. The country is pretty evenly divided, thanks largely to the opposition who has engaged in deceit and fear-mongering at every turn to convince simpletons like you and Midnyte that this market based solution is a socialist takeover.

Those of us on the left are, by and large accepting it as the best we can get for now, with the hope that it will lead to additional, meaningful reforms down the road. Idiots like you are waiting for FEMA agents to sweep in on black helicopters and ship you off to a gulag.

See Xatrei This is what I mean, the assumption that all conservatives are gullable and wrong, while all liberals are intelligent and correct. I find you to be exceedingly intelligent in the few conversations we have had, but to make a broad generalization like that is almost offensive. Some of the most liberal people I have met are also some of the most naive. I also have some very intelligent friends that I would say are fairly conservative, especially to someone with a self admittedly heavy socialist leaning view like yourself. I don't disagree that many in the Republican party are Hayseeds, but I would bet their are a whole lot of them in the Democratic side as well.

Sorry, Tyek, but I think you're the one making the assumptions here. I was speaking specifically about a group of those on the right who are professing a particularly extremist point of view, of which Kilmoll and Midnyte are perfect examples. I wasn't talking about all, or even most of those on the other side of this argument. You'll note that I didn't mention you in my post describing those people because, as I hope some of our previous interactions may indicate, I don't count you among that group. You have always presented a reasonable perspective born of principle and rationality, not emotional, knee-jerk raving. I don't know that you're in the minority as Forthe contends, but your voice, and that of those like you, is most certainly being drowned out by the ranting extremists. Over the years, I've had many of friends, family members and work colleagues that are conservatives and would fall into the same category as you. So do countless people whose thoughtful, reasoned principles place them on the opposite side of many issues as myself. I don't think they're crazed, moronic, evil or anything else. I can completely respect them and their point of view without agreeing with it. I do however have a giant issue with those that peddle lies and fear, and with those who, like Kilmoll or Midnyte simply spew irrational, reactionary crap.

As I said to a RL friend of mine in a conversation earlier today, there are countless legitimate issues over which people of differing ideological principles can have a healthy, reasoned and honest disagreement/debate. They can even agree to disagree. It's just the over-the-top wingnut jackassery that gets a hostile reception from me.

[Forthe]

WTF? Iridium is still going??

Nope haven't been down there yet. I think Iridium is the same company in name and network only. They seem like a good bunch if a bit overworked\understaffed. I'm in a bit of a weird spot, most of my work is with Iridium systems but I work at a subsidary of Inmarsat.

Moving on, if the United States becomes full-on commy, what do you think will happen to Canada and Mexico? Canada, a new state of the United Socialist Republic, would become our Siberia. We'd send all of our political criminals and ugly people there. Mexico would...well Mexico is already fucked up but we might use it as a testing ground for new nuclear devices. How did the Soviets states fair under Russia's rule? Not so good! Do you remember the cheap looking uniforms the Romanians, Ukranians, etc wore at the Olympics?

America works because we kick ass and are free capitalists (we also donate max goodies to third world countries). Our health care system hasn't stopped bad-toothed immigrants from flooding our country, and somehow, a few years later, their teeth don't look as bad. How can that be with our horrid health care system?

Drama queen. Stalin won't rise from the dead if you socialize health insurance. You just won't think about healthcare\health insurance much anymore unless you are sick. We only talk about it here when we see Usadians going crazy about it.

If you are still scared that the learnings of Mao Zedong would take over your country you could be smarter than shouting commie and spitting on people. http://www.frumforum.com/25718 is constructive, of course he is just reiterating the original Heritage plan's selling points.

Either way your system now is crap, you need to be seriously rich to be beyond bankruptcy risk due to rescission+pre-existing condition practices.

You are going to have to send your polical prisoners way up north, we've gotten no snow this year, a storm in early december and another in early febuary was the extent of our winter. A couple of dudes killed themselves the past weekend snowmobiling, or trying to at least, with no snow. Yes, we have our dumbfuck rednecks here as well.

[Tyek]

I guess with every single poll that has been done showing it is unpopular it really must be fixed by the tea baggers.

Not at all, but a scientific poll certainly carries more weight. Sueven has already pointed out that most polling is far closer than you claim. Much of those in the "against" column include a lot of us on the left that are disappointed by the fact that it doesn't go far enough. There's not "OVERWHELMING" opposition as you like to claim. The country is pretty evenly divided, thanks largely to the opposition who has engaged in deceit and fear-mongering at every turn to convince simpletons like you and Midnyte that this market based solution is a socialist takeover.

Those of us on the left are, by and large accepting it as the best we can get for now, with the hope that it will lead to additional, meaningful reforms down the road. Idiots like you are waiting for FEMA agents to sweep in on black helicopters and ship you off to a gulag.

See Xatrei This is what I mean, the assumption that all conservatives are gullable and wrong, while all liberals are intelligent and correct. I find you to be exceedingly intelligent in the few conversations we have had, but to make a broad generalization like that is almost offensive. Some of the most liberal people I have met are also some of the most naive. I also have some very intelligent friends that I would say are fairly conservative, especially to someone with a self admittedly heavy socialist leaning view like yourself. I don't disagree that many in the Republican party are Hayseeds, but I would bet their are a whole lot of them in the Democratic side as well.

Sorry, Tyek, but I think you're the one making the assumptions here. I was speaking specifically about a group of those on the right who are professing a particularly extremist point of view, of which Kilmoll and Midnyte are perfect examples. I wasn't talking about all, or even most of those on the other side of this argument. You'll note that I didn't mention you in my post describing those people because, as I hope some of our previous interactions may indicate, I don't count you among that group. You have always presented a reasonable perspective born of principle and rationality, not emotional, knee-jerk raving. I don't know that you're in the minority as Forthe contends, but your voice, and that of those like you, is most certainly being drowned out by the ranting extremists. Over the years, I've had many of friends, family members and work colleagues that are conservatives and would fall into the same category as you. So do countless people whose thoughtful, reasoned principles place them on the opposite side of many issues as myself. I don't think they're crazed, moronic, evil or anything else. I can completely respect them and their point of view without agreeing with it. I do however have a giant issue with those that peddle lies and fear, and with those who, like Kilmoll or Midnyte simply spew irrational, reactionary crap.

As I said to a RL friend of mine in a conversation earlier today, there are countless legitimate issues over which people of differing ideological principles can have a healthy, reasoned and honest disagreement/debate. They can even agree to disagree. It's just the over-the-top wingnut jackassery that gets a hostile reception from me.

Posting on Vicodan and Lyrica should be illegal

Sorry I was reading it as all Republicans instead of a select few extremists. See I was being a jerk to you and Spang today on accident. Sorry, This damn pain is getting to me. My doctor even called my wife today to make sure I was not walking in the boot or she was going to call me in to get the cast.

[Xatrei]

Posting on Vicodan and Lyrica should be illegal

Sorry I was reading it as all Republicans instead of a select few extremists. See I was being a jerk to you and Spang today on accident. Sorry, This damn pain is getting to me. My doctor even called my wife today to make sure I was not walking in the boot or she was going to call me in to get the cast.

Don't sweat it, friend. I took no offense. I could probably stand to be more clear about precisely who I'm directing my hostilities towards at times. In my haste to respond to some of these posts, I probably sacrifice a little clarity in that regard. I do hope the knees, ankles and feet are getting better soon, at least as good as they can get from the shape they're in. I know that it must really suck to be in pain all the time like that.

[Funkmasterr]

Just to be clear, Funk, fire departments started out privatised: http://www.fireservice.co.uk/history/

The Great Fire of London, in 1666, changed things and helped to standardise urban fire fighting. Following a public outcry during the aftermath of probably the most famous fire ever, a property developer named Nicholas Barbon introduced the first kind of insurance against fire. Soon after the formation of this insurance company, and in a bid to help reduce the cost and number of claims, he formed his own Fire Brigade. Other similar companies soon followed his lead and this was how property was protected until the early 1800s. Policy holders were given a badge, or fire mark, to affix to their building. If a fire started, the Fire Brigade was called. They looked for the fire mark and, provided it was the right one, the fire would be dealt with. Often the buildings were left to burn until the right company attended!

I stand corrected, sir.

[Tyek]

Posting on Vicodan and Lyrica should be illegal

Sorry I was reading it as all Republicans instead of a select few extremists. See I was being a jerk to you and Spang today on accident. Sorry, This damn pain is getting to me. My doctor even called my wife today to make sure I was not walking in the boot or she was going to call me in to get the cast.

Don't sweat it, friend. I took no offense. I could probably stand to be more clear about precisely who I'm directing my hostilities towards at times. In my haste to respond to some of these posts, I probably sacrifice a little clarity in that regard. I do hope the knees, ankles and feet are getting better soon, at least as good as they can get from the shape they're in. I know that it must really suck to be in pain all the time like that.

Even better, I gave myself a concussion on Sunday. I think I am going to live in a bubble!

[Canelek]

At least wear a helmet!

[Tyek]

Then I will fit the image most of this board has of Republicans! No Way!

[Zaelath]

Then I will fit the image most of this board has of Republicans! No Way!

Only if it was one of these helmets:

[vn_Tanc]

I knew this thread would deliver. Thanks all

Congrats USA. I look forward to coming back to this thread in 5 years when we pore over the burning wreckage of your once great nation!

[Forthe]

I just hope we can prevent this communist ideology from spreading over the border.

I heard they have made abortions mandatory for everyone (even guys), started forming death panels to exterminate all grandmothers and FEMA is rounding up conservatives into camps as test subjects for new enhanced interogation techniques. All before the bill has even been signed!!!

[Neroon]

Studies show that this bill is going to have our debt at 90% of our GDP by the end of the decade. It was at 53% when Bush left office. Of course, the only possible way to get that to trend down will be massive tax increases. It is good to know that this clown's administration is going to far surpass Bush's in its ineptness and only further reinforce that the checks and balances in this country need to be stronger. We can never have full control of both houses and the president under one party again.

Just a nit-pick. It was 53% when Bush came *in* to office, 69% when he left. Doesn't change the fact that we are still fucked at 83% now, and will be more fucked at 90%. The info is on the white house budget site, don't have the link handy atm.

[Winnow]

You are going to have to send your polical prisoners way up north, we've gotten no snow this year, a storm in early december and another in early febuary was the extent of our winter. A couple of dudes killed themselves the past weekend snowmobiling, or trying to at least, with no snow. Yes, we have our dumbfuck rednecks here as well.

As a Newf, you're sitting on prime target #1 of Mother Amerika...those oil fields look tempting! If you play your cards right, you could become one of a few favored informants, receiving extra rations or Vodk...er Bud Light. All you would have to do is rat out your fellow newfs that are hiding the non approved beer!

[Canelek]

Bribing a public official violates most international corporation's ethics regulations.

[miir]

Regarding what Sueven posted about Mitt Romney.
I just did a few searches on his plan for health care reform in Massachusetts.

Uhhh.. it's basically the EXACT SAME FUCKING THING as the Obama plan that the right are calling socialist.

It doesn't seem to have the provisions against denying coverage for 'pre existing conditions' and had nothing regarding the removal of lifetime and yearly coverage 'caps'.

Seriously, look at this.

Commonwealth Care Health Insurance Program

Commonwealth Care is one of the newest subsidized health insurance programs offered by the Commonwealth, and is a key part of Health Care Reform in Massachusetts. It is designed primarily for income-eligible Massachusetts adult residents who are not otherwise eligible for MassHealth, who either do not work or who work for employers that do not offer health insurance. Specifically, it allows eligible residents access to certain subsidized private insurance health plans – currently a choice of five plans – for individuals without health insurance who make below 300% of the federal poverty level.[25] There are no deductibles. For individuals below 150% of the federal poverty level, no premiums will be charged; for those below the poverty level, dental insurance is also provided. For those above 150% of the federal poverty level, a sliding scale premium schedule based on income is used to determine the amount of money a person contributes to their policy.[25] Commonwealth Care for those below poverty has been available through the Connector since October 1, 2006. Plans for those between 100% and 300% of the poverty line have been available since January 1, 2007. As of Dec. 1, 2007, over 158,000 people have enrolled in Commonwealth Care. The five Massachusetts health plans currently contracted with the state to serve the Commonwealth Care population include: Boston Medical Center HealthNet Plan, CeltiCare, Fallon Community Health Plan, Neighborhood Health Plan, and Network Health.


Employer taxes

Employers with more than ten employees must provide a "fair and reasonable contribution" to the premium of health insurance for employees.[29] Employers who do not will be assessed an annual fair share contribution that will not exceed $295 per employee per year.[29] The fair share contribution will be paid into the Commonwealth Care Trust Fund to fund Commonwealth Care and other health reform programs.[25] The Division of Health Care Finance and Policy defined by regulation what contribution level meets the "fair and reasonable" test in the statute. The regulation imposes two tests. First, employers are deemed to have offered "fair and reasonable" coverage if at least 25% of their full-time workers are enrolled in the firm's health plan. Alternatively, a company meets the standard if it offers to pay at least 33% of the premium cost of an individual health plan.

There is an additional Free Rider Surcharge that can be assessed to the employer.[30] This surcharge is different from the fair share contribution. The surcharge is applied when an employer does not arrange for a pre-tax payroll deduction system for health insurance, and has employees who receive care that is paid from the uncompensated care pool, renamed in October 2007 as the Health Safety Net.[26] If an employee receives free care more than three times or all of an employer's employees use free care a total of five times, then the employer must pay a portion of the health care costs.[26]



Individual taxes

Residents of Massachusetts must have health insurance coverage under Chapter 58.[31] Residents must indicate on their tax forms if they had insurance on December 31 of that tax year, had a waiver for religious reasons, or had a waiver from the Connector. The Connector waiver can be obtained if the resident demonstrates that there is no available coverage that is defined by the Connector as affordable.[25] In March 2007, the Connector adopted an affordability schedule that allows residents to seek a waiver. If a resident does not have coverage and does not have a waiver, the Department of Revenue will enforce the insurance requirement by imposing a penalty. In 2007, the penalty was the loss of the personal exemption. Beginning in 2008, the penalty will be up to half the cost of the lowest available yearly premium which will be enforced as an assessed addition to the individual's income tax, up to $912 a year.[32]

Young adult coverage

Starting January 1, 2007, insurers' family coverage plans are required to cover young adults up to age 25 or for up to two years past the young adult's loss of dependent status. Beginning in July 2007, the Connector offers reduced benefit plans for young adults up to age 26 who do not have access to employer-based coverage.[33]

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/ta ... PKPP8l0j_A

Washington (CNN) – For the first time, a CNN poll has found that a majority of Americans disapprove of President Obama's job performance.

According to a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll released Monday, 51 percent of respondents disapprove of Obama's job performance and 46 percent approve of it.

Full results (pdf)

Obama's approval rating has dropped steadily each month since December, when it was 54 percent. His highest approval rating in a CNN poll was 76 percent in February 2009 shortly after he took office.

[Funkmasterr]

Between the retardation in this thread and the ridiculous amount of stupid fucking facebook updates the last two days, I'm about ready to quit looking at anything on the internet for a few more days. It's hard for me to say for sure whether the updates from stupid fucking liberals or dumb redneck conservatives are worse.

[miir]

And Bush's approval numbers were through the fucking roof... 92% at one point.
What's your point?

[Canelek]

Timeline:

(CNN) -- President Obama signed sweeping health care reform into law today. The Senate must now pass a package of changes that will reconcile the differences between Senate and House bills. If those changes are worked out, here is how health care reforms will affect you:

Within the first year

• Young adults will be able stay on their parents' insurance until their 27th birthday.

• Seniors will get a $250 rebate to help fill the "doughnut hole" in Medicare prescription drug coverage, which falls between the $2,700 initial limit and when catastrophic coverage kicks in at $6,154.

• Insurers will be barred from imposing exclusions on children with pre-existing conditions. Pools will cover those with pre-existing health conditions until health care coverage exchanges are operational.

• Insurers will not be able to rescind policies to avoid paying medical bills when a person becomes ill.

• Lifetime limits on benefits and restrictive annual limits will be prohibited.

• New plans must provide coverage for preventive services without co-pays. All plans must comply by 2018.

• A temporary reinsurance program will help offset costs of coverage for companies that provide early retiree health benefits for those ages 55 to 64.

• New plans will be required to implement an appeals process for coverage determinations and claims.

• Adoption tax credit and assistance exclusion will increase by $1,000. The bill makes the credit refundable and extends it through 2011.

• A 10 percent tax will be imposed on amounts paid for indoor tanning services on or after July 1.

• Businesses with fewer than 50 employees will get tax credits covering 35 percent of their health care premiums, increasing to 50 percent by 2014.

2011

• Medicare will provide free annual wellness visits and personalized prevention plans. New plans will be required to cover preventive services with no co-pay.

• States can offer home- and community-based services to the disabled through Medicaid rather than institutional care beginning October 1.

• A 50 percent discount will be provided on brand-name drugs for Prescription Drug Plan or Medicare Advantage enrollees. Additional discounts on brand-name and generic drugs will be phased in to completely close the "doughnut hole" by 2020.

• Additional tax for health savings account withdrawals before age 65 for nonqualified medical expenses will increase from 10 percent to 20 percent. Additional tax for Archer medical savings account withdrawals not used for qualified medical expenses will increase from 15 percent to 20 percent.

• A plan to provide a vehicle for small businesses to offer tax-free benefits will be created. This would ease the small employer's administrative burden of sponsoring a cafeteria plan.

• The Medicare payroll tax will increase from 1.45 percent to 2.35 percent for individuals earning more than $200,000 and married filing jointly above $250,000.

2013

• Health plans must implement uniform standards for electronic exchange of health information to reduce paperwork and administrative costs.

• Contributions to flexible savings accounts will be limited to $2,500 per year, indexed by the Consumer Price Index in subsequent years.

• The Employer Medicare Part D subsidy deduction will be eliminated. Employers will lose the tax deduction for subsidizing prescription drug plans for Medicare Part D-eligible retirees.

• There will be increases to the income threshold from 7.5 percent to 10 percent of adjusted gross income. Those older than 65 can claim the 7.5 percent deduction through 2016.

• The hospital insurance tax will increase 0.9 percentage points for those earning more than $200,000 ($250,000 for married filing jointly), and it includes net investment income.

• A 2.9 percent excise tax on the first sale of medical devices will be established. Excepted are eyeglasses, contact lenses, hearing aids or other items for individual use.

2014

• Citizens will be required to have acceptable coverage or pay a penalty of $95 in 2014, $325 in 2015, $695 (or up to 2.5 percent of income) in 2016. Families will pay half the amount for children, up to a cap of $2,250 per family. After 2016, penalties are indexed to Consumer Price Index.

• Workers who are exempt from individual responsibility for coverage but don't qualify for tax credits can take their employer contribution and join an exchange plan.

• Companies with 50 or more employees must offer coverage to employees or pay a $2,000 penalty per employee after their first 30 if at least one of their employees receives a tax credit. Waiting periods before insurance takes effect is limited to 90 days. Employers who offer coverage but whose employees receive tax credits will pay $3,000 for each worker receiving a tax credit.

• Insurers can no longer refuse to sell or renew policies because of an individual's health status. Health plans can no longer exclude coverage for pre-existing conditions. Insurers can't charge higher rates because of heath status, gender or other factors.

• Health plans will be prohibited from imposing annual limits on coverage.

• Health insurance exchanges will open in each state to individuals and small employers to comparison shop for standardized health packages.

• Credits will be available through exchanges for those whose income is above Medicaid eligibility and below 400 percent of poverty level who are not eligible for or offered other acceptable coverage.

• Medicaid eligibility will increase to 133 percent of poverty for all nonelderly individuals to ensure that people obtain affordable health care in the most efficient and appropriate manner. States will receive increased federal funding to cover these new populations.

• An annual health insurance provider fee will be Imposed across the health insurance sector according to insurers' market share to companies whose total premiums exceed $25 million.

2018

• 2018 Taxing "Cadillac" plans: An excise tax will be imposed on high-cost, employer-provided health plans beyond $27,500 for family coverage and $10,200 for single coverage; it will increase to $30,950 for families and $11,850 for individuals, retirees and employees in high-risk professions.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

I am going to cancel my health care. As it stands now, I will be able to not carry and pay any health care at all and save $2000 a year. If I get sick with something that will incur major medical bills, then I sign up for insurance that cannot be denied me.

I wonder how long until everyone realizes this and no one is signed up for health care until they need it?

[Funkmasterr]

I am going to cancel my health care. As it stands now, I will be able to not carry and pay any health care at all and save $2000 a year. If I get sick with something that will incur major medical bills, then I sign up for insurance that cannot be denied me.

I wonder how long until everyone realizes this and no one is signed up for health care until they need it?

Unless you are someone like me who has ~$1000 in prescriptions a month that you'd have to pay for out of pocket, or my mom who would have like $3k.

But yeah if I didn't go to the doctor often and didn't have prescriptions I'd probably do the same.

Q: Does the plan require employers to offer coverage to their workers? And what about individuals? Does everybody have to have insurance? Can Congress do that under the Constitution?

A: Employers aren't required to offer coverage, but companies with more than 50 workers could be hit with hefty fines if just one of their employees gets government-subsidized coverage. (The plan provides tax credits to help smaller companies get and keep coverage for their employees.)

Individuals would be required to carry health insurance, either through an employer or a government program or by buying it themselves. Those who refuse would get fined by the IRS.

Many legal experts say Congress does have the power under the Constitution to require coverage. But that issue is likely to be settled in court.

This gets me. I can see people doing this and getting fired.. Like, you get a crappy raise for the year so you drop coverage and get government health care. haha.

[Animalor]

From opposing the system to abusing it in 2 pages.

[miir]

From opposing the system to abusing it in 2 pages.

It's the american way!

[Funkmasterr]

From opposing the system to abusing it in 2 pages.

It's the american way!

Shut your filthy socialist canadian commie mouth!