Palin in 2012!

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

Yes.

[miir]

Yes.

[Sueven]

Well, if "centrist" means something along the lines of "a shared position between democrats and republicans," then yes, they are. Also, if it means something like "in principle, something which is considered occasionally necessary by almost all policy experts," then yes. I understand that you reject all of this; if "centrist" means "a middle ground between Kilmoll's view and the views of those who think that bailouts are sometimes wise," well then no, it is not centrist.

[vn_Tanc]

Big government is bad

I don't subscribe to this dogma. I'd rather have a big government fighting for me than a big corporation running things however they see fit.

Big or small, the government obviously needs keeping in line by the people it serves. Too little of this is going on in too many countries for my tastes right now.

[Zaelath]

Yeah, it's funny how the same people crying about the government bailing out the market still believes the market has some magical ability to be the repository of all wisdom and their best caretaker. Tempting as it might be to believe that fairy tale, they've left the market to it's own devices in similar circumstances before; the Great Depression.

None of these sages are old enough to have lived it, but you'd think one of two of the twats could fucking read.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

It is sad to say, but at some point you have to let the place crash and burn. Bailing out negligent companies is not going to hurt anything bad enough to hit bottom and scratch and claw out. It has to happen at some point and they are just delaying what WILL happen. It is the only thing that will fix a system where the CEO's of companies that are losing money can be rewarded with multimillion dollar bonuses. The only other thing you can do is to hold those people financially and criminally responsible for negligence and failure to correctly report information in publicly traded companies.

[Fairweather Pure]

It is sad to say, but at some point you have to let the place crash and burn.

Not if it takes the entire country with it, which was what America was facing and why our government did what it did. There is a reason it was an unprecedented decision. America has never had as much to lose as we did last year. Allowing those businesses to fail would've been the dominos that led to worldwide financial chaos. Simply saying "Fuck it, let em burn", belies a woefull level of ignorance, not to mention a severe lack of empathy for the millions upon millions of Americans that would be 100% fucked right now. It would've been another Great Depression, and anyone that knows anything about the Great Depression knows that we should avoid that scenerio at all costs.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

All it is doing is delaying the inevitable. There will be another depression. Things simply cannot keep going at the rate they are without everything completely crashing to the bottom and then rebuilding. In my opinion, I would rather the worldwide system collapse than just have the US system collapse.....which would leave us in a very weak position.

Why would you reward companies that mismanaged themselves? Ford did not ask for a bailout and their business has picked up where other companies have lost sales. There will always be someone in a capitalist society to fill a need.

[miir]

Ford did not ask for a bailout and their business has picked up where other companies have lost sales.

Really?

http://www.theolympian.com/business/story/1124389.html

General Motors Co. on Tuesday said its sales rose 14 percent to 146,825, a total that includes several brands the company has discontinued or is selling off. Sales of its core Chevrolet, Buick, GMC and Cadillac nameplates rose 30 percent to 145,098 vehicles.

[Aabidano]

All it is doing is delaying the inevitable. There will be another depression. Things simply cannot keep going at the rate they are without everything completely crashing to the bottom and then rebuilding.

With proper regulation it's quite avoidable. Completely avoidable even. Does not have to happen

The regulations put in place in the 30s were needed badly. Dismantling them to allow greater profits in the 80s and 90s are what caused the issue. Not regulating the markets properly will let it happen again.

The people who might take advantage of it may be smart enough not to have all their eggs in our basket next time. Then they would be in a position to take advantage.

Of course the finance sector is pumping millions into Washington right now trying to avoid that, as it impacts the bottom line and might make them responsible if they do something so blatantly stupid again.

Late in the Clinton administration and all through the Bush admin they were shooting the messengers of the apocalypse, the meltdown was well known to be on its way.

Edit - The last one was avoidable - They chose not to avoid it. The people who caused it aren't out anything, and many appear to have profited handsomely from it.

[Sueven]

I think that Aab and Fair are basically correct on this one.

Kilmoll:

We had two options: Go into a complete worldwide meltdown now, or use bailouts to forestall widespread misery and to give us time to try to fix the structural problems that lead us into possible-meltdown situations.

It doesn't sound like you disagree that those were the options we faced. You simply think that the latter half of option two-- fixing the problems that cause meltdowns-- is impossible, and that a major worldwide meltdown is inevitable. Further, you would rather have the meltdown now than later, because you'd rather get it over with now, you view bailouts as rewarding those who don't deserve rewards, and you foresee the United States emerging with greater relative strength from this worldwide meltdown than a hypothetical future worldwide meltdown.

Putting aside the actual factual merits of your position, you have to understand that you're advocating sacrificing any hope of salvaging the basic structure of the worldwide economic system, thereby causing widespread human misery and suffering in the United States and elsewhere. Some of this misery would be felt by those who are morally responsible for causing the meltdown, but the vast majority would be felt by innocents. And your justification for this position is a combination of "you can't reward irresponsibility" and nationalism.

I've defended your relative moderate status in the recent past based on the politicians you support, which I still think is fair, but this is a WILDLY extremist position. Deriding the policy choices of our government as in no way "centrist," while holding out your position as an alternative, strikes me as a little surreal. We have always been at war with Eastasia.

[Xatrei]

I've defended your relative moderate status in the recent past based on the politicians you support, which I still think is fair, but this is a WILDLY extremist position. Deriding the policy choices of our government as in no way "centrist," while holding out your position as an alternative, strikes me as a little surreal. We have always been at war with Eastasia.

His views, when you take the time to actually examine the positions he takes on issues rather than listening to his claims of centrism and the pragmatic choices he claims to make with regards to those seeking public office have always been far-right extremist, regardless of his pitiful cries of "no, I'm a moderate!" Most of his "moderate" positions stem from his inherent libertarian tendencies, and it is on those few, and generally unimportant, issues that we can sometimes find agreement. I'm nowhere close to the mainstream "left" in this country, but I tend to support electable, Democratic politicians as a matter of pragmatism. A hard-line democratic socialist in the flavor of Marx/Engels has no chance in this country (and even if he did, he would be made useless by our system of governance), so it's a waste for me to put any energy into their efforts. I supported (and continue to support) Barack Obama for that very reason, not because his relatively moderate platform appeals to me. That doesn't make me a moderate Democrat, and the fact the Kilmoll has supported generally electable Republicans (i.e. moderates) doesn't make him one either.

[Sueven]

That's fair to say, although I think you may be understating the issues on which he's actually moderate (not by much). Nevertheless, I do think it's important that he is (for instance) opposed to Sarah Palin and (for instance) supportive of Ted Strickland. Although it's a little odd that Strickland is the only politician I can think of that Kilmoll actually DOES support.

If you vote against Sarah Palin and for Ted Strickland, your overall effect on American politics is fairly moderate. Although that is different than "being" a moderate.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

There are not a lot of politicians that are there doing what is really right for the country. One reason I list Strickland as one that I do support is that he does have a lot of political leanings that fall in line with mine. He also came in and began eliminating wastefull government spending, which is one thing that will garner my support quickly. I can tolerate a lot of other crap if they align with my views on that and are not anti-gun. There are probably more out there that I do not research all that much on simply because they are not in my state. Hell, Evan Bayh may well make my list if he opposes Obama in 2012.

[vn_Tanc]

Idealogically I agree with Kilmoll on this one: let the fuckers burn. Unfortunately I think it's just not possible as it would have broken our countries down too far. Never mind the social damage, the problems such an occurrence would cause for national security would likely have been pretty serious.

That said, certainly in the UK, we seem to have hocked ourselves for about a billion years in return for "more of the same". Screw that bullshit. It's time for our governments to claim back some of the power they've given away to the markets over the last 35 years and just as importantly it's time for the people to wake the fuck up and keep the governments in check. I'm not talking about 1940s style socialist command economies. We've tried that and it didn't work. We've tried the opposite end of the spectrum in laissez-faire reaganomics as well. Time for something new. Something pragmatic, something fairer, and with a greater component of stewardship to displace the vacuous consumerism that's failing us all so badly.

[Kwonryu DragonFist]

Palin VS Seth McFarlane VS Down Girl etc

http://tv.gawker.com/5476160/seth-macfa ... -real-time

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/1 ... 68331.html

[Aslanna]

Sarah Palin is a fucking retard.

[Leonaerd]

My mother did not carry me around under her arm like a loaf of French bread the way former Governor Palin carries her son Trig around looking for sympathy and votes.

burn! bitch

[Winnow]

On topic:

Rep. Ron Paul surprise winner of CPAC presidential straw poll

February 20, 2010 7:50 p.m. EST

(CNN) -- U.S. Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, a stalwart foe of government spending, won a blowout victory Saturday in the annual Conservative Political Action Conference presidential straw poll.

With participants naming "reducing the size of federal government" as their top issue, the 74-year old libertarian hero captured 31 percent of the 2,400 votes cast in the annual contest, usually seen as a barometer of how the GOP's conservative wing regards their potential presidential candidates.

Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney finished second with 22 percent of the vote, ending a three-year winning streak at CPAC. Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin finished third with 7 percent of the vote, followed by Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty at 6 percent and Indiana Rep. Mike Pence at 5 percent.

They were followed by former House Speaker Newt Gingrich and former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, who tied at 4 percent. Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels, former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum, South Dakota Sen. John Thune and Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour rounded out the results.

Five percent of participants voted for "Other" and 6 percent was undecided.

The announcement of Paul's win, a surprise victory unlikely to have a major impact on the 2012 presidential contest, drew a volley of loud boos from the CPAC audience.

That discontent could be seen in the poll results: A majority of participants said they wished the Republican Party had a better field of candidates to choose from.

But Paul's victory might be seen, in part, as a result of his support among anti-establishment Tea Party activists -- who turned out in force at this year's conference and expressed some frustration with the Republican Party.

Reflecting the college atmosphere of the annual event, young people dominated the voting: 54 percent of participants were between the ages of 18 and 25.

The poll also contained a bit of bad news for Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele, who made an under-the-radar appearance at CPAC late Friday.

Follow on Twitter: http://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/cpac

Participants were asked to rate their opinions of several top political figures, including Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and House Minority Leader John Boehner, both of whom received a majority favorable rating.

But Steele was the only Republican to garner an upside-down rating, with 44 percent giving him an unfavorable rating and 42 percent rating him favorably.

The three-day meeting Saturday that has featured speeches by Republican leaders, training sessions for local political activists and a renewed purpose to stand firm behind their principles heading into the midterm elections.

[Canelek]

Latest Sarah Palin Speech Opens Sixth Seal

IDAHO FALLS, ID—Speaking unto an audience of anti-immigration advocates, global-warming deniers, and members of the Tea Party Nation, former Alaska governor and vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin gave forth utterances Monday that reportedly opened the sixth seal of the Book of the Apocalypse.

"Wow, it's good to be here, just shootin' the breeze with a bunch of real, hardworking Americans who love their freedom," said Palin, her words echoing across the Idaho Falls Civic Auditorium as mighty tremors caused great unrest beneath the land and the sea. "So are the little guys like you and me gonna fight these Washington insiders with their big government agenda? You betcha we are!"

And lo, there was then a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair; and the moon became as blood; and "gosh" was spoken repeatedly; and the stars of heaven fell upon the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken by a mighty wind.

Enlarge Image
And the 10th mention of "small town folk" brought forth a great belching chasm of death and dust.
These disturbances reportedly went unnoticed by the audience, however, as their thunderous applause drowned out the sound of the foretold cataclysm.

"This Tea Party movement just goes to show ya that America is ready for another revolution," Palin said as things long ago divined came finally to pass. "Who do you think is gonna stand up for the freedoms promised by our Founding Fathers? Folks like us, or some socialist professor of constitutional law in the Oval Office?"

It was then, witnesses claim, that there was a tearing of the heavens, and the skies receded as does a scroll when it is rolled up, and anecdotes about everyday middle-class Alaskan families were enunciated in down-to-earth tones.

"That's right, partner," Palin said, as every mountain and island moved from its place, and flames overtook the lakes and the rivers and the seas. "Thanks, but no thanks."

According to biblical scholars, the opening of the seven seals described in the Book of Revelation will usher in the End Times, the Tribulation, the reign of the Antichrist, and the eventual salvation of the 144,000 chosen few. It is thought that the sixth seal's opening will bring about the full fury of God, leading ultimately to the Day of Wrath.

"Admittedly, this is not what we were expecting," said Robert Harwood, a doctor of divinity at the University of Cambridge. "The Bible speaks of a beast with seven horns and seven eyes, not a raven-haired woman from the north who knows not what foolishness she speaks of."

"Still, there's no denying it," Harwood added. "The End of Days is upon us."

One member of the crowd not torn apart by swarming harpies told reporters he feared living in a country where his daughters would grow up speaking Spanish and not be allowed to carry handguns.

"Palin for president!" Bill Coleman, 37, of Topeka, KS chanted, and the stench of flesh rotting in the belly of Satan rose up, and the stench of death rose up. "Sarah Palin for president!"

"Small town folks—the folks who grow our food, run our small businesses, and teach our kids—are getting pretty riled up by President Obama's big socialist ideas," Palin spoke as the stage upon which she stood was rent apart by an unseen hand, opening as unto a great chasm, whose gaping void she narrowly escaped by clinging to the podium.

"Uh…how's that hopey-changey stuff workin' out for ya?" Palin added.

Chaos and disorder then spread across hill and valley to every corner of the earth, eyewitnesses reported, and as the minions of the Antichrist prepared for their millennium of world dominion, even the teeming masses of heathens could not in their hearts deny that the final phase of Armageddon was close at hand, and that you're darn right Joe Six-Pack pays too many taxes already.

The Antichrist, whose true identity remained unknown as of press time, will reportedly come to torment the sinners of humanity as soon as the seventh and last remaining seal is opened.

"I'm so happy that we've got the liberal left running scared," Palin concluded. "Because whatever the TV pundits might want you to think, from where I'm standing, the future looks really good."

[miir]

What a tool.
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/artic ... -in-canada

we used to hustle on over the border for health care that we would receive in Whitehorse. I remember my brother, he burned his ankle in some little kid accident thing, and my parents had to put him on a train and rush him over to Whitehorse and I think, isn’t that kind of ironic now. Zooming over the border, getting health care from Canada.

[Aslanna]

Why can't she talk like a grownup?

“Sarah Palin Supports Government-Run Health Care, Inadvertently Uses ‘Ironic’ Correctly.”

That's seriously like... The best headline ever.

[Xyun]