California Votes No Tax Increase

[Fenna]

California had a referendum vote yesterday to address the near 100 billion dollar budget deficite, and from what I've read it was a majority "no" on increasing taxes. The same voters have voted to increase social programs and government regulations (i.e. staffing, committees, etc.) for two decades now. Where is the money supposed to come from?

The trend appears to be a constant influx of immigrants and social dependents (i.e. those who take from the system) and an out flow of businesses and tax payers (i.e. those that pay for the system). The imbalance is now critical, and it's going to be very interesting to see how this all shakes out.

It's facinating to me. I think this drama in California is going to be played out across the nation in the next few months and years.

[Gzette]

I don't understand it either. I'm guessing they might change their tune when their highways start crumbling.

My impression of California was sealed about 6 years ago when I was visiting family in San Diego. At the time I was struggling with working my way through college. I arrive in San Diego and find that grocery store clerks are on strike, demanding higher wages and better benefits. after watching a few news broadcasts it turns out these people already made upwards of $12 and hour and got full health benefits, paid vacations, etc etc. I know college graduates making less than that in TX. It made me incensed at the time, but now you can see how that state is fucking itself.

And I don't really care, beyond a raised eyebrow every now and then.

[Jice Virago]

Well, two things:

California in general is an over inflated economy manned by a bunch of selfish fucks who all moved here from somewhere else. No one wants to do anything that does not directly bennefit themselves, at least in SoCal. The people who have no kids, as an example, want to gut the school system for money while bitching out of the other side of their mouths how every service industry in this state is manned by ignorant white people ordering around foreign brown people. The level of self entitlement and complete lack of personal responsibity of the average person living here still apalls me a full eight years after moving here from Wisconsin. This state got raped by fires last year because they gutted basic services, like fire control and ranger stations, to the point where a fire that in Wisconsin would have been stopped instantly before it spread led to mass evacuations and the Governator waving his dick around on TV begging for federal aid. The small minority of conservative fucktards have created a big system of permanent legislative gridlock thanks to rampent gerymandering and the fact that all of the state's money is concentrated in their districts. The liberal "leaders" have been enablers of this retardation on a scale that would make Harry and Nancy blush, so they are hardly blameless in this situation. The state needs less fucking irrigated sections of desert with overpriced homes for the Reaganites to dwell in and more fundemental cornerstones of civilization, like Police, Fire, Schools, and manufacturing infastructure. The fucking extremists on both sides need to move to the center on this or this state will be tits up in three years, tops.


On the other end of the spectrum, there is the fact that this place pays a larger part of its GDP into the federal system to keep shithole states like Michigin and (insert any appalacian jesusland state here) afloat and the cost of living is so absurdly high that what passes for a ridiculously high wage elsewhere barely makes ends meet here. There is no easy solution to that, at least not until the internal transit system gets overhauled (likely never) and the housing inflationary bubble finally erodes around here (might happen).

[Drolgin Steingrinder]

The level of self entitlement and complete lack of personal responsibity of the average person living here still apalls me a full eighty years after moving here from Wisconsin.

Jebus, you're getting a bit long in the tooth, Jice.

[Jice Virago]

bah eight years. But I am starting to feel my age.....

[Tyek]

I voted no on those propositions because they were crap. It was the largest Tax increase ever being pawned off as a way to control government spending. The way they would control spending was to tax us 22 billion more for 2 more years to cover the crap they waste money on already, then hope the economy turns. It was poorly written and people were able to figure it out.

When I don't have money, I cut out expenses. This group just raises more taxes and spends more. They need to learn that new cars are not required every other year, that maybe they cut an aide or two from their staff. Stop chasing big businesses out of the state with assinine rules. Review the spending on the programs already in place. The AQMD has regulations that are 8 times harder to pass then the national standards on VOC levels. California was just named the worst state to own a business in for the 5th straight year due to all the crap they throw at companies.

Gzette - 6 years ago 12 dollars an hour and benefits would probably not get you a house to live in. My house at one point was worth 500K, for a 1800 sq foot track home well outside of LA.

[Kaldaur]

Tyek, if they are working in a grocery store at 12 dollars an hour, maybe they need to think about not getting a house. I'm a teacher and I can't afford to buy my own house. Everyone knows housing in California is absurdly expensive, so why would they think they have a prayer of home ownership if they swipe items over a checkout counter?

[Zaelath]

$12 an hour and got full health benefits, paid vacations, etc etc. I know college graduates making less than that in TX.

If college graduates in Texas can't make more than $12/hour, that's not California's fault...

[Tyek]

Tyek, if they are working in a grocery store at 12 dollars an hour, maybe they need to think about not getting a house. I'm a teacher and I can't afford to buy my own house. Everyone knows housing in California is absurdly expensive, so why would they think they have a prayer of home ownership if they swipe items over a checkout counter?

I completely agree with you Kaldaur, but expensive housing means expensive rent too. We also have expensive utilities. I pay more in trash, cable, telephone and electric each month them some of my co-workers pay for their house in the midwest.

Also if you know you should not buy something you cannot afford, why should we not expect the same thing from our government? They have a set budget, spend within it, don't ask for 22 billion more.

[Kaldaur]

Couldn't agree with you more. However, expecting fiscal responsibility out of our politicians is like expecting rational discourse on VV. It's a pipe dream.

[Bubba Grizz]

Damn, 500k? I could buy 4 of my homes with that. Would love to make CA money and still live here in Green Bay.

[miir]

Semi-detached homes in my area (in Toronto) regularly sell for 500-550k

[Funkmasterr]

Haha, and the house my girlfriend and I just made a offer on a few weeks ago is ~2000 sq feet a few blocks away from lake Minnetonka - for 147k.

[Aabidano]

If wages are keeping up with the housing market it's OK. In Tampa housing prices were [tinfoilhat]artificially[/tinfoilhat] driven through the roof, but wages did not increase to keep pace. We're about back to the point where a starter house is a viable purchase again for a couple starting out.

New construction that was "From the 280s!" 2 years ago is now "From the 100s!" today, and still a little high (IMO) for 1200 sq ft on a postage stamp lot next to the interstate. A friends daughter just bought something similar out of repo for $85k.

[Tyek]

What's funny is that new construction houses that were "from the mid 500's" are down to new construction from the 280's here.

[Gzette]

$12 an hour and got full health benefits, paid vacations, etc etc. I know college graduates making less than that in TX.

If college graduates in Texas can't make more than $12/hour, that's not California's fault...

not blaming californians, just making a comparison to show absurdity.

[Sargeras]

On a semi-related topic... because of the state budget:

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger is proposing to completely eliminate the state’s welfare program for families, medical insurance for low-income children and Cal Grants cash assistance to college and university students.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2 ... -aid-.html

The welfare system in California is completely abused, and it sickens me to see people on welfare who drive BMW's and own big screen TV's. It just sucks that those who really need it are probably going to lose it.

CalGrant, also sucks because a lot of people won't be able to go to college in California. And on a personal note, fuck you CalGrant for telling me that because I made too much money (by your standards) and I'm white that I wasn't eligible for funding.

[Tyek]

I can't speak to the abuse. I can only say that several times I have been to the grocery store, seen the family using the milk and other coupons from the state then walk out. I see them putting them into the fully loaded Escalade or Tahoe.

[Aslanna]

Haha, and the house my girlfriend and I just made a offer on a few weeks ago is ~2000 sq feet a few blocks away from lake Minnetonka - for 147k.

Yeah but you live in Minnesota. Not sure that's worth cheap housing!

[miir]

Yeah but you live in Minnesota. Not sure that's worth cheap housing!

If you like the outdoors and don't mind cold winters, Minnesota (especially around lake Minnetonka) is actually really, really nice.

[Zaelath]

Yeah but you live in Minnesota. Not sure that's worth cheap housing!

If you like the outdoors and don't mind cold winters, Minnesota (especially around lake Minnetonka) is actually really, really nice.

-30 isn't "cold", and you forgot hot, humid summers crawling with mosquitoes and ticks.

[Funkmasterr]

Yeah but you live in Minnesota. Not sure that's worth cheap housing!

If you like the outdoors and don't mind cold winters, Minnesota (especially around lake Minnetonka) is actually really, really nice.

-30 isn't "cold", and you forgot hot, humid summers crawling with mosquitoes and ticks.

Haha, no mosquitoes yet! The person who finds a way to get rid of mosquitoes forever will be as good as a god in my book.

It really isn't that bad here, I think people have this view of Minnesota that is actually more in line with northern Canadia (I know you lived here). I mean I've lived here forever so I am as used to the extremes as you can be, but still.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

Dude....ThermaCell. Learn it....buy it....love it.

that shit will repel people dressed up as moquitoes.

[Aabidano]

Yeah but you live in Minnesota. Not sure that's worth cheap housing!

If you like the outdoors and don't mind cold winters, Minnesota (especially around lake Minnetonka) is actually really, really nice.

I've spent entirely too much time traveling all over the US, some of the nicest folks I've ever run into have been in Wisconsin (except Madison) and Minnesota. I could live there.

The biggest douchebags would a toss up between, Philly, Boston and the Metro areas in CA (LA Basin, SF area).

[Avestan]

I live in California and voted against the taxes. I have also never voted for any proposition that wants extra funding unless it is for education and makes sense to me.

The fact of the matter is that this state is already taxed out of its mind. These new taxes would have just been ridiculous. While I am not "happy" that welfare, state parks, and CalGrant are getting cut (for starters), I do greatly prefer that to more taxes which put a huge hidden burden on businesses and employees and have the effect of stifling future growth in a big way.

California is ridiculously bloated. I am not "anti-tax", but these taxes were stupid.

If I was going to tax something, I would revoke the 30 year old law that freezes property taxes for homeowners at the valuation where it was purchased. That is why you have some many damned landlords who are paying $1000 a year in property tax for a $1.5 million house in Palo Alto.

The effect of that is a constriction on supply and on new construction. That forces home prices up and keeps existing homes old. Even in the most expensive neighborhoods in California, many of the houses are rundown and crappy.

I make a very good salary, but am nowhere close to buying a house here. I have had to learn to be ok with that. Now. . .I do live in the most expensive part of California, but it is frustrating to do the math and pretty much understand that if you do not have a household income that is at least $225,000, you cannot afford to own a home here. In my city and all the cities around me, you literally cannot find a house (even in this market) for less than $1 million. That $1 million house is a 2 bedroom, one bath, 1100 sq. ft. house on a postage stamp lot.

Depressing.

I guess my point is that California taxes are already the highest in the nation (9.25% sales tax, 9+% state income tax, crazy car registration taxes, high property tax for new homeowners, etc.). A lot of crap needs to be cut to the bone and before I vote for any new taxes, I want to see loopholes closed.

[Aabidano]

One of my old bosses has a small farm in Palo Alto he bought in the 70s, cool place. Think he paid ~$100k for it.

[Fenna]

I live in Wisconsin, and we are quickly going the way of California. Our 2010 budget is about to be passed (with zero republican votes) which will increase state taxes and fees by over 2 billion dollars per year. Our government has never been larger, and our business climate has never been in more danger. Yet an additional 2 billion is being taken out of the hands of private citizens and fed into the one place that isn't hurting--our fat, bloated government.

[Fash]

I live in Wisconsin, and we are quickly going the way of California. Our 2010 budget is about to be passed (with zero republican votes) which will increase state taxes and fees by over 2 billion dollars per year. Our government has never been larger, and our business climate has never been in more danger. Yet an additional 2 billion is being taken out of the hands of private citizens and fed into the one place that isn't hurting--our fat, bloated government.

Go Democrats!