Buying a watch: interesting "discovery"

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » March 23, 2009, 7:28 pm

"Swiss Made" is a big marketing ploy to gouge your pocket. In actuality, it's (relatively speaking) crap and has been for over 35 years.

I only found out after assloads of research into almost every middle to upper middle end Swiss brand out there. With the craptastic economy and the age of online shopping, luxury watches are at their lowest in like....forever. You can pretty much buy any Tag, Rolex, Omega, Corum, Girard Perregaux, etc for 50% or less than their MSRPs and depending on lack of name recognition, as much as 70-80% off.

I was just about to pull the trigger on an Ebay bid when I finally had my eyes opened by this: http://www.timezone.com/library/wbore/w ... 4647656250

Why COSC Doesn’t Grade Watches According to Performance
The objective assessment and testing of civilian watches started in the railway age when confidence in the timekeeping qualities of your watch became paramount. Observatories and laboratories in major cities rated timepieces. Manufacturers competed for prizes. Customers paid premiums for high-rated watches.

COSC differs in one important respect from all previous watch testing institutions and observatories. It is strictly non-competitive. There are no points awarded or any prizes. There are no degrees of success or honorable mentions. The watches either pass or fail.

This was the one condition demanded by the Swiss watch industry when COSC was founded in 1973. Until that time, there were two institutions in Switzerland that issued rating certificates to watches. The observatories rated prepared timepieces, held competitions and awarded prizes. Local testing laboratories in seven watch making towns issued rating certificates to time-of-day watches. These were grouped into an association called ABDO. ABDO rating certificates gave commendations such as "especially good" to deserving movements. Ninety percent of the watches submitted to ABDO laboratories were from three brands — Rolex, Omega and Mido.

In 1972, an important delegation of Swiss watch manufacturers went to see Mr René Meylan, then industry minister in the Neuchâtel cantonal government. They demanded the end of the observatory competitions. The reason: the Japanese had swept the board in the last two events. Mr Meylan replied that he thought that the whole point of the competitions was for the best to win. The brands then threatened to boycott the contests. Meylan gave in. The observatory competitions were suspended and never revived.

At the same time Rolex, Omega and Mido started to dismember ABDO. By selectively boycotting one or other of the seven testing laboratories they caused each to grant increasing discounts and favors until the organization collapsed.

Mr Soguel says COSC does not compile or publish comparative results because there is no demand for it from the brands.

He compares the COSC certificate to a university degree. “It certifies that you have reached a certain standard, but it does not guarantee that you can still pass the test 20 years hence. And when you frame your diploma on your office wall, you don’t mention the marks you got.”

Were COSC to introduce any sort of ranking by test results, Swiss watchmakers would be forced to compete on the intrinsic qualities of their watches and the whole value hierarchy of Swiss watches would be overturned.

Bottom line: Japan (Seiko in particular) makes better movements than the Swiss and has done so for the last 35+ years. Their movements (at least the comparable level stuff) keep better timing, require less maintenence, and are more durable. If they actually tried to go into the high end tourbillon stuff, they could have already given Patek Phillip a run for its money.

Soreali · Post by **Soreali** » March 23, 2009, 8:14 pm

Hi Gimp

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » March 23, 2009, 8:21 pm

Zounds!

Spang · Post by **Spang** » March 24, 2009, 1:07 am

I can't remember the last time I wore a watch.

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » March 24, 2009, 9:56 am

I didn't think people wore watches since cell phones came out (except military). I know that's when I stopped.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » March 24, 2009, 10:17 am

I read an article a year or two ago that said watch wearing has declined drastically for the reason mentioned by Ashur except in one relevant area: high end watches. It's because these watches are worn as a status symbol rather than for their utility. At the time of this article (before the recession), high end watches had fared better their lower end counterparts because demand for them had not dropped as sharply. I'm sure the economy is now putting a dent in the high end as well. Younger people have pretty much abandoned the watch because they're rather pointless when you're likely to have a cell phone and possibly another gadget or three with you that can tell you the time.

I stopped wearing a watch about two years ago when I realized the only reason I ever strapped the thing on was that I was in the habit of doing so. I didn't actually use the watch ever. It's been sitting in a drawer ever since. The exception to this is my Polaris heart rate monitor, but that only gets worn an hour or two at a time.

Post by **Sylvus** » March 24, 2009, 12:23 pm

I wear my watch mostly as a piece of jewelry or status symbol, as I wear nothing else.

I also use it to tell time. It's easier than reaching into my pocket and grabbing my phone.

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » March 24, 2009, 12:31 pm

Soreali wrote:Hi Gimp

Hey dork.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » March 24, 2009, 12:32 pm

I could see myself buying a sport watch with a nice digital display and a stopwatch and a heart rate monitor and a compass and whatnot. That shit could be useful. I would absolutely not wear it as a fashion statement or a piece of jewelry, because sport watches aren't sexy, but that's the only kind of watch I could conceive of as useful. The idea of wearing a heavy, cumbersome, analog watch just seems ridiculous to me.

Which isn't to say that those of y'all who like watches shouldn't continue using them. More power to you. I don't wear or get jewelry period, so I'm not the kind of guy who would wear a watch for such a reason, but that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it.

I do think the idea of working really really hard to make an ultra accurate watch, down to thousandths of a second, is a little silly in the era of timepieces which can sync up and update times via wireless connections and so forth. But hey.

I do think it's awesome that the whole Rolex thing is nothing but status and has nothing to do with quality. I love it when worthless expensive shit gets called out like that (see: Grey Goose Vodka)

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » March 24, 2009, 12:35 pm

Sylvus wrote:I wear my watch mostly as a piece of jewelry or status symbol, as I wear nothing else.

I also use it to tell time. It's easier than reaching into my pocket and grabbing my phone.

You wear a Breitling if I remember correctly. I pretty much do the same (use it all the time rather than reaching for the cell phone in my pocket) except I've yet to get a watch which I'd consider a status symbol.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » March 24, 2009, 12:37 pm

I wear a watch for fashion only.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » March 24, 2009, 12:38 pm

Sylvus wrote:I wear my watch mostly as a piece of jewelry or status symbol, as I wear nothing else.

I also use it to tell time. It's easier than reaching into my pocket and grabbing my phone.

Same situation for me.

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » March 24, 2009, 1:02 pm

Sueven wrote:I don't wear or get jewelry period, so I'm not the kind of guy who would wear a watch for such a reason, but that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it.

I only wear my wedding band under duress. I hate jewelry.

A little secret: I liked my old wedding band better. The one my new wife picked out for me is thicker and feels like it pushes my fingers apart.

Post by **Sylvus** » March 24, 2009, 1:08 pm

Kelgar wrote:You wear a Breitling if I remember correctly. I pretty much do the same (use it all the time rather than reaching for the cell phone in my pocket) except I've yet to get a watch which I'd consider a status symbol.

That's correct. Have I mentioned that before? Jesus, how pretentious am I??

Anyway, it also has a little more meaning than just a status symbol to me. My dad worked very hard going from living in a trailer park to becoming a wealthy man, and on his 50th birthday he bought himself a really nice Breitling to celebrate hitting one of his financial goals. On my Brother's 30th, he bought him a Breitling, and then one for me on my 25th. So it's kind of like a tradition, and something that I wear that reminds me of two of the people that I'm closest to and the value of hard work and blah blah blah. Also: it's shiny!

I told my girlfriend that she better start saving up to buy me a Wedding Watch, if she ever wants me to marry her, but she seems to think I need to wear a ring.

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » March 24, 2009, 1:23 pm

Sueven wrote:I could see myself buying a sport watch with a nice digital display and a stopwatch and a heart rate monitor and a compass and whatnot. That shit could be useful. I would absolutely not wear it as a fashion statement or a piece of jewelry, because sport watches aren't sexy, but that's the only kind of watch I could conceive of as useful. The idea of wearing a heavy, cumbersome, analog watch just seems ridiculous to me.

A well-made one can potentially have better longevity. Aside from that, the general appeal of an analog amongst watch connoisseurs isn't so much for its sexiness or bling factor so much as for being a feat of quality engineering. Bluntly speaking, the type who go for gold, diamonds, platinum, etc on their watches are more often than not the simple type who like shiny objects (in my experience, I've only seen trashy types like mobsters or gangstas/wanabe gangstas wearing gold Rolexes with diamonds).

Which isn't to say that those of y'all who like watches shouldn't continue using them. More power to you. I don't wear or get jewelry period, so I'm not the kind of guy who would wear a watch for such a reason, but that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it.

I don't see wearing a watch so much as wearing a piece of jewelry in the sense that you describe. I'd compare the appeal of owning a nice watch more along the lines of owning a fine sports or luxury car.

I do think the idea of working really really hard to make an ultra accurate watch, down to thousandths of a second, is a little silly in the era of timepieces which can sync up and update times via wireless connections and so forth. But hey.

Which is why I'm now leaning towards Seiko's new solar-powered atomic watches from their Brightz line. It's a merger of new and old technology.

I do think it's awesome that the whole Rolex thing is nothing but status and has nothing to do with quality. I love it when worthless expensive shit gets called out like that (see: Grey Goose Vodka)

Yup.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » March 24, 2009, 1:50 pm

I have allergies to metal so I break out if I have a metal band watch. The metal needs to be a certain karot(?). My wedding ring is 24k platinum. I have a pocket watch that belonged to my father that I carry around. Not the best time piece but that doesn't bother me.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » March 24, 2009, 1:52 pm

Sylvus wrote:Jesus, how pretentious am I??

I just bought a 350$ garbage can for my kitchen, so I cannot point fingers.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » March 24, 2009, 1:53 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:
Sylvus wrote:Jesus, how pretentious am I??
I just bought a 350$ garbage can for my kitchen, so I cannot point fingers.

Holy shit. Does it walk itself out as well?

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » March 24, 2009, 1:54 pm

Bubba Grizz wrote:
Fairweather Pure wrote:
Sylvus wrote:Jesus, how pretentious am I??
I just bought a 350$ garbage can for my kitchen, so I cannot point fingers.
Holy shit. Does it walk itself out as well?

You would fucking think so!

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » March 24, 2009, 2:31 pm

Let's hear more about this garbage can.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » March 24, 2009, 2:36 pm

I have like 3 watches that I have not worn for years (I'll wear one at like weddings and stuff). A Gucci watch my Mom bought me in 1987, some other blah watch and a watch I got from Toyota for being super-awesome. If I were to wear a watch, I suppose I would need to take them to a jeweler for battery replacement though!

I would hear more of this trash can as well....

Drolgin Steingrinder · Post by **Drolgin Steingrinder** » March 24, 2009, 3:22 pm

Vipp?

http://www.fitzsu.com/vipp-trash-diaper ... -3723.html

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » March 24, 2009, 4:02 pm

I like mechanical watches, wearing a self winding Seiko dive watch right now and have a few dozen pocket and wrist watches floating around. Mostly American made, few Swiss, couple Japanese.

Most recognized brands, Rolex in particular are pretty junky, you're paying for a name. Anything quartz you're paying for a case and the name, the innards are cheap.

I use them to tell time, primarily. Easier than getting out my phone when I'm not at my desk.

Many years ago part of my job while in the Navy was watch and clock repair and maintenance. Took a liking to the field then and have an interest. Used to make decent money doing repairs on the side, still have all the tools to do so.

Don't know about today, but most of the timepieces used on ships into the late '90s had been in service since WWII or earlier, and stood a real chance of lasting indefinitely with very minimal maintenance.

Deward · Post by **Deward** » March 24, 2009, 5:48 pm

I feel pretty naked if I don't have my watch on. Mine broke a couple weeks ago and I still wore it a couple days out of habit. Then I had to wear my wife's because I was going crazy without it. My job sucks though so I look at it 50 times a day. I always thought those old pocket watches would be cool to own.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » March 24, 2009, 5:54 pm

I really need a watch! I haven't worn a watch since I was in junior high, and I don't like them all that much. But last year, after I got my first casino job, I noticed that it might be prudent to get one. If you ever notice there are no clocks in casinos. They purposefully keep them out. I used to pull my cell phone out of my pocket to look at the time but when a manager noticed me doing this I was reprimanded. As employees we were not allowed to have cell phones on the floor, only in the break room and in the lockers. That was my old job, my new job is pretty much the same. I see myself buying a watch pretty soon. Although there are ways to tell the time when I'm working, the most frequent method I use is looking at other people's watches who are sitting at the poker table. It really pisses me off when their watches are set 5 minutes ahead or behind or sometimes don't even work and are broken. I just want to scream, "why the fuck are you wearing that thing?"

That's it. This thread convinced me. I need a watch.

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » March 24, 2009, 7:03 pm

Xyun wrote: That's it. This thread convinced me. I need a watch.

If you need one simply for time keeping/functionality, a Casio should be fine. If that comes across as too cheap looking, lower end battery powered Seiko chronographs can be had for less than 100 bucks. The sharpest looking Seiko I've seen in the sub 500 dollar category is the Coutura SNP017 (what I currently wear all the time). The SNP008 isn't half bad either.

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » March 24, 2009, 7:08 pm

BTW, if anyone's looking for a nice, normally way overpriced (but not currently) status symbol watch for the missus or a lady friend, go ahead and check out item #280324192933 on ebay. 20 hours left on that one.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » March 24, 2009, 8:40 pm

My status symbol is a Casio G-Shock.

Syenye · Post by **Syenye** » March 24, 2009, 8:56 pm

I always wear a watch... it's much easier to find my wrist than it is to find my cell phone. I don't wear jewelry other than my wedding ring and my watch. I have a Skagen, and it's super lightweight so I don't really notice it.

Drasta · Post by **Drasta** » March 24, 2009, 9:30 pm

my watch = cellphone ......

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » March 24, 2009, 9:43 pm

Dad's old Fossil. Not sure what model. Ample status juice.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 25, 2009, 1:54 am

I hate jewelry but wear a watch primarily to tell the time and secondly to set timer on breaks, lunch etc.

The iPhone has outstanding alarm/clock functionality and I use it as part of my bed alarm system (multiple alarms) but it's still not as easy as looking at my wristwatch and, when I need to time something, using the mechanical alarm on my watch to quickly set the alarm.

Main things I look for in my cheap watches:

-has the date (number)
-is analog
-can quickly set alarm using bezel

I buy cheap watches and wear them until the band breaks.

I suppose it's whatever you feel like wearing. For me, it is all about functionality. My dad wears a watch that might be found as a free prize in a cereal box while my brother wears a Rolex Sub Mariner.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » March 25, 2009, 3:38 am

I just ordered the P182 for only $9!

Style, functionality, and that dependable Chinese manufacturing you know and trust!

You know it's a good deal when the shipping costs more than the item.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 25, 2009, 8:59 am

That watch is ugly!

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » March 25, 2009, 9:50 am

And the band is made from genuine panda!

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » March 25, 2009, 12:05 pm

I hope you're joking.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » March 25, 2009, 1:46 pm

Is that the official symbol of Al Qaeda in the middle?

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » March 25, 2009, 5:32 pm

Looks more like a Klingon bird of prey.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » March 25, 2009, 6:49 pm

Kelgar wrote:I only found out after assloads of research into almost every middle to upper middle end Swiss brand out there. With the craptastic economy and the age of online shopping, luxury watches are at their lowest in like....forever. You can pretty much buy any Tag, Rolex, Omega, Corum, Girard Perregaux, etc for 50% or less than their MSRPs and depending on lack of name recognition, as much as 70-80% off.

Not sure about every watch maker.. But I know some don't honor the warranty if you purchase online. Also the possibility of getting a fake is a lot greater than at a reputable seller.

Having said that.. I haven't worn a watch in over 20 years.

Xyun · Post by **Xyun** » March 26, 2009, 1:27 am

if this crowd doesn't like it, then it's gotta be cool. The strap itself is worth $9, I can change out the watch if it's not as cool as it is in the picture.

lol.

Leonaerd · Post by **Leonaerd** » March 26, 2009, 2:38 am

I just figure Hot Topic sells the same watch for at least $0.50 less. You got jipped!

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » March 26, 2009, 9:41 am

I wear 3 watches at all times. Two on my left wrist and one around my right ankle.

Swatch watch motherfuckers.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » March 26, 2009, 12:24 pm

Aabidano wrote:part of my job while in the Navy was watch and clock repair and maintenance

Aabidano = Sylar? omg!

I don't normally wear a watch and laugh at people that wear big flashy ones. Watches are (to me) just an accessory that guys can wear when being a bit more formal. There are several Movado watches that I love for how they look, but I'm not about to pay for. I've got some Seiko that looks like a Movado that I wear when it matches something I'm wearing out. The battery has been dead for probably 3 years and I really don't care. It's not like I look at it when I wear it.

Swatch watches ftw! Wedding rings suck. Just say no.

Fash · Post by **Fash** » March 26, 2009, 12:43 pm

I bought a pretty nice Bulova watch (~$350) that I wear if I'm dressed up nice. I am picky about watches, they have to be as slim as possible (height off the wrist) and simple. It's going to look really sharp with my new suit.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » March 27, 2009, 8:38 am

Siji wrote:
Aabidano wrote:part of my job while in the Navy was watch and clock repair and maintenance
Aabidano = Sylar? omg!

No, but if that's what he did I can almost guarantee we knew each other.

Ransure · Post by **Ransure** » March 30, 2009, 3:45 pm

Aabidano wrote:
Siji wrote:
Aabidano wrote:part of my job while in the Navy was watch and clock repair and maintenance
Aabidano = Sylar? omg!
No, but if that's what he did I can almost guarantee we knew each other.

Dont watch TV much, huh?

About a year ago I picked up an Omega Speedmaster, its a nice quality watch with a good self winding movement that will last for a long time. Id still like to get an IWC as my next watch.

Kelgar · Post by **Kelgar** » March 30, 2009, 5:16 pm

Ransure wrote:
Aabidano wrote:
Siji wrote:
Aabidano wrote:part of my job while in the Navy was watch and clock repair and maintenance
Aabidano = Sylar? omg!
No, but if that's what he did I can almost guarantee we knew each other.
Dont watch TV much, huh?

About a year ago I picked up an Omega Speedmaster, its a nice quality watch with a good self winding movement that will last for a long time. Id still like to get an IWC as my next watch.

Lol, wtf! Have you not read the article?

Japanese watch movements >> Swiss! Unless you're really hung up on wasting that extra money for a Swiss "pedigree" which is actually crap with regards to price vs quality, you're better off getting a Seiko spring dive. It lasts 70+ hours on a full wind (compared to the usual 40-42 from Swiss). It's also almost certainly superior in terms of durability, reliability, etc, etc.

Ransure · Post by **Ransure** » March 30, 2009, 6:58 pm

Kelgar wrote:
Ransure wrote:
Aabidano wrote:
Siji wrote:
Aabidano wrote:part of my job while in the Navy was watch and clock repair and maintenance
Aabidano = Sylar? omg!
No, but if that's what he did I can almost guarantee we knew each other.
Dont watch TV much, huh?

About a year ago I picked up an Omega Speedmaster, its a nice quality watch with a good self winding movement that will last for a long time. Id still like to get an IWC as my next watch.
Lol, wtf! Have you not read the article?

Japanese watch movements >> Swiss! Unless you're really hung up on wasting that extra money for a Swiss "pedigree" which is actually crap with regards to price vs quality, you're better off getting a Seiko spring dive. It lasts 70+ hours on a full wind (compared to the usual 40-42 from Swiss). It's also almost certainly superior in terms of durability, reliability, etc, etc.

Comon Kelgar, you know me, I dont do things because they are logical

For me its a fashion thing... I actually catch myself looking at my cell phone to check the time OMGIAMRETARDEDCAUSEALOTISTWOWORDS instead of my arm.