Homemade Sourdoughs

[Lalanae]

Eric got me a bread machine for Christmas and since then I've been getting into all sorts of homemade breads.

I'm a day away from my first homemade sourdough starter being ready for use. That process has really been kind of fun. I keep it on my desk

I used a commercial yeast, but think I'm going to try natural yeasts next, either using crushed organic grapes or catching local yeasts.

Does anyone have any experience with sourdough starters who can share some tips or recipes?

Anyone try using grapes? The "recipe" I found doesn't go into much detail about how to get the grape pieces out (just says to "strain" them out, which is not really possible) and doesn't talk about how to feed it since you don't use commercial sugar (with more grapes? grape juices?)

Pics Days 1-4

[Drolgin Steingrinder]

Cheese cloth / coffe filter / teatowel or a fine sieve works fine

Unhomogenized yoghurt (or buttermilk) and honey is what I usually use.

[Fash]

What's wrong with using a commercial yeast?

[Drolgin Steingrinder]

Some people claim that the sour is missing from sourdough made with yeast, shrug.

[Lalanae]

Cheese cloth / coffe filter / teatowel or a fine sieve works fine

It's gotten runnier over the last 2 days, but should it be liquidy enough to drain through a coffee filter? Mine is about (or slightly thicker) than paint, I'd say.

[Drolgin Steingrinder]

Oh - I've basically used grape *juice*, and that's what I've strained. I dunno!

[Lalanae]

OH, well that would be certainly easier than whole crushed grapes. I would imagine some of the natural yeasts in the grape (in the skin presumably?) would still be present in the juice. The recipe just called for flour, water, and the crushed grapes, and to remove the crushed grapes after a certain period of time. That sounds like a mess to me.

[Drolgin Steingrinder]

Well you could crush grapes and put them in a muslin bag and pull that out later!

[Lalanae]

Good idea!

[Lalanae]

Well my first loaf last night turned out good, but it did not taste really like a sourdough. Whether it was the commercial yeast, too cool of a temperature, or the recipe, I don't know. Gave the starter another day to ferment and will try another loaf tonight.

[Lalanae]

What's wrong with using a commercial yeast?

Besides what Drolgin said, different yeasts yield different results. The wild yeast in San Francisco is what makes "San Francisco Sourdough" for example. There are also those who believe that by using wild yeasts you end up with a variety of strains that end up being more viable and flavorful than commercial (one strain) yeast.

[Keverian FireCry]

Basically the reason you don't want to use commercial yeast is because it is developed to rise quickly for faster bread making. The whole point of sourdough bread is that it rises slower and has time to develop natural yeasts and bacteria which gives it the sourness. Most commercial sourdoughs aren't actually sourdough- the sour flavoring is added afterward.

The sour flavor is actually not from any yeast, natural or otherwise, but rather the bacteria that comes in under the right conditions that the yeasts have created. Then the bacteria creates a condition that kills most micros except the yeasts that created it (perfect symbiosis). Commercial yeast goes too fast to allow that natural symbiosis to mature.

The bacteria that those San Francisco wild yeasts bring about is called Lactobacillus sanfranciscensis. Hehe. It's relatively acid resistant, so I've always liked pineapple juice(no sugar added) because it keeps less resistant, unwanted micros out of the crucial beginning of your starter. I think grape juice is a bit more acidic, so that must be great too, but I first learned with pineapple so I've stuck with it.

[Canelek]

Wouldn't the tannins in grape skins make for a bit too much bitterness?

Oh, and buy this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Bread-Bakers-Appr ... 564&sr=8-1

This book is supposed to be awesome.

[Keverian FireCry]

Yeah, I'm not sure ow that tartness would translate in the end product, but it could help or hurt it i suppose.

[Lalanae]

Basically the reason you don't want to use commercial yeast is because it is developed to rise quickly for faster bread making. The whole point of sourdough bread is that it rises slower and has time to develop natural yeasts and bacteria which gives it the sourness. Most commercial sourdoughs aren't actually sourdough- the sour flavoring is added afterward.

The sour flavor is actually not from any yeast, natural or otherwise, but rather the bacteria that comes in under the right conditions that the yeasts have created. Then the bacteria creates a condition that kills most micros except the yeasts that created it (perfect symbiosis). Commercial yeast goes too fast to allow that natural symbiosis to mature.

The bacteria that those San Francisco wild yeasts bring about is called Lactobacillus sanfranciscensis. Hehe. It's relatively acid resistant, so I've always liked pineapple juice(no sugar added) because it keeps less resistant, unwanted micros out of the crucial beginning of your starter. I think grape juice is a bit more acidic, so that must be great too, but I first learned with pineapple so I've stuck with it.

Wow thanks Kev. That's an awesome explanation.

My 2nd loaf wasn't much different than the first and with your explanation it makes sense now. It tasted and had the textured of a regular white bread. It was good, but wouldn't pass for sourdough. It was too...fluffy and as I said the flavor was practically unnoticeable.

I think I'll try pineapple juice my next go'round. Do you mind sharing the recipe you use for the starter? Do you have a good recipe for the finished bread too?