Depression INC!

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

the economy in general he has done a good job on with the cards he got dealt. The sad thing is all of the shit was already in place to fail when he arrived and he will get the brunt of the shit that he had no part in creating.

Clinton spent his entire administration fixing Reagan/Bush1 budgets and you accuse him of ....


Let me ask you this, what did the national budget look like in the year 1992 and whose fault was that?

Clinton "balanced the budget" by raising taxes. He also grew the national debt by around 2 Trillion dllars.....GWB has raised it by about 3.5 while in a war...and yet you accuse GWB of being the most fiscally irresponsible president in history. What you are, in reality, is blind to the fact that the ONLY thing that is going to change is that you will pay more taxes under Obama while spending and borrowing goes up. Of course with all those tax increases and the reduced military spending, he might be able to proclaim his victory in balancing the budget again. Yay for us!

[Zaelath]

Clinton "balanced the budget" by raising taxes. He also grew the national debt by around 2 Trillion dllars.....GWB has raised it by about 3.5 while in a war...and yet you accuse GWB of being the most fiscally irresponsible president in history. What you are, in reality, is blind to the fact that the ONLY thing that is going to change is that you will pay more taxes under Obama while spending and borrowing goes up. Of course with all those tax increases and the reduced military spending, he might be able to proclaim his victory in balancing the budget again. Yay for us!

Every administration in the last 50 years has reduced the national debt as a percentage of GDP other than Bush/Regan/Bush, I think you fought a few wars in that time too.

True, you don't have to actually make any payments, if you can raise GDP faster than the debt you can actually borrow more and still see a reduction in the debt:GDP ratio. But to equate anyone's economic performance (other than his daddy) to GWB is ridiculous.

By the way, before you make yourself look even more foolish by claiming raw figures are more important; debt:GDP measures capacity to pay, and it's ignorance of that ratio which sees your economy about to take a swan dive into the toilet, not the total amount of borrowings.

[Winnow]

OH THE HUMANITY!

[Aardor]

[Ashur]

I knew the Circuit City they just fucking opened next to us wouldn't last forever - a Best Buy would have done better do to better media product stock, but damn. It's on the list to be liquidated.

Damn, I bought my computer there too (different store).

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

Circuit City was just a matter of time seeing as how they were prettty inept compared to BestBuy. Anyone care to bet on how long behind them that HH Gregg is?

[Ashur]

Hrm, every time I walk into an HH Gregg, it's packed. In our Circuit City you could probably carry on a conversation with someone on the other side of the store.

[Boogahz]

No HH Gregg's here, but the Circuit City shops have been virtually empty for years in the Austin area. I remember hearing about bad business decisions they were making back in the mid 90's, and I could never stand being in their stores for long. They were still running with something too close to the old retail sales mentality while trying to look like the newer big box "help yourself" stores.

[Fairweather Pure]

CC always has great DVD sales. However, the closest one is about 45 minutes away so any savings on DVDs would be made up in the cost of gas and time.

[Sylvus]

CC always has great DVD sales. However, the closest one is about 45 minutes away so any savings on DVDs would be made up in the cost of gas and time.

Are you talking about the one in Jackson? That's one of the stores that is being shut down.

[Fairweather Pure]

CC always has great DVD sales. However, the closest one is about 45 minutes away so any savings on DVDs would be made up in the cost of gas and time.

Are you talking about the one in Jackson? That's one of the stores that is being shut down.

Kalamazoo actually.

[Canelek]

I am surprised CC had lasted so long. They are pretty much inferior to the other retailers.

[Winnow]

DJIA -427

DJIA 7997

Good lord. We're screwed. I sold a position (mentioned in finance section) pre market and actually made a small amount before this fiasco.

Support is broken. If 7800 doesn't hold, we go down to ~7100. Ugly.

[Leonaerd]

I'm glad I had a job at a foreclosure firm this past summer.
And don't have stocks.
And have a paid-for car with good mileage.
Oh, Zeitgeist, how angry your truths make me.

[Winnow]

Actually, we've already double bottomed at 7800, there are no triple bottoms. Better hope that 7180 holds in the next few days. No joke. Some people's retirement funds are toast. I wonder when people will stop laughing at my 2012.

If 7180 goes (2001 low), we head to 4000 sometime in 2009.

I don't see much light at the end of the tunnel. Even companies reporting outstanding earnings and outlooks are getting crushed.

Embrace the horror!

[Canelek]

I wouldn't worry so much. I am in the process of develop a serum that will bring lost loved ones back from the dead.

[Winnow]

DJIA -444

7,553

Holy Fuck.

Reading the Stock message boards, there's a lot of people that are completely ruined. Depression Inc. Still have the 7,180 final test but a lot of people are screwed already.

[Xyun]

Just the fruits of your 2004 vote for deregulation, class warfare, and trickle down corruption coming to bear. Not sure how you can be so outraged when you are an advocate for the regressive ignorant philosophy that got us here. You are to blame Winnow. You know who's not worried? The people who's pockets you helped to line, the 1% who's free market values you champion.

[Lalanae]

If Winnow worked for a small business, are they allowed to fire him for voting for Bush?

[Winnow]

Just the fruits of your 2004 vote for deregulation, class warfare, and trickle down corruption coming to bear. Not sure how you can be so outraged when you are an advocate for the regressive ignorant philosophy that got us here. You are to blame Winnow. You know who's not worried? The people who's pockets you helped to line, the 1% who's free market values you champion.

I'm not outraged. I'm watching in awe as this unfolds. My 401K is pretty fucked like most other's are here, but my trading has been mostly even. No gains or losses overall which isn't bad considering the market.

If the DJIA doesn't bounce off 7180 support, we're in for some seriously bad times. It doesn't matter if you're not personally affected. Everyone gets pulled down. Recessions are manageable, but a depression is something most here haven't stopped to grasped how bad things will be.

[Xyun]

Just the fruits of your 2004 vote for deregulation, class warfare, and trickle down corruption coming to bear. Not sure how you can be so outraged when you are an advocate for the regressive ignorant philosophy that got us here. You are to blame Winnow. You know who's not worried? The people who's pockets you helped to line, the 1% who's free market values you champion.

I'm not outraged. I'm watching in awe as this unfolds. My 401K is pretty fucked like most other's are here, but my trading has been mostly even. No gains or losses overall which isn't bad considering the market.

If the DJIA doesn't bounce off 7180 support, we're in for some seriously bad times. It doesn't matter if you're not personally affected. Everyone gets pulled down. Recessions are manageable, but a depression is something most here haven't stopped to grasped how bad things will be.

Did you stop to grasp how bad things are or will be when you voted for McCain?

[Winnow]

Please. The markets would be up if McCain had been elected. Wake up! Markets tend not to like socialist presidents. You're starting to go a little blind politically with your liberal fanaticism.

[Xyun]

I wasn't always this blind, 8 years of being poked in the eyes with legendary incompetence tends to have consequences, unless of course you never used your vision in the first place.




Which part of this graph is the most socialist in your opinion?

[Canelek]

Please. The markets would be up if McCain had been elected. Wake up! Markets tend not to like socialist presidents. You're starting to go a little blind politically with your liberal fanaticism.

While I disagree with Xyun regarding the direct impact of the market and voting for McCain, I must say that that is one of the most retarded comments you have made in quite some time--AZ sports aside.

[Boogahz]

Please. The markets would be up if McCain had been elected. Wake up! Markets tend not to like socialist presidents. You're starting to go a little blind politically with your liberal fanaticism.

While I disagree with Xyun regarding the direct impact of the market and voting for McCain, I must say that that is one of the most retarded comments you have made in quite some time--AZ sports aside.

It isn't retarded if you look at the first year of trading after elections. The incumbent party staying in power has helped the markets stay more stable, or post gains, for a while now because they essentially knew what they were getting into. Changes in power resulted in more downturns.

During the 20's-40's the market favored challengers over incumbents

40's-early 70's reaction was mixed

last 30+ years noted above-average stock market returns with a strong preference for incumbent parties.


That's okay though, y'all can go right ahead with the same name-calling that you threw around during the election. I am going to move ahead.

[Aardor]

Please. The markets would be up if McCain had been elected. Wake up! Markets tend not to like socialist presidents. You're starting to go a little blind politically with your liberal fanaticism.

While I disagree with Xyun regarding the direct impact of the market and voting for McCain, I must say that that is one of the most retarded comments you have made in quite some time--AZ sports aside.

It isn't retarded if you look at the first year of trading after elections. The incumbent party staying in power has helped the markets stay more stable, or post gains, for a while now because they essentially knew what they were getting into. Changes in power resulted in more downturns.

During the 20's-40's the market favored challengers over incumbents

40's-early 70's reaction was mixed

last 30+ years noted above-average stock market returns with a strong preference for incumbent parties.


That's okay though, y'all can go right ahead with the same name-calling that you threw around during the election. I am going to move ahead.

His reasons are still retarded, making his entire point retarded, regardless of whether what he was saying actually had some grounding in reality.

Also, I feel like you explained your point away about markets. You compiled a list of 9 decades, 3 of which the markets went up after election, 3 of which the markets didn't change, and 3 of which the markets went down. Given the problems with the economy, and wall street specifically, before the election, and given how historic of an election it was, I don't see any way you can explain the current market downturn on Obama being president elect. Furthermore, did the trading go down after they were elected, or after they took office? seems to me that trading would be up before they took office, if people were worried about socialism when someone took office. Back to the point, I don't think you can even reliably predict the market going down when Obama was elected, given how often the observation has changed, the lack of data (not too many changes from incumbent-> challenger), and the markets flux before the election.

As far as mud flinging continuing to go on: Lots of things were said here regarding the election, just like the last election when the mud flinging continued for awhile. It will die out in time, but it will be slowed by Winnow making ridiculous and idiotic posts (er.. "Winnow making posts"), and people like you actually thinking they have some value.

[Boogahz]

Please. The markets would be up if McCain had been elected. Wake up! Markets tend not to like socialist presidents. You're starting to go a little blind politically with your liberal fanaticism.

While I disagree with Xyun regarding the direct impact of the market and voting for McCain, I must say that that is one of the most retarded comments you have made in quite some time--AZ sports aside.

It isn't retarded if you look at the first year of trading after elections. The incumbent party staying in power has helped the markets stay more stable, or post gains, for a while now because they essentially knew what they were getting into. Changes in power resulted in more downturns.

During the 20's-40's the market favored challengers over incumbents

40's-early 70's reaction was mixed

last 30+ years noted above-average stock market returns with a strong preference for incumbent parties.


That's okay though, y'all can go right ahead with the same name-calling that you threw around during the election. I am going to move ahead.

His reasons are still retarded, making his entire point retarded, regardless of whether what he was saying actually had some grounding in reality.

Also, I feel like you explained your point away about markets. You compiled a list of 9 decades, 3 of which the markets went up after election, 3 of which the markets didn't change, and 3 of which the markets went down. Given the problems with the economy, and wall street specifically, before the election, and given how historic of an election it was, I don't see any way you can explain the current market downturn on Obama being president elect. Furthermore, did the trading go down after they were elected, or after they took office? seems to me that trading would be up before they took office, if people were worried about socialism when someone took office. Back to the point, I don't think you can even reliably predict the market going down when Obama was elected, given how often the observation has changed, the lack of data (not too many changes from incumbent-> challenger), and the markets flux before the election.

As far as mud flinging continuing to go on: Lots of things were said here regarding the election, just like the last election when the mud flinging continued for awhile. It will die out in time, but it will be slowed by Winnow making ridiculous and idiotic posts (er.. "Winnow making posts"), and people like you actually thinking they have some value.

The declines/increases were measured for the year after each election. You know, as well as everyone else, that any administration which will be leaving power is essentially a "lame duck" until the next is brought in a couple months after the elections.

In regards to the fluctuations prior to an election, there is also generally (6 of 8 times when a challenger party was elected) a loss by the S&P 500 during the 90 days leading up to the election. 11 of 12 saw increases when the incumbent was reelected.

I also referred specifically to the last 30+ years (going back to 1976 to be exact) of challenger administrations ushering in the declines with their election to office. I posted the others since I figured someone would say "but it isn't always like that so you're wrong!!!" as everyone seems to enjoy around here. While things could turn to something closer to the years after the depression if they get much worse, which would be the opposite reaction to the last 30 years, we haven't made it there yet. This is not about which party wins, but which party returns to the office that was held by that party in the prior administration. I never said that I agreed that McCain or Obama being elected would have fixed or further broken anything, I just said that there was basis in history to say that it is probable for Winnow to have (inadvertently?) posted a fact that nobody would be able to acknowledge without feeling that they had destroyed what they felt was right.

I admit that I find most of Winnow's posts to be idiotic, but once you dig through all of the manure, you "might" find that there are some facts included. Sometimes it is pure crap, but not always. If we all just dismiss each other's posts as pure bullshit as soon as it disagrees with our own point of view, what do we become?

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

Please. The markets would be up if McCain had been elected. Wake up! Markets tend not to like socialist presidents. You're starting to go a little blind politically with your liberal fanaticism.

While I disagree with Xyun regarding the direct impact of the market and voting for McCain, I must say that that is one of the most retarded comments you have made in quite some time--AZ sports aside.

It isn't retarded if you look at the first year of trading after elections. The incumbent party staying in power has helped the markets stay more stable, or post gains, for a while now because they essentially knew what they were getting into. Changes in power resulted in more downturns.

During the 20's-40's the market favored challengers over incumbents

40's-early 70's reaction was mixed

last 30+ years noted above-average stock market returns with a strong preference for incumbent parties.


That's okay though, y'all can go right ahead with the same name-calling that you threw around during the election. I am going to move ahead.

His reasons are still retarded, making his entire point retarded, regardless of whether what he was saying actually had some grounding in reality.

Also, I feel like you explained your point away about markets. You compiled a list of 9 decades, 3 of which the markets went up after election, 3 of which the markets didn't change, and 3 of which the markets went down. Given the problems with the economy, and wall street specifically, before the election, and given how historic of an election it was, I don't see any way you can explain the current market downturn on Obama being president elect. Furthermore, did the trading go down after they were elected, or after they took office? seems to me that trading would be up before they took office, if people were worried about socialism when someone took office. Back to the point, I don't think you can even reliably predict the market going down when Obama was elected, given how often the observation has changed, the lack of data (not too many changes from incumbent-> challenger), and the markets flux before the election.

As far as mud flinging continuing to go on: Lots of things were said here regarding the election, just like the last election when the mud flinging continued for awhile. It will die out in time, but it will be slowed by Winnow making ridiculous and idiotic posts (er.. "Winnow making posts"), and people like you actually thinking they have some value.

He is not that far off. People are reactionary on anything they perceive to be a threat. The top 1% that Xyun talks about also are the top spenders. When they know they are going to get hammered on capital gains taxes and know their tax rates are going to skyrocket, they are pulling their shit out and not investing it.

[Winnow]

Scientists have always been pawns of the military!

[Bubba Grizz]

Scientists have always been pawns of the military!

Wrath of Kahn?

[Aardor]

I admit that I find most of Winnow's posts to be idiotic, but once you dig through all of the manure, you "might" find that there are some facts included. Sometimes it is pure crap, but not always. If we all just dismiss each other's posts as pure bullshit as soon as it disagrees with our own point of view, what do we become?

You are generally right about dismissing someones, I just don't believe what you said covers Winnows opinions.

To further point out why:

Markets tend not to like socialist presidents. You're starting to go a little blind politically with your liberal fanaticism

"Citigroup rescue and Obama economic team picks propel stocks. Dow sees its biggest two-session point gain ever and biggest two-session percentage gain in 21 years."
http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/24/markets ... 2008112415

I dunno, but "socializing" another bank, and Obama's plans for the economy seem to be liked by the Markets. Or is this attributed to something else, Winnow?



Here's an article from Slate which I thought was very good: http://www.slate.com/id/2205186/ . It compares the current economic crisis to that of 1929, and points out how completely different the situations are. Notably, this is the only article about the current economic crisis I have seen which mentioned the 1987 stock market crash. The only other time I have heard 1987 mentioned was by Winnow, when he was correctly trying to point out that the one day loss was not nearly as big as it seemed, given other crashes of the market. I feel the slate article points out a good deal of the fearmongering by CEO's, banks, the media, etc, and how they have caused us to be equate a recession to a depression.

[Gzette]

I think it's gotten to the point that nobody has any clue what is going on. I never understood why the markets rise when someone names the successor to a prominent position like the FED or Sec. of Treasury. I know the stock market guys look to these announcements for "stability" -- IE a reason to buy -- but that never made much sense to me, when often people have no clue what this person will do.

Another thought: you know who the big winner is in this whole mess? Me.

I've been financially irresponsible for years. I have no stock and no 401(k). I graduated recently and managed to get a steady job, which is in no threat of disappearing.

So I've lost nothing, my gas expenditures were halfed (which is good because I drive about 60 miles each day total), and now people are talking about deflation "fears". For me, its deflation awesomeness. I'm getting an inadvertent pay raise. I'm also considering buying stock for the first time ever. GM stock was $50 a share recently a few years ago. Today its like $3. It was $1.70 last week. If I had gotten off my ass like I had intended, I already would've doubled my money. A $100 investment in Ford Motor Company right now would likely lead to a huge profit in 5 years (?) as long as the company stays afloat. If it doesn't, $100 bucks ain't the end of the world.

I say, buy GM and Ford before Dec. 6. That's when the auto execs come back to Washington, and a likely time for a bailout deal to be inked. Just don't buy too big. A jump from $3 to $20 a share seems feasible over a few years and is what a 700% profit?

[Forthe]

Clinton "balanced the budget" by raising taxes. He also grew the national debt by around 2 Trillion dllars.....GWB has raised it by about 3.5 while in a war...and yet you accuse GWB of being the most fiscally irresponsible president in history. What you are, in reality, is blind to the fact that the ONLY thing that is going to change is that you will pay more taxes under Obama while spending and borrowing goes up. Of course with all those tax increases and the reduced military spending, he might be able to proclaim his victory in balancing the budget again. Yay for us!

US National Debt
01/20/1993 : $4,188,092,107,183.60
01/22/2001 : $5,728,195,796,181.57 : +$1,540,103,688,997.97 : +37%
11/21/2008 : $10,655,468,648,978.07 : +$4,927,272,852,796.5 : +86%

US GDP
1992 - $6,337,700,000,000
2000 - $9,817,000,000,000 : +$3,479,300,000,000 : +55%
2007 - $13,807,500,000,000 : +$3,990,500,000,000 : +41%
(Don't see 2008 numbers yet but there wasn't much growth)

Debt % GDP
1992 : 66%
2000 : 58%
2008 : ~77%

The important thing to note here is under Clinton GDP easily outpaced debt growth while under Bush the debt growth has dwarfed GDP growth. Debt isn't a bad thing if you are out growing it, but in reverse it will destroy you. Near 80% GDP is way too high.

If anyone was blind to the facts here Kilmoll it is you.

[Winnow]

Scientists have always been pawns of the military!

Wrath of Kahn?

Good job Bubba!

[Gzette]

I'm also considering buying stock for the first time ever. GM stock was $50 a share recently a few years ago. Today its like $3. It was $1.70 last week. If I had gotten off my ass like I had intended, I already would've doubled my money. A $100 investment in Ford Motor Company right now would likely lead to a huge profit in 5 years (?) as long as the company stays afloat. If it doesn't, $100 bucks ain't the end of the world.

So I did buy 30 shares both Ford and GM Wednesday morning. Made $50 by the end of the day.

[Aslanna]

US electronics retailer Circuit City is to close after failing to reach a deal with its creditors and lenders, with the loss of 30,000 jobs.

Liquidators will now sell off the firm's assets. The announcement comes two months after the firm was forced to seek bankruptcy protection.

Some 567 Circuit City stores will now shut for the last time. About 155 stores had already closed in December.

Circuit City vice chairman James Marcum said the decision was "regrettable".

[Fairweather Pure]

I'll be keeping a close eye on my local CC for sales.

[Tyek]

I just got a my end of year bonus statement.

It was a very very happy day

[Tyek]

I'll be keeping a close eye on my local CC for sales.

They closed the ones around here and I did get some good deals, like a computer for 250 bucks on the second to last day, but I was surprised at how high they jacked up the prices before the discounts. I bought Fallout when it was 20% off so it was pretty good, but on most items there was very little in the way of deals

Even up to the last week most of the DVD deals sucked. They moved most DVD to $21.99 then had 30% off when you could go to Target or Walmart and buy the DVD for $9.99.

[Fairweather Pure]

The big difference is that most of the inventory from the last round of closeouts was shipped to other stores. This time, there's no place to ship them! Everything must go!

We should start a new thread so people can post any good deals they get.

[Boogahz]

They closed the ones around here and I did get some good deals, like a computer for 250 bucks on the second to last day, but I was surprised at how high they jacked up the prices before the discounts. I bought Fallout when it was 20% off so it was pretty good, but on most items there was very little in the way of deals

Even up to the last week most of the DVD deals sucked. They moved most DVD to $21.99 then had 30% off when you could go to Target or Walmart and buy the DVD for $9.99.

I was talking to a friend that worked at CompUSA when they were getting rid of inventory. It sounds like CC is doing the same thing they did. They didn't raise the prices, they just priced the items with the real price instead of the already discounted one, and then they took the "closeout discounts" off of that price.

[Fairweather Pure]

I stopped into the local Circut City and it was pretty tame. 10% off dosen't mean shit when everything is 30% more expensive anyway. They had the TV my friend wanted to buy for $2,888. We went down the street to Best Buy and they had the same set for $2,100.

It was interesting seeing the 360 game isle packed with people and no one in the PS3 isle. Btw, both games I was looking for were also cheaper at Best Buy.

[Aslanna]

I stopped into the local Circut City and it was pretty tame. 10% off dosen't mean shit when everything is 30% more expensive anyway. They had the TV my friend wanted to buy for $2,888. We went down the street to Best Buy and they had the same set for $2,100.

It was interesting seeing the 360 game isle packed with people and no one in the PS3 isle. Btw, both games I was looking for were also cheaper at Best Buy.

Gee. Wonder why Circuit City went out of business...

[Fairweather Pure]

Gee. Wonder why Circuit City went out of business...

I must've heard people say that a dozen times within the store as they were looking for deals.

[Xyun]

If you missed Jon Stewart last night he did a great bit on the economy and the stimulus package. I posted the video here.

[Bubba Grizz]

My wife was informed recently that they are moving the entire office to Arizona within the next 6-8 months. The highly recommend relocating but that really isn't an option for us. She's already putting out resume's even though there is a promise of a nice severence package if she sticks it out.
She works for Amex Assurance and does the compliance aspect of it. She is the one responsible for all the fine print on certain products like Death and Dismemberment. If you buy a plane ticket with you American Express card and you end up losing a leg on that flight and you have that product on your card, you get paid.
Such is the economy now. I have no fear though because Obama will save us.

[Xyun]

I sure hope so. Nonetheless he was a better option than the alternative. My previous job I was making over $25/hr. Now I've applied and sent my resume out to several jobs, 40-50 in the last few weeks, that pay much much less and haven't even landed an interview. I'm at the point where I will have to sell my car and buy a cheaper car and use the extra money to get through the rest of my lease. I'm guaranteed a job this summer for 2 months out in Vegas, and I'm using that as a last resort. I have to find something soon though.

[Bubba Grizz]

Vegas is fun. I have a speaking engagement there in July at Caesars.

[Winnow]

My wife was informed recently that they are moving the entire office to Arizona within the next 6-8 months. The highly recommend relocating but that really isn't an option for us.

Arizona is a paradise! There's plenty of cheeseheads and other midwest peeps out here that have escaped the tundra. While there are lots of Cardinal fans, the Vikings still had more fans in the stands than local Cardinals fans here. It sucked.

There's craploads of houses available to buy here for cheap as well with all the foreclosures.

[Funkmasterr]

My wife was informed recently that they are moving the entire office to Arizona within the next 6-8 months. The highly recommend relocating but that really isn't an option for us.

Arizona is a paradise! There's plenty of cheeseheads and other midwest peeps out here that have escaped the tundra. While there are lots of Cardinal fans, the Vikings still had more fans in the stands than local Cardinals fans here. It sucked.

There's craploads of houses available to buy here for cheap as well with all the foreclosures.

That's because Minnesota > Arizona.