Does Palin win the VP debate if...

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » October 2, 2008, 8:43 pm

And if you think they are the same thing after reading Sueven's post... You truly have the blinders on too tight. You know you can just admit that you threw crap out there based on nothing like you always do instead of keep trying to prove that you weren't "wrong".

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » October 2, 2008, 8:46 pm

Wow, I didn't realize that about the (Big Beef)Supreme Court. Thanks for the info. Apparently, I have been ignorant about how close it has been to getting overturned.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 2, 2008, 9:59 pm

Christ, the democrat fear mongers are hard at work with Roe v Wade.

Many Republicans that vote for their party don't agree with their stance on abortion. It's ONE issue. Can't vote based on one issue. If they were stupid enough to overturn RvW they'd have half of their own party pissed at them. The fundys can't win an election alone. It would destroy the Republican party.

Don't worry about it. It's not going to happen. Women will get their abortions. They can encourage people to be pro life, they can't make it mandatory even if all members of the supreme court were pro life.

Size of the Court

The United States Constitution does not specify the size of the Supreme Court; instead, Article III of the Constitution gives Congress the power to fix the number of Justices. Originally, the total number of Justices was set at six by the Judiciary Act of 1789. As the country grew geographically, the number of Justices steadily increased to correspond with the growing number of judicial circuits. The court was expanded to seven members in 1807, nine in 1837 and ten in 1863. In 1866, however, Congress wished to deny President Andrew Johnson any Supreme Court appointments, and therefore passed the Judicial Circuits Act, which provided that the next three Justices to retire would not be replaced; thus, the size of the Court would eventually reach seven by attrition. Consequently, one seat was removed in 1866 and a second in 1867. In the Circuit Judges Act of 1869, the number of Justices was again set at nine (the Chief Justice and eight Associate Justices), where it has remained ever since. President Franklin D. Roosevelt attempted to expand the Court (see Judiciary Reorganization Bill of 1937); his plan would have allowed the President to appoint one new, additional justice for every justice who reached the age of seventy but did not retire from the bench, until the Court reached a maximum size of fifteen justices. Ostensibly, this was to ease the burdens of the docket on the elderly judges, but it was widely believed that the President's actual purpose was to add Justices who would favor his New Deal policies, which had been regularly ruled unconstitutional by the Court. This plan, referred to often as the Court Packing Plan, failed in Congress. The Court, however, moved from its opposition to Roosevelt's New Deal programs, rendering the President's effort moot. In any case, Roosevelt's long tenure in the White House allowed him to appoint eight Justices to the Supreme Court (second only to George Washington) and promote one Associate Justice to Chief Justice.[7]

If something kooky happened, the liberal congress would appoint more justices during the following president's term after the current president crashed and burned for allowing Roe v Wade to be overturned.

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » October 2, 2008, 10:10 pm

It's a party of maverix

Joe SixPack and Hockeymom are the raid targets for tonight. And how about work ethnic? Hahaha I love this woman.

-Fucking East Coast States, controlling Alaska. She's fighting the puppeteers.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » October 2, 2008, 10:17 pm

Let's get this out of the way first - I don't believe, so far, that Palin is doing as badly as she could have done.

That said, SHE MAKES ME WANT TO GOUGE OUT MY EYEBALLS WITH THE WAY SHE FUCKING TALKS!

For fuck sake, you'd think she would talk professionally. I seriously cringe every time she talks. Nobody has ever made me feel this listening to them, ever.

Unsurprisingly, Palin is barely answering questions but instead going back to talking points.

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » October 2, 2008, 10:32 pm

Oh God, on the environment question she's fucking tanking. Hahahah

Siji · Post by **Siji** » October 2, 2008, 10:49 pm

Friggin' hilarious.. I'm predicting what Palin is going to say before she says it. I should make a drinking game, I'd be totally sober.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » October 2, 2008, 10:52 pm

She's falling apart!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 2, 2008, 11:06 pm

She's doing fine. You're fooling yourselves if you think otherwise. (remember what I've said about preaching to the choir...democrats like to circle jerk with themselves about how they think things are instead of considering how it will affect the election) Good debate so far with 25 minutes left.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » October 2, 2008, 11:12 pm

SAY IT AIN'T SO, JOE!

Siji · Post by **Siji** » October 2, 2008, 11:12 pm

She is doing fine, considering what was expected.

But if the bitch winks at me again I'm going to reach through the TV and rip out her throat.

She didn't have any major fuck-ups that I noticed, but she didn't do very well answering questions and relied way too much on talking points. If I were a republican supporter though, that would be fine. She survived and didn't do any damage that will need to be fixed.

Other than her FUCKING TALKING AND VOICE. Say it ain't so Joe!

Christ.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » October 2, 2008, 11:13 pm

The vice presidential candidate is doing shout outs during a national debate?

Really?

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » October 2, 2008, 11:13 pm

HOLY FUCK, a shoutout!!!!! Yeeee haw Charlie, turn on the tay-vay, Sarah's passing out extra credit!

Siji · Post by **Siji** » October 2, 2008, 11:23 pm

She fucked up bringing up trying to trump Biden on family. His story is going to touch women a fuck of a lot more than a special needs child that she uses as a trophy.

Everytime Palin or McCain say maverick, take a drink.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 2, 2008, 11:27 pm

Here's where you screw up. You've harped nonstop about how bad she is, how she screws up...and you do that to people still deciding...so they watch the debate and see she isn't anywhere near as bad as you've been ranting. You lose votes that way. They come out thinking she's much much better than what you've been saying. Bad strategy.

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » October 2, 2008, 11:31 pm

I'm not trying to convince anyone here Winnow. I'm free to talk to people about how bad she is. Out in public, I smile and say, "Just make sure you vote", because let's be honest, you're not going to convince many people of your viewpoint. They're going to feel you pushing. But here at VV? No one is going to change this late in the game, so I'll talk honestly about how much of an idiot she is.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 2, 2008, 11:38 pm

Kaldaur wrote:I'll talk honestly about how much of an idiot she is.

If she was the definition for an idiot in this world, we'd be in a lot better shape.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » October 2, 2008, 11:39 pm

Anyone that would go from undecided to decided in favor of McCain/Palin after this debate is an idiot. Not because of who they're voting for, but because there was absolutely NOTHING that she was better than Biden on. She BARELY answered ANY of the questions posed to her. So if you're ignorant enough that talking points work on you, then best of luck to you.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 2, 2008, 11:42 pm

They're all talking points. I could edit the debate to half as long and all you would hear from Biden would be:

"4 billion in tax cuts to oil companies." "4 billion in tax cuts to oil companies." "4 billion in tax cuts to oil companies." "4 billion in tax cuts to oil companies." "4 billion in tax cuts to oil companies." "4 billion in tax cuts to oil companies." "4 billion in tax cuts to oil companies." "4 billion in tax cuts to oil companies." "4 billion in tax cuts to oil companies." "4 billion in tax cuts to oil companies." "4 billion in tax cuts to oil companies." "4 billion in tax cuts to oil companies." "4 billion in tax cuts to oil companies."

Biden is basically changing most of his views to be VP.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » October 2, 2008, 11:42 pm

An easy Biden win. Palin is a lying, condescending moronic retard and it showed.

Not at all surprising that Palin/McCain continued the "let's lie to everyone's faces and hope morons like Winnow swallow it whole". Obviously, to their supporters, it works. Not too sure about independents though.

Funny how she attributed "City on a hill" to Reagan, she should probably brush up on her history a little bit for the next interview.

Tried the whole "omg my downs syndrome baby" and was suitably school by Biden. Her talking points were fucking painful to watch, I doubt the average independent will fall for such shallow tactics. They were ridiculous. Also, it's pretty funny seeing the Republicans trying desperately to steal Obama's policies as they realise just how fucked they are.

My initial impression is that it was a total and utter cakewalk for Biden. It's funny when a Republican complains about "early withdrawal" in Iraq when its 2008. Talk about living in a fantasy world. Also, awesome work by Biden to put the retarded "MAVERICK LOL" claim to bed. Owned.

Biden is not "basically changing most of his views to be VP", you have no idea what you're talking about. Shock horror. What a dumbass thing to say.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » October 2, 2008, 11:48 pm

I don't like how she compares her family to the average American family. The average American family doesn't have a governor in it. I know mine doesn't. There's lots of other things her family doesn't have to worry about that the average American family does.

Kaldaur · Post by **Kaldaur** » October 2, 2008, 11:54 pm

Winnow wrote:
Kaldaur wrote:I'll talk honestly about how much of an idiot she is.
If she was the definition for an idiot in this world, we'd be in a lot better shape.

She's not the definition of an idiot for this world. She's the definition of an idiot for a Vice Presidential nomination. There is a huge difference. It sounds like you're buying into the Joe Six-pack bullshit she's spewing to try and convince people we need another good ol' boy or girl in the White House. We don't.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 3, 2008, 12:00 am

Half the time Biden was staring at Palin it looked like he wanted to tap her ass.

Nick · Post by **Nick** » October 3, 2008, 12:03 am

Unsurprisingly, as Winnow starts to realise his ticket of choice goes down the toilet, he resorts to nonsense. Nothing new, but funny as fuck to watch. Talk about a bridge to nowhere!

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » October 3, 2008, 1:03 am

Early polling data among undecided voters shows a huge victory for Biden. I don't think most people (non yokel, retards) are buying what she's selling. The only people that think she did well are her base, which does her and McCain no good.

My take is that she came off as as a decidedly unpresidential, bitchy, lying, uninformed talking suit that recited the script she spent the last several days learning rather than answering questions. None of her answers were worth the air it took to push them past her vocal cords.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » October 3, 2008, 1:12 am

Biden 8

Palin 6.5

She did lightyears better than I expected. It's amazing how well someone will do when you have zero expectations.

At the beginning, she was visually nervous but got better as the debate moved along. I was annoyed that she kept maneuvering every question to her comfort zone. Biden stuck to the issues and you can tell he's ready to step in as the President if required. Palin looked like she was a McCain cheerleader and little more. I could get her same answers from any informed voter, which would also include the shadiness of some of the details. In short, she sounded like a hockey mom while Biden sounded Presidential.

She really lost it for me whaen she basically said "Hey, I'm not really going to answer your questions. Instead I'm just going to do my own thing". I thought that was going to be the beginning of her implosion, but I was wrong.

Oh yeah, the shout out was incredible.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » October 3, 2008, 2:14 am

I was impressed somewhat by her debating skills. She is a good speaker, when there are no interruptions. It all lead back to thumb-pointing though. She dodged everything, and quite well at times. She said nothing. None of her opinions were her own. Maverick! Maverick! Bullshit.

How many mavericks think we should be at war with Iraq? Granted, Palin did not fall apart...however, she did nothing to make herself even appear something more than worthless.

Biden played a good game. I figured he would be condescending. Must have been tempting though!

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 3, 2008, 2:55 am

Biden did a good job. He didn't correct Palin when she gave the wrong name for the U.S. commander in Iraq and didn't talk down to her at all.

The part where he choked up talking about his son seemed a little staged but otherwise he did a good job. I don't think he agrees with Obama on many issues. He's there to get votes. He said he'd never be a VP, said he'd run on McCain's ticket...pretty much is worse than McCain in flip flopping his views and selling out to take the VP spot but no one seems interested in that and it's all about votes.

Palin did well imo but her impact, both positive or negative, isn't enough to change the outcome of this election.

McCain has several things working against him. There's been two straight terms of a Republican in office. Like clockwork, this country likes to flip back and forth between R and D presidents. The only question usually is if it's one or two terms. Reagan, Reagan, Bush Sr being the exception. He also has to follow a bad president from his own party. While most people acknowledge that McCain is different from Bush and has been in the past, it's a little late in the game for McCain. He really does look ancient and worn out. Economic times are also shitty and although that's not the Republican's fault, it doesn't matter when it comes to voters. Its easy to lob accusations and promises from the sidelines like a fresh candidate can. People love it. They want change and don't care to look too deeply into what that change will be.

For a Republican to win in 2008, they'd have to be exceptional, not just a good candidate. Maybe a McCain of eight years ago could have done it.

Obama, almost by default and not necessarily because of the man himself, has this election in hand. There very well could be an October surprise of some sort. Any kind of world event or terrorist event would swing a lot of votes Mccain's way. Obama really isn't prepared to be Commander in Chief. It doesn't matter if he surrounds himself with a capable military and foreign affairs staff, in time of crisis, people will look directly at the top person.

In conclusion, it's down to Obama hoping for no October surprise. Personally, I don't want one. Our country is pretty fucked up atm. I don't want to see Obama throwing tea parties for terrorist leaders ala Jessie Jackson, trying to get votes.

Markulas · Post by **Markulas** » October 3, 2008, 3:24 am

Anyone else sick of how "expectations" affect people's perceptions of debates? There shouldn't be a negative expectation in the first place. When viewing the debate you should see each candidate as equally capable of answering a question. They're both applying for the same job.

Next debate is coming up on Tuesday then this debate will be long forgotten. Republicans could have used a major Biden gaffe.

Aabidano · Post by **Aabidano** » October 3, 2008, 8:48 am

I watched the first half of the debate and like both candidates positions less than I did previously. From a least harm perspective I'm beginning to lean towards Obama, primarily because what he proposes will never fly. At best he'll be ineffective and spend 3 years backpedaling.

Listening to Bill Clinton speak in the run up, I'd vote for him (as opposed to voting against the other guy).

*Edit -

Nick wrote:Biden is not "basically changing most of his views to be VP"

He certainly is. Obama's there to bring in one segment, Biden another. Biden is Obama's Cheney and will be pulling the strings that make Obama dance if he's elected.

Rather than the Palin vs. Obama race the media is portraying this to be it's (functionally) a Biden vs. McCain race.

Bubba Grizz · Post by **Bubba Grizz** » October 3, 2008, 9:25 am

Speaking as an undecided who watched last night I can say a few things.
1: I didn't think she did all that bad over all. Not having heard her speak before and after reading the posts here I was expecting something much worse like USA Americans. I agree however that I got tired and kind of annoyed at listening to her talk. I was really put off by the way she deflected direct questions to something else.

2: Having never heard Biden either I have to say I was very impressed. I like his cander and ability to say things straight out.

3: I think a lot of people here already had their minds set to hate Palin no matter what she said. She could have done an excellent job and it would still smell like shit to these people.

4: I wish they could take the best of both camps and put them together to make something useful. I liked a lot of what both sides had to say but the fact that hit me the hardest was the money for 3 weeks in Iraq is more than what has been spent on Afganistan in the last 6.5 years. I didn't know that.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » October 3, 2008, 9:53 am

Funkmasterr wrote:I'm fine with stem cell research as long as it isn't fetal. I don't have a long drawn out reason to give you as to why, it just doesn't sit right with me, much like cloning doesn't sit right with me either.

I seriously do not understand this. Fertility clinics destroy them anyway. You prefer their destruction with no benefit to their destruction with benefits? I you had to die would you choose to go out the hero or the nobody?

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » October 3, 2008, 10:01 am

Forthe wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:I'm fine with stem cell research as long as it isn't fetal. I don't have a long drawn out reason to give you as to why, it just doesn't sit right with me, much like cloning doesn't sit right with me either.
I seriously do not understand this. Fertility clinics destroy them anyway. You prefer their destruction with no benefit to their destruction with benefits? I you had to die would you choose to go out the hero or the nobody?

I don't know. I'm not a organ donor, either. When I die I want to be left the fuck alone.

That and to be honest it kinda creeps me out.

Spang · Post by **Spang** » October 3, 2008, 10:07 am

I used to think that if I was ever Pope and I died, I wouldn't want to be dragged around town like the Stanley Cup, but then I realized, it wouldn't matter. I'd be dead.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » October 3, 2008, 10:19 am

Winnow wrote:Christ, the democrat fear mongers are hard at work with Roe v Wade.

Many Republicans that vote for their party don't agree with their stance on abortion. It's ONE issue. Can't vote based on one issue. If they were stupid enough to overturn RvW they'd have half of their own party pissed at them. The fundys can't win an election alone. It would destroy the Republican party.

Don't worry about it. It's not going to happen. Women will get their abortions. They can encourage people to be pro life, they can't make it mandatory even if all members of the supreme court were pro life.

If something kooky happened, the liberal congress would appoint more justices during the following president's term after the current president crashed and burned for allowing Roe v Wade to be overturned.

It was very nearly overturned in 92. You need to look at which justices will likely be retiring or dying. All the pro-abortion justices are old. 3/4 of pro-life justices are young. If McCain wins he will most certainly replace one of the pro-abortion justices, most likely more than one. A couple of young pro-life justices and RvW is down for a couple of decades at least.

Of course your next argument will be that the Dem congress will block any pro-life appointment but Thomas was confirmed by a senate with a strong Dem majority, stronger than they are like to have in Jan. Thomas basically refused to state his views by claiming ignorance.

Pro-Abortion:
Stevens 88
Souter 69
Ginsburg 75
Breyer 70
Kennedy 72*

Pro-Life:
Roberts 53
Scalia 72
Thomas 60
Alito 58

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » October 3, 2008, 10:27 am

Palin beat expectations, Biden beat Palin. Biden was smart in keeping a low key. No news is good news for Obama. Palin stopped or paused the negative storyline she had created in her interviews.

They single biggest thing Palin does that irritaites me is replacing periods with "and also". The woman seriously needs to learn how to end one sentence and start another.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » October 3, 2008, 10:29 am

US election laws need to be changed to force a presidential candidate to select a VP that is from the opposing party. The only good thing that may come from Nobama is that in 2 years the Dem Congress will get their asses handed to them and Republicans will control it again......or of course his asinine shit could start a revolution in the US.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » October 3, 2008, 10:31 am

Forthe wrote:They single biggest thing Palin does that irritaites me is replacing periods with "and also". The woman seriously needs to learn how to end one sentence and start another.

I did notice a few things like this that bugged me, but she's far more than enough of a milf for me to forgive her for it.

Xatrei · Post by **Xatrei** » October 3, 2008, 10:36 am

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:...or of course his asinine shit could start a revolution in the US.

I'd welcome a revolution, and if it ever happened (not that it will), I don't think you would be too keen on the outcome.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » October 3, 2008, 11:25 am

Was I the only one that caught the 'NOOK-YA-LER'? She must have bungled 'nuclear' 8 or so times.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » October 3, 2008, 11:57 am

Aabidano wrote:
Nick wrote:Biden is not "basically changing most of his views to be VP"
He certainly is. Obama's there to bring in one segment, Biden another. Biden is Obama's Cheney and will be pulling the strings that make Obama dance if he's elected.

I agree. He's always been my favorite candidate and seals up the swing state of PA. He's genuine and everything he said last night was on target. He could have (and maybe should have) really killed Palin on the question deflection, particularly on the economy questions.
All she needed to do was show posture, sadly, and she did do that.
I also thought the moderator sucked a bag of dicks. It was obvious that she felt pressure not to get Palin to return to the question at hand.

Was I the only one that caught the 'NOOK-YA-LER'? She must have bungled 'nuclear' 8 or so times.

heh, I was saying that to my wife each time she f'ed it up. It's amazing that it contiues after Bush. But hey, Bush won by a pretty large margin speaking like a schmuck.

The part where he choked up talking about his son seemed a little staged but otherwise he did a good job.

I don't think so. That's a pretty damn tragic occurance. I almost get chocked up thinking about what would happen if anything happened to my daughter.

"4 billion in tax cuts to oil companies." "4 billion in tax cuts to oil companies." "4 billion in tax cuts to oil companies." "4 billion in tax cuts to oil companies." "4 billion in tax cuts to oil companies." "4 billion in tax cuts to oil companies." "4 billion in tax cuts to oil companies." "4 billion in tax cuts to oil companies." "4 billion in tax cuts to oil companies." "4 billion in tax cuts to oil companies." "4 billion in tax cuts to oil companies." "4 billion in tax cuts to oil companies." "4 billion in tax cuts to oil companies."

Have to be honest, I don't know why he stuck to that point as it really didn't have impact the first time he said it. And can someone tell everyone speaking to the public that "wall street/main street" is f'ing obnoxious bs at this point? She doesn't have any clue about how we got into this mess. Just stop with the sound bite to nowhere.

For a Republican to win in 2008, they'd have to be exceptional, not just a good candidate. Maybe a McCain of eight years ago could have done it.

He should have. I would have voted for him over Gore. The party douched him even though he would have been a much better choice. Seeing him even engage in civility w/ Bush after the crap he pulled on him makes me disgusted.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » October 3, 2008, 12:12 pm

Chidoro wrote:I agree. He's always been my favorite candidate and seals up the swing state of PA. He's genuine and everything he said last night was on target. He could have (and maybe should have) really killed Palin on the question deflection, particularly on the economy questions.

Partisans on both sides make this mistake. They want their candidates to attack and attack hard. Attacking is great for your base but both bases are basically locked in at this point. The campaigns really only need to talk to the undecideds who react very differently to partisan attacks.

Chidoro · Post by **Chidoro** » October 3, 2008, 12:43 pm

I agree with you on that because being an attack dog doesn't necessarily look so good on tv but since it's the economy and how that is really the paramount concern from people these days, he should have tried to get her to talk her way out of the mess going on. He also needed to continually pound in the taxation issue. The reps just plain out and out lie about it and the point of middle class relief is not forced home.
main street to wall street and "i'm feeling it too" is not good enough an answer for people if the candidate is forced to face the issue.

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » October 3, 2008, 1:21 pm

anyone who smiles that much while speaking is obviously lying through their teeth. In her attempts to make Biden look like a condescending jerk...she managed to make herself look like one. I felt so alienated from her lastnight...like she has no grasp of the american family...mainly because she "says" she is that family...but her smiling through everything, and the fucken winking...take this shit serious, and maybe the public will take you seriously. 3rd party 4 lyfe!

It was weird, every time they showed just her closeup on the TV, my hand immediately went to my wallet to protect what's in it...I could sense she was staring down my earnings, knowing that if she gets in office, tax tax tax...because she only understands "families", not single incomes.

Also, like Cane said...is this clear indication that the entire Republican party is now replacing "NUCLEAR" with "NUCULEER"? Is this some stunt to make america and the world think that George Bush actually got it right for the last 8 years?

The nuclear thing is enough for me not to vote for McCain/Palin...our executive branch should be able to say the words of our countries official language.

Biden said it right...more than once. Biden wins debate by landslide.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » October 3, 2008, 1:52 pm

Also, just because you live in an energy producing state surrounded by Russians and Canadians, does not make you an expert on foreign diplomacy nor energy.

She didn't throw up though, so she has that going for her. The blinking and winking was a bit tiresome (and rather creepy).

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » October 3, 2008, 1:57 pm

I was a little concerned about her response to the VP power question. I don't think it's a good thing that she gave the impression that she'd go her own way if McCain died or had to resign.

While I have no issue with the way she presents herself for the most part, I do think that she is a tad too casual in the way she speaks considering the state our country is in. She could have still given off the vibe that she can relate while remaining a little more serious.

Biden would make a better president than Obama. If that happens, lets hope he's bullshitting about sticking to Obama's game plan and clones McCain as he would have before the sellout.

Sueven · Post by **Sueven** » October 3, 2008, 2:23 pm

Boring debate. Palin did fine, Biden won. No real change from status quo.

Winnow wrote:Many Republicans that vote for their party don't agree with their stance on abortion. It's ONE issue. Can't vote based on one issue. If they were stupid enough to overturn RvW they'd have half of their own party pissed at them. The fundys can't win an election alone. It would destroy the Republican party.

The Republican Party does not get to decide to overturn Roe v. Wade. The Supreme Court does. Do you honestly think that McCain would appoint a pro-choice justice? Because that's likely the only way that Roe v. Wade survives a McCain presidency, absent Stevens and Ginsburg somehow making it through to another Democratic president, which is unlikely.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » October 3, 2008, 2:25 pm

Yeah, I figure Biden would diverge from the Obama route if he were to wind up in power. Hell, after 30 someodd years in politics, one would develop their own agenda.

Palin would straight-up be a disaster. I have a feeling she would do her best to force her religious and social ideals as opposed to working towards fixing the problems that we face. And say goodbye to civil liberties for gay folks...

As to the tax breaks for families, well, those of us that are single get left out by either party. It makes sense, because families will usually represent the foundation of the voting public in the eyes of most candidates.

Kilmoll the Sexy · Post by **Kilmoll the Sexy** » October 3, 2008, 2:40 pm

Sueven wrote:Boring debate. Palin did fine, Biden won. No real change from status quo.

Winnow wrote:Many Republicans that vote for their party don't agree with their stance on abortion. It's ONE issue. Can't vote based on one issue. If they were stupid enough to overturn RvW they'd have half of their own party pissed at them. The fundys can't win an election alone. It would destroy the Republican party.
The Republican Party does not get to decide to overturn Roe v. Wade. The Supreme Court does. Do you honestly think that McCain would appoint a pro-choice justice? Because that's likely the only way that Roe v. Wade survives a McCain presidency, absent Stevens and Ginsburg somehow making it through to another Democratic president, which is unlikely.

And on the other hand you have the 2nd Amendment not surviving an Obama presidency.

cadalano · Post by **cadalano** » October 3, 2008, 2:43 pm

as has been explained before, one is a constitutional amendment, the other is a supreme court ruling. you don't understand the difference, walter

Does Palin win the debate if she manages not to curse, throw up, or fall down?