Nationalizing American corporations is...?

[Xyun]

Communism!

In the last two weeks we have seen BushCo not just bail out Fannie and Freddy, but effectively BUY AIG. Yes, you, the middle class tax payer who works hard for your money and probably live paycheck to paycheck, or slightly below or above your means, are now the proud owner of 79.9% of AIG. Congrats! And when will you see the profits roll in?

hahahahahahahahahahhah

never.

Why? Well this is Republican Communism - privatize the profit, socialize the debt. It is a fallacy to call it socialism because there are reasonable and moderate socialist views that have worked (in Europe and elsewhere) and will work if given a chance. Communism is the nationalization of major industries and companies. AIG was nationalized in order to save the entire economy for collapsing, that is how big that company is, that if it were to fail the entire economy would collapse, and it failed. And guess who now owns that debt? Me and you.

[masteen]

Where is Senator McCarthy when we need him?

[Tyek]

Because the wonderful Democrats had nothing to do with the buy outs. Republicans are also responsible for the situation that created all this turmoil, AIDS, World Hunger, and the fact that Tom Brady got hurt. Once the Democrats are in the White House all problems will immediately cease, world peace will occur and people will be able to drink alcohol all night without getting drunk.

Of course if none of those things happen, it will be because there are at least 2 Republicans in congress still!!

[Xyun]

Because the wonderful Democrats had nothing to do with the buy outs. Republicans are also responsible for the situation that created all this turmoil, AIDS, World Hunger, and the fact that Tom Brady got hurt. Once the Democrats are in the White House all problems will immediately cease, world peace will occur and people will be able to drink alcohol all night without getting drunk.

Of course if none of those things happen, it will be because there are at least 2 Republicans in congress still!!

Just saying...

[Tyek]

Xyun,

I am voting for Obama and I am hoping that 4 or 8 years from now you are saying to me, see I told you. I just don't expect the massive changes you do.

The President gets way to much credit and blame for things that happen in their terms. He/She does affect it, but to say it was strickly a Democratic or Republican thing is bullshit. I hate to break it to you, but those democrats that are here to help you are just as rich and obnoxious as the Republicans they are sitting by. They could care less about you, they want to get re-elected and if you get helped along the way great, but please do not think they really care more then any other group. They don't.

[Tyek]

And if I remember my dates correctly, Clinton presided during the Internet boom, which was also fueled with bad stock information, shady dealings and ultimately a massive collapse.

[Winnow]

Clinton set us up for a huge collapse. He ignored the tech bubble and was getting blow jobs instead of killing Bin Laden. I don't see how anyone could like that asshole. Rock on party presidents. Do some more lines. Look at me! I can snort coke and play the sax while taking credit for the dot.com boom!

[Xyun]

Xyun,

I am voting for Obama and I am hoping that 4 or 8 years from now you are saying to me, see I told you. I just don't expect the massive changes you do.

The President gets way to much credit and blame for things that happen in their terms. He/She does affect it, but to say it was strickly a Democratic or Republican thing is bullshit. I hate to break it to you, but those democrats that are here to help you are just as rich and obnoxious as the Republicans they are sitting by. They could care less about you, they want to get re-elected and if you get helped along the way great, but please do not think they really care more then any other group. They don't.

Hey I don't mind if you support Obama if you simply consider him the lesser of two evils, so long as you support him. I prefer to think of him as the ideal man for the job. All these posts may annoy some people, but if the litany of information garners one- just one vote from someone on this board then it will all have been worthwhile for me.

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

Sadly, Obama is NOT the man for the job. Would McCain be my ideal person? Probably not. I do sometimes wish we could scrap our entire government and start from scratch.

[Spang]

Sadly, Obama is NOT the man for the job.

Yes he is.

[Soreali]

Sadly, Obama is NOT the man for the job.

Yes he is.

No...He's not.

[Aardor]

Clinton set us up for a huge collapse. He ignored the tech bubble and was getting blow jobs instead of killing Bin Laden. I don't see how anyone could like that asshole. Rock on party presidents. Do some more lines. Look at me! I can snort coke and play the sax while taking credit for the dot.com boom!

You're getting Clinton confused with our current President as far as the coke thing goes.

[Aardor]

Sadly, Obama is NOT the man for the job.

Yes he is.

No...He's not.

Thanks for your informative response.

[Forthe]

Clinton set us up for a huge collapse. He ignored the tech bubble and was getting blow jobs instead of killing Bin Laden. I don't see how anyone could like that asshole. Rock on party presidents. Do some more lines. Look at me! I can snort coke and play the sax while taking credit for the dot.com boom!

You could blame Clinton for the telecom companies perhaps but the tech bubble mainly involved unregulated industries. He could have been yelling "Don't invest billions in Pets.com!!!" but other than that what role did the government have? There was was some book cooking but it was mostly based on people rushing to get in on the ground floor of the next big thing regardless of profitability or sound business plans.


As to the typical blame Clinton for bin Laden meme, you forget republicans were too fixated on blowjobs to care about terrorism back then.

In August 1998, President Clinton ordered missile strikes against targets in Afghanistan in an effort to hit Osama bin Laden, who had been linked to the embassy bombings in Africa (and was later connected to the attack on the USS Cole). The missiles reportedly missed bin Laden by a few hours, and Clinton was widely criticized by many who claimed he had ordered the strikes primarily to draw attention away from the Monica Lewinsky scandal. As John F. Harris wrote in The Washington Post

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/clinton.asp

[valryte]

And if I remember my dates correctly, Clinton presided during the Internet boom, which was also fueled with bad stock information, shady dealings and ultimately a massive collapse.

A massive collapse of one freaking sector of the economy and even then mostly a new type of company. While it was a collapse, I don't think it really even compares to this. We're seeing issues with Banks, Mortgage Lenders, Insurance, Housing, Automotive, Airlines, Trucking, on and on. On top of that all the companies that are purely in business due to these larger companies being in business. Take automotive. One goes down, it can take a tire manufacturer with it as well. A mortgage lender goes down, brokers go down. Housing goes down, builders, real estate agents, building supplies, construction workers, etc...And with the financial sector comes a credit crunch, which leads to less loans...and pretty much every company/person out there needs some sort of loan or another at some point in time. We're getting hit on all sides. So please, don't even come here trying to compare the collapse of pets.com to what we have going on here.

[Soreali]

Sadly, Obama is NOT the man for the job.

Yes he is.

No...He's not.

Thanks for your informative response.

Pot, meet kettle.

[Aardor]

Sadly, Obama is NOT the man for the job.

Yes he is.

No...He's not.

Thanks for your informative response.

Pot, meet kettle.

Thanks for your informative response.

[Forthe]

Sadly, Obama is NOT the man for the job. Would McCain be my ideal person? Probably not. I do sometimes wish we could scrap our entire government and start from scratch.

McCain's intelligence is questionable, has a volatile temperment and he is easily persuaded. His campaign took away his cell phone ffs because he would take the position of the last person he spoke to and go off message.

Just yesterday his campaign called Spain an adversary rather than admit McCain got confused in an interview.

If USAdians are dumb enough to elect republicans again you deserve what you get, just like you deserved the last 8 years.

[Aardor]

Sadly, Obama is NOT the man for the job. Would McCain be my ideal person? Probably not. I do sometimes wish we could scrap our entire government and start from scratch.

If USAdians are dumb enough to elect republicans again you deserve what you get, just like you deserved the last 8 years.

Seriously Forthe, fuck you. I did not vote for our current President in either election. I did not vote for a Republican Congress, and I never supported the bill they passed which took away the rights of Americans. I have donated to Obama's campaign on more than one occasion, and will be voting for him in the coming election. How do I deserve another Republican President, and how did I deserve the one we had for the last 8 years?

[Forthe]

Sadly, Obama is NOT the man for the job. Would McCain be my ideal person? Probably not. I do sometimes wish we could scrap our entire government and start from scratch.

If USAdians are dumb enough to elect republicans again you deserve what you get, just like you deserved the last 8 years.

Seriously Forthe, fuck you. I did not vote for our current President in either election. I did not vote for a Republican Congress, and I never supported the bill they passed which took away the rights of Americans. I have donated to Obama's campaign on more than one occasion, and will be voting for him in the coming election. How do I deserve another Republican President, and how did I deserve the one we had for the last 8 years?

Collectively, not individually. I feel for those 49% you not afraid of electing smart people (elitists!!!) but you are in the minority.

[Aardor]

Sadly, Obama is NOT the man for the job. Would McCain be my ideal person? Probably not. I do sometimes wish we could scrap our entire government and start from scratch.

If USAdians are dumb enough to elect republicans again you deserve what you get, just like you deserved the last 8 years.

Seriously Forthe, fuck you. I did not vote for our current President in either election. I did not vote for a Republican Congress, and I never supported the bill they passed which took away the rights of Americans. I have donated to Obama's campaign on more than one occasion, and will be voting for him in the coming election. How do I deserve another Republican President, and how did I deserve the one we had for the last 8 years?

Collectively, not individually. I feel for those 49% you not afraid of electing smart people (elitists!!!) but you are in the minority.

Yeah, it just rubs me the wrong way when I get lumped with the other 51%, especially because it seems to be the perception of non-USAdians that all of the US is of a like mind (at least from my experiences on internet message boards and internet games).

[Truant]

Sadly, Obama is NOT the man for the job. Would McCain be my ideal person? Probably not. I do sometimes wish we could scrap our entire government and start from scratch.

If USAdians are dumb enough to elect republicans again you deserve what you get, just like you deserved the last 8 years.

Seriously Forthe, fuck you. I did not vote for our current President in either election. I did not vote for a Republican Congress, and I never supported the bill they passed which took away the rights of Americans. I have donated to Obama's campaign on more than one occasion, and will be voting for him in the coming election. How do I deserve another Republican President, and how did I deserve the one we had for the last 8 years?

Collectively, not individually. I feel for those 49% you not afraid of electing smart people (elitists!!!) but you are in the minority.

Yeah, it just rubs me the wrong way when I get lumped with the other 51%, especially because it seems to be the perception of non-USAdians that all of the US is of a like mind (at least from my experiences on internet message boards and internet games).

Thanks for your informative response.

[Aardor]

If USAdians are dumb enough to elect republicans again you deserve what you get, just like you deserved the last 8 years.

Seriously Forthe, fuck you. I did not vote for our current President in either election. I did not vote for a Republican Congress, and I never supported the bill they passed which took away the rights of Americans. I have donated to Obama's campaign on more than one occasion, and will be voting for him in the coming election. How do I deserve another Republican President, and how did I deserve the one we had for the last 8 years?

Collectively, not individually. I feel for those 49% you not afraid of electing smart people (elitists!!!) but you are in the minority.

Yeah, it just rubs me the wrong way when I get lumped with the other 51%, especially because it seems to be the perception of non-USAdians that all of the US is of a like mind (at least from my experiences on internet message boards and internet games).

Thanks for your informative response.

You are welcome, sir.

Also, we should totally be able to imbed more than 5 quotes within each other.

[Fairweather Pure]

Those graphs make my stomach turn.

[Soreali]

You are welcome, sir.

Also, we should totally be able to imbed more than 5 quotes within each other.

I for one, totally concur with this.. See, two different views can agree on something!

[Canelek]

Yeah Forthe, don't lump me in with those martians either!

[Kilmoll the Sexy]

Actually, to non-morons those graphs show a lot more than "OMG Bush suxx0RS!"

You notice that all those hits took place at one time? Oh yea...the WTC attacks. Every graph on there shows a downturn at the end of Clinton's term which showed we already were headed to a recession...and if you refuse to take my words for it, you can go fucking google it and get it from economists. They also show upturns in the economy that were directly spurred by Bush and his incentives to just keep us afloat. The guy inherited some of the most massive economic tragedies in our history and managed to not have us in a 1920's type depression. You can rail his ass about the war, but he was not the root cause of any of the mess we have been in financially.

[Tyek]

Actually, to non-morons those graphs show a lot more than "OMG Bush suxx0RS!"

You notice that all those hits took place at one time? Oh yea...the WTC attacks. Every graph on there shows a downturn at the end of Clinton's term which showed we already were headed to a recession...and if you refuse to take my words for it, you can go fucking google it and get it from economists. They also show upturns in the economy that were directly spurred by Bush and his incentives to just keep us afloat. The guy inherited some of the most massive economic tragedies in our history and managed to not have us in a 1920's type depression. You can rail his ass about the war, but he was not the root cause of any of the mess we have been in financially.

Come on Killmoll, you know it is only because Republicans are evil that the WTC attacks occurred, hence the correlation still holds. If Democrats were the only ones in office we would be having tea with everyone and gas would be cheap since the world would have already switched to alternative fuels. Polution would be down, China would have already reformed and taken care of it's people. The Republicans are the DEBIL dammit.

[Tyek]

damn double posts.

Republicans cause all double posts too! It's a huge conspiracy.

[Tyek]

Xyun,

I am voting for Obama and I am hoping that 4 or 8 years from now you are saying to me, see I told you. I just don't expect the massive changes you do.

The President gets way to much credit and blame for things that happen in their terms. He/She does affect it, but to say it was strickly a Democratic or Republican thing is bullshit. I hate to break it to you, but those democrats that are here to help you are just as rich and obnoxious as the Republicans they are sitting by. They could care less about you, they want to get re-elected and if you get helped along the way great, but please do not think they really care more then any other group. They don't.

Hey I don't mind if you support Obama if you simply consider him the lesser of two evils, so long as you support him. I prefer to think of him as the ideal man for the job. All these posts may annoy some people, but if the litany of information garners one- just one vote from someone on this board then it will all have been worthwhile for me.

That's just it, I think if Obama and his crew would stop the repeated bashing, then they would actually win over more supporters. I doubt that your posts are changing anyone towards Obama, I think his supporters are firmly in place, but I think it does annoy the people you need to recruit. I wish they both would focus more on the issues and less on the blame game and smear tactics.

I know both are bashing, but since Obama has stated that he will not be business as usual, I think he could have made a VERY loud and clear message that he would not stoop to old school slander and speculation and instead focus on the goals and agendas of his campaign.

Just my thoughts of course.

[Siji]

Tell you what, when Obama releases a political ad that has the voice of a child saying "If McCain was president, I wouldn't have been born" we'll talk about how Obama is even in the same fucking universe as 'business as usual' as it pertains to John McCain.

I used to think that McCain wouldn't have been a bad choice. I would have planned on voting for him had it been between him and Clinton. But after seeing his true character, it blows my mind - seriously amazes me on a constant basis, that there are people that actually buy into his bullshit. And it disgusts me that I am grouped into the same category as these ignorant people because they live in the same country I do.

Palin on the cover of a magazine (Newsweek?) with a shotgun over her shoulder? Are you fucking kidding me? Where's the fucking rosary around her neck to complete the image?

[Tyek]

I haven't seen that ad, sounds terrible, guess I was just hoping Obama might actually be above the whole bullshit process that McCain, Kerry, Bush and the others always pull.

[Forthe]

I haven't seen that ad, sounds terrible, guess I was just hoping Obama might actually be above the whole bullshit process that McCain, Kerry, Bush and the others always pull.

Unfortunately, he may have won the high-minded mid-high information voters but by not hitting back he would have lost the "I want a fighter not a wimp" vote, lost low information voters and lost the election.

[Xyun]

Xyun,

I am voting for Obama and I am hoping that 4 or 8 years from now you are saying to me, see I told you. I just don't expect the massive changes you do.

The President gets way to much credit and blame for things that happen in their terms. He/She does affect it, but to say it was strickly a Democratic or Republican thing is bullshit. I hate to break it to you, but those democrats that are here to help you are just as rich and obnoxious as the Republicans they are sitting by. They could care less about you, they want to get re-elected and if you get helped along the way great, but please do not think they really care more then any other group. They don't.

Hey I don't mind if you support Obama if you simply consider him the lesser of two evils, so long as you support him. I prefer to think of him as the ideal man for the job. All these posts may annoy some people, but if the litany of information garners one- just one vote from someone on this board then it will all have been worthwhile for me.

That's just it, I think if Obama and his crew would stop the repeated bashing, then they would actually win over more supporters. I doubt that your posts are changing anyone towards Obama, I think his supporters are firmly in place, but I think it does annoy the people you need to recruit. I wish they both would focus more on the issues and less on the blame game and smear tactics.

I know both are bashing, but since Obama has stated that he will not be business as usual, I think he could have made a VERY loud and clear message that he would not stoop to old school slander and speculation and instead focus on the goals and agendas of his campaign.

Just my thoughts of course.

Sorry but American politics doesn't work that way. Sheeple vote with their frail emotions rather than their brains, which is precisely why negative campaigning is so potent and necessary by either side. How it came about can be debated, that it came about cannot. Consider that at least 45% of voters are going to vote for McCain despite everything that has happened. Do you honestly think those people are using their fucking brains? Do you honestly think a vote for McCain is in any fucking way intelligent???

[Tyek]

Do you honestly think a vote for McCain is in any fucking way intelligent???

Sure I do, if his agenda follows your personal beliefs then why would it not be? Is it better to vote for someone because the "smart people" told you too?

I happen to follow more of Obama's belief's, but definitely have some I do not agree with. Does that mean I am only the % smart where our belief's mirror one another? So I might be 50% smart 30% dumb and 20% unkinown since my values on those topics do not follow either?

I m excited by Obama's potential, some of that was based on him not playing the typical political game, then he went out and did it. I realize he is a politician and will not follow everything he says, I also realize unlike others here that he is not the Messiah. I truely hope he can turn the economy around, get us out of the war and actually meet and talk with both allies and enemies to bring some form of peace to this world, but I am not getting my hopes up.

[Spang]

I don't think anyone here has ever considered Obama to be the Messiah.

[Xyun]

Do you honestly think a vote for McCain is in any fucking way intelligent???

Sure I do, if his agenda follows your personal beliefs then why would it not be? Is it better to vote for someone because the "smart people" told you too?

I happen to follow more of Obama's belief's, but definitely have some I do not agree with. Does that mean I am only the % smart where our belief's mirror one another? So I might be 50% smart 30% dumb and 20% unkinown since my values on those topics do not follow either?

I m excited by Obama's potential, some of that was based on him not playing the typical political game, then he went out and did it. I realize he is a politician and will not follow everything he says, I also realize unlike others here that he is not the Messiah. I truely hope he can turn the economy around, get us out of the war and actually meet and talk with both allies and enemies to bring some form of peace to this world, but I am not getting my hopes up.

I think you misunderstood what I'm saying. A vote for McCain is the continuation of at least 90% of Bush policies. Bush policies have led us to where we are today. There are people who have benefited from those policies, but none of those people are posting on VV. I'm sorry but people who cannot learn from 8 years of failure are stupid.

[Avestan]

And if I remember my dates correctly, Clinton presided during the Internet boom, which was also fueled with bad stock information, shady dealings and ultimately a massive collapse.

A massive collapse of one freaking sector of the economy and even then mostly a new type of company. While it was a collapse, I don't think it really even compares to this. We're seeing issues with Banks, Mortgage Lenders, Insurance, Housing, Automotive, Airlines, Trucking, on and on. On top of that all the companies that are purely in business due to these larger companies being in business. Take automotive. One goes down, it can take a tire manufacturer with it as well. A mortgage lender goes down, brokers go down. Housing goes down, builders, real estate agents, building supplies, construction workers, etc...And with the financial sector comes a credit crunch, which leads to less loans...and pretty much every company/person out there needs some sort of loan or another at some point in time. We're getting hit on all sides. So please, don't even come here trying to compare the collapse of pets.com to what we have going on here.

Yeah. . .one sector of the economy. 2001 was tech. 2008 is debt markets. The tech collapse impacted a ton of different areas as well and the bubble was founded on just as much fantasyland as it was in 2001. Leveraging your company's assets at a 35:1 ratio to buy more bad debt is just as ridiculous (if not more so) than pets.com. This industry needs to crash and crash hard. I am embarrassed to have a govnerment that will prop up these firms. It pisses me off more than the Iraq War by far.

[Avestan]

Do you honestly think a vote for McCain is in any fucking way intelligent???

Sure I do, if his agenda follows your personal beliefs then why would it not be? Is it better to vote for someone because the "smart people" told you too?

I happen to follow more of Obama's belief's, but definitely have some I do not agree with. Does that mean I am only the % smart where our belief's mirror one another? So I might be 50% smart 30% dumb and 20% unkinown since my values on those topics do not follow either?

I m excited by Obama's potential, some of that was based on him not playing the typical political game, then he went out and did it. I realize he is a politician and will not follow everything he says, I also realize unlike others here that he is not the Messiah. I truely hope he can turn the economy around, get us out of the war and actually meet and talk with both allies and enemies to bring some form of peace to this world, but I am not getting my hopes up.

I think you misunderstood what I'm saying. A vote for McCain is the continuation of at least 90% of Bush policies. Bush policies have led us to where we are today. There are people who have benefited from those policies, but none of those people are posting on VV. I'm sorry but people who cannot learn from 8 years of failure are stupid.

That is a bullshit party line. McCain has almost never seen eye to eye with the Bush administration and has reached across party lines more times than anyone in the Senate. A vote for McCain is perhaps a once in a lifetime opportunity to have a moderate President who has earned respect on both sides and could get a ton of shit done because of it. A vote for Obama is a vote for a weak leader who will tow his party line. That is a shame because I think he had the opportunity to reform, but then buckled to get the campaign contributions and really buckled when he chose an old party hack like Biden as a sidekick.

[Tyek]

The one other thing I would like to point out Xyun is that you started this discussion by saying the bailouts are communism. I fully agree that they are bullshit, but this Wealth Distribution crap Obama has been mentioning is the one thing that gives me pause to be voting for him. (I would also expect they would need some form of Democratic support to commit to the bailout too).

I worked long and hard to get my family and my income, I pay wayyyyy to much in taxes and now for all my hard work, the Democrats want to take more from me and give it to people, some hard working, but some not. That is a clear form of Socialism, so be careful who you are calling out.

Obama is better then McCain, but not that much better. I really see little difference between the two parties, just a bunch of rich assholes looking for power.

[Avestan]

Oh, and 4 years ago, I made a bet against all you slavering lefties that Bush would win against Kerry and I won about $100 for VV.

To be clear about my politics, I am a fiscally conservative, socially liberal moderate who has a history of casting votes on boths sides of the isle. I would be happy to vote for Obama if he was running against anyone other than John McCain. I think McCain is the best Presidential candidate this country has seen in at least 20 years, and I would argue that his credentials are even better than Reagan's. In a country that is ridiculously divided by partisan politics (read this post), we finally have someone running for the top office who has built a fucking career on reaching across party lines to get shit done when NO ONE else is willing to do it. He makes unpopular decisions that he thinks are right, and usually, HE IS RIGHT.

I am happy to have two good candidates running for President this year, but Obama just looks frail compared to McCain and his record. I think it would truly be a shame for us to put another party line politician in the Oval Office when we have the opportunity to do something different.

In that spirit. Anyone who wants to bet me on the outcome of the election, with proceeds going to VV, please send me a PM with the amount. I bet McCain.

[cadalano]

I would agree with you if it was the year 2000 before McCain went through his monstrous idealogical metamorphasis

[Avestan]

That is quite simply a party line.

Immigration was after 2000 and did not toe the party line.
Campaign finance reform was after 2000 and did not toe the party line.

He led bipartisan efforts on both fronts when no one else (including the president) would step up to the plate. Do you expect him to lead a new initiative every 6 months? Obama has not led any. . .ever.

We can sit around and hope Obama will be different because he sounds like a decent guy in front of the camera, or we can vote for the guy who has proven that he is different by fighting his own party for his entire career. Seems like a simple choice for those of us who really do want something new.

[Winnow]

McCain had to change or he wouldn't be elected. He can change back after he's elected. It doesn't help anyone to have people with good ideas finishing in second place. Politicians have to play the election game. If Obama spoke what he really felt he wouldn't still be in the race. It fascinates me that the majority of people still don't understand this.

Get over it. Vote for McCain along with all the whacko votes he needs to get elected, and then he can go about his business.

Flip: get the votes
Flop: back to his original position, saving the U.S.

I personally don't feel good about voting in a community organizer full of fancy talk. McCain has gone up against the establishment. He can do it again. He's old. He doesn't have worry about his future in politics. He can shake things up and then enjoy the few years he has left in retirement. Obama will be sucking up to everyone he can to extend his career.

[Forthe]

Do you honestly think a vote for McCain is in any fucking way intelligent???

Sure I do, if his agenda follows your personal beliefs then why would it not be? Is it better to vote for someone because the "smart people" told you too?

I happen to follow more of Obama's belief's, but definitely have some I do not agree with. Does that mean I am only the % smart where our belief's mirror one another? So I might be 50% smart 30% dumb and 20% unkinown since my values on those topics do not follow either?

I m excited by Obama's potential, some of that was based on him not playing the typical political game, then he went out and did it. I realize he is a politician and will not follow everything he says, I also realize unlike others here that he is not the Messiah. I truely hope he can turn the economy around, get us out of the war and actually meet and talk with both allies and enemies to bring some form of peace to this world, but I am not getting my hopes up.

If you don't get elected it doesn't matter what your belief's are.

[Xyun]

It bothers me that people don't consider the history of all this. There is a pattern of regulation and deregulation that has existed in this country since at least the1920's. The Great Depression brought about massive reform and regulation by FDR. Those regulations were put in place precisely to prevent the same circumstances that led to depression. Since that time, those regulations have slowly eroded, and although both parties are responsible, deregulation is turbo-charged during Republican control.

A vast majority of people, regardless of party, agree that deregulation is the primary reason we are facing the crisis we are facing. Everything I have seen or read by experts regarding this crisis also suggests that this is much bigger than the dot com bubble or even the savings and loan scandal. People panicked to the point that Jim Cramer is yelling on the TV about preventing the Second Great Depression. I don't know how much stock to put into the hysteria because I don't have a massive portfolio or savings.

What I know is that I don't want my fucking tax money going to bailing out incompetent fucking CEOs and greedy fucking billionaires. That tax money should be used for social(ist) or military programs, NOT communism.

Also, this here is a blatant lie:

McCain has almost never seen eye to eye with the Bush administration

Avestan, I used to respect you, but this statement means that either you are so utterly fucking stupid that you honestly believe it, or that you are lying through your fucking teeth. I suspect the former which is very very very sad. I'm really stunned. This is classic conservatism: the blatant denial of reality.

Here is the truth from the horse's mouth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzX7vsdEybo

[Sirton]

Pox on Both Houses! It's moronic to blame this issue on a single party or person. Notice were those companies political money go too for example: #1 Dodd and #2 Obama, and there is abit of money going to ACORN aswell. Bush, Bill Clinton, Dems and Repubs in congress all hold some blame. This bailout is just another turn in the the ball rolling of the federal Government taking over every aspect of our lives. Even if this bail-out is needed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act

Simple You don't loan to people that can't pay you back.

Anyways just got my power back from Hurricane Ike, which Obama the Messiah, so blessed us with.

[Avestan]

It bothers me that people don't consider the history of all this. There is a pattern of regulation and deregulation that has existed in this country since at least the1920's. The Great Depression brought about massive reform and regulation by FDR. Those regulations were put in place precisely to prevent the same circumstances that led to depression. Since that time, those regulations have slowly eroded, and although both parties are responsible, deregulation is turbo-charged during Republican control.

A vast majority of people, regardless of party, agree that deregulation is the primary reason we are facing the crisis we are facing. Everything I have seen or read by experts regarding this crisis also suggests that this is much bigger than the dot com bubble or even the savings and loan scandal. People panicked to the point that Jim Cramer is yelling on the TV about preventing the Second Great Depression. I don't know how much stock to put into the hysteria because I don't have a massive portfolio or savings.

What I know is that I don't want my fucking tax money going to bailing out incompetent fucking CEOs and greedy fucking billionaires. That tax money should be used for social(ist) or military programs, NOT communism.

Also, this here is a blatant lie:

McCain has almost never seen eye to eye with the Bush administration

Avestan, I used to respect you, but this statement means that either you are so utterly fucking stupid that you honestly believe it, or that you are lying through your fucking teeth. I suspect the former which is very very very sad. I'm really stunned. This is classic conservatism: the blatant denial of reality.

Here is the truth from the horse's mouth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzX7vsdEybo

Xyun,

I never respected you because you have never, ever, said anything that isn't sraight from the assholes of the democratic left establishment in this country. Sorry bud, but you are so far from unbiased that I don't even know why I respond to your posts (I usually don't read them at all).

What we need to understand is that there REALLY ARE good ideas from both sides of the political fence (really). People who 100% support any party's actions are followers and I rarely listen to what they have to say. You can tr to spin things any way you want, but John McCain has consistently gone against the Republican establishment when he thought it was the right thing to do. He is the only politician in recent history from either side of the divide who has been willing to take unpopular stances in the face of big elections (President) because he thought they were the right choices. He has also shown a willingness to compromise to get things done (Immigration) and I think that is also a sign of someone who knows how to broker a deal.

I like Obama, and when McCain looked like his campaign was going to die in the primaries, I told everyone at the office (they are all democrats because I live in Northern Cal) that if McCain did not win the nomination, I would enthusiastically support Obama over any of the other Republican candidates, but I am thrilled to say that he pulled it off. In my short life, I have never been as excited about a candidate at any level as I am about John McCain. It is almost too bad the dems are not putting up John Kerry again, because it would be a steamroll, but I stand by my statements 100%.

Some of you guys should try to take a step back and think about which of these people you think would make a better coach, boss, mentor, or addvisor. Who you would trust more to do what is right despite huge amounts of pressure from all sides (domestic, international, corporate, environmental). I would argue that exactly one candidate actually has a record of standing up to those pressures. The other might be good, but I just do not see the determination and confidence that McCain has always had when I listen to Obama talk. Next to McCain, Obama sounds more and more like a slick politician standing next to someone who has made a career out of reaching across party lines to get shit done.

I just havea really hard time listening to people who ALWAYS post on one side of partisan issues. If you want my respect (you likely don't give a damn), tell me some things the Republicans have done right in the last 8 years (unbiased individuals will find some).

[Avestan]

Pox on Both Houses! It's moronic to blame this issue on a single party or person. Notice were those companies political money go too for example: #1 Dodd and #2 Obama, and there is abit of money going to ACORN aswell. Bush, Bill Clinton, Dems and Repubs in congress all hold some blame. This bailout is just another turn in the the ball rolling of the federal Government taking over every aspect of our lives. Even if this bail-out is needed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act

Simple You don't loan to people that can't pay you back.

Anyways just got my power back from Hurricane Ike, which Obama the Messiah, so blessed us with.

I do not blame the situation on anyone, but I do blame the solution. These banks should be allowed to crash into ash and dust in my opinion. I am now going to be paying for stupid mortgage mistakes everyone else made when I said no to taking loans that I knew I shouldn't. As a result, I saw average house prices skyrocket so that if I want to live within 10 miles of work, I need $1 million to buy something. So I rent. And now I am going to by paying other people's mortages by proxy. This is, by far, the biggest letdown I have had from this administration and from the last eight years. f you cannot tell, I am a fiscal conservative, and I feel betrayed by those in office.

2 examples of McCain leading bi-partisan efforts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipartisan ... Reform_Act
http://www.pewclimate.org/policy_center ... ummary.cfm

Here is a Washington Times article about McCain's bipartisan background:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/200 ... ipartisan/

With calls for change in Washington dominating the campaign, both Mr. Obama, the Democrats' presidential nominee, and Mr. McCain, his Republican opponent, have claimed the mantle of bipartisanship.

But since 2005, Mr. McCain has led as chief sponsor of 82 bills, on which he had 120 Democratic co-sponsors out of 220 total, for an average of 55 percent. He worked with Democrats on 50 of his bills, and of those, 37 times Democrats outnumber Republicans as co-sponsors.

Obama, as much as I would love to have dinner with the guy, HAS NO RECORD. I would love to vote for him in 8 years once he has one.

[Spang]

I don't understand why not having a record is such a bad thing.

Bush had a record...