Buy, Buy Bull Logo

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » September 15, 2008, 1:54 pm

So I got a text msg last night to the tone of, "Dude, you guys got bought by BoFa! lolz"

I suppose it is a good time to opt out of my employee stock purchase plan and polish the resume.... meh

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/15/news/co ... 2008091512

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Wall Street was a vastly different world on Monday, following one of the most harrowing days in the history of U.S. financial industry.

Lehman Brothers, one of the nation's oldest investment banks, filed for bankruptcy - the largest ever. Bank of America executed a bold and swift $50 billion takeover of Merrill Lynch. The fate of other brand-name financial institutions remained in doubt.

Anxiety was palpable on Monday. The Dow Jones industrial average plunged more than 2.5% just after the opening bell, before paring some of those losses.

Driving much of the fear was a decision by Lehman to file for bankruptcy under Chapter 11 with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of New York. Lehman, whose fate was in doubt for much of last week, made its intentions known shortly after midnight after talks aimed at saving the 158-year-old firm failed.

Lehman (LEH, Fortune 500) shares, which lost 94% of their value so far Monday, were nearly worthless after markets opened Monday.

Different Lehman divisions, including its profitable money management unit Neuberger Berman, offered reassurances to nervous clients. Still, both analysts and rating agencies slashed their assessment of the once mighty investment bank.

Lehman's endgame capped what proved to be a long weekend for top Wall Street executives and regulators, who held marathon talks to try to craft a rescue plan for the embattled investment bank.

Many had hoped a buyer would emerge, most notably the British bank Barclays or Bank of America. Instead, both suitors pulled out from the talks, with Bank of America (BAC, Fortune 500) instead entering merger talks with the brokerage giant Merrill Lynch (MER, Fortune 500). By early Monday, the two had announced that BofA had bought Merrill for $50 billion in stock.

Merrill, known for with its famous bull logo, has been an icon of Wall Street and investing in America. Still, billions in losses in the last year due to fallout in the U.S. mortgage market proved too much for the 94-year old firm.

Certainly, the disappearance of Merrill Lynch and Lehman will most certainly result in heavy job losses in the already hard-hit financial services industry.

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » September 15, 2008, 2:00 pm

I'll wager you'll be fine man. It's not like they have better trading systems and will just transfer the client data to them.

Post by **Sylvus** » September 15, 2008, 2:00 pm

The economy is doing great. Nothing to see here.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » September 15, 2008, 2:13 pm

Yeah.. My 401k has lost 20% this year (so far). And it wasn't exactly roses last year either. Things are absolutely fabulous!

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » September 15, 2008, 2:15 pm

Probably will not see too much activity until Q1 2009, since that is when the deal will close. This is still shocking. Hell, Merrill made it through the Great Depression with relative ease. Now, poor leadership has run a once proud Wall Street icon into the ground.

Hopefully, we get some stability soon. Our economy cannot afford another crash at this time. ><

Oddly enough, my 401K is fabulous, but that is because most of it is in Blackrock, which is solid.

cadalano · Post by **cadalano** » September 15, 2008, 2:39 pm

this is just what my nobel prize winning economist barber said would happen if you guys kept whining about the economy

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » September 15, 2008, 4:11 pm

I didn't say the economy was doing fine, I said that I suspected Canelek (As a Database Administrator at ML) would probably be fine from an employment standpoint.

Fairweather Pure · Post by **Fairweather Pure** » September 15, 2008, 4:16 pm

My wife and I put 40k in a private hedge fund that has been dishing out fantastic returns for the past year, despite the ugly outlook of the economy. My 401k is doing very well too. My wife's lost about 15% though.

Post by **Sylvus** » September 15, 2008, 4:42 pm

Ashur wrote:I didn't say the economy was doing fine, I said that I suspected Canelek (As a Database Administrator at ML) would probably be fine from an employment standpoint.

Oh, that wasn't in response to you, Ash. We must have hit submit at almost the same time.

It was more for any of the people who have said that our country's economy is in good shape.

Siji · Post by **Siji** » September 15, 2008, 4:48 pm

This is the "Change" the Republicans have been promising. Welcome to it.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » September 15, 2008, 4:51 pm

Exactly. All my dollars have lost so much value all I'm left with is change.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » September 15, 2008, 5:06 pm

Aslanna wrote:Exactly. All my dollars have lost so much value all I'm left with is change.

It is probably going to give up its recent gains if the Fed has to cut rates tomorrow. I serious case of economic whack-a-mole being played.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » September 15, 2008, 5:10 pm

Sylvus wrote:
Ashur wrote:I didn't say the economy was doing fine, I said that I suspected Canelek (As a Database Administrator at ML) would probably be fine from an employment standpoint.
Oh, that wasn't in response to you, Ash. We must have hit submit at almost the same time.

It was more for any of the people who have said that our country's economy is in good shape.

I'm interested in why you thought the thread was fitting of a smart ass comment about the economy? The reason I'm curious is the only person here with first hand knowledge of the events of what lead up to this happening seems to feel that it was due to poor leadership, which has nothing to do with whatever shape our economy is in.

miir · Post by **miir** » September 15, 2008, 5:29 pm

Poor leadership is usually good enough for most companies when the economy is booming.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » September 15, 2008, 5:32 pm

miir wrote:Poor leadership is usually good enough for most companies when the economy is booming.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » September 15, 2008, 5:45 pm

Sylvus is not far off. The Street is usually a pretty clear indicator of how well our economy is performing. We are in a capitalist society, after all....

Post by **Sylvus** » September 15, 2008, 5:48 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:I'm interested in why you thought the thread was fitting of a smart ass comment about the economy? The reason I'm curious is the only person here with first hand knowledge of the events of what lead up to this happening seems to feel that it was due to poor leadership, which has nothing to do with whatever shape our economy is in.

I'm interested in what fucking planet you live on.

The Dow is down over 500 points, in its 6th biggest point drop ever and the biggest since 9/11. Lehman's bankruptcy is the biggest in history.

CNN has some choice words on the situation...

Still, some analysts said that the stock selloff could have been worse, considering the depth of the problems.

"You have to throw out the history books because there's really nothing to compare this to," said Jim Dunigan, chief investment officer at PNC Advisors.

Art Hogan, chief market strategist for Jefferies & Co., said the magnitude of the financial industry fallout is unprecedented, and could only be compared to the Great Depression of the 1930s or the railroad bankruptcies of the 1800s.

"We've never witnessed this before," said Hogan. "There's no road map for this."

The developments for the three companies cemented for investors that the credit crisis is far from over, six months after the near-collapse and government rescue of Bear Stearns.

"The landscape has changed and a lot of the major players who were are no more, so of course people are panicked," said Stephen Leeb, president at Leeb Capital Management.

"But it's not the end of capitalism," he said. "This may usher in something worse than what we've seen in terms of the economy, but the companies left standing at the end of this will be OK."

Fox News is much more optimistic...

There will be an unseen participant at the meeting of the Federal Open Market Committee when it convenes Tuesday at 8:30 a.m.--an 800-pound gorilla named Lehman Brothers (LEH: 0.21, -3.44, -94.24%).

And, while the Wall Street chaos may dominate the discussion, the FOMC still has fundamentals with which it must deal: a drastic slowdown in the economy--exacerbated since it met last on Aug. 5--and on-again, off-again inflation threats. The ongoing credit and liquidity crunch may though overwhelm the numbers and force the FOMC into yet another rate cut.

Leading up to August meeting, the economic data while far from positive, was nowhere near as negative as its been in the last couple of weeks--and then, the FOMC did not have to deal with turmoil in the financial markets.

I'm sure that it's still very easy to get a tech job in Minnesota though, which is the true gauge of how things are going. Hold on a second, I've got the Bureau of Labor Statistics on the line...

The number of unemployed persons rose by 592,000 to 9.4 million in August, and the unemployment rate increased by 0.4 percentage point to 6.1 percent. Over the past 12 months, the number of unemployed persons has increased by 2.2 million and the unemployment rate has risen by 1.4 percentage points, with most of the increase occurring over the past 4 months. (See table A-1.)

What does the unemployment rate have to do with anything? Let's ask our friends at Business Week...

The unemployment rate is now up 1.4 percentage points from a year ago. That's comparable with its upward moves in the two previous recessions, and it is sure to rise even higher in coming months, depressing income growth and cutting further into demand for homes, cars, and other items. Job losses will also push more mortgages into delinquency, creating more foreclosures and more downward pressure on home prices. In the second quarter, when the jobless rate had risen to only 5.5%, the share of mortgages beginning the foreclosure process posted the largest jump on record, rising to a high of 1.19%, from 0.99% in the first quarter (chart).

What do you have to say about that now, smart guy?

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » September 15, 2008, 5:55 pm

Sylvus wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:I'm interested in why you thought the thread was fitting of a smart ass comment about the economy? The reason I'm curious is the only person here with first hand knowledge of the events of what lead up to this happening seems to feel that it was due to poor leadership, which has nothing to do with whatever shape our economy is in.
I'm interested in what fucking planet you live on.

The Dow is down over 500 points, in its 6th biggest point drop ever and the biggest since 9/11. Lehman's bankruptcy is the biggest in history.

CNN has some choice words on the situation...
Still, some analysts said that the stock selloff could have been worse, considering the depth of the problems.

"You have to throw out the history books because there's really nothing to compare this to," said Jim Dunigan, chief investment officer at PNC Advisors.

Art Hogan, chief market strategist for Jefferies & Co., said the magnitude of the financial industry fallout is unprecedented, and could only be compared to the Great Depression of the 1930s or the railroad bankruptcies of the 1800s.

"We've never witnessed this before," said Hogan. "There's no road map for this."

The developments for the three companies cemented for investors that the credit crisis is far from over, six months after the near-collapse and government rescue of Bear Stearns.

"The landscape has changed and a lot of the major players who were are no more, so of course people are panicked," said Stephen Leeb, president at Leeb Capital Management.

"But it's not the end of capitalism," he said. "This may usher in something worse than what we've seen in terms of the economy, but the companies left standing at the end of this will be OK."
Fox News is much more optimistic...
There will be an unseen participant at the meeting of the Federal Open Market Committee when it convenes Tuesday at 8:30 a.m.--an 800-pound gorilla named Lehman Brothers (LEH: 0.21, -3.44, -94.24%).

And, while the Wall Street chaos may dominate the discussion, the FOMC still has fundamentals with which it must deal: a drastic slowdown in the economy--exacerbated since it met last on Aug. 5--and on-again, off-again inflation threats. The ongoing credit and liquidity crunch may though overwhelm the numbers and force the FOMC into yet another rate cut.

Leading up to August meeting, the economic data while far from positive, was nowhere near as negative as its been in the last couple of weeks--and then, the FOMC did not have to deal with turmoil in the financial markets.
I'm sure that it's still very easy to get a tech job in Minnesota though, which is the true gauge of how things are going. Hold on a second, I've got the Bureau of Labor Statistics on the line...
The number of unemployed persons rose by 592,000 to 9.4 million in August, and the unemployment rate increased by 0.4 percentage point to 6.1 percent. Over the past 12 months, the number of unemployed persons has increased by 2.2 million and the unemployment rate has risen by 1.4 percentage points, with most of the increase occurring over the past 4 months. (See table A-1.)
What does the unemployment rate have to do with anything? Let's ask our friends at Business Week...
The unemployment rate is now up 1.4 percentage points from a year ago. That's comparable with its upward moves in the two previous recessions, and it is sure to rise even higher in coming months, depressing income growth and cutting further into demand for homes, cars, and other items. Job losses will also push more mortgages into delinquency, creating more foreclosures and more downward pressure on home prices. In the second quarter, when the jobless rate had risen to only 5.5%, the share of mortgages beginning the foreclosure process posted the largest jump on record, rising to a high of 1.19%, from 0.99% in the first quarter (chart).
What do you have to say about that now, smart guy?

The point was this thread was about a company that is filing bankruptcy from what seems to be poor leadership. Excuses aside, if a good leader could have kept it afloat, then it was a leadership issue. Period.

You got on a "economy" soapbox where I felt it had NOTHING to do with the topic at hand (because it doesn't.)

Reality is, a lot of the "issues" with the economy are directly related to peoples perception, and yours, along with many others here, is so fucked I don't even see any reason to take any time out of my life to give you any thought out reasons, let alone any articles/whatever to support my reasons.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » September 15, 2008, 6:02 pm

So you take the opposite stance and not bother to find out why?

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » September 15, 2008, 6:04 pm

Canelek wrote:So you take the opposite stance and not bother to find out why?

I didn't say that. I just don't feel that it's worth my time to explain myself and put together a well thought out rebuttal on this website. In the few instances I have done so, it's either been completely ignored or responded to with the usual ignorant one liner bullshit.

Post by **Sylvus** » September 15, 2008, 6:06 pm

Funkmasterr wrote:The point was this thread was about a company that is filing bankruptcy from what seems to be poor leadership. Excuses aside, if a good leader could have kept it afloat, then it was a leadership issue. Period.

You got on a "economy" soapbox where I felt it had NOTHING to do with the topic at hand (because it doesn't.)

With all due respect to Canelek, the brunt of that article was about Lehman Brothers, which he does not work for (iirc) and which just filed the biggest bankruptcy in history.

If you don't think this has anything to do with the economy - both being caused (at least in part) by and the effect that it's going to have on the economy - then you're truly too stupid for me to ever attempt to engage you in a discussion again.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » September 15, 2008, 6:08 pm

Sylvus wrote:
Funkmasterr wrote:The point was this thread was about a company that is filing bankruptcy from what seems to be poor leadership. Excuses aside, if a good leader could have kept it afloat, then it was a leadership issue. Period.

You got on a "economy" soapbox where I felt it had NOTHING to do with the topic at hand (because it doesn't.)
With all due respect to Canelek, the brunt of that article was about Lehman Brothers, which he does not work for (iirc) and which just filed the biggest bankruptcy in history.

If you don't think this has anything to do with the economy - both being caused (at least in part) by and the effect that it's going to have on the economy - then you're truly too stupid for me to ever attempt to engage you in a discussion again.

I never said anything about the effect it would have on the economy, and neither did you (until now).

Ashur · Post by **Ashur** » September 15, 2008, 6:21 pm

The Bear Stearns guys we're saying "Lehman Bros is next" the Monday after the $2/share selloff.

The sub-prime borrowing mess has managed to poison the entire Financial Services sector. Those players who managed to weather the bulk of the storm are eager to devour those who didn't (and in the end, eat their share of the poison pill they avoided or managed to survive in the first place) . In the end, we'll pull out of it with a lot fewer players.

Just like the Telecom crunch of the early 2000s.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » September 15, 2008, 6:45 pm

Keerect, Sylvus. The article was more focused (and rightly so) on Lehman Bros. I work for the other company mentioned. Not that the BOFA buyout was less shocking. In retrospect, I think Merrill got lucky. The stock has been plummeting since the subprime/CDO collapse.

I still need to see the Town Hall webcast, but didn't really want to listen to Thain's 'business as usual' speech. From talking with some colleagues it does seem like what happened to Lehman could easily have been us.

Point is, these collapses foreshadow a drastic change in how Wall Street works. Our economy is directly impacted by what comes and goes there.One does not see financial giants fall like this during an economic growth period.

Winnow · Post by **Winnow** » September 16, 2008, 1:09 am

LMRA's up 14% today!

It's the only green in my entire portfolio or watch lists...and that's because someone painted the tape the day before.

Ready for take off!

Bagar- · Post by **Bagar-** » September 16, 2008, 1:33 am

Funkmasterr wrote:
Canelek wrote:So you take the opposite stance and not bother to find out why?
I didn't say that. I just don't feel that it's worth my time to explain myself and put together a well thought out rebuttal on this website. In the few instances I have done so, it's either been completely ignored or responded to with the usual ignorant one liner bullshit.

How would you know?

You've never made a well thought out post before.

To imply that the economy doesn't have anything to do with the oldest lending bank in America going bankrupt is nothing short of fucking asanine though.

Aslanna · Post by **Aslanna** » September 16, 2008, 1:43 am

Assanine? Is that like Cat O' Nine? Kinky.

Bagar- · Post by **Bagar-** » September 16, 2008, 2:25 pm

You have no proof!

Post by **Sylvus** » September 16, 2008, 2:37 pm

Okay, you get one more try!

cadalano · Post by **cadalano** » September 16, 2008, 2:41 pm

oh my god..... that is an ass-shattering epic fail

Bagar- · Post by **Bagar-** » September 16, 2008, 2:42 pm

I'm going to shatter your ass.

Or something.

Funkmasterr · Post by **Funkmasterr** » September 16, 2008, 2:43 pm

Bagar- wrote:I'm going to shatter your ass.

Or something.

Totally not surprised to hear that out of your mouth.

Or ass.

Or something.

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » September 16, 2008, 5:14 pm

I think today was bizarro economics. Fed didn't wimp out and cut rates, surprising everyone...and stocks went up!?!?

Oil is down ~37% from its high, yet my gas prices are rising!?!?

Today I proclaim up is down and black is white.

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » September 16, 2008, 5:34 pm

Yup. Wait till AIG tanks!

Forthe · Post by **Forthe** » September 17, 2008, 10:33 am

Canelek wrote:Yup. Wait till AIG tanks!

With the AIG bailout, yesterday now makes sense.

USAdians calling Canada socialist can forever more STFU. We may have socialized medicine up here but you have a socialized economy down there.

miir · Post by **miir** » September 17, 2008, 11:38 am

Midnyte must be terrified!

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » September 17, 2008, 11:52 am

As a USAdian, I am upset by your socialist comments. Everyone knows that to be socialist, one needs to be ratified by a panel of Swedes.

OK. Off to work for the bank that cannot get its networks to talk to each other. (Anyone that has switched states with a B of A account can attest.)

Kluden · Post by **Kluden** » September 17, 2008, 7:12 pm

I have nothing to add, except the "hurray Blackrock fund" club member here as well! keeps the 401k from being utterly depressing!

Canelek · Post by **Canelek** » September 17, 2008, 8:42 pm

Fuck yeah man! Blackrock is the shit!

Truant · Post by **Truant** » September 17, 2008, 8:58 pm

Canelek wrote:Fuck yeah man! Blackrock is the shit!

You can make a wicked sword out of that stuff.

masteen · Post by **masteen** » September 17, 2008, 9:17 pm

Fairweather Pure wrote:My wife and I put 40k in a private hedge fund that has been dishing out fantastic returns for the past year, despite the ugly outlook of the economy. My 401k is doing very well too. My wife's lost about 15% though.

I put 5 dolla under my mattress, and it's generated an amazing 0% return!

Gzette · Post by **Gzette** » September 18, 2008, 7:50 pm

not with inflation. you're mattress fund is getting owned by inflation.