NYT refuses McCain Editorial

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NYT refuses McCain Editorial

Post by Fash »

John McCain wrote: In January 2007, when General David Petraeus took command in Iraq, he called the situation “hard” but not “hopeless.” Today, 18 months later, violence has fallen by up to 80% to the lowest levels in four years, and Sunni and Shiite terrorists are reeling from a string of defeats. The situation now is full of hope, but considerable hard work remains to consolidate our fragile gains.

Progress has been due primarily to an increase in the number of troops and a change in their strategy. I was an early advocate of the surge at a time when it had few supporters in Washington. Senator Barack Obama was an equally vocal opponent. "I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there,” he said on January 10, 2007. “In fact, I think it will do the reverse."

Now Senator Obama has been forced to acknowledge that “our troops have performed brilliantly in lowering the level of violence.” But he still denies that any political progress has resulted.

Perhaps he is unaware that the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad has recently certified that, as one news article put it, “Iraq has met all but three of 18 original benchmarks set by Congress last year to measure security, political and economic progress.” Even more heartening has been progress that’s not measured by the benchmarks. More than 90,000 Iraqis, many of them Sunnis who once fought against the government, have signed up as Sons of Iraq to fight against the terrorists. Nor do they measure Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki’s new-found willingness to crack down on Shiite extremists in Basra and Sadr City—actions that have done much to dispel suspicions of sectarianism.

The success of the surge has not changed Senator Obama’s determination to pull out all of our combat troops. All that has changed is his rationale. In a New York Times op-ed and a speech this week, he offered his “plan for Iraq” in advance of his first “fact finding” trip to that country in more than three years. It consisted of the same old proposal to pull all of our troops out within 16 months. In 2007 he wanted to withdraw because he thought the war was lost. If we had taken his advice, it would have been. Now he wants to withdraw because he thinks Iraqis no longer need our assistance.

To make this point, he mangles the evidence. He makes it sound as if Prime Minister Maliki has endorsed the Obama timetable, when all he has said is that he would like a plan for the eventual withdrawal of U.S. troops at some unspecified point in the future.

Senator Obama is also misleading on the Iraqi military's readiness. The Iraqi Army will be equipped and trained by the middle of next year, but this does not, as Senator Obama suggests, mean that they will then be ready to secure their country without a good deal of help. The Iraqi Air Force, for one, still lags behind, and no modern army can operate without air cover. The Iraqis are also still learning how to conduct planning, logistics, command and control, communications, and other complicated functions needed to support frontline troops.

No one favors a permanent U.S. presence, as Senator Obama charges. A partial withdrawal has already occurred with the departure of five “surge” brigades, and more withdrawals can take place as the security situation improves. As we draw down in Iraq, we can beef up our presence on other battlefields, such as Afghanistan, without fear of leaving a failed state behind. I have said that I expect to welcome home most of our troops from Iraq by the end of my first term in office, in 2013.

But I have also said that any draw-downs must be based on a realistic assessment of conditions on the ground, not on an artificial timetable crafted for domestic political reasons. This is the crux of my disagreement with Senator Obama.

Senator Obama has said that he would consult our commanders on the ground and Iraqi leaders, but he did no such thing before releasing his “plan for Iraq.” Perhaps that’s because he doesn’t want to hear what they have to say. During the course of eight visits to Iraq, I have heard many times from our troops what Major General Jeffrey Hammond, commander of coalition forces in Baghdad, recently said: that leaving based on a timetable would be “very dangerous.”

The danger is that extremists supported by Al Qaeda and Iran could stage a comeback, as they have in the past when we’ve had too few troops in Iraq. Senator Obama seems to have learned nothing from recent history. I find it ironic that he is emulating the worst mistake of the Bush administration by waving the “Mission Accomplished” banner prematurely.

I am also dismayed that he never talks about winning the war—only of ending it. But if we don’t win the war, our enemies will. A triumph for the terrorists would be a disaster for us. That is something I will not allow to happen as president. Instead I will continue implementing a proven counterinsurgency strategy not only in Iraq but also in Afghanistan with the goal of creating stable, secure, self-sustaining democratic allies.
I'm curious what kind of requirements they have for this type of thing... They printed Obamas editorial, but won't print McCains (in it's current form)... Seems a little shady, since I don't see any glaring problems with it.

edit:
Shipley, who is on vacation this week, explained his decision not to run the editorial.

'The Obama piece worked for me because it offered new information (it appeared before his speech); while Senator Obama discussed Senator McCain, he also went into detail about his own plans.'

Shipley continues: 'It would be terrific to have an article from Senator McCain that mirrors Senator Obama's piece. To that end, the article would have to articulate, in concrete terms, how Senator McCain defines victory in Iraq.'
Ehhh... and Obamas did? I think they're trying to hold McCain to a higher standard (justified or not)

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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

Post by Tristinn »

Once the media and people gave the neo-cons and far-right as much credence as they did, the US lost it's shit and it's been a steep slope down ever since.

Maybe it's about time we stopped listening to them once again?
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

Post by miir »

McCain seems a bit obsessed with attacking Obama in that piece. On every point.. in every paragraph he mentions him.
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

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Tristinn wrote:Once the media and people gave the neo-cons and far-right as much credence as they did, the US lost it's shit and it's been a steep slope down ever since.

Maybe it's about time we stopped listening to them once again?
Umm, major media has been run by liberals/dems for decades. It wasn't until foxnews came out that there was a tv station that slanted the opposite direction.
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

Post by Truant »

The requirement that he didn't meet (according to the fox news report I heard at work a bit ago) was a clear and defined time table for removal of troops in iraq.
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

He shouldn't have to have one either. There in lies the bias.
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

Post by Sylvus »

Unless, of course, that was a predetermined rule that McCain didn't follow.

Which would not make it bias at all.
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

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Sylvus wrote:Unless, of course, that was a predetermined rule that McCain didn't follow.

Which would not make it bias at all.
Ahh, but it would. The presumption that there must be one is in fact biased. It is a newspaper and must give equal representation to candidates on both sides, not just the side they agree with.
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

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Was there a pre-determined rule? Never heard of this....
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

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His timetable is 100 years or more. duh!
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Gzette wrote:His timetable is 100 years or more. duh!
Actually, that comment was made in jest. He stated 100 years instead of just saying he has none. To set a timetable prematurely without knowing exactl when the right time is, is retarded. When the time is right, we will leave. I only wish we had politicians with the balls to speak the truth.
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

Post by Spang »

Or maybe we need more journalists who don't ask stupid questions.
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

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Spang wrote:Or maybe we need more journalists who don't ask stupid questions.
Both.
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

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Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Sylvus wrote:Unless, of course, that was a predetermined rule that McCain didn't follow.

Which would not make it bias at all.
Ahh, but it would. The presumption that there must be one is in fact biased. It is a newspaper and must give equal representation to candidates on both sides, not just the side they agree with.
Horseshit. It's a newspaper and it has no obligation at all to print anything. You see bias, I see a value judgement made on lack of content.

Hell, you only have to take the "both sides" part of your comment to see what's wrong w/ politics in the US, but then to insist that "your side" has the right to free column inches regardless of what they want to fill them with just enhances your fail.
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

Post by Nick »

It probably refused to print McCain's article because it has a little more self respect than to be used as fucking toilet roll by anyone with a brain.
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Zaelath wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Sylvus wrote:Unless, of course, that was a predetermined rule that McCain didn't follow.

Which would not make it bias at all.
Ahh, but it would. The presumption that there must be one is in fact biased. It is a newspaper and must give equal representation to candidates on both sides, not just the side they agree with.
Horseshit. It's a newspaper and it has no obligation at all to print anything. You see bias, I see a value judgement made on lack of content.

Hell, you only have to take the "both sides" part of your comment to see what's wrong w/ politics in the US, but then to insist that "your side" has the right to free column inches regardless of what they want to fill them with just enhances your fail.

ROFL. Holy ignorance. Enjoy that. haha
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

Post by Zaelath »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Zaelath wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Sylvus wrote:Unless, of course, that was a predetermined rule that McCain didn't follow.

Which would not make it bias at all.
Ahh, but it would. The presumption that there must be one is in fact biased. It is a newspaper and must give equal representation to candidates on both sides, not just the side they agree with.
Horseshit. It's a newspaper and it has no obligation at all to print anything. You see bias, I see a value judgement made on lack of content.

Hell, you only have to take the "both sides" part of your comment to see what's wrong w/ politics in the US, but then to insist that "your side" has the right to free column inches regardless of what they want to fill them with just enhances your fail.

ROFL. Holy ignorance. Enjoy that. haha
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

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Obama is getting more press because he is (creating?) a more interesting story. McCain\RNC made this story even bigger with their countdown clocks and 'facts on the ground' rhetoric.

However, the media attention is a double-edged sword, Obama would not get a pass on all the gaffes McCain has made. If Obama had made the exact same statement as McCain's 'Iraq-Pakistan border' comment a couple of days ago he would be hit much harder by the press.
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

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Forthe wrote:Obama is getting more press because he is (creating?) a more interesting story. McCain\RNC made this story even bigger with their countdown clocks and 'facts on the ground' rhetoric.

However, the media attention is a double-edged sword, Obama would not get a pass on all the gaffes McCain has made. If Obama had made the exact same statement as McCain's 'Iraq-Pakistan border' comment a couple of days ago he would be hit much harder by the press.
Bullshit. He gets a pass on every gaff he makes.
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Obama Says "Uhh" 144 Times in Eleven Minutes during Press Conference

Barack Obama, the golden-tongued orator, is a totally different person when he cannot read a speech someone wrote for him from a teleprompter. Hot Air.com posted a link to a CNN video of Obama making a statement and answering questions. A sharp Hot Air.com commenter posted the following about the video:

I watched the whole 11:09. I don’t remember a thing he said. All I heard was uh, uh, uh, uh, and uh.

He talks for 4 minutes. I counted 55 uhs. Then he takes questions.

First answer: 10 uhs Second answer: 27 uhs Third answer: 16 uhs Fourth answer: 7 uhs Final answer: 29 uhs

144 uhs in 11 minutes. Articulate, Uh-bama!

Follow the link and you will see it is absolutely painful to listen to. The truth is, Obama is a total lightweight that is an empty suit. He does great in the stadium pep rally speech setting, but get him away from that where he must think on his feet, and the Obamamessiah just disappears. If John McCain said "uhh" 144 times in 11 minutes, the press corps would be saying he has Alzheimer's disease. But with Obama, nary a word about it. In time, Obama the lighweight, is going to reveal himself for all the world to see. We just have to hope it is BEFORE November 4 so the American people will not make a truly terrible mistake.

P.S. Obama referred to "President Maliki" of Iraq, when he is the "Prime Minister" of Iraq (5:40 mark of the video). Again, if John McCain did that it would be a week of stories about his "age."

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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

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On this Memorial Day, as our nation honors its unbroken line of fallen heroes — and I see many of them in the audience here today — our sense of patriotism is particularly strong.
One stump line sounds similar to John Edwards'

March 28, 2007

BY LYNN SWEET Sun-Times Columnist
WASHINGTON -- Sen. Barack Obama's presidential campaign, 46 days old on Tuesday, has run into some speed bumps, created because of a series of missteps magnified because he is under microscopic scrutiny.
It's too early to say whether the gaffes slow Obama's momentum -- or if they become barricades, extracting a more significant price for the Illinois Democrat's White House bid. They are getting noticed.

Consider the items that have been accumulating since Obama announced on Feb. 10:

• Marking the anniversary of the March 1965 "Bloody Sunday" in Selma, Ala., Obama, speaking at a church, said his parents got together "because of what happened in Selma." Obama was born in 1961.

• Obama told Larry King on CNN -- asked about that anti-Hillary Rodham Clinton YouTube ad, a doctored version of a spot created for Apple computers -- "We don't have the technical capacity to create something like that."

Obama did not know what he was talking about. Any professional media consultant can manipulate images on video. Turns out the creator -- unmasked last week as a political operative who worked for a firm overseeing the technical side of Obama's Web site -- made it at home on a Mac.

• Obama, asked if homosexuality was immoral, in the wake of comments by Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman Gen. Peter Pace, sidestepped the question. After pressure from gay groups, Obama issued a statement stating he did not agree with Pace "that homosexuality is immoral."


Cynicism is like terrorism?
• One of Obama's stump lines is that the biggest obstacle he fights is not any of his rivals, it is cynicism. He used a variation of it during a reception he hosted at a conference here sponsored by AIPAC, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee. Displaying a tin ear, Obama said that one of the enemies is not "just terrorists" or "just Hezbollah" or "just Hamas" -- "it's also cynicism."
• The Tribune dug this up: Obama, in his memoir, Dreams of My Father, writes of a story in Life magazine that influenced him -- about a black man trying to bleach his skin white. No such article could be found in Life or Ebony.


Insider or outsider?
• Another Obama stump line -- he said it again Tuesday morning to the Communications Workers of America here -- is that "I've been long enough in Washington to know that Washington needs to change." He is running against Washington yet his campaign is populated with political professionals who are Washington insiders.
• Obama's embrace of some rhetoric used by rival John Edwards is getting attention. Edwards, in a 2003 speech made for his first presidential run said, "I've spent enough time in Washington to know how much we need to change Washington."

Bill Burton, an Obama spokesman, said in reaction to the Obama stumbles: "If there are people looking for a candidate running to be the darling of the Washington insider crowd, this campaign is not for them. We are encouraged by the growing, unflinching support of Americans who believe we can transform our country by changing our politics."
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

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Midnyte is PISSED!
McCain's rights are being taken away!
We need to liberate the NYT, with no plan for exit!
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

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Bullshit. He gets a pass on every gaff he makes.
I call bull on your bull. He got called on gaffes he didn't even make with Rev Wright. And the "elitist" comments dominated cable news for a week if not more. McCain's insensitive and sometimes ignorant remarks generally show up as little blips on the media radar. Shit, all Obama has to do is get a pound from his wife and be called a terrorist. Wake up sir and smell the shit you're spewing.
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Gzette wrote:
Bullshit. He gets a pass on every gaff he makes.
I call bull on your bull. He got called on gaffes he didn't even make with Rev Wright. And the "elitist" comments dominated cable news for a week if not more. McCain's insensitive and sometimes ignorant remarks generally show up as little blips on the media radar. Shit, all Obama has to do is get a pound from his wife and be called a terrorist. Wake up sir and smell the shit you're spewing.
It is you who needs to wake up. The general media make excuses for his gaffes. That's how the gaffes are intoduced on their media outlets. Even when one of their own ran a satiric cartoon about Obama they trashed the NYC and defended Obama.
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

Post by Xatrei »

I'm sorry for you that you're really this much of a bitter little retard. Then again, you're several years younger than I am, and so your opinion is pretty irrelevant anyway.
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

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Xatrei wrote:I'm sorry for you that you're really this much of a bitter little retard. Then again, you're several years younger than I am, and so your opinion is pretty irrelevant anyway.
I see what you did there...
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

miir wrote:
Xatrei wrote:I'm sorry for you that you're really this much of a bitter little retard. Then again, you're several years younger than I am, and so your opinion is pretty irrelevant anyway.
I see what you did there...
Not really difficult to figure out. Typical non-response. I'm not surprised. VV'ers are the Champions of Deflection.
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

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I'm not deflecting at all. I am, however, mocking you, but you seem to be too stupid to realize it.
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

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It is you who needs to wake up. The general media make excuses for his gaffes. That's how the gaffes are intoduced on their media outlets. Even when one of their own ran a satiric cartoon about Obama they trashed the NYC and defended Obama.
Now I didn't see this as pro-Obama, I saw it more as pro-controversy. However you are 100 percent right that Obama gets more media coverage. Whether you credit that to a vast left-wing media conspiracy or not is up to you. I, who happen to be in the media, see it as a matter of that fact that he is far more compelling, so therefore more interesting, therefore drawing more viewers etc. I'm not saying this makes him a better candidate or a better politician, just more compelling. Especially when his opponent resembles the typical rank-and-file old, white republican good 'ole boy (much of that it McCain's own fault too with his repositioning and likely disingenious shift away from the middle).
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

Post by Truant »

Breaking News, Midnyte showing clear Obama bias in posting coverage.
Midnyte has posted about Obama over twice as much as he has McCain.
This is clearly unfair coverage as he should give equal post time to both candidates.
See these "fair and balanced" posts for yourself!
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

Post by Forthe »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Forthe wrote:Obama is getting more press because he is (creating?) a more interesting story. McCain\RNC made this story even bigger with their countdown clocks and 'facts on the ground' rhetoric.

However, the media attention is a double-edged sword, Obama would not get a pass on all the gaffes McCain has made. If Obama had made the exact same statement as McCain's 'Iraq-Pakistan border' comment a couple of days ago he would be hit much harder by the press.
Bullshit. He gets a pass on every gaff he makes.
Dude, he was hammered for 3-5 days because he used the word 'refine'.
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Forthe wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Forthe wrote:Obama is getting more press because he is (creating?) a more interesting story. McCain\RNC made this story even bigger with their countdown clocks and 'facts on the ground' rhetoric.

However, the media attention is a double-edged sword, Obama would not get a pass on all the gaffes McCain has made. If Obama had made the exact same statement as McCain's 'Iraq-Pakistan border' comment a couple of days ago he would be hit much harder by the press.
Bullshit. He gets a pass on every gaff he makes.
Dude, he was hammered for 3-5 days because he used the word 'refine'.
I have no idea what this refine thing is. Never heard of it. I also didn't see any message board dorks posting about it. Couldn't have been too bad. It doesn't matter anyway. Your right and I'm wrong. Obama is awesome and gets treated equally as all others. Unless of course it is somethign bad being said about him, then it is unfair. Just like when something good happens like oil barrel prices falling the day after Bush gives the word to start drilling for our own oil, it has no significance.
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

Post by Spang »

Burglarize a home in Texas, please.
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

Post by Forthe »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Forthe wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Forthe wrote:Obama is getting more press because he is (creating?) a more interesting story. McCain\RNC made this story even bigger with their countdown clocks and 'facts on the ground' rhetoric.

However, the media attention is a double-edged sword, Obama would not get a pass on all the gaffes McCain has made. If Obama had made the exact same statement as McCain's 'Iraq-Pakistan border' comment a couple of days ago he would be hit much harder by the press.
Bullshit. He gets a pass on every gaff he makes.
Dude, he was hammered for 3-5 days because he used the word 'refine'.
I have no idea what this refine thing is. Never heard of it. I also didn't see any message board dorks posting about it. Couldn't have been too bad. It doesn't matter anyway. Your right and I'm wrong. Obama is awesome and gets treated equally as all others. Unless of course it is somethign bad being said about him, then it is unfair. Just like when something good happens like oil barrel prices falling the day after Bush gives the word to start drilling for our own oil, it has no significance.
Google "obama refine". Were you vacationing in a hole that week? Couldn't have been watching Fox.

The media are ready to pounce on any Obama gaffe, they build up drama\suspense\story with the possibility of a gaffe. I've lost count of how many times I've heard\read how the current Obama trip is risky\dangerous, how a gaffe could end his campaign.
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

Post by Fash »

Well he did kind of refine, or scale back, his Iraq claims... It was a lot more confident and drastic (starts immediately, everyone out in 16 months) and now the Generals matter, the conditions matter, etc. There weren't any caveats or disclaimers back then.

I was happy about the flip-flop circus with Kerry since I never liked him, but I know that positions change... Be it from new information or other events, they evolve like everything else, sometimes drastically.

Info-tainment needs a smackdown for making the election process such a piece of shit.
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

Post by Nick »

Why should any self respecting newspaper give any space to a retard who thinks Iraq and Pakistan share a border?

Because people like Midnyte want them too? Since when did intelligent people have to pander to the lcd just because they demand it?

Get fucked.
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Fash wrote: Info-tainment needs a smackdown for making the election process such a piece of shit.
99% of the problem, right there.
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

Post by Xyun »

Nick wrote:Why should any self respecting newspaper give any space to a retard who thinks Iraq and Pakistan share a border?

Because people like Midnyte want them too? Since when did intelligent people have to pander to the lcd just because they demand it?

Get fucked.
But Iraq and Pakistan DO share a border! I should know because I was born inside that border. But now I live inside the border of Canada and Mexico.
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

Post by Toshira »

Nick wrote:Why should any self respecting newspaper give any space to a retard who thinks Iraq and Pakistan share a border?

Because people like Midnyte want them too? Since when did intelligent people have to pander to the lcd just because they demand it?

Get fucked.
Because a quality piece of journalism will attempt to hear more than one voice? Because of laws that exist that require equal exposure for candidates?
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

Post by Funkmasterr »

Toshira wrote:
Nick wrote:Why should any self respecting newspaper give any space to a retard who thinks Iraq and Pakistan share a border?

Because people like Midnyte want them too? Since when did intelligent people have to pander to the lcd just because they demand it?

Get fucked.
Because a quality piece of journalism will attempt to hear more than one voice? Because of laws that exist that require equal exposure for candidates?
It's not your fault that you don't know this, because you haven't been active here much for a while, but reasoning/discussing anything with him couldn't possibly be a bigger waste of your time.

You can thank me later.
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Re: NYT refuses McCain Editorial

Post by Nick »

Yes, if you're a moron it's probably not worth bothering to converse with me, as I would rather eat my own head than have to actually try and point out basic fucking reality to idiots like Funk and Mid every day.
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