Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

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Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Gzette »

A Harris County grand jury on Monday ended the rancorous seven-month debate over Pasadena resident Joe Horn's decision to gun down two illegal immigrant burglars in his front yard, concluding the act was a justifiable use of deadly force and not murder.

The grand jury heard two weeks of testimony from witnesses, including Horn. They likely also heard his breathless 911 call, during which the increasingly frustrated retiree ignored a dispatcher's pleas to stay inside and out of harm's way. The Nov. 14 call ended with the sound of Horn racking a shell into his 12-gauge shotgun's chamber followed by three gunshots that killed Colombians Diego Ortiz, 30, and Hernando Riascos Torres, 38.

Each man was shot in the back. They had taken about $2,000 in the burglary.

Horn's defense hinged on his assertion that he fired out of fear for his life, making the shooting justifiable under Texas law. The law also permits the use of deadly force to protect property under some circumstances.

District Attorney Ken Magidson said he couldn't comment on the grand jury's secret proceedings.

"In Texas, a person has a right to use deadly force in certain circumstances to protect property ... and that's basically what the grand jurors had to deal with," Magidson said.

After the announcement, Horn's attorney said his 62-year-old client was no vigilante.

"Joe was not some sort of wild cowboy," Tom Lambright said. "He was trying to help police. He was put in a situation where he didn't have any choice."

Lambright said Horn was "relieved" the investigation was over and he was cleared. "When I talked to him on the telephone I could hear it in his voice — not giddy, just relieved."

Others decried the decision as a miscarriage of justice.

Frank Ortiz, a member of the local League of United Latin American Citizens chapter, said he hopes federal authorities investigate the case further.

"That's amazing that they would no-bill him with so much evidence against him," Ortiz said. "It's amazing to me that anyone with a Hispanic surname cannot get justice. This was no more than a vigilante."

In his 911 call, Horn cited a newly enacted Texas law, the "castle doctrine," which authorizes the use of deadly force during a home invasion.

But Sen. Jeff Wentworth, who wrote the law, said it did not apply to Horn's case.


"It was not an issue in this case other than him saying incorrectly that he understood it to mean he could protect his neighbor's property," said Wentworth, R-San Antonio.

He said the castle doctrine simply didn't apply because, although the burglars were running across Horn's lawn, Horn's home wasn't under siege — his neighbor's home was.

"It comes from the saying 'A man's home is his castle,' " Wentworth said. "But this wasn't his castle."

Lambright said even though many people, including Horn's neighbors, have called him a hero, Horn doesn't believe he is.

The attorney said Torres, who was on parole for a drug conviction, and Diego Ortiz were near the front door when Horn stepped outside.

"They were attacking," Lambright said. "It scared him to death."
from: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5864151.html

Last half of article cut, because it was unimportant.

Also, it appears we may be allowed to get hip holsters, if our governor gets his way. Bang bang! I think this guy deserves some jail time. He just sounds like a stereotypically old, paranoid, racist white dude to me, which I confirmed with his picture.

This makes a man's castle quite a large gray area, and the "threat" necessary even grayer. I assume we'll be able to shoot any brown man within a decade for fear of possible future crimes within 20 miles of our homes. God bless Texas
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Sylvus »

That sounds totally reasonable. Those two were Illegals, and their lives were definitely worth a lot less than $2000. If anything, their families should have to reimburse Joe Horn for the 3 shotgun shells he had to use.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Fairweather Pure »

He's a good shot!
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Fash »

Excellent! The legal US Citizen isn't going to jail! The 2 illegal immigrant thieves are still dead!

Time to celebrate freedom and the American way!
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

It's not like he shot two innocent people. He did shoot two burglars and was in his right to do so.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

With everything that was REPORTED by the always liberal newspapers, it would appear this guy actually should have been sent up with at least a manslaughter conviction. I would like to see an unbiased report though of what actually happened with that shooting...as to where the guys were in relation to him and his door, etc etc.

I do have a hard time feeling any remorse that 2 felons that were here illegally and on top of that were commiting grand theft got smoked. I guess if they were not committing illegal acts then they would still be alive. Guess I pretty much feel that way if you are here illegally or not though.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote: I do have a hard time feeling any remorse that 2 felons that were here illegally and on top of that were commiting grand theft got smoked. I guess if they were not committing illegal acts then they would still be alive. Guess I pretty much feel that way if you are here illegally or not though.


Exactly.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Boogahz »

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:With everything that was REPORTED by the always liberal newspapers, it would appear this guy actually should have been sent up with at least a manslaughter conviction. I would like to see an unbiased report though of what actually happened with that shooting...as to where the guys were in relation to him and his door, etc etc.

I do have a hard time feeling any remorse that 2 felons that were here illegally and on top of that were commiting grand theft got smoked. I guess if they were not committing illegal acts then they would still be alive. Guess I pretty much feel that way if you are here illegally or not though.
If you can get past the moronic cock fight in the middle of the original thread that I linked, the comments of the plain clothes officer that witnessed the confrontation and shooting was quoted. You actually responded too!
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Sylvus »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Kilmoll the Sexy wrote: I do have a hard time feeling any remorse that 2 felons that were here illegally and on top of that were commiting grand theft got smoked. I guess if they were not committing illegal acts then they would still be alive. Guess I pretty much feel that way if you are here illegally or not though.


Exactly.
So it sounds like you guys support the death penalty for grand theft too. At what point do you draw the line? I tend to drive between 80-85 in a 70mph zone, should I slow that down before I wind up with an ass full of buckshot?
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Sylvus wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:
Kilmoll the Sexy wrote: I do have a hard time feeling any remorse that 2 felons that were here illegally and on top of that were commiting grand theft got smoked. I guess if they were not committing illegal acts then they would still be alive. Guess I pretty much feel that way if you are here illegally or not though.


Exactly.
So it sounds like you guys support the death penalty for grand theft too. At what point do you draw the line? I tend to drive between 80-85 in a 70mph zone, should I slow that down before I wind up with an ass full of buckshot?
Not at all. I do not support the death penalty for GTA. However, if a criminal gets shot during the act of a crime or even afterwards, I find it hard to feel compassion for them. They were burglarizing someone home and got shot by a good neighbor looking out for his own home and those around him. I personally wish it didn't come to that, but it did.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Ashur »

My neighbors are from Oregon. They would have chased after the men with pamphlets on how to turn those stolen goods into a reduced carbon footprint. ;)
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Fairweather Pure »

Sylvus wrote:So it sounds like you guys support the death penalty for grand theft too. At what point do you draw the line? I tend to drive between 80-85 in a 70mph zone, should I slow that down before I wind up with an ass full of buckshot?
My post on the previous thread sums up my feelings very well. I do not support the death penalty because it is state sanctioned murder. Having said that, when people wreck their vehicles going 100 mph and die a horrible death, I treat it as another wrongful, unfortunate ending to a stupid chain of events they made the poor choice in starting. Getting shot and killed is one of the many dangers involved in committing crimes. Criminals knowingfully take the risk, and I feel no remorse when they end up dead because of their own bad decisions.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Sylvus »

So let's just pick an item that is worth around $2000 in your house. Let's say a flat screen tv, or perhaps your computer. If someone broke into your house while you weren't home and took either of those items, you'd be totally fine with your neighbor killing them for it? Seriously? You wouldn't be like "Uh, gee Tom, my homeowner's insurance would have covered that, you could have just stayed in your house after you called the cops..."

I don't know, I guess I just don't give that much of a shit about possessions.

I don't really give a shit about criminals either, but I feel like this sets a dangerous precedent. A guy leaving his house, after he's called the cops and they told him not to confront the criminals, seems to be playing judge, jury and executioner. Per the eyewitness account on the other thread, he told someone to freeze and shot them when they didn't. It was all over in seconds, they didn't appear to be threatening him with any weapons or anything (from what I've skimmed), what if there had been some sort of mistake made?

Please don't think I'd be arguing anything in this thread if the Joe Horn had been sitting in his house with his gun watching all this go down, and shot them when they tried to come into his house. It's the fact that he was in no danger whatsoever that doesn't sit right with me.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Fairweather Pure »

I wouldn't "be fine with it", nor would I encourage it. But if it did happen, I would feel the criminal was at fault for starting the chain of events that led to their own death.

It's not about posessions at all. It's about taking responsibility for one's actions. The item of theft is inconsequential. In your given scenario, I would question the integrity of a criminal that would risk their life over a 2,000 dollar TV to begin with instead of the person that shot and killed them.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Xatrei »

Ultimately, this is a sad chain of events, and neither side is without blame. The criminals shouldn't have been doing what they were doing, but this guy was a little too much of a gung ho cowboy for everyone's good.

It sounds like this guy might have the law on his side. A corroborating witness that happens to be a cop doesn't hurt either. While, given the circumstances, this man may have had the legal right to use deadly force once he felt threatened by the burglars, I do have a real issue with the fact that this fellow - in defiance of the instructions given by the 911 dispatcher - chose to put himself into that position. While in his home and on the phone with the authorities, his life and his property do not appear to have been in imminent danger. He left the safety of his home to confront burglars on an adjacent property and created a situation where he felt compelled to use deadly force to protect himself. It seems to me that he yielded the moral high ground at that point. I also must question how severe was the perceived threat to this fellow when both victims were shot in the back. Before any of the super-righties try to say that I'd rather see criminals go unpunished, let me be perfectly clear. I want criminals to pay an appropriate price for their actions. We may disagree on how to punish or rehabilitate criminals, when appropriate, but I don't think that either of these people deserved to be gunned down over a theft.

I can relate to Sylvus' opinion on this. I own a lot of nice stuff. It's stuff that I'd rather not lose, but in the end, it's just stuff that can be replaced. I wouldn't personally feel justified using deadly force to defend any of it. My life, or that of a family member or friend is a much different story, though. Yet for that very reason, I wouldn't put myself in the situation where I might need to use deadly force to protect myself just to save some possessions. I certainly wouldn't be willing to do so for someone else's stuff.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Sylvus »

Fairweather Pure wrote:I wouldn't "be fine with it", nor would I encourage it. But if it did happen, I would feel the criminal was at fault for starting the chain of events that led to their own death.

It's not about posessions at all. It's about taking responsibility for one's actions. The item of theft is inconsequential. In your given scenario, I would question the integrity of a criminal that would risk their life over a 2,000 dollar TV to begin with instead of the person that shot and killed them.
I don't know, I would think that until this ruling a criminal could have a reasonable expectation that upon exiting a vacant house with ~$2000 of loot, they wouldn't be shot to death on the lawn. The risk might be some jail time, and perhaps a couple years in jail (I have no idea what the actual time one would face is) might make it a fair risk vs. reward for those criminals.

Then again, I'm an unabashed proponent of the punishment fitting the crime.
Xatrei wrote:I can relate to Sylvus' opinion on this. I own a lot of nice stuff. It's stuff that I'd rather not lose, but in the end, it's just stuff that can be replaced. I wouldn't personally feel justified using deadly force to defend any of it. My life, or that of a family member or friend is a much different story, though. Yet for that very reason, I wouldn't put myself in the situation where I might need to use deadly force to protect myself just to save some possessions. I certainly wouldn't be willing to do so for someone else's stuff.
Yeah, that.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Animalor »

I'll tell you one thing, if I had kids in that neighborhood, I'd tell em to steer clear of that dude's yard.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Fairweather Pure »

Too bad crime dosen't work that way. There are no rules. All bets are off when you start breaking into homes and businesses. I'm no criminal mastermind, but the moment "breaking and entering" hits my playbook, I would be thinking about people and guns. Then again, I'm not an illegal immigrant with criminal aspirations, so what do I know?

Even if these guys never considered the fact that they might get shot and killed during a robbery, I bet it will certianly serve as a reminder for the next criminal that if they break into a house in order to steal, they are indeed putting thier lives on the line. Every cloud has a silver lining I guess.

While the death penalty does not deter violent crime, I would like to see some studies on how scenerios like this affect crime in a given area.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Deward »

Death is a harsh punishment in this case but I feel the guy was in his right to shoot. The criminals were on his property and obviously had no fear if they were robbing a house in broad daylight. Chances are good that they would rob again. I have heard of many cases where robbers killed, injured or raped someone who they didn't expect to be home. What if those men had decided to come back and take care of witnesses later? I would not feel safe as long as those criminals were on the street. I would be glad to have this neighbor on my block even with my two young children. I would like to know that someone is keeping the street safe and I would bet that no one robs that neighborhood for a good long time.

Here in rural Wisconsin, you don't here about too many home invasions (if any). Every farmer has at least 5 guns around here. It would be suicide.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

OK....from the link Boog had:
In another twist, investigators revealed that a plainclothes Pasadena detective witnessed the Nov. 14 shootings after he pulled up in an unmarked car seconds before Horn fired three shots from his 12-gauge shotgun.

The men, who had just burglarized Horn's neighbor's house, faced him from seven to 10 feet away when they ignored his order to "not move"or they would be dead, police said.
That is definitive, end of story, your life is ending range. The commonly held self defense range that will hold up as the standard in court is 21 feet. If an individual is within 21 feet and is coming at you in a threatening manner and you are in fear of your life, that is game over. 100% justified shooting....just makes it a no-brainer when there is a cop standing there to cooberate the story.

If you do not believe in how fast you could get killed by someone that is 21 feet away, here is some food for though. The average person can close 21 feet in under 2 seconds. Even with a center mass hit in the heart and lungs, said person can live and function for 10-14 seconds barring a severing of the spine or the shock of the blast in that area causing a shock wave through tissue in close proximity that can paralyze a person. That is still way too much time to give someone with a knife or anything that can do damage to reach and harm you.

Take a paintball gun or airsoft out and try to hit someone center mass with them starting out 21 feet away before they can reach you....I did that scenario with my .45 on a rolling target at my concealed carry class. You will NOT be able to fire more than 3 shots from a semi-auto pistol in the time it takes for the target to reach you....and placing those in a kill zone is incredibly difficult under durress.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Kaldaur »

If the man had had children at home, would this be a different story? I'm sorry, but I find it hard to feel bad for two criminals who break into homes and steal other people's possessions. If they had done it to my house and my siblings had been in the living room, I would have gone for a knife or something else to try to stop them. The man was defending his home and his property. I would find it very difficult to sit and watch while the criminals strode away.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Sylvus »

The guy was defending his neighbor's home and property. No one was in any danger, particularly not the guy who witnessed it from his own house, called the police and then went out and shot the people.

That's the only problem I have with it. He left the complete or relative safety of his own house, with the authorities already having been notified, and engaged people leaving his neighbor's house.

There's no reason to do that unless you think you're Wyatt Earp or something.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Fairweather Pure »

I guess they picked the wrong house to steal from. They should come to your house!
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Aslanna »

Fairweather Pure wrote:I guess they picked the wrong house to steal from. They should come to your house!
Or more accurately his neighbor's house.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Image

Image
Police initially identified the dead men in Horn's yard as 38-year-old Miguel Antonio DeJesus and Diego Ortiz, 30, both of Houston of Afro Latino descent. However, DeJesus was actually an alias of Hernando Riascos Torres, 38.[3] They were carrying a sack with more than $2,000 cash and jewelry taken from the home. Both were convicted criminals from Colombia who had entered the country illegally, and were members of an organized burglary ring in Houston.[1] Police found a Puerto Rican identification card on Ortiz while Torres had three identification cards from Colombia, Puerto Rico, and the Dominican Republic, and had been previously sent to prison for dealing cocaine and was deported in 1999.[6]
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Fairweather Pure »

Those poor kids had their whole lives ahead of them.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Fairweather Pure wrote:Those poor kids HAD their whole lives ahead of them.
fixed
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Gzette »

why post mug shots?
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Kaldaur »

Were those taken after the shoot out? They're being remarkably cooperative for corpses and all!
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Gzette wrote:why post mug shots?
Why not? Just putting a face to it. Here's Joe Horns pic.

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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Spang »

He's a murderer and should be hanged.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

You are incorrect and should be enlightened.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Bubba Grizz »

If more people stood up and did this then there would be less home invasions I would guess. Granted there would be more dead criminals and more than likely more innocent dead. After a while though this kind of crime wouldn't be as high as it currently is I would bet.

As Deward said, we don't get too much of that up here. We only deal with psycho nut jobs like Dahmer and Gein.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Funkmasterr »

Bubba Grizz wrote:If more people stood up and did this then there would be less home invasions I would guess. Granted there would be more dead criminals and more than likely more innocent dead. After a while though this kind of crime wouldn't be as high as it currently is I would bet.

As Deward said, we don't get too much of that up here. We only deal with psycho nut jobs like Dahmer and Gein.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by *~*stragi*~* »

Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:It's not like he shot two innocent people. He did shoot two burglars and was in his right to do so.
he wasn't justified by any definition.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

*~*stragi*~* wrote:
Midnyte_Ragebringer wrote:It's not like he shot two innocent people. He did shoot two burglars and was in his right to do so.
he wasn't justified by any definition.
Actually the definition of the law says he did. I find it holds more weight than yours, sorry.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Gzette »

If they were white kids, he'd be in prison right now.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Wulfran »

This whole thing kinda smells wrong to me.

I'm with a lot of you in that I find it hard to shed too many (OK ANY) tears for 2 guys who were actively committing a crime. IMO their status as illegal aliens is irrelevant.

But I'm with Sylvus in terms of WTF is Mr Horn doing for a number of reasons:

1) OK Mr Horn was 7-10 feet from these guys but as a result of whose actions? Did he intercept them or did they come at him? Now this is going to get into the layout of the properties, in terms of how far Mr Horn had to move himself to get within that distance (were they that close just by him stepping out his door?).
2) Mr. Horn DIRECTLY disobeyed the direction of the 911 operator.
3) Both dead men were shot in the back.

I'm not going to criticize anyone for stepping on their porch when they see shit happening and getting involved/trying to intimidate people into compliance until the cops show to straighten it out, quite the contrary, as I think there is far too much apathy in our society. My issues are a) he created his own danger by disobeying authorities to confront these men and b) how much danger is anyone in from someone with their back to them, as both of these guys were shot in the back? Break and entering/theft/trespassing are not and should not be capital crimes.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Funkmasterr »

Wulfran wrote:This whole thing kinda smells wrong to me.

I'm with a lot of you in that I find it hard to shed too many (OK ANY) tears for 2 guys who were actively committing a crime. IMO their status as illegal aliens is irrelevant.

But I'm with Sylvus in terms of WTF is Mr Horn doing for a number of reasons:

1) OK Mr Horn was 7-10 feet from these guys but as a result of whose actions? Did he intercept them or did they come at him? Now this is going to get into the layout of the properties, in terms of how far Mr Horn had to move himself to get within that distance (were they that close just by him stepping out his door?).
2) Mr. Horn DIRECTLY disobeyed the direction of the 911 operator.
3) Both dead men were shot in the back.

I'm not going to criticize anyone for stepping on their porch when they see shit happening and getting involved/trying to intimidate people into compliance until the cops show to straighten it out, quite the contrary, as I think there is far too much apathy in our society. My issues are a) he created his own danger by disobeying authorities to confront these men and b) how much danger is anyone in from someone with their back to them, as both of these guys were shot in the back? Break and entering/theft/trespassing are not and should not be capital crimes.
It is entirely relevant. Our laws are in place to protect our citizens.

They were shot in the back because he told them not to move or he would. Sounds like they could have done something real simple to prevent this situation. The fact that the cop witnessed it (and basically said he was justified) just reinforces the guy acted within the law/s.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Kilmoll the Sexy »

According to the POLICE OFFICER that was there and WITNESSED the shooting, the 2 fine upstanding young gentlemen were coming at Horn on his property and refused to stop when he said "DO NOT MOVE OR I WILL KILL YOU". Now I do not know how much you know about castle doctrine or self defense laws in this country, but there is no possible way a jury is going to find a 60 year old man guilty when faced with 2 guys...one of which was enormous.

The 911 operator has zero authority and would be considered a civilian worker at the police department....and as such cannot give you any kind of order. He should have stayed in his house, but then again those 2 assholes would be alive if they had stayed deported.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Funkmasterr »

Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:According to the POLICE OFFICER that was there and WITNESSED the shooting, the 2 fine upstanding young gentlemen were coming at Horn on his property and refused to stop when he said "DO NOT MOVE OR I WILL KILL YOU". Now I do not know how much you know about castle doctrine or self defense laws in this country, but there is no possible way a jury is going to find a 60 year old man guilty when faced with 2 guys...one of which was enormous.

The 911 operator has zero authority and would be considered a civilian worker at the police department....and as such cannot give you any kind of order. He should have stayed in his house, but then again those 2 assholes would be alive if they had stayed deported.
yep, that's about it. I don't see how this is even a debatable issue, tbh.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

Funkmasterr wrote:
Kilmoll the Sexy wrote:According to the POLICE OFFICER that was there and WITNESSED the shooting, the 2 fine upstanding young gentlemen were coming at Horn on his property and refused to stop when he said "DO NOT MOVE OR I WILL KILL YOU". Now I do not know how much you know about castle doctrine or self defense laws in this country, but there is no possible way a jury is going to find a 60 year old man guilty when faced with 2 guys...one of which was enormous.

The 911 operator has zero authority and would be considered a civilian worker at the police department....and as such cannot give you any kind of order. He should have stayed in his house, but then again those 2 assholes would be alive if they had stayed deported.
yep, that's about it. I don't see how this is even a debatable issue, tbh.
It's debatable. Everything is debatable, but as this thread has shown even those who are usually against the likes of myself, Funk, Kill, etc. have agreed in part. Thankfully there are few issues in this world that everyone is in 100% agreement on. It would be a pretty dull world if that were so.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Xatrei »

I think the point that's getting lost on some participants in this thread is the fact that among those of us that have an issue with this situation (for the most part), the problem isn't that an old man defended himself against two criminals when he felt threatened. The primary issue that we seem to share is that rather than prudently avoiding a potentially deadly stand off, this old man unnecessarily provoked a confrontation in which he would potentially be compelled to use deadly force to defend himself. The guy had already done his duty by alerting the police to the situation, but he went well beyond that, channeling Harry Callahan and confronting the burglars. Beyond this, I still haven't seen a valid explanation for why both of the individuals were shot in the back. Someone explain to me just how these guys were causing this fellow to fear for his life while they were facing away from him.

As I stated before, he might have the law on his side, but he gave up the moral high ground, IMO, the moment he walked out of his house with that shotgun.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Midnyte_Ragebringer »

And because he did, the world is a better place without those two in it.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Boogahz »

Xatrei wrote:Beyond this, I still haven't seen a valid explanation for why both of the individuals were shot in the back. Someone explain to me just how these guys were causing this fellow to fear for his life while they were facing away from him.
Tell you what...put yourself in their shoes. Late at night...you just robbed a home...you're making your getaway and you see an old dude coming out of his house...you start to go at him...you hear/see a shotgun. What do you do? You start to angle away from him to continue your getaway.

This was backed up by the plain-clothes officer/witness statements.
The two burglary suspects killed by Pasadena homeowner Joe Horn were shot in the back after they ventured into his front yard, police disclosed Friday.

In another twist, investigators revealed that a plainclothes Pasadena detective witnessed the Nov. 14 shootings after he pulled up in an unmarked car seconds before Horn fired three shots from his 12-gauge shotgun.

The men, who had just burglarized Horn's neighbor's house, faced him from seven to 10 feet away when they ignored his order to "not move"or they would be dead, police said.

...

Corbett said the plainclothes detective, whose name has not been released, had parked in front of Horn's house in response to the 911 call. He saw the men between Horn's house and his neighbor's before they crossed into Horn's front yard.

Corbett believes neither Horn nor the men knew a police officer was present.

"It was over within seconds. The detective never had time to say anything before the shots were fired," Corbett said. "At first, the officer was assessing the situation. Then he was worried Horn might mistake him for the 'wheel man' (get-away driver). He ducked at one point."

When Horn confronted the suspects in his yard, he raised his shotgun to his shoulder, Corbett said. However the men ignored his order to freeze.

Corbett said one man ran toward Horn, but had angled away from him toward the street when he was shot in the back just before reaching the curb.

"The detective confirmed that this suspect was actually closer to Horn after he initiated his run than at the time when first confronted," said Corbett. "Horn said he felt in jeopardy."
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Lynks »

I wonder how people would react if the under cover cop got out of his car and was shot by Horn.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Spang »

The last time I checked, no one ever got sentenced to death for burglarizing a home. At least not in present day America. True, these guys would still be alive right now if they hadn't been doing bad things, that doesn't give anyone the right to start killing people that don't obey the law.

Those two colored guys stole $2,000 worth of crap. That old fuck stole two people's lives.

Joe Horn needs a lethal injection.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Fash »

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McGruff would be disappointed in you, Spang.
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Re: Texas says "yes!" to vigilante justice

Post by Spang »

McGruff never said, "SHOOT THE MOTHER FUCKERS!!!"
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